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[so] Being so/sx

thoughtlost

Honeyed Water
Joined
May 20, 2013
Messages
745
Enneagram
N/A
If verbal diarrhea is a thing that so/sx, sx/so or just so-first/second people relate to as a hole, then that is cool to know. In real life, among a friend I think is definitely so (problably so-dominant), I can see how being able to contribute verbally can make the person feel comfortable or uncomfortable in some situations. Of course, every enneagram type will still experience it differently (and the friend identifies being a 4w5) so I still need to pay attention to the nuances.
 
Joined
Jul 23, 2016
Messages
432
Enneagram
9w1
It's interesting that people say So is very verbal and either well spoken (So/Sp's mostly) or just very colorful (So/Sx)

It's not that I disagree it's just, I am a fairly quiet and unobtrusive and patient talker and don't really say things without substance. I feel mute at times, like it's a disability more than a personality trait I'd say, but it's still there.

And people have said I am So first because of how I am always thinking about social trends around me and also about how I can fit in without losing my identity.

The one thing that is a trend amongst So firsts that I DON'T relate to however is the interest in the world, politics, pop culture, etc. I find it to be very annoying and a waste of time
 

Snow as White

ƃuıǝǝs | seeing
Joined
Dec 29, 2017
Messages
471
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4w3
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
one of my longest friendships is with an isfp so/sx. i love her but i have had to limit how we interact in some ways simply because eventually every conversation dissolves into her just stream of consciousness relating to me what other people have said to her. people i've never met or will never meet.

my step mother is either so/sp or sp/so. I am sx/sp and it's just so opposite. i feel like when i interact with people who do not have sx in their stack that we are missing something super important!!111111 ie, connection and bonding and inside jokes and giggling. and they don't see anything missing at all. so we just slip past each other and i notice the abyss and find it repulsive/alarming.

so/sx or sx/so i can connect with but will forever be puzzled as to why group things matter so much. if i make plans with my enfj sx/so friend 98/100 times i will discover that me instigating the plans was merely the first granule of sand planted within her clam's shell and that there is now a group dinner with 3-20 other people.
 

Kasper

Diabolical
Joined
May 30, 2008
Messages
11,590
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
It's interesting that people say So is very verbal and either well spoken (So/Sp's mostly) or just very colorful (So/Sx)

It's not that I disagree it's just, I am a fairly quiet and unobtrusive and patient talker and don't really say things without substance.

I'd disagree with it, as a factual all-in statement of "So is very verbal". Verbal is a preference that will not cover all So Doms, in writing I can happily fit the "colourful" description but in person unspoken group contribution is how I feel it, I'm generally quite and reserved despite being an Extrovert. As a 9 So I need to feel as though I've earnt my place in a group so I'll go above and beyond to contribute, quietly in the background, I don't want the attention. "Contribution" to the group is key to look at with So dom, as is mixing the focus of the instinct with the passion of the type.

The one thing that is a trend amongst So firsts that I DON'T relate to however is the interest in the world, politics, pop culture, etc. I find it to be very annoying and a waste of time

There's no one area that So's will have interest in, the innate awareness of social structure and desire to contribute can make those area's interesting to So's, but it's the awareness and desire that are the common point, not the topic/area.
 

Altair

New member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
12
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
279
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I relate to all of this. I'm so bad at maintaning contact, especially as an introvert that reveres her solitude. Some extroverted friends of mine have to "nudge" me, otherwise I also fall off the map.. Lol. I guess it's a bit hard for me to maintain a good balance between the sociable, amiable side while also being reserved, quiet and hardly ever going out.

I'm silly, fun, charming, expressive, humorous. I can also be vocal and blunt if the mood strikes or if I find it appropriate. It's very easy for me to decipher group dynamics and I'm always hyperaware of whether I fit it or not (usually not). At times I tend to get sensitive about not having a group or being left out but it's short-lived and my 4 authenticity / individuality says fxck that and keeps me away from such superficialities.

This is also very accurate for me too
 

Norrsken

self murderer
Joined
Nov 27, 2015
Messages
3,633
MBTI Type
ENFJ
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I think the one great thing about being an So/Sx is that.. life never really feels monotonous to me. For too long, anyway. It's always turning the pages with something different and exciting simply because I connect deeply with others, even if the numbers run small at times. I especially love it when someone bares their souls to me and I just take it in and watch them transform with their own stories. I like deeper talks than the typical small talk, since my Sx runs more intense in my stacking I guess. I would usually need a break afterward but, at least it's nice as it happens.
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
23,552
Turns out I should be in this group.

*Brings donuts*
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,431
Can I clear the air a bit on this Instinctual stuff? [MENTION=4945]EJCC[/MENTION] asked some very good/wise questions, which need to be answered. Instincts is kind of a pet topic of mine, not because I'm an expert, but because I have an unending curiosity around the topic. Instincts is actually a lot more simple than all of these descriptive notions I see spewed all over the Internet. Instinctual stack signifies emotional needs. If one studies Claudio Naranjo, this is pretty clear. In the following the word "need" could be interchanged with "desire" (as these are not always healthy "needs", more like things we believe we "need").

SO - vocal, needs to contribute (usually verbally) to a group dynamic. This manifests in a slightly different way for each core, but the theme maintains.
  • So/Sx - Verbal contribution + depth of connection, need for intimacy and intensity. Lack of need for security, caution or boundaries.
  • So/Sp - Verbal contribution + protection/safety and concern with resources. Lack of desire for depth, intense intimacy.

SP - closed off, needs to ensure (emotional) safety before proceeding. This manifests in a slightly different way for each core, but the theme maintains.
  • Sp/Sx - Need for protection/safety + depth of connection, need for intimacy and intensity. Lack of need to verbally contribute to a group dynamic.
  • Sp/So - Need for protection/safety + verbal contribution to a group dynamic. Lack of desire for depth, intense intimacy.

SX - Intense need for intimacy and depth. This manifests in a slightly different way for each core, but the theme maintains.
  • Sx/Sp - Need for intense intimacy and depth of connection + need for protection/safety. Lack of need to verbally contribute to a group dynamic.
  • Sx/So - Need for intense intimacy and depth of connection + verbal contribution to a group dynamic. Lack of need for security, caution or boundaries.

This stuff is pretty darn straight forward, and very apparent in people if you watch for it. It should be noted that a "first" instinct usually needs to be met before the individual would progress to the auxillory need. The stack is a prioritization of needs.

I made some info graphics on my blog about core specific instincts (according to Naranjo and Ichazo) which can be very helpful, if anyone is interested.

So, what I'm hearing you say is that you do have a need to verbally contribute, hence the "not the best at shutting up" bit. Being So-first isn't about being graceful, or saying the right thing, it's about a natural urge to vocally contribute-- and often this means talking too much, or too readily. Even your comments about thinking over your words and conversations later, feeling like you stuck your foot in your mouth, or that someone probably thinks _________ about you-- that is so the Social instinct. I'm not clear on which Enneagram core type you presently subscribe to, but regardless, you are definitely not SO-last from your description.

I do understand your feelings on that topic, being SO-auxillory myself. I've definitely over-shared, or talked over people and felt so stupid after leaving. That said, my oversharing tends to be also overrly vulnerable/personal which is arguably my Sx blending with the over-verbal of SO. I have also observed this tendency even more that myself in friends who are So-first-- talking over people, always being the first comment or give advice (even if what they say is totally random or off the cuff, the point is to contribute something).

Does that help?

Turns out I should be in this group.

*Brings donuts*

thanks
 

Dreamer

Potential is My Addiction
Joined
Jul 26, 2015
Messages
4,539
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
794
I don’t think I’m quite as the So/Sx descriptions say, meaning I feel like I’m a bit more closed off emotionally than some other So/Sxs might be, but I do still find that intense connection with a few others so gratifying and grounding in a way. It helps me to feel like I am directly connected to the greater scope and perspective of humanity rather than merely an observer of it. I think most of that difference comes from my experiences in my past and not getting caught up in relationships that don’t actually do anything for me, even if they might seem like they do, superficially. I’m much more selective these days than I was growing up, of who I open up emotionally to, and I hold onto the perspective that it’s better to enjoy what I have and cherish it, than to always run about seeking what could be, as that often ends up just being a waste of my energy and time. This perspective hasn’t always been around though, and I’d guess maybe within the last...five years? I started to develop it?

Shoot...I realize this post could just as easily fall into the thread I started about inner conflict of your particular type makeup. I may stick this over there as well :D
 

The Cat

Just a Cat who hangs out at the Crossroads
Staff member
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
23,552
For me:

I spread myself thin, socially. I'm friendly with a whole lot of people, and bad at maintaining contact with many of them, but that doesn't keep me from trying. It's a constant struggle to not completely fall off the map with everyone who isn't in my immediate vicinity.

I'm good at being in small to medium-sized groups. Groups where I can guarantee that I like everybody. I have a hard time being in groups of people where I don't like everybody. When I was younger, I tended to not be a member of any group because I liked to curate my group, only hanging out with the people I liked. The problem was that that wasn't all that sustainable in the long run, because those people had their own groups that they were loyal to -- whereas the only commonality of my group was me.

Needless to say, all the social-first things are true: I view things in terms of groups, hierarchies, power dynamics. I'm pretty stereotypically social-first in that I follow politics pretty closely, I almost feel like I have a moral obligation to know what's going on in the world, and to help out in any way I can (social-first 1 reporting for duty). And sexual-second... it's tough because as a Te-dom I'm not that touchy-feely, but I resonate a lot with sp-last descriptions (I burn myself out on the regular), and I put a lot of energy into my top two love languages (Acts of Service and Quality Time).

I relate to a lot of this especially the first two paragraphs. I'm not a one or a te dom though so its less so for the reasons why, but otherwise pretty spot on.
 

fatgurl

ARMY
Joined
Mar 4, 2021
Messages
489
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sx
I never felt like I have an issue with maintaining close relationships. Actually if a relationship it is not close is not a real relationship for me. So I either have very close friends or just people I came across, but nothing in between.
I remember when I dated my ex, he usually said stuff like; "My friends are your friends too." But I never saw it like that, because if there is a lack connection between me and others, I don't think they are my friends.
When I really want someone to be my friend, I make as much effort as I possibly can to establish a deep bound between us, I don't forget people. And usually I feel like I am comfortable with what I have, with friends that I already have and I don't feel the need to make new ones. I more prone to make an older relationship deeper than to establish a completely new one.

Maybe I am sx first :shrug:

So I relate to all of this except, I have issues maintaining relationships with some people. When I'm not physically around them for extended periods of time I just don't talk to them and have my parents constantly ask about said person who I won't talk to. Meanwhile, there are other people who I'll want to talk to every day and won't forget. Possibly because I feel close to them.
I also find it weird when people call everybody that they talk to their friend. All of these people can't possibly be their friends.
I don't really like going for new friendships either, I like the people I already have as friends and want them in my life forever, and it deeply affects me when I'm no longer friends with one of them.
 
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