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  1. #1
    Inactive For A Bit RadicalDoubt's Avatar
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    Default IV Ordering and The Environment

    There's been various discussion about why a person's instinctual variants end up ordered the way they are. Some suggest that your first instinct is an area in your environment that was neglected and your last an area that was overdone... Others suggest the exact opposite. It has been proposed that it is unlikely you'll share the same blindspot as your parents or even that iv has little to do with environment.

    So... Thoughts?

    Why do you think you ended up with the stacking you have? Or even, why do you think others might have ended up with the stacking they have? Even family statistics could be helpful?
    - sp/so - INTP -
    “My deplorable mania for analysis exhausts me. I doubt everything, even my doubt.” Gustave Flaubert


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  2. #2
    alchemist Legion's Avatar
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    I doubt it's environment related, it's probably set from birth.
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  3. #3
    Devour Sung Jin-Woo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalDoubt View Post
    There's been various discussion about why a person's instinctual variants end up ordered the way they are. Some suggest that your first instinct is an area in your environment that was neglected and your last an area that was overdone... Others suggest the exact opposite. It has been proposed that it is unlikely you'll share the same blindspot as your parents or even that iv has little to do with environment.

    So... Thoughts?

    Why do you think you ended up with the stacking you have? Or even, why do you think others might have ended up with the stacking they have? Even family statistics could be helpful?
    Extremely interesting, I can see it for both my blind and my main instinct. (sp/so/sx)

    I had a pretty shitty childhood. Early in my life, I was ignored by everyone in my family, and was just kinda there. I spent a lot of time outside. I wasn't concerned too much with survival (having food, a place to sleep). As my life gradually got worse and abusive, I was determined to survive on my own to escape my shitty life. There were a few times where I was gonna give up and go live in the woods like a wild animal, and I was very close to that many times. I saw no value in relying on humans for anything. I think my upbringing can explain why I am sp first. It also can explain why I am sx blind, because my parents severely neglected intimacy and attention with me...while also making a lot of inappropriate sexual jokes, and other inappropriate things.
    “That's the problem with drinking, I thought, as I poured myself a drink. If something bad happens you drink in an attempt to forget; if something good happens you drink in order to celebrate; and if nothing happens you drink to make something happen.”


    ― Charles Bukowski

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  4. #4
    セイデンキ Earl Grey's Avatar
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    My parents are both sp dom. (Almost) all of us have different Ennea cores though so interestingly, we manifested the instinct in different ways.

    That being said, sp was definitely not neglected in my family. My mom was very sp of the most stereotypical kind, if I compared myself to her and if she was the definition of sp I might have considered myself sp-second. Personally, I don't think nurture had much to do with it, because while we're all sp doms we all manifested it differently and even argued on what to be sp about and how. I also always had my own preferences I stuck to no matter what kind of specific sp preferences or methods my mother tried to pass on to me.

    To elaborate, she was likely either E6 (CP) or 8 core, and she was typical- expansive, voracious, go-getter and very high activity in expanding her security, would shove people aside if it meant more resources for her. Extremely, ridiculously anal about environment, health, finances, sometimes to a seemingly paranoid degree.

    My dad & I, both E5 cores, were similar yet in some aspects entirely different- we both favoured withdrawing, denying needs, and minimizing- but he went all the way. Eg; he went vegetarian and barely bought new clothes, and glorified a 'spiritual life' of simplicity and non-attachment, something unthinkable for my mom (not as unthinkable for me, but I definitely cannot glorify such an impractical lifestyle and would not do it if I had resources).

    My brother #1, E9 core, was also extremely minimizing and even self-neglecting but clung tight to things he did have that would give him security- very non-confrontational for the sake of maintaining his perceived peace / autonomy- his is not as obvious as the rest but if you paid attention, you'd realize that his attention goes a lot to maintaining and protecting say, his personal space, his belongings, his autonomy- just, by withdrawing instead of by confronting. For example, my mother would press and get aggressive to establish dominance, while my brother would build rapport so that his space would not be intruded upon.

    Personally, even as sp-dom myself, I disagree with the methods of all them three (my father, despite similar cores, was still also too extreme for me).

    Mother - sp/so
    Father - sp/sx
    Me - sp/so
    Brother #1 - sp/sx
    Brother #2 - so/?

  5. #5
    Give me a fourth dot. The Tsarevich's Avatar
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    The current thinking is that our instincts are either inborn for some biological reason, or else tack up quickly after birth according to some innate program, for unknown reasons.

    I personally can't think of any reason why I should have the instinctual order I have. There was no defining moment in my youth or early childhood. I don't remember being a baby obviously, but I haven't heard of many traumatic instances from my family. There was one time when my father utterly neglected me for about 12 hours because he was too busy working, but you'd think that would give me self-pres issues if anything.

    My mother was sp/sx
    My father was sx/soc
    I'm sx, and I'm going to share a blindspot with one of them
    I was raised apart from my father after the age of 3, so sx wasn't really consciously learned

    My stepfather is soc/sp
    My (half)sister is sp/soc

    Hell if I know.
    *Need enneagram questionnaire?
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...ml#post2218641
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Venus Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalDoubt View Post
    There's been various discussion about why a person's instinctual variants end up ordered the way they are. Some suggest that your first instinct is an area in your environment that was neglected and your last an area that was overdone... Others suggest the exact opposite. It has been proposed that it is unlikely you'll share the same blindspot as your parents or even that iv has little to do with environment.

    So... Thoughts?

    Why do you think you ended up with the stacking you have? Or even, why do you think others might have ended up with the stacking they have? Even family statistics could be helpful?
    Hmm yeah, idk. From what I have seen of Katherine Fauvre's videos on instincts, she believes that we are "born with it." And of course, additional life circumstances and/or traumas would impact what instinct(s) become "neurotic."

    Also, one interesting side-note is that everyone in my family is SP first, while that is the blindspot for me.
    EII | INFP
    4w5-9w1-6w5 sx/so

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