Sexual / Intimate First Support Group

[Abcdenfp]

do go on

i second this request... i also feel you

[Totenkindly]

Care to elaborate on the "attempts to jump-start connections"?

I was writing off the cuff...

... but basically for me (since I seem to be kind of zilch SO in my focus, and with strong bits of SX and SP), I get energy back from deep intense relationships but lose energy fast on other types of relationships. So I'm burning resources to reach out, and typically a lot of people either aren't that responsive (i.e., I have to do all the initiating to engage) or are happier operating on a more surface or casual level.

So my tendency is to feel people out quickly and determine how to invest my energy efficiently.

It's not as cut-and-dried as I make it sound. I try to be realistic in my expectations. It's just that I'm old enough now, I know I also have to invest over a long haul to build a relationship, but I've also learned to feel out how deep/intense the relationship will likely be based on the response I'm getting back, so... I dunno. There's a variety of SX types and it would be easy to seem invasive because I want to cut past all the surface chatter and casual stuff and talk about deeply personal things, but I'm also not someone who is naturally invasive, so... I don't push and basically my interaction circle can feel small.

It's not that I don't see value in more casual relationships (they're useful), but they don't make me happy at a core level whereas I feel like that kind of "professional/casual community" relationship network is satisfying for some people. [I really am not SO at all. Some people feel very satisfied in life being known in a large group and having a role, etc. With me, I feel faceless and disconnected and lost even if everyone knows who I am, like I'm not part of anything.] I try to maintain those as best I can by making small talk when the situations come up, and I make myself accessible to others as best as I can, and I contribute to groups as I can (I believe in service as a way to show a commitment) but typically I usually feel adrift in a big empty universe on the personal level... alone, pretty much. I just don't often meet folks who dive straight in. Usually those people are easier to meet online since we're not bound by geography. And see, if I was pure Self-Pres, I wouldn't care. But I do... I feel like I'm slowly bleeding away even when my life is stable and I'm content in that much.

I probably could have said all that better, but I've been sick for a few days and just don't have energy anyway. I feel tired just from writing that much. Meh.

[Peter Deadpan]

I'm not an Sx first but I play one on TV.

[1487610420]

I'm not an Sx first but I play one on TV.

[anticlimatic]

What is an sx first person?

[Qlip]

I’m interested in understanding this hummingbird analogy better...


*hummingbird is a relative term...this is something I’ve immediately taken away from this and feel enriched... And in this way I think I’m getting tripped up on my understanding of this amazing and sometimes frightening bird when it flies close and the sound and speed makes me believe it is a Jurassic insect and jump out of my skin....

In my mind when I’m moving from flower to flower that’s me trying to avoid something (7 - enneagram gold is the only way to describe it).

To me sx dominance..: well it’s like you can hear others saying “please stop doing this one thing that you have been doing for a super long time and with a degree of intensity that is making others uncomfortable...”. <- So you can see why I want to understand your meaning...

So, my metaphors are totally idiosyncratic, mind you. I feel like sx has more of a hummingbird quality than e7. So like you said, e7s read to me more as slippery in nature, continually self distracting. Sx is deep and intense and sustains the dom, but it's very rare that any one person or subject can hold up to that intensity indefinitely, so Sx has a tendency to move around, looking for new sources of nectar, returning to flowers that have been able to replenish their supply. E7 'flightiness' is essentially avoidance, Sx intensity isn't always avoidance, it's often growth.

[Spectre]

I was writing off the cuff...

... but basically for me (since I seem to be kind of zilch SO in my focus, and with strong bits of SX and SP), I get energy back from deep intense relationships but lose energy fast on other types of relationships. So I'm burning resources to reach out, and typically a lot of people either aren't that responsive (i.e., I have to do all the initiating to engage) or are happier operating on a more surface or casual level.

So my tendency is to feel people out quickly and determine how to invest my energy efficiently.

It's not as cut-and-dried as I make it sound. I try to be realistic in my expectations. It's just that I'm old enough now, I know I also have to invest over a long haul to build a relationship, but I've also learned to feel out how deep/intense the relationship will likely be based on the response I'm getting back, so... I dunno. There's a variety of SX types and it would be easy to seem invasive because I want to cut past all the surface chatter and casual stuff and talk about deeply personal things, but I'm also not someone who is naturally invasive, so... I don't push and basically my interaction circle can feel small.

It's not that I don't see value in more casual relationships (they're useful), but they don't make me happy at a core level whereas I feel like that kind of "professional/casual community" relationship network is satisfying for some people. [I really am not SO at all. Some people feel very satisfied in life being known in a large group and having a role, etc. With me, I feel faceless and disconnected and lost even if everyone knows who I am, like I'm not part of anything.] I try to maintain those as best I can by making small talk when the situations come up, and I make myself accessible to others as best as I can, and I contribute to groups as I can (I believe in service as a way to show a commitment) but typically I usually feel adrift in a big empty universe on the personal level... alone, pretty much. I just don't often meet folks who dive straight in. Usually those people are easier to meet online since we're not bound by geography. And see, if I was pure Self-Pres, I wouldn't care. But I do... I feel like I'm slowly bleeding away even when my life is stable and I'm content in that much.

I probably could have said all that better, but I've been sick for a few days and just don't have energy anyway. I feel tired just from writing that much. Meh.

Hmm I think I am an sp/sx, but I can relate to quite a bit of what you have written.

I, too, try to feel people out, but I wonder how often I am correct.

Anyways, thanks for sharing.

[Totenkindly]

So, my metaphors are totally idiosyncratic, mind you. I feel like sx has more of a hummingbird quality than e7. So like you said, e7s read to me more as slippery in nature, continually self distracting. Sx is deep and intense and sustains the dom, but it's very rare that any one person or subject can hold up to that intensity indefinitely, so Sx has a tendency to move around, looking for new sources of nectar, returning to flowers that have been able to replenish their supply. E7 'flightiness' is essentially avoidance, Sx intensity isn't always avoidance, it's often growth.

I wasn't sure where you were going with the hummingbird analogy, it's not one that readily came to mind, but your explanation makes sense and I relate to the part about moving around because of the limited ability of anything to maintain an intense enough connection. (I feel some guilt because it can sound from the outside like a vampire of sorts, but typically the other person is also keyed into the same thing and we both "get it" and what we both want and need so it's a mutual engagement where souls are meeting....) And yes, the comparison to e7 which aims to diffuse and experience in part as avoidance... I don't leave a source to avoid, I leave either because we're both out of energy in that connection or (my own thing) I sometimes just get anxious I'm invading in some way and/or don't want to feel intrusive.

(... some of that for me is less personality theory, more behavioral learning dealing with dysfunctional parents problem, where I always felt like I was a bother with my dad and he would lock us all out of his life and try to make people feel guilty if they ever wanted to engage him past the surface. Behavior stems from inborn traits + environmental learning...)

[Starry]

So, my metaphors are totally idiosyncratic, mind you. I feel like sx has more of a hummingbird quality than e7. So like you said, e7s read to me more as slippery in nature, continually self distracting. Sx is deep and intense and sustains the dom, but it's very rare that any one person or subject can hold up to that intensity indefinitely, so Sx has a tendency to move around, looking for new sources of nectar, returning to flowers that have been able to replenish their supply. E7 'flightiness' is essentially avoidance, Sx intensity isn't always avoidance, it's often growth.

I don’t have a proper response to this yet...and look forward to reading Totemkindly’s as I noticed she replied...but this is awesome. It’s extraordinary to me when people take the time to explain what they see...from some angle of sight you, yourself can’t bend far enough to catch a glimpse of... Its just so valuable...thank you Qlip

[Luminous]

I apologize for taking a bit to come back and write more. I wanted to wait until my thoughts would be more coherent.

In the Social last support group thread, @brainheart linked to a description of sx 4s: [Enneagram Type 4] Fine Distinctions  Fours  Tom Condon

On the panel in my 1997 presentation, David was the poster child exemplar for the sx 4. True to expressing the high side of the sx 4, he was willing to share the raw, unedited truth of what it meant to have sx 4 as his primary defense strategy. It was so compelling and revealing that sx4s came up to me and to us throughout the rest of the conference and shared how much it meant to them to know that there were other people that felt the same way they did… and struggled with the emotional intensity.

They were relieved to have their gifts acknowledged and to understand more about their challenges. Until that panel, when they compared themselves to other 4s, they thought they were the 'bad' difficult, flawed, outspoken 4. When they had been with other 4s that did not have the sexual instinct they felt like they were too much… So they felt misunderstood by the other 4s and felt ashamed to mention their fiery intensity and emotional outbursts.

The reason for this is that until then, nothing had been written about the sx 4’s fiery emotional intensity. From the first books written in the late 80s to those written in the early 90s, 4s were described more in terms of the so 4 and sp 4. In the chapters on 4s, they were described as sad, shy and withdrawing.

This is what the sx 4 feels as well… at first…. but if the issue is about a mate or a strongly held passion, their fear of abandonment is triggered and they react with intense, angry emotions. We all know what happens if we feel intense angry emotions… imagine if this was your primary defense strategy. wink emoticon So, it was easy to see why sx 4s had concealed their fiery emotional reactivity. When triggered, they are feeling that they are not enough and all is lost. After an outburst they feel intense shame. When they finally heard about this fierce intensity from other sx 4s they finally felt met and more understood.

What I learned from the sx 4s is that on the high side, they are fiercely protective of intimates and when inflamed will more than go the distance in service of those to whom they are intimately attached.

What was so key for me to learn in that first study was that the sx 4s felt that ‘everyone’ had the right to express their individuality. And, if you have known and/or loved a sx 4, then you know how they can see someone’s uniqueness and individual gifts better than others. It is an amazing gift when they shine their light in someone’s direction. They see tiny nuances about people that most miss. They call off the beautiful and the ugly with the same ease. They are amazing troubadours that share their inner world and what makes us all human… and more specifically, our flaws and imperfections. They can make people feel truly seen. In fact, when coming from the high side, sx 4s are by far the most inclined to see what is innately human.

And we chatted about, despite being introverted types who do not naturally initiate in social situations, feeling compelled in certain situations to initiate when there's a strong magnetic pull toward someone. For myself, I don't mean impulsive. Perhaps much of the reason I've been told it's "overwhelming", "too much", or found myself met with the other person's inability to communicate much of anything, is because I likely waited a bit too long, and allowed the feelings to boil up and out. I did honestly think that was what people did: grand declarations of love, outpourings of emotion, vulnerable honesty. I was extremely hurt when the response to my vulnerability and honesty, and the compliment I considered it to be, the gift I thought I was giving, was met with silence by several people. I understand more about their reaction now, can see how it was more from their points of view, but at the time, it felt like they were saying I wasn't worth responding to, I wasn't even worth rejecting.

So I share Totenkindly's frustrations with feeling like I do the initiating much of the time. Of course, with that being the case, when someone else initiates, I don't always know how I ought to react. And now it's making me wonder about boundaries. There's advice that people shouldn't expect everything from one person; it's too much. And it is, really. You can't reasonably expect to get everything you need from other people from one person. But how do you decide where the boundaries go?

I also feel that, despite the movie cliches, there's an attitude that you shouldn't want so intensely to find that connection; like it means there's something wrong with you (Why don't you just look for whatever it is in yourself? Or build up your own self esteem so you don't need that connection), or that you're unrealistic and too idealistic (Okay, maybe they got me there, but what's the alternative? Just give up? Never be satisfied? - Maybe I won't be, it's likely I'm a 469 or 496 so doubt is inherent.)

And I am by no means at an advanced level of understanding. Some of what I'm talking about could have more to do with being an INFP or my enneagram type or something else entirely. Feel free to say that if you think it.