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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Enneagram instinctual subtype and intimacy

highlander

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What is your enneagram instinctual subtype and how do you describe intimacy in a relationship? That is what do you want in that area, what will you settle for and what is your ideal in that area?
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What is your enneagram instinctual subtype

I am a sx dom.

and how do you describe intimacy in a relationship?

Intimacy is closeness, it's having the trust, respect, and understanding and/or openness to share private parts of one's self that one doesn't share with everyone. It's being able to stand naked in front of someone else, honest in who and what you are, physically, emotionally, intellectually. It generally requires a reasonable amount of acceptance on the part of the other or it's not going to last, because I won't want to share anymore.

That is what do you want in that area

What do I want in that area? For friendships and family relationships, what I would like is to have some relationships where we have the mutual trust where we can share much of the emotional, personal, private details with each other with acceptance, kindness, lack of harsh judgment, and where we can help each other grow. Where we spend an adequate amount of time together sharing details of our lives and ourselves. For romantic relationships, I want all that, plus a physical and, for lack of a better word, spiritual, closeness in regards to sex and complete trust and kindness regarding emotional nakedness.

what will you settle for

As close as I can get. What else can one do? My answer to this is still a work in progress.

and what is your ideal in that area?

My ideal is what I described above, plus that spark, that connection that happens when looking into each others' eyes, that intense breathless magnetic pull that makes me want to consume and be consumed, the memory of which stays with me for the rest of my life, which draws me ever toward.
 

Tilt

Active member
Joined
Sep 18, 2015
Messages
2,584
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
3 sp/sx here. Ideally, mutual benefit, focus on growth, concise communication w/ purpose, quality time with spurts of alone time, consistency. I honestly don't mind abrasiveness and political incorrectness... (he could be crude and controversial) as long as he showed me consistency and care through actions.... I struggle a lot with people's wishy-washyness and emotional reactivity. So probably an NTJ w/o significant emotional issues or an NTP with some direction. 3,5, or 7 and probably not So-dom.
 

RadicalDoubt

Alongside Questionable Clarity
Joined
Jun 27, 2017
Messages
1,848
MBTI Type
TiSi
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What is your enneagram instinctual subtype
I am most likely a sp/so, or at least that's what I've typed for the last 5 years. 6w5 as well if you find that helpful for context.
how do you describe intimacy in a relationship?
I define the intimacy of my relationships (assuming you're talking generally and not exclusive to romantic) by the level of mutual comfort me and the other person have with one another and the amount of information/knowledge we both are willing to share to one another or have about each other. In the "most intamate" relationship by my own definition, I should be capable of sharing all facets of myself with the other person without fear and they should be able to do the same. The amount of time it takes me to become drained by interacting with such a person should be extensively long, or at least considerably longer than less intamate relationships. I genuinely want to interact with this person and am genuinely interested in them as a whole rather than just forcing myself to interact for the sake of being healthy (because socializing is healthy).

That is what do you want in that area, what will you settle for and what is your ideal in that area?
I mean, talking about ideal, in addition to above, communication is a big one. Also knowing when a person wants and needs space is a big one in an intamate relationship, an intimate relationship can not be clingy to me. Additionally, being that'd id probably genuinely gain energy from being around someone Im intamate with, it'd be cool if they were adventurous and willing to actually do things (ie. Travel, eat interesting food), although I'm most willing to bend here because most people are far more picky than myself. I'm willing to bend a lot for relationships in general just because I am in a severe lack of them. I'm more willing to bend in other relationships if I have at least one that satisfies the level of intamacy that I require to maintain personal satisfaction, but I'd probably not consider those other relationships to be super "intamate."
 

Maou

Mythos
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
6,117
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Sp dom

Ah, intimacy is something I actually avoid and desire at the same time. The hedgehog dilemma kinda deal. I would desire complete understanding with someone, as well as accepting each other's flaws. Mostly connections of the metaphysical variety, than physical intimacy.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
What is your enneagram instinctual subtype?
My enneagram is 538 / 539 (likely 538). I'm either sp or soc dom, both are equally likely depending on what kind of source you're reading. According to most stacking descriptions, I'd be so/sp, but according to the theory that your 'stronger' IV is the second one which is used to support the first, I'd be sp/so.

How do you describe intimacy in a relationship?
I'm a bit blind (haha) in terms of intimacy. It's less about being afraid of it or rejecting it than me legitimately not noticing. Imagine a really socially awkward introvert missing social cues, it's something like that. I miss the 'cues', apparently. When I hear intimacy I think the common (?) image of what intimacy is, what first comes to mind is something more to sensuality and bodily pleasure than emotional intimacy or chemistry.

That is what do you want in that area, what will you settle for and what is your ideal in that area?
I pretty much flit here and there. I'm very content with a very low baseline of 'sx' brand of intimacy. If anything I often feel most people are too entitled, intrusive, and imposing, while they think I am too cold, distant, impersonal, and accidentally neglectful (in others' eyes, anyway). I mostly want whoever it is (sx or not) to leave me in my sp castle and not barge in. That'd be perfect. I barely have desires of 'please divulge to me more' or ... whatever sx is.

It's mostly me pushing others away, I'm a very hands-off partner. Basically to me, people in general are already so clingy that I needn't expend any energy to increase the amount of intimacy I already get.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,053
MBTI Type
NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Sexual first. I find the question somewhat interesting, because I am taking a class with Russ Hudson, and he basically just said that intimacy per se is a "heart" feeling and not actually related to the sexual (or any) instinct--sexual itself being more about "sexual energy".

I am actually inclined to agree. Being the person I am, I don't personally have much mental energy to spare trying to suss out an "ideal" relationship. It seems to me that this might have more to do with core enneagram type and other things (like cultural ideals) than instinctual stacking. I'm at a stage in my life where I simply want everyone to go the fuck away so I can sit on my rocking chair, watching the lines form on my face and continuing with the inner work. Only special people get close, and I don't think there are any in the real world.

And that's about it.
 

highlander

Administrator
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Messages
26,562
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
6w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Sexual first. I find the question somewhat interesting, because I am taking a class with Russ Hudson, and he basically just said that intimacy per se is a "heart" feeling and not actually related to the sexual (or any) instinct--sexual itself being more about "sexual energy".

I am actually inclined to agree. Being the person I am, I don't personally have much mental energy to spare trying to suss out an "ideal" relationship. It seems to me that this might have more to do with core enneagram type and other things (like cultural ideals) than instinctual stacking. I'm at a stage in my life where I simply want everyone to go the fuck away so I can sit on my rocking chair, watching the lines form on my face and continuing with the inner work. Only special people get close, and I don't think there are any in the real world.

And that's about it.

Interesting . I would define it more like [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] . Sx isn't about sex per se, but I do think it is about a need for deep connection . At least that is how I understood it .
 

Luminous

༻✧✧༺
Joined
Oct 25, 2017
Messages
10,235
MBTI Type
Iᑎᖴᑭ
Enneagram
952
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Sexual first. I find the question somewhat interesting, because I am taking a class with Russ Hudson, and he basically just said that intimacy per se is a "heart" feeling and not actually related to the sexual (or any) instinct--sexual itself being more about "sexual energy".

I am actually inclined to agree. Being the person I am, I don't personally have much mental energy to spare trying to suss out an "ideal" relationship. It seems to me that this might have more to do with core enneagram type and other things (like cultural ideals) than instinctual stacking. I'm at a stage in my life where I simply want everyone to go the fuck away so I can sit on my rocking chair, watching the lines form on my face and continuing with the inner work. Only special people get close, and I don't think there are any in the real world.

And that's about it.

Is it like the description on this site? In the Raw: Enneagram Instinctual Variants and Subtype Stackings (2008 Riso/Hudson Training Notes & Discussion) – by ~lee~ | | The RunningFather Blog

Also, does he define intimacy? Really, I think it could apply to all the variants... sp - sharing home and physical resources, sx - sharing that energy, spark, and magnetic fascination (maybe we could call this spiritual resources?), so - sharing social resources like contacts, providing support in the form of traditional social constructs (like attending weddings and funerals). A certain amount of intimacy is going to be required to share resources, as long as they are limited.

Sexual – is NOT one-on-one. One-on-one—romance—is a heart issue. This is sometimes mistaken for an instinctual choice. In Nature, sexual reproduction helps to genetically diversify the species—conduces to survival. Russ calls this instinct “attraction.” It’s aggressive, competitive, single-minded, on display, the animal finds smells, stimulation. Use of energy is intensely creative, fiery, go-get-it, a life-and-death matter. E.g. salmon swimming upstream to mate and die.

We live in a sea of magnetism—attraction/repulsion—we don’t control this, or what we are drawn to. Most being-drawn doesn’t lead to the sexual act. We’re turned or not. It is what it is. You can’t fight mother nature. Attraction is smarter than social needs. Russ and Gayle gave the story of how someone has shown that arranged marriages conduce to a more stable society but one which is more susceptible to being wiped out by epidemics. Attraction has an unconscious intelligence. (pheremones).

In relationship, there’s desire for endless engagement and fascination. One is captivated energetically by someone or something. Not after domestic simplicity. One can have the sexual instinct operating with friends—being in the heat. Stimulated, energized.

All instincts play into sexuality. Self-pres is the body-to-body part—cuddling, autonomic regulation, sensuality. Sexual—waves of energy—riding the waves, force between the people. Doesn’t need to be actively physical. Social—sharing of energy. Affection, bridge between the primal instinct and emotional life. In good sex, all three instincts combine—warmth (self-pres), energy (sexual), affection (social).

Interesting . I would define it more like [MENTION=35566]Luminous[/MENTION] . Sx isn't about sex per se, but I do think it is about a need for deep connection . At least that is how I understood it .

I think I should add to my answer that for romantic relationships, I am not going to feel fulfilled, and really can't even see myself entering one, if I don't feel energetic sparks beforehand. And even with other relationships, the more sparks, the better-the more that relationship is going to get my attention and be important to me.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
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NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Is it like the description on this site? In the Raw: Enneagram Instinctual Variants and Subtype Stackings (2008 Riso/Hudson Training Notes & Discussion) – by ~lee~ | | The RunningFather Blog

Also, does he define intimacy? Really, I think it could apply to all the variants... sp - sharing home and physical resources, sx - sharing that energy, spark, and magnetic fascination (maybe we could call this spiritual resources?), so - sharing social resources like contacts, providing support in the form of traditional social constructs (like attending weddings and funerals). A certain amount of intimacy is going to be required to share resources, as long as they are limited
Yes, it's exactly what he said in that link, except in about 3 hours' worth of depth. He never defined intimacy per se, but he did caution against defining the sx-instinct as "intimate" or "one-to-one", saying that those concepts are independent of instinctual stackings. He seems to think that much of sx isn't properly defined and overlaps with social, and also tends to feed people's narcissism. If you've read my critiques of sx in the past, you know what he was angling at.

I should probably listen to the course again and take further notes to share. The basic premise is already out there on the internet, but the course itself includes practices and detailed information. In my opinion, his work has the ring of truth and cuts through much of the confusion people have about the instincts. I also took a course with Katherine and felt like Russ's was superior--but that's a topic for another thread.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
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583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Also, does he define intimacy? Really, I think it could apply to all the variants... sp - sharing home and physical resources, sx - sharing that energy, spark, and magnetic fascination (maybe we could call this spiritual resources?), so - sharing social resources like contacts, providing support in the form of traditional social constructs (like attending weddings and funerals). A certain amount of intimacy is going to be required to share resources, as long as they are limited.

THIS. The more I care about someone the more I hand these things out like flies.
I used to think I hated networking (well in the business sense I guess) till I realized that if I care about someone I basically share my friends and resources with them (kind of networking in a sense?). People who are sp or soc blind miss them (different love language I suppose) and call me cold.

To expand upon it I basically get interested in their influences, I want to get to know their friends and family, their networks, I will also show them mine. I will want to include them in my activities, I would also want to get to know their activities even if it was outside my normal interests. Kind of 'wanting to get to know their territory' so to speak, just not an sx one . . . ?
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
What is your enneagram instinctual subtype and how do you describe intimacy in a relationship? That is what do you want in that area, what will you settle for and what is your ideal in that area?

I am pretty sure I am sp/sx.

Regarding intimacy, maybe similar to Tsaravich's statement, I may have all but washed my hands of it in a romantic context. I just don't even see it as possible/happening anymore.

What I WANT in that area? Both someone I can call a companion and friend, with similar interests and acceptance of one another and enough common ground to be able to share thoughts and with enough stuff to talk about and enough alignment to want to and be able to share time and interests, AND also chemistry/physical attraction /the romantic lure. Both in one person? Eh, at this point, I really don't see it.

What will I settle for? Apparently nothing. :dry:

-------------------------

My treasured handful of friends are those I feel I can and do have a deeper relationship with. I realize this is all highly individual and my idea of 'deep' isn't necessarily going to align with anyone elses, but that doesn't matter to me. These are folks I feel I can truly be myself with and they accept/know all elements of me -- and I feel I have many sides/layers, so this says a lot. In contrast, I in the past year or so have been 'trying' to have a few more what I consider to be superficial friendships, simply in the name of not being by myself all of the time, as I only see my two good friends once every month or two, and three others I don't even see more than every year or three. Regarding these 'lighter' friendships (ie I can't in good conscience call them 'good friends' because I just don't see myself having enough 'layers' of myself that coincide with them ) -- not that I dislike them or don't value what they offer or etc, it's just that the dynamic is such that I'm not sure it'll ever be like it is with my closest friends. No fault of theirs, or I don't think mine... it's just a different feel. :shrug: So I guess when it comes to friends I have recently tried to selectively 'settle' a bit more; but this is only a few people. :laugh: I still don't have any interest in joining a club, organization, sports group, etc.
 

LucieCat

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
665
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I'm an Sp-dom. I'm not really sure how it impacts my relationships persay, but I find that I'm more driven to distance myself from and/or completely cut off people I see as jeopardizing my personal safety and well-being in some way (or that of the people I care about). At least that's a tendency I notice in myself. I do not see most people as toxic enough to warrant this treatment though.

My understanding of Sx is that it deals more with intimacy and a deep connection than sex. Obviously, sex is a form and expression of intimacy, but you can still have intimate bonds with people without engaging in a sexual relationship.
 

Venus Rose

New member
Joined
Jul 8, 2016
Messages
324
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
What is your enneagram instinctual subtype and how do you describe intimacy in a relationship? That is what do you want in that area, what will you settle for and what is your ideal in that area?
sxso
Erm, hard to put into words. It's like denuding that's not that just literal or physical per se, but mental, emotional, enlivening of that chemistry, feeling like you can let go and be yourself and he will just as much into you as he was in the beginning (ideally), being able to show ugly or even "boring" parts so to speak and nothing is boring to him, he wants to know every bit of you...all of this will lead to happiness and contentment for the sx dom very much so. Like I have finally lived my life. Otherwise something is seriously missing.
if only I could find that some day...
I don't know if I could settle for anything less, because anything else would just not be "it" and that wouldn't mean very much.
 
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