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[sx] Sexual / Intimate First Support Group

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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[MENTION=18576]The Tsarevich[/MENTION] - Thank you for sharing such a personal story.

Btw, I got weirdly upset when I saw you changed your name. I've realized that I get attached (mentally) to people's names/avatars here and I don't like to learn the new ones because:
A. I'm not good at remembering names period.
B. It feels like I'm meeting someone new in a weird way, so there is like a re-bonding that needs to happen and that's not really my thing.

That probably doesn't make any sense but it's what I realized last night.

I understand that sometimes, actually. Sorry for that. I just felt like I was more of an imperious child with the emotional state roughly of Ivan the Terrible than I was a scrappy ronin. I'll prolly be a tsarevich for a long time.

But as the signature says, you can call me whatever. "Tsarevich Sanjuro". Like that.
 

Peter Deadpan

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I understand that sometimes, actually. Sorry for that. I just felt like I was more of an imperious child with the emotional state roughly of Ivan the Terrible than I was a scrappy ronin. I'll prolly be a tsarevich for a long time.

But as the signature says, you can call me whatever. "Tsarevich Sanjuro". Like that.

No apology necessary, I'm just thought spewing.
 

Luminous

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Gotcha.

OK, first I've known about being sx-first for about 6 years. I discovered this before figuring out my enneagram type, actually.

I didn't actually figure it out for myself--a bunch of folks on Personality Café all started telling me my posts SCREAMED sx-first. Here I'd been reading all these posts about these crazed sx-first vampires lusting with INTENSITY, needing to suck the lifeforce to fulfill their sxness, grasping and moaning and thrusting and ugh. And I'm just like LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL, no way would I be that crazy instinct. And prior to coming to PerC, I was already familiar with Riso and Hudson's description of the SX subtype, and they noted that people often mistype as sx-firsts because they think they're sexy or enjoy sex or something. And that was part of it--I had a reaction against doing what the majority of people did, and no way did I consider myself sexy. So basically I did the opposite things using the same logic loooool.

So I thought I was sx-last. And then PerC was like, No.

And just in the spirit of being open-minded, I considered it, and it actually started making sense.

I mean, my whole life was defined by me being utterly miserable because I could never seem to find a relationship and I believed I was undesirable. I couldn't fit in with others in groups, either, but it didn't torment me to this degree. This was the sort of thing that would leave my crying myself to sleep at night and wondering what was actually wrong with me, swearing suicide, causing meltdowns, and resenting literally everyone. I was verbally abused as a child about my appearance and internalized a lot of that messaging (to protect myself from it actually), and just assumed that I was some disgusting swamp monster that no one would ever want.

So inwardly that was the story. But outwardly, I mean. I'm already of the mindset that it's somehow weak to be beholden to "Love", that romance is silly, and that I don't need a man to make me happy. And combining that with my own disappointment, I was just the most judgemental bitter asshole you could meet. I couldn't stand to talk about sexual issues--not only cause it's basically taboo in society, but also because I felt it was one of those things that the Universe acted like I wasn't supposed to know and, well, when the world turns its back you, you turn your back on the world. Beautiful women really irked me, women expressing their sexuality really irked me...because they were competition, and they were entitled to be attractive, and I would never have that, so why not tear them down? A miserable being must make more miserable beings, then he's happy. I wanted fairness, damnit!! And my life was so unfair.

Rather than wander the world, I just sort of locked myself in my room and lived in my imagination. I didn't go out and do things or have "intense experiences" and was just bitter that life was cutting me out of itself, yet I would say, Fuck off, I didn't want it anyway. I used to deliberately hang out with the Ned Flanders types and quilting moms (who are like the exact opposite of what I want from life) just because that way I didn't have to directly face my own inadequacies. My self-esteem being dependent on all this stuff. So I had a really negative self-image for years cause I legitimately felt like I was failing in the sx-first realm, but it always came out in this subversive, bitter, moralizing way, and me cutting myself out of stuff and then wondering why I always seemed to get cut out of stuff.

Something I have noticed is that many of my friends over the years (admittedly I've only had 2 like this lol) were sx-firsts who I think at some level saw this about me and felt safe with it. I wasn't a threat to them or their feelings, because I was so busy decrying our sex-obsessed world I wasn't contributing to it. They drew heart from my protestations; I fought against their fears and insecurities...to combat my own. To hide it from myself. When Naranjo says that our dominant instinct is a weakness posing as a strength...it never seemed like a strength to me, but others saw me as very strong in this area. Not in the sense of my being "more attractive" or whatever, but in the sense of holding fast in a tormenting world.

Anyway. Then I got sick (and found my type during this period), and then I got depressed (around sx-first issues, incidentally, because that was my weak point and so the area of my psyche where the link broke first), and then I wasted years locked in my house and realized I was basically going to kill myself unless I got some sort of healing around this. I got into Taoist and Tantric practices, and damned if it isn't working. No partner, I'm just doing the inner work. "Healing sexuality" and stuff. I found out that very many practitioners are sx-firsts themselves, and my story isn't really that uncommon. I dunno why I couldn't have found this stuff 10 or 20 years ago, but thank God I found it at all.

So yeah. That's a quick recap. It was...just so liberating to figure this out. I understood the most tormenting areas of my psyche, and although they still hurt, I feel for the first time that I'm not some freak of nature and there's a pattern behind it, and that the damage can be repaired.

Thank you so much for sharing this. I love the bolded. lol!

I can really relate to much of it. The feeling miserable, like a failure, undesirable for not being able to do this thing that it seems like everyone else is doing easily. The feeling irked by others showing off. The conflict between needing to fulfill this need but hating that you need others to fulfill it. Others who oftentimes seem to think there's something wrong with the intensity.

Are there any specific resources you'd recommend that you've been using in your healing journey?

Mentioning being irked at others showing off reminds me of relationship issues with jealousy and a non sx dom partner not able to comprehend the reasoning behind it. Feeling threatened by others, who might be competition, wanting reassurance, but never getting it. Wanting validation, but not getting it. That can mess with your head, much like not finding a relationship at all. Especially when the partner thinks there's something inherently wrong with wanting it, let alone needing it.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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Thank you so much for sharing this. I love the bolded. lol!

I can really relate to much of it. The feeling miserable, like a failure, undesirable for not being able to do this thing that it seems like everyone else is doing easily. The feeling irked by others showing off. The conflict between needing to fulfill this need but hating that you need others to fulfill it. Others who oftentimes seem to think there's something wrong with the intensity.

Are there any specific resources you'd recommend that you've been using in your healing journey?

Mentioning being irked at others showing off reminds me of relationship issues with jealousy and a non sx dom partner not able to comprehend the reasoning behind it. Feeling threatened by others, who might be competition, wanting reassurance, but never getting it. Wanting validation, but not getting it. That can mess with your head, much like not finding a relationship at all. Especially when the partner thinks there's something inherently wrong with wanting it, let alone needing it.
You mean if I'd ever had a relationship, I would have suffered JUST AS MUCH???

Aaaaaugh!

No!

I legitimately thought that would solve all my problems. Sigh.

I now realize what a big thing this is for me to share that at all. You know, 5 years ago, when I first started, this was so painfully wedged in my psyche, and so personal, I could hardly articulate it to myself let alone share on a public forum. I've really come a long way in being able to deconstruct it, verbalize it, and present it without reaction. (And I MUST present it, because no one else talks about it).

I attribute this to, firstly, years of journaling. Naranjo says, psychoanalyze yourself. And that's basically what I did over the last 6 years. When an issue would arise, or if I were feeling particularly pained (I talked about depression), I would analyze it and come to a better understanding. And in this way, I was able to separate these issues from my sense of self, to gain distance from it. But after awhile, I started feeling like, OK, I've hashed and rehashed and rehashed again. Now what? I needed something to "do" about it, some way to heal myself.

I said to the universe, Show me how to heal myself. And then, then answer came to me within several months. As described above.

As to resources. It only works if you're a girl, but I bought a jade egg. Also signed up for several online Tantra courses geared toward "healing sexuality". Most of the participants seem to be survivors of sexual abuse who blocked themselves off from their sexuality, which is like the exact opposite of me, but the lessons were still applicable to my own traumas and sense of grief.

There isn't any one specific exercise I could recommend, because it comes as a shift in mentality and working with the body as old hurts arise. Breathing exercises (which actually work, sheeyit!). Etc. Since January, I've lifted my depression and have managed to rework my mentality around these issues so that I can maintain/center myself somewhat better. I'm not perfect yet, but that's why it's a lifelong practice. I don't want to turn this into a sales pitch, but if you (or anyone) are curious, PM me for specific details and I can name some practitioners who have helped me. It might not be the specific thing you need, but there's an entire network of people involved in "sexual healing", and they sometimes send around other information. If you're short on cash, you can also find a number of practices on youtube, but you'd seriously need some discipline to benefit from it.



I hope that works. I feel like I've shared and overshared. None of this (journaling/exercises) is a quick fix, it's a lifestyle thing. Best of luck, other humans! :hi:
 

Obfuscate

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Have you Sx-firsts been told many times that your gaze is intense?

i hear that pretty often... i think i am pretty expressive in general (lots of body language, facial shifts, and extended eye contact)... if i'm talking to someone, my eyes rarely shift from their eyes unless i have something else going on or there is an odd group dynamic at play...a good example of what i mean by a group dynamic would be getting nonverbal ques from a guy that he thinks i seem too interested in his girlfriend... it's funny, when something makes me self conscious of my gaze, my eyes sort of dart about, or i spend time looking at shit like my hand, the distance, etc... when i was at the gas station today (pumping gas) this woman kept smiling at me... after seeing her do it a couple times she randomly said "people don't like to mess with you, do they?"... she didn't seem put off or anything (talked about camping for a bit), and i decieded it was a compliment... i like to play the game in restraunts where you make people wonder if you are looking at them (hold eye contact when you happen to glance at eachother, then repeat)...

anyhow, here are some more random comments: "it feels like you're looking into me", "you have such warm, pretty eyes", "i like talking to you because it feels like you really listen to me"...

here are some negative comments for counterbalance: "i wish you wouldn't look at me like that; it makes me uncomfortable", "when you were talking about _______ your eyes got really dark; i wouldn't want to piss you off"... most negative reactions are nonverbal...
 

The Cat

Just a Magic Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads.
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Have you Sx-firsts been told many times that your gaze is intense?


Yes, quite often. I can relate to a lot of what Obfuscate illustrates in his usual well worded fashion^_^, I've also been told I have a tendency to stare so much to the point I've had an so's who were constantly asking me to blink when we were talking.
 

Luminous

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You mean if I'd ever had a relationship, I would have suffered JUST AS MUCH???

Aaaaaugh!

No!

I legitimately thought that would solve all my problems. Sigh.

I now realize what a big thing this is for me to share that at all. You know, 5 years ago, when I first started, this was so painfully wedged in my psyche, and so personal, I could hardly articulate it to myself let alone share on a public forum. I've really come a long way in being able to deconstruct it, verbalize it, and present it without reaction. (And I MUST present it, because no one else talks about it).

Well, I for one, really appreciate your bravery and insight in sharing it. You are likely helping people and you'll probably never get to know about most of them. ;)
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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Well, I for one, really appreciate your bravery and insight in sharing it. You are likely helping people and you'll probably never get to know about most of them. ;)

I certainly hope so! No one was there to help me. I had to do this all on my own. I am a pioneer.
 

notmyapples

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Have you Sx-firsts been told many times that your gaze is intense?

I have soft features and small, round eyes so I don't have an intense look by default, but I've noticed that many people become nervous when I'm watching them talk. I try to actively be aware of looking away every couple seconds as to put others at ease yet it feels forced and unnatural. I have gotten comments on how my expression snaps between piercing or deadpan when listening while emotive and warm when speaking. I get asked if I'm sad a lot when I'm not conversing.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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Yeah ok, I'll post here again.

Have you Sx-firsts been told many times that your gaze is intense?

It's funny, because I have been told that actually. A couple of times. I'm not sure what it means really. I know my eyes can be really hard and...piercing? But intense? idk.

The most recent time was a photograph I sent someone this past Christmas, and he said I had "an intense gaze" or something. Now this was kind of a poor quality grainy picture, and I could actually witness my gaze from the outside. And damned if I know what the hell it even means. I seriously look like I'm just staring at nothing.

However. I have photographic proof. At the risk of yet another huge overshare, well, I'll post it here. Just the eyes cause idk I don't want to feel vain or something.

eyes.jpg
I don't think my eyes are "intense". But, this is apparently the kind of thing that people comment on. Beats me.

Those are my mom's glasses btw. LOL
 

Peter Deadpan

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My boyfriend has very intense eyes at times, but if he's Sx, he has to be a 9 cuz he's more often melty than fiery (he's def either 6 or 9). I tend to feel more Sx than him with my shenanigans, but I've never once been told my gaze is intense. I did have a previous partner (ISTJ) who would ask me when I spaced out if I was "looking into the future". I should have said "yeah, you jealous?" ;)
 

Wunjo

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I understood what you were saying. I guess I was saying I don't really need that or have a lust for it, but I can play with it at will, for funsies.
I do need it to a smaller extent in romantic relationships, but if we're a good match, it usually just happens naturally without worry or effort.

My boyfriend has a very intense gaze that sometimes makes me feel oddly uncomfortable. I feel more connected to him when it is softened, probably because I feel subconsciously threatened. It's like he's stabbing into me, which I guess is why it's called "piercing" or a "sharp gaze". Other than that, he generally seems pretty relaxed and nonthreatening to me, which has confused me when trying to type him.

Have you Sx-firsts been told many times that your gaze is intense?

Yes. One friend told me that he felt that I was peeling him like an onion, layer by layer when I stared at him. My gaze also captured the attention of some lovers in the past.
 

Sacrophagus

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There are things I particularly enjoy in the open-mindedness of some Sx dom individuals. Namely, women's ability to charm men and make them look like complete retards. I find that rather amusing.

Once upon a time, I went to buy a new pair of shoes, and my then edgy adolescent INFP sister offered to come along. She was always good company, so why not. She might entertain me during the bus ride.

When we arrived, the store owner was eyeing her the whole time with a cocky smirk while ironically gulping like a thirsty pig. She came and told me in confidentiality to pick any pair of shoes I wanted without caring about the price. I knew where this was going, and so I did. She literally sucked his existence and hypnotized him with her gaze. Her body movements were serpentine charming him into submission, and it made me disgusted to witness that scene. I turned on my Game Boy console to avoid puking.

That clueless cock was really friendly with me. "That's your little brother? He is so handsome.", and I would look at him with eyes that said "Yeah. You just want to fuck my sister, moron."

He was entranced, and we got to go home with four pairs of shoes. She could've driven him into destitution if she wanted to.

She never targeted humble guys though. She would feel guilty as fuck. But whenever there was a fuckboi, she knew she was going to get a discount and have a story to tell.
 

Luminous

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Question: In your experiences, do you find that your partners' instinctual stackings are important? Are relationships with other sx doms more fulfilling? Does it matter?
 

Peter Deadpan

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Question: In your experiences, do you find that your partners' instinctual stackings are important? Are relationships with other sx doms more fulfilling? Does it matter?

I actually do think it matters more than most facets of personality typing. I find that there is more wiggle room for differences in cognitive functions or Enneagram than there is for instincts. I have read that the best pairs are reverse stackings of the same preferences, like Sx/Sp + Sp/Sx. They share the same overall values but are each more relaxed about the other's primary than the other is, which lowers overall neuroticism. Two Sx subtypes together could be very hot and cold, competitive, and fiery. While this would provide highs here and there for each person, it would also make for some very tense moments of insecurity. I see these relationships frequently ending in explosion.
 

StarFollowed

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Question: In your experiences, do you find that your partners' instinctual stackings are important? Are relationships with other sx doms more fulfilling? Does it matter?

I do believe they are important to a degree, but I’ve learned that someone being sx dom doesn’t mean the relationship will necessarily be healthy or work in the long term.
 

Amberiat

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Question: In your experiences, do you find that your partners' instinctual stackings are important? Are relationships with other sx doms more fulfilling? Does it matter?

I would imagine sx/sp or sp/sx would make the best partners, at least on paper, right?
 

INTP1W2

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I have soft features and small, round eyes so I don't have an intense look by default, but I've noticed that many people become nervous when I'm watching them talk. I try to actively be aware of looking away every couple seconds as to put others at ease yet it feels forced and unnatural. I have gotten comments on how my expression snaps between piercing or deadpan when listening while emotive and warm when speaking. I get asked if I'm sad a lot when I'm not conversing.

The eye thing and the intensity has often been a problem for me when trying to interact with other people; people always seem to notice my eyes first. I don't like people looking into my eyes unless I want them to (yes...there are actually times where this is possible!). I believe that the eyes are a window to the soul and everyone should not be looking at my soul. I'm always looking every but into a person's eyes: 1) don't feel it's right to look into their souls if I'm not willing to let them look into mines and 2) I'm thinking and processing when conversing (yes, about the conversation at hand)...I'm focusing on what we're talking about...and to keep from being distracted, I intentionally DON'T look into their eyes. It's like public speaking...you do fine remembering your lines and remembering to look down at your notes and then look up but everything goes wrong when you look into the eyes of the audience.

In a one on one conversation, I try to look into the eyes of the person for just a second or two and then away again. I find that when I'm really in tune with a person or there is a connection, I always want to look into their eyes. When I do, people get quiet like "What?" And I have to be like, "Nothing....I'm just listening to what you're saying." I agree that I look into their eyes for their sakes...to put them at ease but it sure does feel like it's forced and unnatural. People always say my looks are intense.
 

INTP1W2

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People are always on me about my gazes and stares. Half the time, I'm thinking and processing and planning. People have said I look like I'm having an out-of-body experience and that I look like that because I'm not actually in my body at the moment. Weird. People that wanted to approach me to start a conversation or maybe a new friendship have said they didn't because I looked too "busy" or "preoccupied" and they really didn't want to interrupt. Even when I'm processing my own feelings and emotions, people say these things. I'm often asked "Penny for your thoughts?" This is all intense but I've also been told that when I'm pissed at you or hurt by you or angry with you, the intensity of my looks increase exponentially. As if that is possible.
 

Neokortex

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I get energy back from deep intense relationships but lose energy fast on other types of relationships. So I'm burning resources to reach out, and typically a lot of people either aren't that responsive (i.e., I have to do all the initiating to engage) or are happier operating on a more surface or casual level.

So my tendency is to feel people out quickly and determine how to invest my energy efficiently.

(...) I try to be realistic in my expectations. It's just that I'm old enough now, I know I also have to invest over a long haul to build a relationship, but I've also learned to feel out how deep/intense the relationship will likely be based on the response I'm getting back

(...)(I believe in service as a way to show a commitment) but typically I usually feel adrift in a big empty universe on the personal level... alone, pretty much. I just don't often meet folks who dive straight in. Usually those people are easier to meet online since we're not bound by geography.
I second the bolded. And the rest too, except that I believe less and less in service as a way to show commitment. You do service to fake commitment. To have them keep you and pay you. And don't agree with the last sentence: while the "feel out how deep/intense the relationship will likely be" comes as fresh water in a barren desert (uuuurgh at last somebody I'm not the only one), it's precisely because of that in my experience people on the net are more disorganized. I'm not even sure you are an Sx/Sp (wording comes across as mellow, perhaps Sx/So?), let alone the people here... probably 2 are Sx second and the rest So/Sps.

It took me a while to figure the social types out: it doesn't really matter what it is that brings people together, the point is to not let the overall goal to interfere with your assimilation, friendships. And they are everywhere, they come invited or not, they flood every place without remorse because everyone knows that you don't survive by taking things too seriously. You always survive by joining some group, some hierarchy, kissing up, and by whatever you can get on the side: it's not the overall goal of that group that is important, it's what you and the guys do at lunch break or in the restroom during work hours, under the desk on your smartphone during the meeting, negotiating, trying to turn the resources this hierarchy has amassed to your advantage. Trying to assert your will while pretexting the boss's orders. Trying to get to know the key people in a typology forum, while making it look like you were really interested in the theory. And keeping an eye out for newcomers so when she appears, immediately: whereshefrom?, whatsocialclass?, whatsocialstatus? whatconnections? howaboutbuildingasubbranchoftypologythatwouldcreatenewleadershippositionsformeandmypalsandwedshareourcutfromtheallotmentofftherecord. And when some honest people come in, the socials pay attention more: "now that's how you behave when you are a loyal, earnest, self-sacrificing typology fan! Quick, better add some Sx to my stack for they sure do seem to know what they talk about. We need better PR!, the bigger the party, the more friends possible. And who cares if I got my type wrong, people make friends everywhere. It's just a damn forum..."
 
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