How did we become Sx-first?

[Southern Kross]

Thanks for that, it's not the one though. (The one you linked is the same thread I linked in my earlier post. I appreciate your looking for it though.)

It's possible the conversation wasn't with you (and that I'm conflating the one we linked with the other thread), but there was a more in-depth convo about it somewhere. I'm pretty sure it was you, and you'd included an example of what happened when your family went out to dinner one night, and I mentioned my mother as an example-- but there's a good chance it was a tangent in a thread that wasn't even originally about variant instincts.

Guess I should have clicked your link then. How stupid was that?

I remember that vaguely - it was a while ago. It was basically how my Sp/Sx mum argues or complains indiscreetly in restaurant and how uncomfortable and neurotic that makes my dad and I (who are both So/Sp), as we desperately try to hush her. Is that the one you're thinking of?

[cascadeco]

It's an interesting theory. I haven't read all of the posts, but I do know that I think I resented on some level my immediate family's, as well as extended families, lack of a social anything - they weren't really part of 'the community', weren't involved in anything (my dad was, to a degree, in terms of volunteering; however, my family was not Social and I saw, learned, and experienced very little of anything to do with social awareness and interactions; at least, in comparison to many other families. My family was fairly isolated.

I think that I became attuned to social nuances, though I have always viewed my own social abilities and 'place' as kind of stunted due to not feeling I was able to learn anything from my family on that front. I know ins and outs of social nuances, and can navigate them gracefully, but am not necessarily a part of any of them. Or maybe I am I just have this skewed perception of not being so; thus as @Z Buck mentioned, our primary is more of our most stunted one / one we're hyper-aware of / focused on, to the point of it probably being counterproductive, especially if not kept in check / if not aware of it.

My mom is probably sp/sx, and my dad is either an sp/so or an so/sp. The key to my family though is extreme introversion / self-sufficiency. ^@Southern Kross, my mom caused my father and I (and brother, who is quite certainly sp/so) anxiety whenever she vented similarly in public places. In fact, to the point that I strongly believe my own focus on these sorts of things is a conscious effort at a young age to NOT be like my mom. lolz. I have succeeded in some respects and failed in others.

[Z Buck McFate]

I remember that vaguely - it was a while ago. It was basically how my Sp/Sx mum argues or complains indiscreetly in restaurant and how uncomfortable and neurotic that makes my dad and I (who are both So/Sp), as we desperately try to hush her. Is that the one you're thinking of?

That sounds about right- all I remember for sure is that it had to do with this topic (possibly being a certain instinct variant dominant because of childhood/family) and you'd (I think it was you) used an example of going out to dinner.

**

And to answer the op (which I never really did), I really have no clue what my parents are. I *think* my mom is so dom, but I'm not entirely sure. She seems to thrive on knowing absolutely everything about everyone who crosses her path- and then about everyone related to that person, and everyone else those relatives might possibly know- that suggests so dominant to me. If she is, (as @Starry said) it would make sense to me that I never developed those skills because I never felt that need- that need was always already taken care of before I even began to feel a deficit in that direction. I'm not certain that's why I'm least so variant, but it's a plausible theory to be sure.

[Southern Kross]

OK, I found it for real this time, @Z Buck McFate.

This is the post about my family - the other stuff follows afterwards.

EDIT: Here's the link to Z buck's actual relevant comment within the thread. I posted it below as well.

Your story about the focus being on the surrounding people (and how it contrasted to my experience) triggered interest because it brought to mind something I’d read before about how our dominant instinct drive is actually dominant as a compensation for the lack of that need being met initially. Having a mother that focused on filling the social needs enabled me to take that one for granted, and so it makes sense that I’d feel an unconscious preoccupation with filling the need that wasn’t being filled around me. I just don’t feel any anxiety about the kinds of things that give so variant people anxiety because I didn’t grow up with any sense of scarcity in that regard- yet individuals didn’t matter, and that presented its own scarcity that I became sensitive to. Although it’s not quite so clean cut as that, because it doesn’t especially explain how siblings would have different instinct variants, it’s interesting to consider because it probably does deserve *some* merit. Maybe it seems like “unnecessary (and maybe even self-indulgent) grandstanding about your opinions/feelings/rights” because so variant doms could take that for granted (and so the notion of a scarcity of it wouldn’t be threatening or cause anxiety….yet feelings of not being part of the bigger group do?).

It’s funny, sometimes I do feel the weight of the consequences of being least so variant- because my mother is no longer a factor of daily life, those needs (networking and such) are not being met and so it’s a serious inconvenience at times to be least so variant…..a serious inconvenience. But I have an inordinately difficult time in-the-moment focusing on making so variant needs a priority. It’s incredibly taxing to me. I only feel the negative consequences of not attending to it in retrospect.

[Z Buck McFate]

^Woman's got the skills! That was a pretty helpful convo, thanks for finding it.

[Southern Kross]

My mom is probably sp/sx, and my dad is either an sp/so or an so/sp. The key to my family though is extreme introversion / self-sufficiency. ^@Southern Kross, my mom caused my father and I (and brother, who is quite certainly sp/so) anxiety whenever she vented similarly in public places. In fact, to the point that I strongly believe my own focus on these sorts of things is a conscious effort at a young age to NOT be like my mom. lolz. I have succeeded in some respects and failed in others.

Oh, I'm so with you there. I put a significant amount of effort into avoiding ending up with my mother's flaws. It's not that her flaws are more numerous or worse than others' - it's just that they represent everything I don't want to be.

[Entropic]

I don't know my dad's instinct but I think my stepmom is sp/(sx). Grandma is possibly so/sp. I don't think any of them have had any bearing on my instincts. The only event in my life that points towards the development and thus neurosis surrounding sx is the death of my mother.

As for the other two, I am not sure if I would say I felt that my sp needs were met either, as my stepmom's sp neurosis made it so that the family's sp needs were treated very neurotically which developed into extreme material hoarding and possession, but only for her. The rest of us suffered a fair bit as it would go so far as to ration food during family dinner, even though our family wasn't poor enough to actually struggle with feeding us properly. It also made her into an extreme pennypincher and refusal to share her possessions with the family, which meant that she could buy cheap as fuck clothing for us, while lavishly spending on high quality for herself and tell us that we can buy our own shit when we make our own money like her. In other words, she was extremely hypocritical in this way. I often felt a lot of anger towards the obvious unfair treatment that she exposed the rest of us to, because how the fuck am I supposed to buy my own shit when I'm a kid without a job, lol. It doesn't mean I want to feel deprived just because she happened to be deprived as a child and she can't leave that mentality behind and treats the world as if we are still deprived and she has to hoard and hoard and hoard or she won't survive. She would even do silly things like tell us to shower maximum 10 minutes and not wait for the water to run hot (took maybe 10 seconds like wtf?) because it wastes too much water and money to heat the water. Dare you shower 15 minutes, what a waste! As sp last personally, what matters more to me is to make sure that whatever experience you have is as meaningful as possible and that our lives aren't so full of just doing things because it gives us the shit. Having lots of money in the bank isn't what is going to fulfill us, because possessions are so empty in themselves. So yeah, you can buy whatever you want but it doesn't mean it will make you happy because what will you do once you get that object you wanted? Buy a new one? How does that contribute to a meaningful and fulfilled life? Our meaning is found in our relationships with people and the world we interact with, not in the stuff we own. The stuff we own don't define us, personally. The girlfriend is an sx/sp and she cares a bit for material possession in this way, and it's probably one of our biggest sources of disagreement lol. She wants a high-paying job so she can buy whatever she wants (also doesn't help that her society and family values that) and I don't understand the purpose of that. I'm happy with the money I have as long as I got food on the table and I can spend it on pleasurable things from time to time. That's all it means to me. Money itself means jack.

I was also fairly socially ostracized as a child which could have led to the development of a social neurosis to a degree, but I am not sure. The only real defining moment in my life where I can say it totally made me such is the death of my mom. Everything else that happened to me simply pales in comparison.

[small.wonder]

It's an interesting theory. I haven't read all of the posts, but I do know that I think I resented on some level my immediate family's, as well as extended families, lack of a social anything - they weren't really part of 'the community', weren't involved in anything...

Woah, yes. ^ So funny, I think I was so fixated with my first instinct, I forgot about my auxiliary, but it rings true in the same fashion! I can so rate to this, specifically b/c my parents are are both So-last! It also explains why my brother is So/Sx (when I'm the inverse). So fascinating!

In fact, to the point that I strongly believe my own focus on these sorts of things is a conscious effort at a young age to NOT be like my mom. lolz. I have succeeded in some respects and failed in others.

Also very much resonate with the bolded, but I do think that's kind of a 4 thing (the way we respond to our parents). Honestly I did it with both of mine, rejecting both of their personalities deliberately (because they just felt wrong).

[cascadeco]

Woah, yes. ^ So funny, I think I was so fixated with my first instinct, I forgot about my auxiliary, but it rings true in the same fashion! I can so rate to this, specifically b/c my parents are are both So-last! It also explains why my brother is So/Sx (when I'm the inverse). So fascinating!

Ah, interesting and cool. I think there may be trends with your theory, for sure, maybe in a bell curve sort of way, though I think a lot of other factors will play into things. Like, for me, I feel like though I also lacked a lot of sx presence in my family (I think the bulk of my family is sx-last, with exception of my mother), and feel I lacked a lot of the intimacy elements growing up, I still think I'm probably sx-last. I'm thinking while nurture certainly plays a part in all of this, there's also probably an engrained element to our instincts? I mean, I feel I lacked sx-ness in my surroundings, but I ended up sx-last. I guess for me, I didn't feel a large lacking/absence of it -- its lack at the time didn't impact me profoundly? -- thus I didn't fixate on it? Vs with you, you lacked it, but it's something you sorely lacked/noticed.

Also very much resonate with the bolded, but I do think that's kind of a 4 thing (the way we respond to our parents). Honestly I did it with both of mine, rejecting both of their personalities deliberately (because they just felt wrong).

Yes, I think I did it to a degree with my father as well, as a teenager at least. Perhaps it is more of a 4 thing, I really don't know. The rejection element started to fade in my 20's, though, same with my mother. To be honest, and this may point more towards my father being an so-dom like me, I found his social nicety elements really annoying growing up -- and you know they often say we're annoyed with what we see in ourselves. Whereas my reaction to my moms' tendencies weren't of annoyance, it was more embarrassment, and like I said, my wanting to be way more socially aware than she was/is.

[The Tsarevich]

God, I have no idea how it happened.

I have heard that self pres is formed by early difficult circumstances, social is formed by having many caretakers, and sexual is formed by having ONE very closely-connecting parent. This would certainly be true in my case. Still, my sister is social, and basically didn't have any caretakers (they ignored her rather horribly, particularly my mother).

I'm inclined to think it's inborn, but I'm fatalistic that way.

I put that my mom is sp/sx and my dad is soc/sx, but the instincts may be flipped in either case. Damned if I know.