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  1. #1
    Junior Member bluejay's Avatar
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    Cool Instincts in Pick Up Artists (PUA) ?

    Something i've been interested in lately is the ennea subtypes of folks in the more hardcore people involved in the 'pick up' community....

    Those that use the techniques to "get laid", but also:

    Subscribe to the whole philosophy of only having sex with the most attractive women they can find, playing multiple (usually) women at the same time et al. And applying a evolutionary biological approach to all life.

    I get a feeling this is extreme SP? or perhaps, SX last.. thoughts?


    It's somewhat morbidly fascinating to me, in the sense that I cannot relate to it all, but like a train wreck I cannot look away....
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  2. #2
    To the waters of the wild Siúil a Rún's Avatar
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    It is an extremely defensive strategy. I can see unhealthy self-protection involved. I wouldn't put it on all SPs though because it has more to do with over compensation for damaged ego issues.
    I wish I was on yonder hill 'tis there I'd sit and cry my fill, And every tear would turn a mill, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I'll sell my rock, I'll sell my reel, I'll sell my only spinning wheel, To buy my love a sword of steel Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I wish, I wish, I wish in vain, I wish I had my heart again, And vainly think I'd not complain, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
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  3. #3
    Junior Member bluejay's Avatar
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    Yes, that makes sense. Defensive is an interesting way to look at it- i'm curious if you could expand on that? from an enneagram perspective. Is it the SP that's 'damaged' (I do stress that I am not blaming, just seeking understanding.. from a 5-ish perspective, haha) do you think? or more, it is actually SX last? a sort of damaged SX?

    Jumping off your thoughts- it's like self Preservation instinct used to understand and manifest the SX instinct, perhaps? a sort of "projection".

    I find the evolutionary dogma merged with attraction quite interesting. Because I have never thought of sex and relationships in that completely biological way. However, I am also female and don't experience relationships the same way other genders do.

    I do think that biological "gender" and ones own masculine/feminine "essence" (as per Deida) influences the instincts.
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  4. #4

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    Pick up artists are horrible people.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hard View Post
    Pick up artists are horrible people.
    Agreed. The time and energy spent on ‘conquering’ a new person every night could be spent pursuing a meaningful relationship with someone. What a cold empty existence.

    To answer the question idk maybe it’s a sx last blind spot thing or a warped sx first thing. In any case they view other human beings as objects to deceive and dominate and it suggests a fear of intimacy and lack of ability to connect to another human being.

    Perhaps you should research recovered PUA’s and gain insight from their transformation.

  6. #6
    To the waters of the wild Siúil a Rún's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejay View Post
    Yes, that makes sense. Defensive is an interesting way to look at it- i'm curious if you could expand on that? from an enneagram perspective. Is it the SP that's 'damaged' (I do stress that I am not blaming, just seeking understanding.. from a 5-ish perspective, haha) do you think? or more, it is actually SX last? a sort of damaged SX?

    Jumping off your thoughts- it's like self Preservation instinct used to understand and manifest the SX instinct, perhaps? a sort of "projection".

    I find the evolutionary dogma merged with attraction quite interesting. Because I have never thought of sex and relationships in that completely biological way. However, I am also female and don't experience relationships the same way other genders do.

    I do think that biological "gender" and ones own masculine/feminine "essence" (as per Deida) influences the instincts.
    I tend to try not to think too much about these sorts of dynamics, but my basic impression is that PUA is designed for people with lower self-esteem, especially in terms of their sexuality, and gives them a way to try to control others to fix it. That is always a very bad formula and doomed for failure psychologically. It is sad that so many people feel a lot of sexual rejection that damages self-worth. It is a complicated issue because it is one of the few things that we do kinda need positive reinforcement from others outside of ourselves to feel. There has to be a better way to help people feel like others are lucky to be with them socially, and to have good self esteem about sexuality and relationships. The problem is that learning to control others, manipulate them, make them also feel badly about themselves, requiring that only acceptance by the most attractive people should bolster our self esteem, etc. is heading down the exactly wrong path and will lower self-esteem in the long run I strongly suspect.

    If they could teach people how to feel good about self as independently of others as possible, that would be a good first step. Then learning how to connect with others without putting pressure on them is a great second step for romantic success. People need to feel the courage to take the risk of trying and not be too devastated by rejection without having to de-humanize the source of rejection. Then people could just imagine what would be the most amazing partner for themselves and try to be that for someone else. Also, the culture as a whole in the U.S. could relax more about sexuality because people are too uptight about it in bizarre ways. As a side-note I think there is a significant correlation between violence and sexual repression in society.

    edit: had to fix some weird autocorrect and typos
    I wish I was on yonder hill 'tis there I'd sit and cry my fill, And every tear would turn a mill, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I'll sell my rock, I'll sell my reel, I'll sell my only spinning wheel, To buy my love a sword of steel Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I wish, I wish, I wish in vain, I wish I had my heart again, And vainly think I'd not complain, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    Likes The Tsarevich liked this post

  7. #7

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    Sx =/= sex. It's about the search for deep intimate connections which is the polar opposite of PUA.
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  8. #8
    Complex paradigm Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    I doubt there is a hardcore correlation and I even doubt that such people are doing it 100% of the time.

  9. #9
    Junior Member bluejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    Sx =/= sex. It's about the search for deep intimate connections which is the polar opposite of PUA.
    Of course not- but Sx is also not explicitly about intimate relationships either, per se. It's like an energetic crucible. That in my current perspective, PUA's can't seem to believe exists. Hence resorting to PUA. That's my current theory and may change.

    But I imagine it's not a hard and fast rule that no Sx firsters or seconders would not be amongst the 'community'... would be interesting to explore those that do. Perhaps a manifestation of an extremely neurotic sx instinct (such as through the use of manipulation or NLP.. which in other ways could also be viewed as So).
    Creation is the only cure.

  10. #10
    Junior Member bluejay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by labyrinthine View Post
    I tend to try not to think too much about these sorts of dynamics, but my basic impression is that PUA is designed for people with lower self-esteem, especially in terms of their sexuality, and gives them a way to try to control others to fix it. That is always a very bad formula and doomed for failure psychologically. It is sad that so many people feel a lot of sexual rejection that damages self-worth. It is a complicated issue because it is one of the few things that we do kinda need positive reinforcement from others outside of ourselves to feel. There has to be a better way to help people feel like others are lucky to be with them socially, and to have good self esteem about sexuality and relationships. The problem is that learning to control others, manipulate them, make them also feel badly about themselves, requiring that only acceptance by the most attractive people should bolster our self esteem, etc. is heading down the exactly wrong path and will lower self-esteem in the long run I strongly suspect.

    If they could teach people how to feel good about self as independently of others as possible, that would be a good first step. Then learning how to connect with others without putting pressure on them is a great second step for romantic success. People need to feel the courage to take the risk of trying and not be too devastated by rejection without having to de-humanize the source of rejection. Then people could just imagine what would be the most amazing partner for themselves and try to be that for someone else. Also, the culture as a whole in the U.S. could relax more about sexuality because people are too uptight about it in bizarre ways. As a side-note I think there is a significant correlation between violence and sexual repression in society.

    edit: had to fix some weird autocorrect and typos
    Very interesting thoughts on violence and sexual repression. Reminds me of Elliot Rodger, who is a manifestation of everything you mentioned.

    "Girls have never seemed to have any interest in me, and I want to know why. I'm such a perfect, beautiful, fabulous guy. I should never have had any problems with girls, but I do, and I find that ridiculous" A quote by Elliot

    I agree, that it is a way to project ones own perceived lack onto others. What that lack includes is self esteem as you mention. But I wonder if they lack self esteem, because they have 'disowned' the part of themselves that understands we relate to each other with our individual shadows, chemistry, and eternal grossness (the things we don't like to admit to each other). So simply being 'nice' is not always a primary part of dating/relationships/sex. Unfortunately because they cannot see this disowned part of themselves, they must manipulate others or seek retribution. It's like they have failed but they can't see the reason why.

    In a way, all instincts do this projecting when unchecked anyway... like SP becoming overly controlling or SO militant against others.
    Creation is the only cure.
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