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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Nice things about being sp-first / sx-last?

EJCC

The Devil of TypoC
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
19,129
MBTI Type
ESTJ
Enneagram
1w9
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Anyone have suggestions for ways to see sp-first and sx-last as strengths and not weaknesses?

Only recently learned my own correct type (sp/so) and am trying to find a way to use that information to unpack and resolve a lot of things about sx-lastness and sp-firstness, and how they manifest in myself, that I deeply hate - things that I never wanted to be, but apparently am. So that's the headspace this question is coming from.

To pre-empt the question: I've done the cursory Googling, and everything I've been learning about my type is negative. Especially with regard to being sp-first. I'd like to turn that around if possible to save myself (and others?) from being unfairly discriminatory.

Thanks in advance.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I envy sp-doms for what I can only describe as their strength, inner and outer. By this I mean that I associate the instinct with a solid vibe that comes across easily to others, healthy bluntness, and a natural sense of boundaries (although like all instincts it is possible for someone to turn away from their natural tendency due to other pressures, but rediscover it later). It’s a physical sense of self-respect, and just like mental and emotional self-respect, it lends a shitload of resources that are applicable outside oneself to do good.

There’s a scary and vulnerable side of self-care that involves facing fears, such as fear of saying no, the fear of mortality, and fear of standing up for oneself - and I associate sp with courage in this realm. I also associate strong Sp people with a unique capacity to be protectors and stand up for others, because it’s kind of like having to love yourself first in order to love others - the self-preserving instinct needs to be strong before one has the resources to extend that to other people. There is no need for it to be self-absorbed - in fact, it lends extra power to make the most direct sorts of contributions to the world.

That this would be stigmatized out of anything but jealousy blows my mind.
 

Earl Grey

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2017
Messages
4,910
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
583
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
This puts it very well for me (taken from oceanmoonshine, on E5 so/sp):

With the sexual instinct least developed, this subtype is in the position of having a strong pull towards understanding the workings of the world around them, without the emotional intensity of the sexual instinct setting up any distraction.

And I must agree, and I value this in myself. And to put it more simply and generally, being able to get what you value (as an sp dom) done without getting distracted by things you don't value (which happens to be sx)- where and how this would be a weakness, I do not understand.


There’s a scary and vulnerable side of self-care that involves facing fears, such as fear of saying no, the fear of mortality, and fear of standing up for oneself - and I associate sp with courage in this realm. I also associate strong Sp people with a unique capacity to be protectors and stand up for others, because it’s kind of like having to love yourself first in order to love others - the self-preserving instinct needs to be strong before one has the resources to extend that to other people. There is no need for it to be self-absorbed - in fact, it lends extra power to make the most direct sorts of contributions to the world.

This. I never thought of it as courage whatsoever, but I did recognize these traits in sp. And yes, I have no idea how on earth this would be stigmatized. Being sx-last, an sp first soc second naturally takes care of their surroundings and community and when healthier extends themselves in meaningful ways, making sure no one is left out. I notice that sp naturally looks at stability- it is our 'love language'- and our most meaningful one, and we can extend these things to who we care most similar to how Stell describes it here. More direct, tangible contributions.

It is because we go after security (of any kind, depending on enneatype) so much that we can extend that very same security to others. I am sure other types contribute their own share as well, but I do not see how sp's style would be in any way inferior, negative, or stigmatized.
 

Maou

Mythos
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
6,117
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Im sp/so and didnt even know there was stereotypes of it being the worse type LOL.

The courage thing makes perfect sense to me with what Stell said. I think the downside is, those events do not happen enough to make sp-doms stand out. Other types think we are no fun, boring, or too concerned with "trivial" things to understand that we need stability to properly cut loose. Its an sx dom world I swear xD
[MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] It sucks, but there really is hardly any sp/so variation explanations in enneagram. It always bothered me when researching my own type. I tgink its the result of it being very self contained.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Anyone have suggestions for ways to see sp-first and sx-last as strengths and not weaknesses?

Only recently learned my own correct type (sp/so) and am trying to find a way to use that information to unpack and resolve a lot of things about sx-lastness and sp-firstness, and how they manifest in myself, that I deeply hate - things that I never wanted to be, but apparently am. So that's the headspace this question is coming from.

To pre-empt the question: I've done the cursory Googling, and everything I've been learning about my type is negative. Especially with regard to being sp-first. I'd like to turn that around if possible to save myself (and others?) from being unfairly discriminatory.

Thanks in advance.

It's interesting that you are coming across more negative things about being sp-first in your research; I have certainly seen more negative things associated with sx last, but I hadn't noticed sp first as much.

My own sense of sp-first is more of a tendency to be solid in myself, and self reliant. With that comes a stability and maybe in a way more confidence in who I am - I am able to be Me without leaning on someone else for my sense of self or on others. Of course there are negatives to this, but I think it means others view me as being more solid, perhaps more independent (I think I am), and though I don't know it's tied to sp-dom, it might be - just today, a coworker said of me in response to something I said, 'just saying it like it is'. 'Keepin it real', I get too. Apparently many *don't* keep it real? haha. I believe there are ties to boundaries with this tendency; I do protect myself and my needs, and also address my own emotional issues, for the most part, and always have; and in many ways believe I'm the only one who really can; so this means I don't inherently 'expect' others to take care of me, or provide all of the support for me, or whatever. Much of it comes from within. Now again this is not all glorious and those who especially need to be needed will likely not be keen on this/how I am, but it also means I am not likely to become dependent on others in an emotionally or socially sucking way, if that makes sense. So I think that alone can be a positive. And with that, like [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION] said, IF I am healthy and etc etc, I'll have more to give and I don't 'need' as much, in terms of emotional support, etc. Also, I'd say I'm one who is not as likely to be 'used' or taken advantage of, or allow myself to be, and this is something that began when I was fairly young. I'll write more if I think of more.

p.s. I'm not at all assuming or saying that all of this applies to sp- first, as I imagine quite a bit is also associated with my having been raised to be self sufficient and having learned to handle a lot of the internal stuff on my own without having someone else to assist. Like everything it's prob. a combo of nature and nurture.
 

Galena

Silver and Lead
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
3,786
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
It's interesting that you are coming across more negative things about being sp-first in your research; I have certainly seen more negative things associated with sx last, but I hadn't noticed sp first as much.

My own sense of sp-first is more of a tendency to be solid in myself, and self reliant. With that comes a stability and maybe in a way more confidence in who I am - I am able to be Me without leaning on someone else for my sense of self or on others. Of course there are negatives to this, but I think it means others view me as being more solid, perhaps more independent (I think I am), and though I don't know it's tied to sp-dom, it might be - just today, a coworker said of me in response to something I said, 'just saying it like it is'. 'Keepin it real', I get too. Apparently many *don't* keep it real? haha. I believe there are ties to boundaries with this tendency; I do protect myself and my needs, and also address my own emotional issues, for the most part, and always have; and in many ways believe I'm the only one who really can; so this means I don't inherently 'expect' others to take care of me, or provide all of the support for me, or whatever. Much of it comes from within. Now again this is not all glorious and those who especially need to be needed will likely not be keen on this/how I am, but it also means I am not likely to become dependent on others in an emotionally or socially sucking way, if that makes sense. So I think that alone can be a positive. And with that, like [MENTION=17945]Stell[/MENTION] said, IF I am healthy and etc etc, I'll have more to give and I don't 'need' as much, in terms of emotional support, etc. Also, I'd say I'm one who is not as likely to be 'used' or taken advantage of, or allow myself to be, and this is something that began when I was fairly young. I'll write more if I think of more.

p.s. I'm not at all assuming or saying that all of this applies to sp- first, as I imagine quite a bit is also associated with my having been raised to be self sufficient and having learned to handle a lot of the internal stuff on my own without having someone else to assist. Like everything it's prob. a combo of nature and nurture.
^^^ Exactly what I meant, but stated the way I wish I could have.
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
^^^ Exactly what I meant, but stated the way I wish I could have.

I loved your description and thought it was great, but aww thanks :)
 

21%

You have a choice!
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
3,224
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
I never knew sp-first was a bad thing!

Couple of points:
- You're more okay with being alone, making you less needy compared to other types.
- You make an attempt (and often a good one) to get your life together and secure, which is something other types might struggle with.
- From the above two points, you're less likely to have to rely on other people, which lessens their burden of interacting with you. I mean in the sense that you're less likely to have a life-threatening emergency from lack of planning, and having your own safety net means other people don't have to step in and take care of you.

Of course, there are also drawbacks, but I think these are the main positives. In short, you know how to be safe.
 

LucieCat

New member
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
665
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
The way I see my combination of Sp first and Sx last is that I prioritize stability and security—of both myself and others. I perfer to get things done independently, and I always strive to be self-reliant.

Other factors probably also contribute, but I think this combination allows me to detach myself from extremely passionate immediate responses at times, which can lead to rash decisions. I'm a feeler in terms of MBTI, so I could be a lot better at this, but it's a quality I'm learning to refine.

I also have comparatively thick skin compared to most people. I'm not sure if this is an sp quality. But at the end of the day, if someone is rude or insults me, I often chalk it up as "Well, I don't like it, but if I don't let it impact me, it won't. There are a lot worse things that could happen." I've often said that I don't get offended. That's an exaggeration probably, but I really can't relate to the experience.

A downside is that I'm not sure how to respond to people who depend more on others. You could call them clingy or needy in a negative sense, but I don't think it's always inherently a negative quality. This is even more apparent when I'm the one being relied upon. I'm willing to try and support those close to me the best I can, but I am at times completely at a loss as to how to act. Especially if whatever is bothering the person is something that would not make a significant impact on me.
 

ceecee

Coolatta® Enjoyer
Joined
Apr 22, 2008
Messages
15,908
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
8w9
SP-first is the part of me that I embrace, even more than being an e8.

Self-sufficient
Self-disciplined
High level planning and organizing
No issues establishing boundaries and saying no.
No one would ever call me needy or clingy (this can also be an area of criticism when it moves to unhealthy levels but I'm better sharing my vulnerability)
If I tell you I'll be somewhere/do something, you can count on it.

I don't see this thread as being discriminatory. I guess I'm so accustomed to being critiqued on my enneagram specifics, it doesn't have much impact on me anymore.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
Anyone have suggestions for ways to see sp-first and sx-last as strengths and not weaknesses?

Only recently learned my own correct type (sp/so) and am trying to find a way to use that information to unpack and resolve a lot of things about sx-lastness and sp-firstness, and how they manifest in myself, that I deeply hate - things that I never wanted to be, but apparently am. So that's the headspace this question is coming from.

To pre-empt the question: I've done the cursory Googling, and everything I've been learning about my type is negative. Especially with regard to being sp-first. I'd like to turn that around if possible to save myself (and others?) from being unfairly discriminatory.

Thanks in advance.


Rule number one of having happy Sp first, Sx last life. Don't take others opinions too personally since you will pretty much always be the "party popper" and/or the voice of reason.:D


In general I agree with the posts of others.
 

Virtual ghost

Complex paradigm
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
19,769
On the other more serious side, basically wherever I show up I am creating order and stability. Therefore finding people who appreciate this is a smart way to go with this. For men this can even be good "leverage" in dating no matter how much some would want to trash this. On the other hand if someone will hold things together in a crisis that will probably be Sp/So or So/Sp, since they have a clear judgment in comparison to the most and to be honest I have always considered myself to be the "last line of defense". Especially since often I truly was.


I always got typed as Sp/So but I did some "experimenting" with So/Sp since Sp/So plus 5 sounded too introverted for me. While it is becoming completely obvious that I was thinking about myself in a wrong way, what is linked to private nature of Sp/So which quite often becomes my dominant personality trait.




From the flow thread.
sp/so - conserving, protecting, maintaining, preserving, supplying, repairing, sustaining, stewarding

In other words everything is doomed on the long run without this.
 

Snow as White

ƃuıǝǝs | seeing
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
471
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
embrace being sp-dom. i have sp-dom envy in your ability to be more self-contained with personal boundaries and disciplined for future financial security.

my bf is sp-dom and the only real negative i see is that he can go a bit TOO far in his sp world domination efforts.

bf: i really want to buy a new video game but it's $20.
me: ok, go do it?
bf: yeah but i could also invest that $20 and then I would have x$ in y time.
me: or you could have the game right now!
bf: i'll wait.

^ this plays out for about 6 months and then he will finally cave and get the item and just ooze giddiness for months at his splurge. meanwhile, in the same time frame i have been unable to resist buying packs of rainbow hued pens, fancy notebooks, makeup, etc.

as for sx last.. idk. i have such a love-hate being sx-dom. i remember reading that the dominant function is often the one you are unhealthy with, and so as an sx-first i can attest to the terrible destruction that can be wrought from misuse of its abilities.

so i guess embrace your dark side and create new light side reasons for why being sp/so makes you you.
 

notmyapples

New member
Joined
Oct 26, 2017
Messages
398
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
Most of the negative stuff around the internet about sx-blinds is written by sx-blinds who poeticize sx because they don't really understand it. The rest of it is from sp-blinds who cannot handle life and feel resentment towards sx-blinds for their ability to, y'know, naturally not suck at things.
 
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