[sx] The other side of SX

[Zarathustra]

so sx 7s are the least sexual 7s?

i see what you mean about the spiritualization of sex, and do identify with that feeling. i don't know if that makes us less sexual though. that kind of intimacy and full expression is a huge priority of mine, and results in me feeling like a very sexual person. just because it's not carnal sexuality, doesn't mean it's not sexuality. i would think that other variants would have less of a focus on it (although i can see the sp angle, i still question how much comparative weight this particular need has in the sp sphere).

Ok, yeah, that's fair.

When I was saying "sexual" there, I was referring to the "more physical side of sex".

I'm pretty sure my ESFP ex was 7w8 sp/so, and she was very much into the physical side of sex.

So much so that I was the one wishing it was a bit more spiritual/romantic (and I like the physical side of sex).

We had our moments, but her default state seemed much more dialed to "sex is a fun and pleasurable physical act".

Also, what they say is, because of this default setting, sp 7s are the 7s most prone to going out and looking for casual sex.

Sx 7s, otoh (and let's add female in there), are much less likely to do so, as they sort of disdain such behavior as "trivializing sex".

 

[AzulEyes]

I could definetely see both as valid explanations. In fact, I think the possibility that they're working in conjunction is even stronger.
The 6 wing makes for a pure head type, so maybe they're more likely to be less anchored in their bodies and have a "fantastical" view of sex, emphasizing mental connection more than the dirty, animalistic parts?

If I'm correct in assuming [MENTION=15728]AzulEyes[/MENTION] is female, all three of you ENFP's who consider sex to be more sacred are female and 7w6. Although [MENTION=17131]Beyonce[/MENTION] didn't explicitly state what attitude he holds, I'm guessing he's leaning more towards my view on it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]'s input would be appreciated as well.

I suspect the ENFP girl I knew was like a 6w7 or 2w3 (sx) or something. She's one of those women who's timid and insecure on the surface, but just beneath it is a warrior amazon who knows exactly what she wants. And she definetely was very assertive about her desire to just be taken, and thought of sex as something earthy and carnal. Other than that, she was your typical scatterbrained, bizarre, head-in-the-clouds ENFP.

Female- confirmed
Azul

 

[five sounds]

Ok, yeah, that's fair.

When I was saying "sexual" there, I was referring to the "more physical side of sex".

I'm pretty sure my ESFP ex was 7w8 sp/so, and she was very much into the physical side of sex.

So much so that I was the one wishing it was a bit more spiritual/romantic (and I like the physical side of sex).

We had our moments, but her default state seemed much more dialed to "sex is a fun and pleasurable physical act".

Also, what they say is, because of this default setting, sp 7s are the 7s most prone to going out and looking for casual sex.

Sx 7s, otoh (and let's add female in there), are much less likely to do so, as they sort of disdain such behavior as "trivializing sex".

*firm handshake*

i can see that.

[MENTION=11809]unsung[/MENTION], do you know your instinctual variant?

 

[AzulEyes]

Your morals are not universal - they're relative. Stripping/having sex for money is her (or his, let's not forget the man) choice and doesn't affect anyone else, so I would stop pushing your subjective beliefs onto other people.

Stating my very real- whether subjective or not- morals is being me. I will not be oppressed of sharing and stating my very real beliefs to accomodate porn stars.

 

[HongDou]

Stating my very real- whether subjective or not- morals is being me. I will not be oppressed of sharing and stating my very real beliefs to accomodate porn stars.

As long as you agree a porn star is not amoral universally just because you think so.

 

[Zarathustra]

As long as you agree a porn star is not amoral universally just because you think so.

I think you might benefit from looking at morality in a less "black or white" fashion, Chandler.

You may have seen me mention on here that there are three main ways of looking at truth.

Well, there are also three main ways of looking at ethics/morality:

- Aristotelian
- Kantian
- and Utilitarian

The black and white "is or is not moral/immoral" construction you are using is Kantian.

By contrast, I recommend you consider adding a little Aristotelian flavor into your understanding of ethics/morality.

How noble is it to have sex for money, or on tape, or strip for singles, or give lapdances for twenties?

I'm not saying there are no exceptions, but, for the most part, I don't think they are particularly noble.

 

[HongDou]

I think you might benefit from looking at morality in a less "black or white" fashion, Chandler.

You may have seen me mention on here that there are three main ways of looking at truth.

Well, there are also three main ways of looking at ethics/morality:

- Aristotelian
- Kantian
- and Utilitarian

The black and white "is or is not moral/immoral" construction you are using is Kantian.

By contrast, I recommend you consider adding a little Aristotelian flavor into your understanding of ethics/morality.

How noble is it to have sex for money, or on tape, or strip for singles, or give lapdances for twenties?

I'm not saying there are no exceptions, but, for the most part, I don't think they are particularly noble.

I don't really care whether something is noble or not. What's considered noble, even though there are tendencies among the majority of people's opinions, is still up to the individual's opinion.

A porn star should be ashamed because it's not "noble" just seems like a guilt trip to me. If it's her decision and she's happy with her choices, I think she should rock on. Using what's considered noble or not to try to restrict people is what kept women (and men in other respects) so constricted to specific roles and voices in the past.

Not that I have any qualms with people making their own decisions based on whether or not they consider it noble, of value, etc. I don't have sex until I'm in a committed relationship. That's what I consider noble in my own personal bubble. But if someone has another idea of what's noble to them, I'm not really gonna judge them.

But you're right that looking at different perspectives can enrich one's life, I've actually already read about Aristotle and Kant in my humanities class. Maybe I'll do some of my own research as well though just to keep on my toes.

 

[Hive]

[MENTION=11809]unsung[/MENTION]

My observations are basically what you've been pointing to: ESFPs are far more carnal and into the purely physical side of sex (let's call it "sex as sport") n whereas ENFPs tend to be far more spiritual about sex, and almost have a sort of disdain for the purely physical side of sex. I'm not saying it lines up 1:1, but I've seen too many corroborating points of evidence to not say it's a tendency.

That being said, I have seen ENFPs who were more into the purely physical side of sex, one was an 8, and I believe the other was a 2. In part because of this different orientation towards sex than I see in most other ENFPs, I still hold out that either one might have been an ESFP. But I think they both were indeed ENFPs.

I think the male vs female divide is considerable. As they say: "men are visual creatures". I just had an ENFP buddy of mine in town, and he definitely talks of sex in a typical "man way". At the same time, tho, he's very physically awkward, so, well, at least in the past (less so now, I suppose), the idea of him actually sexually satisfying/ravishing a woman seemed... unlikely.

Yeah, that's what you'd intuitively guess about the ENFP/ESFP differences in sexual attitude.

Do you know how many of the ENFP's you're talking about were male/female, and can you discern a pattern from their E-type, wing and instincts? What's your male friend's type?

Because of the different views on sex between me and other ENFP 7's, I suspect gender, wing and instincts can play a pretty big role.

Another thing to note: all the ENFPs who have expressed this sentiment are sx 7s, and all the theorists say that that subtype romanticize sex and relationships to such a significant degree, it's like they look to the heavens when it comes to romance, and anything less than that ideal is not fully satisfying. As such, of the three subtypes of 7, they are actually considered the least sexual (with sp 7s taking that mantle).

I think that's very possible with 7w6, a pure head type prone to fantastical thinking. I suspect an 8 wing would bring a stronger sense of realism and physical rootedness, as well as a lustier disposition.


[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION]

I always typed as Sx, which makes the contrast between myself and you other sexual ENFP's interesting.

 

[HongDou]

If I'm correct in assuming [MENTION=15728]AzulEyes[/MENTION] is female, all three of you ENFP's who consider sex to be more sacred are female and 7w6. Although [MENTION=17131]Beyonce[/MENTION] didn't explicitly state what attitude he holds, I'm guessing he's leaning more towards my view on it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) [MENTION=10082]Starry[/MENTION]'s input would be appreciated as well.

What's your attitude on sex?

I kind of explained it to Z in my latest response to him above.

I don't have sex until I'm in a committed relationship, because I believe that that's not really something I can share with just anyone. When I say have sex, I mean going all the way btw. I hook up with other guys occasionally/frequently, but I never go all the way. A little graphic, but I'm not prepared to just let any guy that wants to get inside me get inside me. To me, it's more personal and romantic than that. And I think we can all agree that intensely romantic and cosmic merging, what have you, kinds of sex is generally more hotter than just going into the physical act of it to satisfy your needs. But I think even in a relationship with someone, you can have both kinds of sex depending on the circumstances. I mean, sometimes the latter one that's less hot can be preferable at times. If my SO expected me to be intensely romantic with him all the time, he's whack haha. Sometimes being casual about it is also a good thing in a relationship, since you can be comfortable around each other and not always incredibly cheesy and dramatic about it. So basically my view is both are really good, romantic sex is preferable but casual is also good for certain circumstances. As long as the spark doesn't die, I'm satisfied. If it does I might get too bored with that person.

But yeah, now I've finally (somewhat) contributed to the OP, as a so/sx 7w6.

 

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, that's what you'd intuitively guess about the ENFP/ESFP differences in sexual attitude.

Do you know how many of the ENFP's you're talking about were male/female, and can you discern a pattern from their E-type, wing and instincts?

If I didn't mention them being male, they were female.

8s are lustier, and more appreciative of the physical side of things
2s are lustier
4s are lusty, but still in a more romanticized way

What's your male friend's type?

793 sx, I believe

Not sure about wing, but I'd probably side with 6

Because of the different views on sex between me and other ENFP 7's, I suspect gender, wing and instincts can play a pretty big role.

Agree

I think that's very possible with 7w6, a pure head type prone to fantastical thinking. I suspect an 8 wing would bring a stronger sense of realism and physical rootedness, as well as a lustier disposition.

Yeah, I would agree

 

[Lady_X]

I'm an ENFP male, and I definetely think of sex as something carnal and "basic instinct" rather than spiritual and holy.

I would agree that ESFP's more often have an exuberant sexuality and are probably more focused on the purely physical aspect of sex.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. In fact, if any attitude regarding sex has puzzled me, it's the "let's make slow love on a bed of rose petals until we achieve unity with the cosmos" thing.

I've met some animalistic ENFP's, though. One ENFP chick I knew was very vocal about the dissatisfaction she had with her boyfriend who insisted on making love to her, rather than just fuck her.

[MENTION=8413]Zarathustra[/MENTION], what are your observations on the differences between ENFP's and ESFP's attitudes on sex?

-

Regarding porn... I don't see anything inherently wrong with it. But with all the scumbags and broken individuals involved in it, the porn industry is a filthy business in more ways than one.

it's possible you're missing the meaning...

it's not about rose petals...it's about what it means, what it is that you're expressing.

 

[Lady_X]

[MENTION=11809]unsung[/MENTION]

My observations are basically what you've been pointing to: ESFPs are far more carnal and into the purely physical side of sex (let's call it "sex as sport") n whereas ENFPs tend to be far more spiritual about sex, and almost have a sort of disdain for the purely physical side of sex. I'm not saying it lines up 1:1, but I've seen too many corroborating points of evidence to not say it's a tendency.

That being said, I have seen ENFPs who were more into the purely physical side of sex, one was an 8, and I believe the other was a 2. In part because of this different orientation towards sex than I see in most other ENFPs, I still hold out that either one might have been an ESFP. But I think they both were indeed ENFPs.

I think the male vs female divide is considerable. As they say: "men are visual creatures". I just had an ENFP buddy of mine in town, and he definitely talks of sex in a typical "man way". At the same time, tho, he's very physically awkward, so, well, at least in the past (less so now, I suppose), the idea of him actually sexually satisfying/ravishing a woman seemed... unlikely.

Another thing to note: all the ENFPs who have expressed this sentiment are sx 7s, and all the theorists say that that subtype romanticize sex and relationships to such a significant degree, it's like they look to the heavens when it comes to romance, and anything less than that ideal is not fully satisfying. As such, of the three subtypes of 7, they are actually considered the least sexual (with sp 7s taking that mantle).

yeah yeah but a type 7 sx chic who's crazy about you can express it in that lustful kind of way...it's just that what's driving that is the trust and emotional connection/ bond rather than purely physical. imo

 

[five sounds]

yeah yeah but a type 7 sx chic who's crazy about you can express it in that lustful kind of way...it's just that what's driving that is the trust and emotional connection/ bond rather than purely physical. imo

Totally.

 

[Zarathustra]

yeah yeah but a type 7 sx chic who's crazy about you can express it in that lustful kind of way...it's just that what's driving that is the trust and emotional connection/ bond rather than purely physical. imo

Agreed.

It does end up taking on a very different character, tho, than the more physical side of things.

I actually very much like the 7 sx idea, but I would like to have that along with some "sex for sport" thrown in.

It's kind of like Chandler said: the romance and drama is important, but not all the fucking time. (no pun intended)

 

[Lady_X]

Agreed.

It does end up taking on a very different character, tho, than the more physical side of things.

I actually very much like the 7 sx idea, but I would like to have that along with some "sex for sport" thrown in.

It's kind of like Chandler said: the romance and drama is important, but not all the fucking time. (no pun intended)

i disagree.
[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] don't you feel like it can be random sex for fun too...when you're with the husband? it's not like an "event" every time.

 

[five sounds]

i disagree.
[MENTION=18819]five sounds[/MENTION] don't you feel like it can be random sex for fun too...when you're with the husband? it's not like an "event" every time.

yeah, i enjoy playful sex in a loving relationship. i'm not always all serious about it.

 

[Lady_X]

yeah, i enjoy playful sex in a loving relationship. i'm not always all serious about it.

right exactly...playful is a great word for it.

 

[HongDou]

right exactly...playful is a great word for it.

Yes!! Playful sex is so fun. Sorry I shouldn't be saying this around you sis haha

 

[Lady_X]

Yes!! Playful sex is so fun. Sorry I shouldn't be saying this around you sis haha

if i havvve to be made aware that my lil brother's having sex than playful is the least troubling haha

 

[Hive]

What's your attitude on sex?

I think of it as more lusty, primal, instinctual, physical, what have you, in contrast with the other ENFP's in here who seem to consider it more spiritual, holy and mental merging.

I don't see it as just selfish gratification, though. It's about satisfying lust, yes, but also being physically attuned to each other, losing inhibition and letting basic instinct rule you. Just completely submitting to your own and your partner's lust and being totally present in the moment. It's about connection for me too, just not emotional, but on a more basic level, which doesn't necessarily require sex with a long time partner. (Even though having sex with someone you know well makes it way easier to be comfortable and attuned to their desire.) I also realize that this could be the kind of idealized sex Sx 7's are prone too, just my 7w8 version, lol.

Words escape me when trying to pinpoint it exactly, but hopefully you understand what I'm getting at.

If I didn't mention them being male, they were female.

8s are lustier, and more appreciative of the physical side of things
2s are lustier
4s are lusty, but still in a more romanticized way



793 sx, I believe

Not sure about wing, but I'd probably side with 6



Agree



Yeah, I would agree

Thanks. This more or less aligns with what I was thinking.

it's possible you're missing the meaning...

it's not about rose petals...it's about what it means, what it is that you're expressing.

Yeah, I didn't mean it literally. I was just trying to portray "typical ENFP sex" as more of an emotional, love making kind of thing.