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[sp] Self-Pres 7w6 and 6w7 look alike, right?

Avocado

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I am one of these two.
 

Avocado

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I am one of these two.

The way I see it, I just want to explore the world, eat good food, and enjoy good drinks. Self-Preservation 7w6 and 6w7 are both supposed to be nymphomaniacs. I’m demisexual, so I really don’t relate to that part, but I otherwise am a flaming hedonist in every other way.

The flip side to this you’ll like is I don’t think I’m special enough to boss other people around or demand things from them, so I support the freedom of others to live as they please, and don’t get all moralistic about doing “what’s good for them”.
 

Madboot

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It's a good question. I need to do more reading on enneagram. I'm unsure of whether I am a 5w6 or 6w5. The subtle differences elude me at this point.
 
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This is also what I have been trying to figure out for my mother. She's most definitely an sp-dom, so that in itself can make her come off pretty 6ish in general. I used to peg her as a 6w7 sp, but now I'm fairly confident she's a 7w6 sp/so after more sleuthing. In her youth she was the type that would quit her job to travel some place far and not worry about it because she knew she could always find another job after her vacation ended. I don't know about her sex life though (lol), so I can't help you there. However, I know marriage and children were never on her mind and she's always been really independent. She did enjoy the good life -- partying in nightclubs every weekend and traveling with friends (mind you she is an ESFP :wink:). When she grew older, she became far more cautious after having children.

My belief is her 6 wing became more prominent after she had kids, and in conjunction with sp would make a very 6ish 7. I'm pretty sure she's also sx last too, which might amplify it a bit more. Alternatively, her mother is an obvious phobic 6 and there were times she would act rather similarly to her mother too, but at the same time there are still major differences. She's more of a free bird in comparison to her mother, who's always been on the phobic 6 spectrum throughout her life and was never about that glamorous 7 outlook (might have something to do with her being super religious though).
 

RadicalDoubt

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The way I see it, I just want to explore the world, eat good food, and enjoy good drinks. Self-Preservation 7w6 and 6w7 are both supposed to be nymphomaniacs. I’m demisexual, so I really don’t relate to that part, but I otherwise am a flaming hedonist in every other way.

The flip side to this you’ll like is I don’t think I’m special enough to boss other people around or demand things from them, so I support the freedom of others to live as they please, and don’t get all moralistic about doing “what’s good for them”.

I might be able to help. I'm a 6 core sp/so (leaning towards 6w7 at this point though). I'm very adventurous and exploratory, and one of the few joys in life I find is finding weird food to try and keeping active. However, I wouldn't define myself as hedonistic in any respect, which I would attribute to the superego focus of type 6. I like exploring, but I'm also very controlled and constrained as typical 6s are.

(also don't let the nympho thing deter you, I'm asexual an I still fit in the 6w7 category. I don't think sex drive has much to do with enneagram tbh)
 

Avocado

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I might be able to help. I'm a 6 core sp/so (leaning towards 6w7 at this point though). I'm very adventurous and exploratory, and one of the few joys in life I find is finding weird food to try and keeping active. However, I wouldn't define myself as hedonistic in any respect, which I would attribute to the superego focus of type 6. I like exploring, but I'm also very controlled and constrained as typical 6s are.

(also don't let the nympho thing deter you, I'm asexual an I still fit in the 6w7 category. I don't think sex drive has much to do with enneagram tbh)

This is also what I have been trying to figure out for my mother. She's most definitely an sp-dom, so that in itself can make her come off pretty 6ish in general. I used to peg her as a 6w7 sp, but now I'm fairly confident she's a 7w6 sp/so after more sleuthing. In her youth she was the type that would quit her job to travel some place far and not worry about it because she knew she could always find another job after her vacation ended. I don't know about her sex life though (lol), so I can't help you there. However, I know marriage and children were never on her mind and she's always been really independent. She did enjoy the good life -- partying in nightclubs every weekend and traveling with friends (mind you she is an ESFP :wink:). When she grew older, she became far more cautious after having children.

My belief is her 6 wing became more prominent after she had kids, and in conjunction with sp would make a very 6ish 7. I'm pretty sure she's also sx last too, which might amplify it a bit more. Alternatively, her mother is an obvious phobic 6 and there were times she would act rather similarly to her mother too, but at the same time there are still major differences. She's more of a free bird in comparison to her mother, who's always been on the phobic 6 spectrum throughout her life and was never about that glamorous 7 outlook (might have something to do with her being super religious though).
These are both really good. I was anxious I’d get in trouble for “doing nothing” and I’m anxious about studying and doing well for my tests, and my heart is beating really fast and I feel agitated and I’m a little light headed. Everybody keeps calling me “twitchy and erratic” and that makes worse. I have a feeling something horrible is going to happen and I don’t completely know what it is. Also, I just recently finalized and formalized my decision to pursue teaching instead of a masters of social work, and I can’t shake the feeling I’ve madea horrible mistake. I could have potentially made a little more money doing social work. Part of me though is considering doing medical school prereqs and doing med school or maybe doing law school just to make more money. Central to my being is making as much money as possible so I can afford to take care of any problem that might come up. Occasionally, the constant stress and anxiety gets to me and I give into my pleasures and the things I really want to do, but I regret doing that later because it puts me behind financially. I’m constantly torn between spending and saving: Do I make life better for myself now or do I save money and live frugally now in case everything goes to shit later?
 

RadicalDoubt

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These are both really good. I was anxious I’d get in trouble for “doing nothing” and I’m anxious about studying and doing well for my tests, and my heart is beating really fast and I feel agitated and I’m a little light headed. Everybody keeps calling me “twitchy and erratic” and that makes worse. I have a feeling something horrible is going to happen and I don’t completely know what it is. Also, I just recently finalized and formalized my decision to pursue teaching instead of a masters of social work, and I can’t shake the feeling I’ve made a horrible mistake. I could have potentially made a little more money doing social work. Part of me though is considering doing medical school prereqs and doing med school or maybe doing law school just to make more money. Central to my being is making as much money as possible so I can afford to take care of any problem that might come up. Occasionally, the constant stress and anxiety gets to me and I give into my pleasures and the things I really want to do, but I regret doing that later because it puts me behind financially. I’m constantly torn between spending and saving: Do I make life better for myself now or do I save money and live frugally now in case everything goes to shit later?
Damn that doesn't sound like a fun situation, a lot of that sounds more just generally anxiety related (perhaps even related to a panic attack) rather than enneagram related tbh. Have you tried talking to someone close about things like this? I know when I feel really anxious or uncertain about the future it's super helpful to just have someone to vent ideas and thoughts onto, even if I'm not looking for advice. Typically if your close to the other person, they won't call you "twitchy and erratic," because that's just insensitive. It sounds like you're just uncertain about your current decisions, which is making you feel uncertain about the future. In the end, it's probably best to take the better path. You can be somewhat frugal, but it's not good to ignore your current wants and needs, especially if you're current anxiety levels are overwhelming. As long as you don't overdo it, you can enjoy life now and still prepare for the future. (Idk, here's some likely unwarranted advice, feel free to ignore it if it's not contextually useful or just plane awful :/)

7w6 vs 6w7 wise though, I think the best way to differentiate is by looking at the core fears; Does it scare you more that you might be boxed in or be overwhelmed by pain/deprived of what you like or do you fear that you will become controlled and manipulated by other and/or controlled and manipulated by your own self and fears? It's likely both could apply, as it's sounds like you definitely fall into the 7 and 6 category very strongly, but what matters is which applies more. It might be helpful to play with the ENFP 6 and 7 archetypes separately and compare those.
 

Avocado

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Damn that doesn't sound like a fun situation, a lot of that sounds more just generally anxiety related (perhaps even related to a panic attack) rather than enneagram related tbh. Have you tried talking to someone close about things like this? I know when I feel really anxious or uncertain about the future it's super helpful to just have someone to vent ideas and thoughts onto, even if I'm not looking for advice. Typically if your close to the other person, they won't call you "twitchy and erratic," because that's just insensitive. It sounds like you're just uncertain about your current decisions, which is making you feel uncertain about the future. In the end, it's probably best to take the better path. You can be somewhat frugal, but it's not good to ignore your current wants and needs, especially if you're current anxiety levels are overwhelming. As long as you don't overdo it, you can enjoy life now and still prepare for the future. (Idk, here's some likely unwarranted advice, feel free to ignore it if it's not contextually useful or just plane awful :/)

7w6 vs 6w7 wise though, I think the best way to differentiate is by looking at the core fears; Does it scare you more that you might be boxed in or be overwhelmed by pain/deprived of what you like or do you fear that you will become controlled and manipulated by other and/or controlled and manipulated by your own self and fears? It's likely both could apply, as it's sounds like you definitely fall into the 7 and 6 category very strongly, but what matters is which applies more. It might be helpful to play with the ENFP 6 and 7 archetypes separately and compare those.

Both, BUT...I think freedom from manipulation leads to being able to indulge my desires. I am aware of others feelings and desires but no longer really care about them that much. At one time on the forum, everybody was trying to peg me as a 2, but for me its less about being loved as it is trying to win people over so I can use them as resources. Even then, I don't fully trust the people I "befriend" and am always watching for them to stab me in the back. That said, I definately don't want to be deprived. As a wise philosopher said, and I'm paraprasing: There is probably no life after death, no right or wrong, and you're dead for a real long time. Another philosopher said: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Those with power will try to quash threats to their power, so I try to avoid their wrath and take some of their power by using a paper-thin veneer of compliance. Of course, I'm a visably nervous person to the point random strangers I've never met point that out, so that sometimes puts people off a little, but I try to hide my nervousness and ambition.
 

RadicalDoubt

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Both, BUT...I think freedom from manipulation leads to being able to indulge my desires. I am aware of others feelings and desires but no longer really care about them that much. At one time on the forum, everybody was trying to peg me as a 2, but for me its less about being loved as it is trying to win people over so I can use them as resources. Even then, I don't fully trust the people I "befriend" and am always watching for them to stab me in the back. That said, I definitely don't want to be deprived. As a wise philosopher said, and I'm paraphrasing: There is probably no life after death, no right or wrong, and you're dead for a real long time. Another philosopher said: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Those with power will try to quash threats to their power, so I try to avoid their wrath and take some of their power by using a paper-thin veneer of compliance. Of course, I'm a visably nervous person to the point random strangers I've never met point that out, so that sometimes puts people off a little, but I try to hide my nervousness and ambition.

Ah I see. I'd say that points to 6w7 with a strong 7 wing then rather than 7w6 with a strong 6 wing, I bold faced some of the selling points on that one. I don't see the optimism that's usually associated with 7 core and you seem to have the future focus in terms of preparing for negative possibilities that comes with being a sp 6 core. If you're still unconvinced though, you could always look at the disintegration points of 6 and 7, 3 and 1 respectively, and see which of those fits better.
 

Avocado

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Ah I see. I'd say that points to 6w7 with a strong 7 wing then rather than 7w6 with a strong 6 wing, I bold faced some of the selling points on that one. I don't see the optimism that's usually associated with 7 core and you seem to have the future focus in terms of preparing for negative possibilities that comes with being a sp 6 core. If you're still unconvinced though, you could always look at the disintegration points of 6 and 7, 3 and 1 respectively, and see which of those fits better.
Would a young 6w7 in an unhealthy 1w2 organization look like a 1w2?
 

RadicalDoubt

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Would a young 6w7 in an unhealthy 1w2 organization look like a 1w2?
I guess that would be possible, as long as the individual isn't so blind. 6 and 7 both can appear like 2 in certain respects generally especially with the presence so. Since 6 is a super ego type, it can appear like 1 at times, especially when sp dom because both sp 1 and sp 6 are prone to worry. Unhealthy organizations tend to have weird affects on anyone in them, so I'd imagine anyone in one could appear similar to the group itself. 6 has a tendency to loyalty to begin with, so I could see them taking on the persona of a group to some degree.
 

Avocado

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I guess that would be possible, as long as the individual isn't so blind. 6 and 7 both can appear like 2 in certain respects generally especially with the presence so. Since 6 is a super ego type, it can appear like 1 at times, especially when sp dom because both sp 1 and sp 6 are prone to worry. Unhealthy organizations tend to have weird affects on anyone in them, so I'd imagine anyone in one could appear similar to the group itself. 6 has a tendency to loyalty to begin with, so I could see them taking on the persona of a group to some degree.

I see. That explains a lot of my childhood, then. If I'd stayed in, I would have been a 5th generation Jehovah's Witness, and they have not evolved their attitudes much since the early 1890s, so I grew up as an elitist racist sexist homophobe with those things framed as being purity and righteousness...I often felt bad following the rules, but when I was a younger teenager and starting to lapse a little but still mostly in, I was like "this is mean and unforgiving, I know, but rules are rules, and we have the most accurate view of scripture..."

Even after becoming an Atheist, it took me a good 4 years to really get everything out of my system they put in me and to see that their intepretation of the bible was NOT the most accurate (for example, there are opposite verses to the ones they based their extreme views on).

Of course, even now, I still google them occasionally just to see what they are up to because I still feel connected to them in a way even though I hate the organization and I want to see it fail. They were recently banned in Russia for being too extreme and hurting people. I fear that will play right into their victimhood narrative. Really, the best way to fight them is to ignore them because they feed on negative attention. I would not have done an outright ban.

Of course, now I just look forward to getting in a financial situation to move out of my mother and step-father's house. I try not to set them off, but its like walking on eggshells. I get punched a lot. Especially in the head.
 

Avocado

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[MENTION=33903]Crystal Winter Dream[/MENTION]
 

Avocado

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I see. That explains a lot of my childhood, then. If I'd stayed in, I would have been a 5th generation Jehovah's Witness, and they have not evolved their attitudes much since the early 1890s, so I grew up as an elitist racist sexist homophobe with those things framed as being purity and righteousness...I often felt bad following the rules, but when I was a younger teenager and starting to lapse a little but still mostly in, I was like "this is mean and unforgiving, I know, but rules are rules, and we have the most accurate view of scripture..."

Even after becoming an Atheist, it took me a good 4 years to really get everything out of my system they put in me and to see that their intepretation of the bible was NOT the most accurate (for example, there are opposite verses to the ones they based their extreme views on).

Of course, even now, I still google them occasionally just to see what they are up to because I still feel connected to them in a way even though I hate the organization and I want to see it fail. They were recently banned in Russia for being too extreme and hurting people. I fear that will play right into their victimhood narrative. Really, the best way to fight them is to ignore them because they feed on negative attention. I would not have done an outright ban.

Of course, now I just look forward to getting in a financial situation to move out of my mother and step-father's house. I try not to set them off, but its like walking on eggshells. I get punched a lot. Especially in the head.

I make enough money now between teaching, online sales, and poodle breeding that I own a 3 bedroom house outright and a nice car. I’m now tired and burnt out, yet constantly busy. We live in a universe where we all make our own meanings. Rather than joining a mass movement though, the cause I’ve found solace in is pursuing my own cause. Plus, if I’m really upset, I can stop and cuddle a poodle. Poodles are proper dogs. Some psychic-type performer once said my “spirit animal” was a toy poodle. [MENTION=37663]Borns[/MENTION]
 

I Tonya

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I make enough money now between teaching, online sales, and poodle breeding that I own a 3 bedroom house outright and a nice car. I’m now tired and burnt out, yet constantly busy. We live in a universe where we all make our own meanings. Rather than joining a mass movement though, the cause I’ve found solace in is pursuing my own cause. Plus, if I’m really upset, I can stop and cuddle a poodle. Poodles are proper dogs. Some psychic-type performer once said my “spirit animal” was a toy poodle. [MENTION=37663]Borns[/MENTION]
Right, I won't be worried, you have accomplished at lot. Animals are the best medicine. If you wanna rant II'll listen when a poodle isn't enough.

These are both really good. I was anxious I’d get in trouble for “doing nothing” and I’m anxious about studying and doing well for my tests, and my heart is beating really fast and I feel agitated and I’m a little light headed. Everybody keeps calling me “twitchy and erratic” and that makes worse. I have a feeling something horrible is going to happen and I don’t completely know what it is. Also, I just recently finalized and formalized my decision to pursue teaching instead of a masters of social work, and I can’t shake the feeling I’ve madea horrible mistake. I could have potentially made a little more money doing social work. Part of me though is considering doing medical school prereqs and doing med school or maybe doing law school just to make more money. Central to my being is making as much money as possible so I can afford to take care of any problem that might come up. Occasionally, the constant stress and anxiety gets to me and I give into my pleasures and the things I really want to do, but I regret doing that later because it puts me behind financially. I’m constantly torn between spending and saving: Do I make life better for myself now or do I save money and live frugally now in case everything goes to shit later?

If you feel like this ever again, I beieve you in 100 PERCENT and that you are highly capable of solving any problem that comes your way.
tenor.gif
 

LucieCat

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I see. That explains a lot of my childhood, then. If I'd stayed in, I would have been a 5th generation Jehovah's Witness, and they have not evolved their attitudes much since the early 1890s, so I grew up as an elitist racist sexist homophobe with those things framed as being purity and righteousness...I often felt bad following the rules, but when I was a younger teenager and starting to lapse a little but still mostly in, I was like "this is mean and unforgiving, I know, but rules are rules, and we have the most accurate view of scripture..." Even after becoming an Atheist, it took me a good 4 years to really get everything out of my system they put in me and to see that their intepretation of the bible was NOT the most accurate (for example, there are opposite verses to the ones they based their extreme views on). Of course, even now, I still google them occasionally just to see what they are up to because I still feel connected to them in a way even though I hate the organization and I want to see it fail. They were recently banned in Russia for being too extreme and hurting people. I fear that will play right into their victimhood narrative. Really, the best way to fight them is to ignore them because they feed on negative attention. I would not have done an outright ban. Of course, now I just look forward to getting in a financial situation to move out of my mother and step-father's house. I try not to set them off, but its like walking on eggshells. I get punched a lot. Especially in the head.
It's possible your rejection of the faith you were brought into could be an indicator of being a 6. 6s are sometimes seen as latching onto systems and ideologies, but there's also a flip side where 6s can be skeptical of really any overarching authorities. For me, it's shown up in turning my back on the political paradigm I was raised to believe was the better way because of my inner skepticism towards it.

Albeit, this was fairly easy for me to break from.
My understanding of Jehovah's Witnesses is that it is much harder to separate yourself.
Also, my parents are more moderate than most. They were more aligned with the culture they were because of their background and what was more or less traditional and comfortable. So, they and other people who are dear to me are often quite complicit in what I don't agree with about the ideology by refusing to speak up. And I very much understand that even though I don't like it.

The victim narrative is VERY enticing and a lot of the world is dragged into it. I've often encountered people who claim they are victimized by another group who is at the same time claiming to be victimized by the former. It really makes my head spin.
 

LucieCat

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The way I see it, I just want to explore the world, eat good food, and enjoy good drinks. Self-Preservation 7w6 and 6w7 are both supposed to be nymphomaniacs. I'm demisexual, so I really don't relate to that part, but I otherwise am a flaming hedonist in every other way. The flip side to this you'll like is I don't think I'm special enough to boss other people around or demand things from them, so I support the freedom of others to live as they please, and don't get all moralistic about doing "what's good for them".
I thought I'd chime in on this. There are probably some nymphomaniacs of this type. But it's really too hard to generalize. Everyone is different. I'm a 6w7 sp/so as well as an aromantic asexual with no desire to actually have sexual relationships with anyone. Although, I can feel sexual arousal, it's only been a few times.
 

Peter Deadpan

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Yeah... I have no idea where that nymphomaniac stereotype came from, but it's nothing more than that.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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That nymphomaniac thing caught my eye too. I have a sp 6w7 friend right now who's like SEX IS GROSS AND BORING. So I would be careful about making suppositions--there are a lot of other factors that go into nymphomania. I've certainly never heard this of this on a conceptual level as being part of core 6, or even 7. Actually it sounds like one of those things that The Great One made up XD
 
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