Sexual / Intimate First Support Group

[Luminous]

It's the rosy glasses, making us see things...

Yeah, actually. On one level, I suspect that's the idea that's probably true to some extent, but experience has given me a bitter lesson about ideas that are only true in ideal, YET I still fall back into the same rose-glasses whenever things get better. Thanks tho!

Oh, I can relate, very much. I suspect I'm going to struggle with the Ideal not being possible for the rest of my life.

[Luminous]

Looking at the The Female curve appreciation thread and how different the images posted by those who are sx-blind and those who aren't could be made me think about something.

Images like

vs images like

I'm not sure exactly how to articulate this, so I hope it makes sense.

Growing up sx dom, but both not feeling like I was the kind of female that could look like the top photo and not wanting to be the phony model who pretends and fakes and poses in non-natural ways, was difficult. It doesn't feel to me like much distinction is made in our culture between what is sexy and sensual and what is conventionally attractive in an sx blind way (the artificial pose, the airbrushed perfection, the sweet smiling eye contact, the perfectly pretty face); that the two are shoved together in a way where if you are not the perfectly pretty airbrushed impossible-to-be model, you're not sexy, you shouldn't feel confident about yourself, and you shouldn't have the confidence and comfort in your own skin to be sensual.

Looking back now, I think that part of what made me angry, upset, or uncomfortable about images like that in the past is (in addition to it being impossible to live up to): as an sx dom, it feels phony in a way that would force me to sacrifice some integrity, and in a way that has insulted part of the core of my personality. These images are praised for something important, by people who it feels like don't really understand that important thing, while there are few examples of people being praised for what feels like a sincere display of sx. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it feels like there's a big lack of sx dom role models or just healthy examples. Having validation for sincere appeal is important, but if it seems like you have to be a phony sx blind person in order to get it, well, it's a catch 22.

*I am not saying that sx blind people are phony or not capable of being sexy or appreciating sexiness, etc.

[Powehi]

@Luminous
Very interesting insights. It is difficult to articulate, but what you wrote resonates with me a lot. I think perhaps part of it is that deep sensuality goes beyond the surface image, so the more artistic examples that you posted and that I tend to be drawn towards feel sensual because they resonate more deeply. When sensuality is presented in a perfunctory manner for quick physical scratch-the-itch-release or to establish social status, it feels so hollow and repulsive to me. Sensuality is every part of a person - to the core like you said. Vulnerability and flaws have the potential to be the most erotic of all because they are truth, they are real, and they are what make us unique. Also, those traits that leave us rejected by some can be made most erotic when finally seen and embraced. To feel pressured into pure convention that everyone can admire is to completely lose oneself and have no intimacy. Conventional sensuality for social power is like the antithesis to intimacy and eroticism.

[Powehi]

This is actually a rather awesome thread that I've never known about. Being sx-first and an introvert with a lot of sensitivities, it has caused a lot of pain in my life. I do crave intense connection and my sexuality is filtered through a lens of intimacy and emotionality, so that combination causes pain. People who are sexual and can sleep around or 'have fun' are alien to me, and I often feel like I can't talk about any of it or it implies I'm open for business. People often assume I'm not very sexual because I hide it so deeply, but all three of my romantic partners shot me down and had no interest in sexuality and intimacy in any way similar to me. It has left me really broken in life. Sometimes it hurt so badly it felt like the inverse of rape (and I know because I had that too). That continual rejection is like anti-rape, or arape. There should be a name for it because everyone feels completely entitled to shoot their partners down and still expect monogamy. I never cheated on any partner, but there are no words for how much pain that callous rejection combined with such entitlement and dismissal. Society supports it absolutely, so can we fault the individuals? I don't know. That's what life has been like - to have never been seen.

This is a seen from a horror movie, but aptly expresses the despair of being sx-dom in the face of continual dismissal and rejection. It's a horrible scene and dialed up to 11 for sure, but I know where she is at in that moment, even if the specifics are metaphorical in certain ways.
If you have never watched the horror movie, "May", I recommend it for that.
Scene: "See me"

[uncrowned]

Replying to this quote from a different thread:

@uncrowned There is a thread for sx doms... Sexual / Intimate First Support Group

I've also heard that strengthening the blind spot is supposed to help create more balance. I'm also sx/sp. So we need to strengthen our so, which we might do (I'm saying all this, though it's not as if I've actually completely successfully done it nor am I expert in it) by going toward the brighter light, the sunshine, of broader connections. Forcing ourselves to make more connections with others who may not appeal as strongly to the sx beast.

See, the issue for me is that at my current level I don't know how to do that without the natural push-pull and without boundary issues. Things are further complicated by people misinterpreting my energy/vibe for romantic interest (men). It can make some people feel awkward while for me, I was just getting started or didn't even feel anything towards them, not even on a platonic level... I just need to spend all that sx energy that has built up and has no release: in these cases, I don't discriminate, I just want attention and to have fun, almost anyone will do. Even people I don't even personally like, as long as they can keep up with me and I feel the chemistry.

Which reminds me of something I read about sx-first. It said something about using sx to avoid intimacy or push others away, and this ties in with developing our last instinct to calm our first one. Meaning, too much sx can bypass true intimacy, where you get to know the person over time and build something slowly, more slowly, rather than diving RIGHT IN AND OMG LET'S TELL EACH OTHER OUR DEEPEST SECRETS!!!!! I've been guilty of this bypass, especially as an sx/sp I can give the impression that I'm SUCH friends with someone, but nothing 'true' has actually been established on my end, while they feel a connection. This is precisely what allows me to be able to cut them off without feeling anything. I cut off when betrayed too, very suddenly, but in those cases I'm actually hurt. I'm talking about being so nonchalant and cold about leaving someone behind.

The other side of the "intimacy bypassing" coin is that I can purposely use sx to repel people. I know it does that on accident all the time and people will be repelled naturally, but I'm talking about intentionally scaring people away with intensity and intimidation so that they don't get too close.

So in developing our last instinct and calming the sx, we are not just reducing our neurotic desires/needs, but also sort of bringing down some of our walls.

I still don't believe sx-dom problems can totally be solved. I think at the end of the day, everyone is an "individual" and "separate" even in connection and even in being a part of something bigger (union or otherwise). Connection isn't this ongoing uninterrupted thing. I think I need to get used to this conflict within me, and that when I experience it, sometimes I don't have to "fix" it, just let it be.

It's frustrating, but I think that's the whole point of the dominant instinct, it's too much. With sx specifically, I guess you could say it fits the definition of "too muchness" more than other instincts, because it is more loud than sp-first, and more flamboyant than so-first (so-first also being more accepted in society, and thus considered normal rather than too much). And of course, personality is so complicated that whatever solutions one may come up with will have to be tailored to that individual specifically, taking into account their MBTI type, enneagram and wings, etc. etc. It isn't simply an sx-first issue. It's how it affects and is affected by everything else in our internal landscape.

[1487610420]

Replying to this quote from a different thread:



See, the issue for me is that at my current level I don't know how to do that without the natural push-pull and without boundary issues. Things are further complicated by people misinterpreting my energy/vibe for romantic interest (men). It can make some people feel awkward while for me, I was just getting started or didn't even feel anything towards them, not even on a platonic level... I just need to spend all that sx energy that has built up and has no release: in these cases, I don't discriminate, I just want attention and to have fun, almost anyone will do. Even people I don't even personally like, as long as they can keep up with me and I feel the chemistry.

Which reminds me of something I read about sx-first. It said something about using sx to avoid intimacy or push others away, and this ties in with developing our last instinct to calm our first one. Meaning, too much sx can bypass true intimacy, where you get to know the person over time and build something slowly, more slowly, rather than diving RIGHT IN AND OMG LET'S TELL EACH OTHER OUR DEEPEST SECRETS!!!!! I've been guilty of this bypass, especially as an sx/sp I can give the impression that I'm SUCH friends with someone, but nothing 'true' has actually been established on my end, while they feel a connection. This is precisely what allows me to be able to cut them off without feeling anything. I cut off when betrayed too, very suddenly, but in those cases I'm actually hurt. I'm talking about being so nonchalant and cold about leaving someone behind.

The other side of the "intimacy bypassing" coin is that I can purposely use sx to repel people. I know it does that on accident all the time and people will be repelled naturally, but I'm talking about intentionally scaring people away with intensity and intimidation so that they don't get too close.

So in developing our last instinct and calming the sx, we are not just reducing our neurotic desires/needs, but also sort of bringing down some of our walls.

I still don't believe sx-dom problems can totally be solved. I think at the end of the day, everyone is an "individual" and "separate" even in connection and even in being a part of something bigger (union or otherwise). Connection isn't this ongoing uninterrupted thing. I think I need to get used to this conflict within me, and that when I experience it, sometimes I don't have to "fix" it, just let it be.

It's frustrating, but I think that's the whole point of the dominant instinct, it's too much. With sx specifically, I guess you could say it fits the definition of "too muchness" more than other instincts, because it is more loud than sp-first, and more flamboyant than so-first (so-first also being more accepted in society, and thus considered normal rather than too much). And of course, personality is so complicated that whatever solutions one may come up with will have to be tailored to that individual specifically, taking into account their MBTI type, enneagram and wings, etc. etc. It isn't simply an sx-first issue. It's how it affects and is affected by everything else in our internal landscape.

except at bolded tho because

[uncrowned]

This is specifically for sx/sps, please only respond if you are certain you understand on a core level how it feels to be a hungry ghost. If you don't currently struggle with this issue, or never have, please keep your opinions to yourself.

How do you find balance between being too much (too intense, coming on too strong, wanting too much, showing too much, unbridledness) and being so self restrained that you don't dare share anything, suffering in silence, and fear, and loneliness? Once the dam breaks, how do you slow the flow? Is it even possible?

Is incorporating so more key?

For a long time I've tried to see it as an integration between these two opposite states. And when they are integrated they resemble "so".

What helps understand is if you think of it as infusing some sx into sp, and infusing some sp into sx. In other words, on the sp side of things, be more self-expressive and less fearful of letting people in, and on the sx side of things, be more inhibited so that you're not "puking" your energy all over the place and leaving traces of it on the walls, on other people, etc.

Swap traits, so to speak.

What happens, and I don't know if this is the result of the integration or the cause of the integration ~OR~ a back-and-forth sort of reinforcing feedback loop (i.e. both the result and cause), is that you are much more at peace with expressing both of these instincts and can switch between the two seamlessly. There is still a bit of an "on and off" quality to it but it's not jarring, it's more quietly mysterious. Take this with a grain of salt because RARE are the days I've experienced this so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but when I've experienced it, it's pretty much this feeling of being so whole and so in tune with all that you are: self protection, wanting to connect, and even wanting to contribute because you're now "okay" and not all that different from everyone else. It's like a new level of self-acceptance and inner peace, instead of a daily inner battle where you're being torn to shreds.

In short: it's about being more boundaried sx, and less boundaried sp... in the right places, because you still want to be magnetic but you also want to be able to say no and protect yourself. There is a free flowing of energy. A higher intelligence in what you truly need in any given moment.

[Lady Lazarus]

Which reminds me of something I read about sx-first. It said something about using sx to avoid intimacy or push others away, and this ties in with developing our last instinct to calm our first one. Meaning, too much sx can bypass true intimacy, where you get to know the person over time and build something slowly, more slowly, rather than diving RIGHT IN AND OMG LET'S TELL EACH OTHER OUR DEEPEST SECRETS!!!!! I've been guilty of this bypass, especially as an sx/sp I can give the impression that I'm SUCH friends with someone, but nothing 'true' has actually been established on my end, while they feel a connection. This is precisely what allows me to be able to cut them off without feeling anything. I cut off when betrayed too, very suddenly, but in those cases I'm actually hurt. I'm talking about being so nonchalant and cold about leaving someone behind.

This is so relatable. I don't feel anything when I toss most people aside and I won't even hesitate to do so on most fronts. But when I do have chemistry with someone I am really messed up when our relationship ends and it is so hard to let them go, I feel like I've created a void and like someone who has cut themselves off from an addiction. It literally took me years to get over my obsession with the last person who was like this but I don't even need any time to get over most people. I don't see anything less than that as important so I don't care when it ends. Most other people I've met aren't sensitive enough to the chemistry between us to make such distinctions though so they have tended to care and become upset. Especially because I do act in a way that I think makes people think we are better friends than we actually are. Especially when I am reeling from people I actually value that much, because I become kind of desperate to fill the void. And I basically fail to. I think I use the intimacy bypass and keeping of true intimacy away most of all when I am in such situations. It erroneously may make it seem like I'm more open than I am in general.

[Luminous]

Which reminds me of something I read about sx-first. It said something about using sx to avoid intimacy or push others away, and this ties in with developing our last instinct to calm our first one. Meaning, too much sx can bypass true intimacy, where you get to know the person over time and build something slowly, more slowly, rather than diving RIGHT IN AND OMG LET'S TELL EACH OTHER OUR DEEPEST SECRETS!!!!!

I relate to the push pull of wanting the connecting/charge/spark/fire, but also wanting to protect myself...

I've been guilty of this bypass, especially as an sx/sp I can give the impression that I'm SUCH friends with someone, but nothing 'true' has actually been established on my end, while they feel a connection. This is precisely what allows me to be able to cut them off without feeling anything. I cut off when betrayed too, very suddenly, but in those cases I'm actually hurt. I'm talking about being so nonchalant and cold about leaving someone behind.

But I don't think the above is related to sx/sp. As you say, many things affect us. Having had a devastating loss early on of someone I was obsessively passionate about; in a situation which made me feel like I was coldly left behind and that I'd been led on (by someone I suspect is so/sx), I internalized the pain in a way which would never allow me to act that way toward anyone else. I've always tried to be careful not to give people the wrong idea. I try not to treat the emotions of others carelessly. Perhaps this is because I'm a 9 or 2 or my strong 1 wings or being an INFP with this being a primary value to me. Anyway, it's not a universal for sx/sp.

[uncrowned]

@Luminous you may be right. I still think it's related to sx/sp but not necessarily universally experienced by all sx/sp's... or maybe it is, but in the sense that sx pulls in but there is still an sp wall that people have to get through. And this creates a sort of "I'm so interested, just kidding" dynamic even without intending to.

Giving people the wrong impression is not something I can control as much as I wish, they still interpret it that way. I'm just "captivating", and as an sx/sp it is focused rather than spread out like sx/so. But focus doesn't mean the person it is focused on is the right person or that I actually like them. Even if I have chemistry with them. It's just the way I interact with everyone. I'm faking my social instinct. Maybe that's key, the context and health levels. I'm not healthy. In new environments, my need to not stand out so much and chameleon is prioritized over authenticity and actual bonding.