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  1. #1
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    Default Does Sx/So 1w2 look like type 8?

    I'm wondering because while the Sx/So subtype of 1w2 fits my ESTJ mom, she seems pretty 8ish too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    I'm wondering because while the Sx/So subtype of 1w2 fits my ESTJ mom, she seems pretty 8ish too.

    Being an 8w7 yourself you may be more informed in this regard than I am wtf?


    I think a good number of ExTJs will somewhat naturally have a bit of an “8 feel/vibe” to them...but 1s and 8s can both present with a somewhat detectable degree of anger that sits just below the surface with 1s registering with me as being far more frustrated and aggressive...sx 1s most of all which I attribute to the fact 1 is 7s stress point... but I’ve actually read this before. I can’t remember where and subsequently won’t get into it without a source...but I have most definitely read it more than once that sx 1s are some of the most frustrated the enneagram has to offer.

    The way to tell the two apart... Well, again keep in mind that my answers are most likely way biased...but 8s are generally clever, down-to-earth, generous individuals with amazing senses of humor in spite of the underlying anger while 1s can be a bit stingy and righteous. It’s hard to readily laugh I imagine when you are so disgusted by the fact everyone is doing something wrong and need correcting...? 8s focus more on liberty and who is out to exploit and do others harm. While 1s focus their anger more on order/efficiency and who is out to break the rules/do wrong.

    With a 2 wing your mom is also connected to 8 however insignificant that influence may be.
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  3. #3

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    Type One — The Enneagram Institute

    Basic Fear: Of being corrupt/evil, defective
    Basic Desire: To be good, to have integrity, to be balanced
    Enneagram One with a Nine-Wing: "The Idealist"
    Enneagram One with a Two-Wing: "The Advocate"
    Type Eight — The Enneagram Institute

    Basic Fear: Of being harmed or controlled by others
    Basic Desire: To protect themselves (to be in control of their own life
    and destiny)
    Enneagram Eight with a Seven-Wing: "The Maverick"
    Enneagram Eight with a Nine-Wing: "The Bear"
    Fears and desires are very different so you have to decide which is a better fit for her.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    Type One — The Enneagram Institute Type Eight — The Enneagram Institute Fears and desires are very different so you have to decide which is a better fit for her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Being an 8w7 yourself you may be more informed in this regard than I am wtf? I think a good number of ExTJs will somewhat naturally have a bit of an "8 feel/vibe" to them...but 1s and 8s can both present with a somewhat detectable degree of anger that sits just below the surface with 1s registering with me as being far more frustrated and aggressive...sx 1s most of all which I attribute to the fact 1 is 7s stress point... but I've actually read this before. I can't remember where and subsequently won't get into it without a source...but I have most definitely read it more than once that sx 1s are some of the most frustrated the enneagram has to offer. The way to tell the two apart... Well, again keep in mind that my answers are most likely way biased...but 8s are generally clever, down-to-earth, generous individuals with amazing senses of humor in spite of the underlying anger while 1s can be a bit stingy and righteous. It's hard to readily laugh I imagine when you are so disgusted by the fact everyone is doing something wrong and need correcting...? 8s focus more on liberty and who is out to exploit and do others harm. While 1s focus their anger more on order/efficiency and who is out to break the rules/do wrong. With a 2 wing your mom is also connected to 8 however insignificant that influence may be.
    Starry and bechimo, I am changing my type back over to ENFP 7w6 Sp/So since only that type and 6w7 of the same seem to fit me. Also, based on what you two said I can see both in my mom, though. What's interesting is I can see both in my punchy abusive stepfather (he's back, but hopefully I'm moving out in less than a year and I'll be free to sort out my own issues thanks to money), as well...though he has more hang ups. Both have sharp and rigid ideas about efficiency, and are very judgey about how things should be organized and how people should act (which they base on conventionality, religion, an efficiency, in that order)...though my step-father has the tendency to debate challenges to the status quo more with his fists than his words whereas you can talk to my mom a little (though it won't get you very far). She stays so frustrated all the time I bet she'll have a heart attack one day.
    My mom cares in a way or she wouldn't be offering that high paying job to me. That said, she took down all the doors in the house for efficiency and because "you don't need privacy if you have nothing to hide" and she constantly looks through my phone history and internet searches and private things and gets mad if I try to take steps to create privacy for myself. "I have to know everything about you so I can keep you on the right path," she says. It was hard enough admitting I don't support her weird and repressive religion, but now she's found other private things and is trying to pick fights over it. I just want to go off and be alone a while, now. I don't even care about helping the community beyond for money, just get me out of here so I can stew a little, you know? I still have a scar on my wrist from when my step-father started swinging a broken bottle at me and I blocked it.
    I used to have fairly high hopes for creating an ideal world free of suffering, now I see if I can just do well for myself, I'll be doing well. This world is NOT a nice place.
    Also, this promise of money if I can pass this whole "trial by fire" has got me wondering: I'm being handed the money I've been chasing all these years in a fairly undramatic way...is this it? What do I do once I save up some money? Am I consigned to "normalcy"?

    After this last confrontation with my mom a few nights ago, I've about had it...I guess I just need to wait on my release from this situation and see what life is like in less than a year. I've already helped the kids at the school as a Temp, and it seems WAY too good to be true. There has to be SOME drawback here.

    Sorry I got off topic.

    I want to understand my mom better because she is freaking WEIRD sometimes with all her hang ups. Her coworkers love her, though.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    "I have to know everything about you so I can keep you on the right path," she says.
    That's about as unhealthy raging E1 as it gets.

    I'm sorry to hear about your home life and hope you find a way out of this abusive environment soon.
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    Isn’t your Mom big into organized religion? Obviously there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to these things (unless you’re an e1 I suppose?)... but when putting all of the pieces together this would be another tick mark under e1 in my understanding/experience. The theme here is order, tradition, right and wrong, good and evil... a structure that is likely to feel too constricting/controlling/suffocating for the 8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry View Post
    Isn’t your Mom big into organized religion? Obviously there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to these things (unless you’re an e1 I suppose?)... but when putting all of the pieces together this would be another tick mark under e1 in my understanding/experience. The theme here is order, tradition, right and wrong, good and evil... a structure that is likely to feel to constricting/controlling/suffocating for the 8.
    She is into the Jehovah's Witnesses, which is regarded by sociologists and cult experts as a "high control group". She doesn't follow all the rules becuase all of her friends and familiy who were in have either left or have died. My mother's mother shunned my mother for 10 years because she remarried (three times) after my father died and when my mother's mother reported her violation of Kingdom Hall law to the Watchtower Society. A member of the Governing Body reviewed the case and deemed her "an adulterous whore, unworthy of mercy and who should be shunned," so my mother's mother acted like my mom was dead until my mom gave enough money and accepted a ritualistic beating to be accepted back "on probation" 10 years after she was disfellowshipped from the organization. I originally thought my mother didn't report then subsequently shun me out of love, but she later clarified I had merely exploited a loophole: According to Watchtower Law, if a member leaves the religion, they are to be shunned UNLESS they were left unbaptized. Since my mother was judged an adultress, I was considered too impure to join the religion unless I paid enough money and accepted a ritualistic beating, so lucky me, I guess. In theory, there are 3 sources of law for Jehovah's Witnesses, though in practice the Supreme Governing Body of the Faithful and Discreet Slave holds all the power: the first source is the New World Translation of the Bible (which must be intrepeted according to the divine insight Governing Body), the second source are the Watchtower and Awake magazines, and the third source is direct letters from the Governing Body, who hold hereditary power. Its a very rigid, rules-based religion, so its about as "hard and fast" as it gets. There were over 100,000 rules I had to memorize as a child...though I've forgotten most of them from irreverence.

    I came from a very Orwellian world and Privacy and Free Will were not even concepts I considered good until I got more exposure to normal people. The only way to rise in rank in the organization is to be male, convert a certain quota of people into the organization per month, never go to college (as college instills critical thinking), and consistently report rulebreakers within the organization. My mother is in bad standing with the organization because she went to college out of desperation while she was cut off from family. The men she picked all were pretty much all physically abusive deadbeats, but when one would die, it was never long before she found a new one. All my step-fathers except the current one were Jehovah's Witnesses, and this is one of the less consistently abusive ones. My biological father was not a witness, but he was cleared by the organization for marriage because he was showing interest at first. By the time he decided it wasn't for him, my mom had already married him. I take after his curious, skeptical nature, but I'm not as danger-loving as he was.

    @Starry By Jehovah's Witness standards, my mother is pretty impure and rebellious, though she is pretty rigid by everybody else's standards.

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    Overview of Watchtower Beliefs and Practices
    The past, present and future are explained in the following way.

    1. Jehovah is the Father and Almighty God
    2. Jehovah has existed eternally
    3. Jehovah created Jesus and together they created all else
    4. A righteous angel sinned and became Satan
    5. Satan deceived Eve, who deceived Adam, leading to mankind's fall into sin and the cause of human death
    6. Jesus came to earth to die as a Ransom sacrifice so that God could forgive the sins of humankind
    7. With our sins forgiven and the establishment of Jesus as ruler over earth humans will be able to live forever on earth
    8. Jesus began ruling in heaven in 1914 and will very shortly begin ruling over the earth
    9. Prior to taking over ruler of the earth Jesus will destroy all religion, government and commercial systems at Armageddon. Only Jehovah's Witnesses will survive Armageddon

    Key concepts are:

    1. God is not a Trinity. The Father alone is Almighty God, Jesus is his created son and not to be worshipped
    2. We do not have a soul; we are a soul
    3. On death we are unconscious and cease to exist until a future resurrection
    4. Jehovah has permitted wickedness due to a legal obligation to Satan. This is known as the issue of Universal Sovereignty, and directly relates to a humans right to free will
    5. Only 144,000 humans go to heaven to be rulers. Deserving humans will live on earth. The rest of humanity will simply not exist

    Fundamental practices are:

    1. Actively preach, normally door-to-door or beside literature carts, distributing Watchtower publications
    2. Regular meeting attendance - two times a week,
    3. Separation from the world, including refusal to vote, salute the flag, celebrate birthdays, Christmas and Easter
    4. Strict moral code, including no


    • Illegal drugs
    • Gambling
    • Drunkenness
    • Fornication
    • Homosexuality

    For a detailed insight into Jehovah's Witnesses, the official Watchtower Website is jw.org and a balanced overview can be found at Wikipedia.


  9. #9
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    @Starry @Beorn @bechimo @Crystal Winter Dream

    This raises the question, though:
    Is she really an unhealthy Sx/So 1w2, or am I just seeing tgs unhealthy Sx/So subculture around her? I was even more of an unhealthy Sx/So 1w2 than she appears to be until I was 14 or 15, and even then, it took me till I was 20 to stop fearing I was broken or corrupted in some way, as you can remember from my post about wanting to be good.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    Starry and bechimo, I am changing my type back over to ENFP 7w6 Sp/So since only that type and 6w7 of the same seem to fit me.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Wailing Specter View Post
    @Starry @Beorn @bechimo @Crystal Winter Dream

    This raises the question, though:
    Is she really an unhealthy Sx/So 1w2, or am I just seeing tgs unhealthy Sx/So subculture around her? I was even more of an unhealthy Sx/So 1w2 than she appears to be until I was 14 or 15, and even then, it took me till I was 20 to stop fearing I was broken or corrupted in some way, as you can remember from my post about wanting to be good.


    Call me crazy but I suspect you still fear you are broken or corrupt in some way. Why? I'm not sure. If it were up to me I'd attribute my understanding to my profound insight that borders on psychic ability... But I recognize it may have more to do with everything you say in every post you create.


    I don't know what the hell type your Mom is...but your's has always been obvious. Another thing you may not have taken into account is your own negative connection to e1 and how that has corrupted or altered your understanding of your Mom, yourself...and the world around you. From the little I have allowed myself to read on the topic of your Mom...I don't see why she isn't an e1. But I never lose sight of the fact you are a stressed-out, unhealthy 7...and whereas as an sx dom I am more likely to get all "holier than thou" when connecting poorly to 1...you get all "I suck, I'm bad, are you afraid of me?" <-And that makes it all the more tricky to get a true feel for your Mom's type.

    IOW...I'm sure your Mom and your religious upbringing has a lot to do with you worrying about being bad. But it's a destination you would likely arrive at all on your own.
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