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  1. #1
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    Default Type 4 instinctual variants

    Hello everyone, i'am new to the forum. I'am an INFP 4w5. The last thing i'am searching now for is instinctual variants.

    I find it very hard since i can seem in some situations to fit into one and in others to be the complete opposite.

    So here is how i see myself about each insincts.

    Social: I don't really relate to the general definition of someone very aware of social situations and actively looking for social interactions. However it is said that type 4 SO are very socially withdrawn, i also relate to social shame and over thinking each false step that i made. Suffering of high functioning autism i make quite alot of mistakes but i'am told to be more aware of social situations than the average aspie. I guess if i was socially gifted i would actually enjoy being around alot of people and part of groups but it actually is very tiring for me. Also (certainly due to Fi) it is important for me to be sure that the group i would be part is 100% compatible with my personal values, so i tend to not quickly participate until i'am fully aware of where the group is leading to.

    Sexual: I relate to the description of being "intense". Again might be due to Fi, but i'am very focused on moral matters, what is right and wrong,.. I'am not someone who joke easily and i tend to over analyse everything. I can be very passionate about subjects i hold dear. I also realised i tend to be more at ease on a head-to-head type conversations than when having to speak to a group of people. In condition that the said person to be intersting and share the same value as me. In the other hand i'am better for formal talking and can be hard to relax and be more intimate.

    Self-Preservation: I am aware of my well being. I care about being healthy. However not to the same degree as some people who tend to be maniacs, very aware of every security issues. Since type 4 SP are called "Dauntless" and said to not care as much as other SP about their safety it is hard to say. I can be dauntless in some situations but not to the degree of being careless and loosing everything or risking my life. Also i'am afraid of living a boring repetitive life, but in the other hand somehow too afraid to take too much risks and tend to wait until everything is sure and calculated before taking a step (strong 5wing).

    Hope that will give this gives enough to help me.


    Thanks

  2. #2
    Member anime_nature's Avatar
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    First of all, I would like to clear up stereotypes of the IV's.

    Social Stereotype: Group work, people person, extrovert all-the-way.
    Actual Social: Know their place in a group setting, cooperative, want to be accepted (only want, so for some types they take this as, "Eh, I'll prefer being accepted" and for others they take it to the extreme)

    Sexual Stereotype: Passionate, black-and-white, jumping from one relationship (including friendships and acquaintances) to another, have no idea how to settle down, all-or-nothing, extreme intensity, wwwwaaaaayyyyyy too into relationships
    Actual Sexual: Passionate (they got that one right), intense (depending on the person), able to have high highs and low lows in a *humanly* possible swing, usually rather have someone that just sticks or slowly fades away (not just pushing them away!) (unless, of course, they're jerks)

    Self-Preservation Stereotype: Selfish, health is greater than overall happiness, not a risk-taker, extremely cautious, quiet and calm, boring, materialistic
    Actual Self-Preservation: Appreciates self (and if they're healthy, then they appreciate others as well), cares for their happiness as well as their physical health, takes risks if they can't die in any way shape or form, cautious but know when to have fun and let loose (at least for healthy ones), only boring, quiet, calm, or materialistic if the person *has* that characteristic that makes up who they are

    Sorry if it's a bit confusing... Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but long story short, so means knowing your place in a group and wanting to be accepted, sx means to have passionate and intense one-on-one relationships, and sp means to take care of their well-being.

    And to answer your question, I feel like you're a sx/sp or sp/sx (Still learning the difference). I feel like your awareness of a social setting could be from your sp, being cautious so it doesn't get into a sticky situation that could damage yourself, also, like you said, due to the high functioning autism. Although just remember, you're a bit of everything. That's being human. There's a 100% guarantee you're going to find something in a type or variant or anything really that's going to relate to you, even if the type seems almost nothing like you.

    Also, it's really late and I'm supposed to be in bed right now. The tiredness might have messed up my mind a bit so if that's the case, just... don't take everything for granted. Take care! Hopefully this was what you were looking for.
    While you're here reading this, yourself 50 years from now will regret it.
    Stop finding the light in this pitch black tunnel. It's probably heaven, hell, your problems stuffed into a vehicle about to ram you, or nothing but darkness. Try something else, like making your own light. You just need enough of the right resources and everything's clearer.
    Yes, you need rain to make a rainbow. But you also need light, and that's hard to forage when clouds fog the world above.
    Likes Kerozen, brainheart liked this post

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thanks for your answer, i really appreciate it!

    I also ended on the Sp/Sx vs Sx/Sp conclusion.

    Well, you are right guess my So awarness is mostly due to be unhealthy, maybe the last instinct messing around.


    I'am wondering how can we differentiate 4 Sp/Sx vs Sx/Sp

    I saw that Sx/Sp also tends to not show much of their Sx while in public and that it is more contained. However Sp/Sx seems to do the same.

    I realised i'am quite agreesive but hold back and try to show a gentle face while in public.

  4. #4
    Member anime_nature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerozen View Post
    Thanks for your answer, i really appreciate it!

    I also ended on the Sp/Sx vs Sx/Sp conclusion.

    Well, you are right guess my So awarness is mostly due to be unhealthy, maybe the last instinct messing around.


    I'am wondering how can we differentiate 4 Sp/Sx vs Sx/Sp

    I saw that Sx/Sp also tends to not show much of their Sx while in public and that it is more contained. However Sp/Sx seems to do the same.

    I realised i'am quite agreesive but hold back and try to show a gentle face while in public.
    Ah shoot! Sorry. I must have forgotten that I didn't reply to this yet. Ack, I need to get out of the habit of thinking "I'll do this later".

    Anyways, I'm glad that you narrowed it down to two choices. Honestly, it's pretty hard to tell those two, especially when half of my school is a sp/so. But, after a bunch of research, I think I found the difference. The dominate stacking is the main concern. When in a social situation, the Sp will think of themselves first, what is best for themselves rather that's physical, emotional, etc. before thinking of the others. When in a social situation, the Sx will think of who to connect with or who can I have the best connection with first before thinking about their social placement or themselves. And I know you don't really need this, but if you were curious, when in a social situation, the So will think of how can I be accepted first before thinking about having an intimate connection or themselves. (I know, so not obvious.)

    If you're still confused, you can read the Type 4 Instinctual Variants (Type 4 Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes)

    Hoped it helped! Again, sorry for not responding. I have a perfection-procrastination problem...
    While you're here reading this, yourself 50 years from now will regret it.
    Stop finding the light in this pitch black tunnel. It's probably heaven, hell, your problems stuffed into a vehicle about to ram you, or nothing but darkness. Try something else, like making your own light. You just need enough of the right resources and everything's clearer.
    Yes, you need rain to make a rainbow. But you also need light, and that's hard to forage when clouds fog the world above.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by anime_nature View Post
    Ah shoot! Sorry. I must have forgotten that I didn't reply to this yet. Ack, I need to get out of the habit of thinking "I'll do this later".

    Anyways, I'm glad that you narrowed it down to two choices. Honestly, it's pretty hard to tell those two, especially when half of my school is a sp/so. But, after a bunch of research, I think I found the difference. The dominate stacking is the main concern. When in a social situation, the Sp will think of themselves first, what is best for themselves rather that's physical, emotional, etc. before thinking of the others. When in a social situation, the Sx will think of who to connect with or who can I have the best connection with first before thinking about their social placement or themselves. And I know you don't really need this, but if you were curious, when in a social situation, the So will think of how can I be accepted first before thinking about having an intimate connection or themselves. (I know, so not obvious.)

    If you're still confused, you can read the Type 4 Instinctual Variants (Type 4 Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes)

    Hoped it helped! Again, sorry for not responding. I have a perfection-procrastination problem...
    Hello, thanks for the answer! And dont worry, i'am the same, see i also respond very late

    The truth is that i can recognise myself in the 3 instincts since i do the three things you described in solcial situations and also can sometimes neglect any of them depending on the mood, situations.

    Here i will write some other observations, if someone could help maybe.

    • Even though i've never been actively searching for a relationship yet, it is something always in my mind, like wondering about possible(and idealised) future relationships. The fact is that i never feel ready, like i'am always in need to improve myself to be ready to live the intense life i dream about.
    • In another way it is like i don't want to find the perferct relation because if so, there would be no more reason to improve myself, nothing new to wait for. Maybe that is why i never actually try to make it happen in real life.
    • I'am very reserved and cold but once very close from seomeone can become very open and intimate(maybe even too much). However when i become intimate i would love to share my inner world with the person to whom i feel close, in the other hand i am generally not very receptive to their inner world and still no matter what feel uncomfortable being included in it.


    As what i have understood is that both instincts are conflicted because they think of Sx but procrasinate it in favor of Sp, Sp/Sx because they really favor Sp and Sx/Sp because they value so much Sx that they never feel secure enough about it... Did i got that right??

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by anime_nature View Post
    Ah shoot! Sorry. I must have forgotten that I didn't reply to this yet. Ack, I need to get out of the habit of thinking "I'll do this later".

    Anyways, I'm glad that you narrowed it down to two choices. Honestly, it's pretty hard to tell those two, especially when half of my school is a sp/so. But, after a bunch of research, I think I found the difference. The dominate stacking is the main concern. When in a social situation, the Sp will think of themselves first, what is best for themselves rather that's physical, emotional, etc. before thinking of the others. When in a social situation, the Sx will think of who to connect with or who can I have the best connection with first before thinking about their social placement or themselves. And I know you don't really need this, but if you were curious, when in a social situation, the So will think of how can I be accepted first before thinking about having an intimate connection or themselves. (I know, so not obvious.)

    If you're still confused, you can read the Type 4 Instinctual Variants (Type 4 Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes)

    Hoped it helped! Again, sorry for not responding. I have a perfection-procrastination problem...
    Hello, thanks for the answer! And dont worry, i'am the same, see i also respond very late

    The truth is that i can recognise myself in the 3 instincts since i do the three things you described in solcial situations and also can sometimes neglect any of them depending on the mood, situations.

    Here i will write some other observations, if someone could help maybe.

    • Even though i've never been actively searching for a relationship yet, it is something always in my mind, like wondering about possible(and idealised) future relationships. The fact is that i never feel ready, like i'am always in need to improve myself to be ready to live the intense life i dream about.
    • In another way it is like i don't want to find the perferct relation because if so, there would be no more reason to improve myself, nothing new to wait for. Maybe that is why i never actually try to make it happen in real life.
    • I'am very reserved and cold but once very close from seomeone can become very open and intimate(maybe even too much). However when i become intimate i would love to share my inner world with the person to whom i feel close, in the other hand i am generally not very receptive to their inner world and still no matter what feel uncomfortable being included in it.


    As what i have understood is that both instincts are conflicted because they think of Sx but procrasinate it in favor of Sp, Sp/Sx because they really favor Sp and Sx/Sp because they value so much Sx that they never feel secure enough about it... Did i got that right??

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by anime_nature View Post
    Ah shoot! Sorry. I must have forgotten that I didn't reply to this yet. Ack, I need to get out of the habit of thinking "I'll do this later".

    Anyways, I'm glad that you narrowed it down to two choices. Honestly, it's pretty hard to tell those two, especially when half of my school is a sp/so. But, after a bunch of research, I think I found the difference. The dominate stacking is the main concern. When in a social situation, the Sp will think of themselves first, what is best for themselves rather that's physical, emotional, etc. before thinking of the others. When in a social situation, the Sx will think of who to connect with or who can I have the best connection with first before thinking about their social placement or themselves. And I know you don't really need this, but if you were curious, when in a social situation, the So will think of how can I be accepted first before thinking about having an intimate connection or themselves. (I know, so not obvious.)

    If you're still confused, you can read the Type 4 Instinctual Variants (Type 4 Enneagram Instinctual Subtypes)

    Hoped it helped! Again, sorry for not responding. I have a perfection-procrastination problem...
    Hello, thanks for the answer! And dont worry, i'am the same, see i also respond very late

    The truth is that i can recognise myself in the 3 instincts since i do the three things you described in solcial situations and also can sometimes neglect any of them depending on the mood, situations.

    Here i will write some other observations, if someone could help maybe.

    • Even though i've never been actively searching for a relationship yet, it is something always in my mind, like wondering about possible(and idealised) future relationships. The fact is that i never feel ready, like i'am always in need to improve myself to be ready to live the intense life i dream about.
    • In another way it is like i don't want to find the perferct relation because if so, there would be no more reason to improve myself, nothing new to wait for. Maybe that is why i never actually try to make it happen in real life.
    • I'am very reserved and cold but once very close from seomeone can become very open and intimate(maybe even too much). However when i become intimate i would love to share my inner world with the person to whom i feel close, in the other hand i am generally not very receptive to their inner world and still no matter what feel uncomfortable being included in it.


    As what i have understood is that both instincts are conflicted because they think of Sx but procrasinate it in favor of Sp, Sp/Sx because they really favor Sp and Sx/Sp because they value so much Sx that they never feel secure enough about it... Did i got that right??

  8. #8
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    I'm a 4sx, and I have no problem speaking in front of 300 people.

    And there are many 4sx performers who've got no trouble speaking in front of even more people.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Venus Rose's Avatar
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    I wouldn't use the Naranjo description (or what people say SX 4s are like, for the most part) to type my instinctual stacking. Because it tends to neglect the fact that there are several types of SX 4s (and other subtypes!) and I have grown weary and somewhat annoyed at the way this is approached.

    Anyways, here are my thoughts on type 4 and SX: I think there are lots of 4s who don't relate the SX 4 description as it usually talked about, as must there be lots of legitimate SO firsts or SP firsts who don't relate to their subtype description. I think 4 SX can be any combination of 1) drawing someone in because of their vulnerability and sadness, and the way they express that (with that intimate and provocative 'personal signature' SX is known for. Provocative as in it elicits a strong involuntary response and the person is either drawn in or not so much. Provocative as in it creates a lasting impression because the speaker is opening themselves up in a personal way.) and 2) latching onto their object of interest as someone who could possibly 'finally understand them' with the envy directed at anyone or anything that triggers their feeling of not being good enough.

    Of course, this is all human, but when it becomes a constant pattern in someone, that is a personality type.

    I don't buy that all Sx 4s are vengeful, angry, want to hurt you, compete with their object of desire, compete with anything and everything (lol...this sounds more like type 3 to me, I will admit. 3 is concerned with outshining others; 4 is simply fixated on what's wrong with them and feeding into that, creating this image and personality structure based around envy. Outshining others? They might or might not care so much about that. They are NOT going to seek love by outshining others, what I mean is that anyone can do that, not related to type 4. Actually type 3 or someone with 3 influence will likely do that. The way type 4 searches for love and understanding means they are fixated on the 'true love - love me with wholly with all of my flaws' part of love. Everyone cares about it but 4s pour an enormous amount of energy into it. With SX added to that, they are extremely sensitive to being undesirable or rejected, in the SX way. It automatically triggers their defense responses which are to dwell in the pain and sorrow, trying to dig into themselves to find what's wrong with them. It sounds 'masochistic' (Naranjo) but it's comforting to them in the sense that this is who they are, they need to be loved, desired, whatever it is they seek - for who they really are - and if people aren't going to love them for it, well then maybe they can't be loved. But there's no satisfaction or authenticity in changing yourself).
    Likes Luminous liked this post

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