• You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have access to additional post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), view blogs, respond to polls, upload content, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free, so please join our community today! Just click here to register. You should turn your Ad Blocker off for this site or certain features may not work properly. If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us by clicking here.

[sx] The other side of SX

lue

New member
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
111
Does anyone have any experience with the "negative" side of SX? I think I read somewhere that it can also be a complete rejection of intimacy/attraction, ie. being repulsed by it.

If so, what was your experience with that? And how did you work your way out of it?
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
[MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION] might know.
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,053
MBTI Type
NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I know about it.

I can be so anti-sexual-first that I originally assumed I was sx-last. I do everything I can to repress my sx-first needs from consciousness, and other people have suggested I'm sx-last as well. I'm not, I'm just virulently anti-sexual-first.

For me, it's not so much that I "avoid" intimacy as I am in total denial that I could ever need such a thing. Relationships are for wimps, I have no sexual needs, and you should really get a room. PDA-indulgers should be shot. I don't CARE about your homosexual agenda. Etc. So, I thought sx-last since I have such an adverse reaction to this stuff.

Later, though, I began to see how much my life really has been dictated by wandering, experimentation, and me following my own individual passions; how readily I overlooked my physical and social needs; how obsessive with my interests I truly am. Then I read something about how sx-firsts are painfully aware of the "attractiveness/sexual desirability" scale in any given situation; how they envy those with better relationship-building capacities and those who are higher on the "hierarchy"; how this can cause self-esteem issues and envious torment...and thus I saw the handwriting on the walls. My neurosis was pegged!

It was like pouring alcohol on a wound--pretty much my entire life, I've been stuck thinking I'm some sort of hideously undesirable thing, painfully aware of how I came out on the bottom of every hierarchy, how no one would ever want me, and otherwise creating a self-fulfilling prophecy. Yet I HAD to suppress this from conscious thought--and certainly from the people around me--because doing otherwise would bring too much pain, inferiority, and shame to the surface. I did this by virulent rejection and adamant hatred of everything listed under most sx-first descriptions. Then I'd go home and dwell upon why I was so deprived and my life so unfair. But no one ever saw this; indeed they thought I was a man-hating prude.

Generally, then, the "anti" part revolves around sexual/desirability issues, but can also revolve around intense experiences and who gets to hang out with awesome people. I HATE people who got a better tale to tell about life than I do (vain, much?) and feel less-than by comparison. I resent it when the "awesome" people all get taken by folks more awesome than me. So, I can swing around being very avoidant toward areas where I feel my experiences aren't up to snuff or I'm sure I'll be rejected by the awesome folks (Note: NOT necessarily the popular folks), similarly to how I do with the prior issues. "I didn't need that junk anyway!"

My self esteem really does rest on me being desirable, having intense experiences to share, and being able to interact with those I find extraordinary in some way. If I am denied that, I take it out on myself and avoid these situations to avoid further exposing my shameful lack of instinctfulness.

I wish I could give advice on how I "worked my way out of it", but it's more or less my Big Issue in life, and I doubt it will ever be gotten over, especially now that I'm 30+. This isn't something I do "in a bad mood", this is a permanent orientation. ( I'm always slightly skeptical of people saying "I'm social-first cause I get, like, really anti-social when I'm unhealthy". Sure you do, kid. That's called being PISSED OFF DURING A BAD MOOD.) A warped instinct is extremely painful and, as near as I can tell, not all that easy to work out.
 

lue

New member
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
111
you should really get a room.
Yes. Ew.

me following my own individual passions; how readily I overlooked my physical and social needs; how obsessive with my interests I truly am. Then I read something about how sx-firsts are painfully aware of the "attractiveness/sexual desirability" scale in any given situation; how they envy those with better relationship-building capacities and those who are higher on the "hierarchy";

Yes to all this. Sidebar: I've been trying to figure out my heart fix. At first I thought 3w4, but now I'm thinking 4w3 because my need for uniqueness and individuality is stronger than my need for success. But the whole envy thing doesn't sit well for me, and I read Beatrice Chestnut's sexual 4 description and I was just like :shrug:, I can't relate and that's not pretty at all. But, I was repulsed at first by my 9 as well.

Generally, then, the "anti" part revolves around sexual/desirability issues

Yep. I'm not around too many people, so that other factor doesn't really affect me. But when I see anything relating to sexuality or desirability, all I can think about is germs. I am repulsed by it.

This isn't something I do "in a bad mood", this is a permanent orientation. ( I'm always slightly skeptical of people saying "I'm social-first cause I get, like, really anti-social when I'm unhealthy". Sure you do, kid. That's called being PISSED OFF DURING A BAD MOOD.) A warped instinct is extremely painful and, as near as I can tell, not all that easy to work out.

Well, you might be skeptical of me because it's not a permanent orientation for me, I wasn't like this in the past. I think it has something to do with my health-level (it's been almost two years of being like this).
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

Give me a fourth dot.
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
1,053
MBTI Type
NeTi
Enneagram
478
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Well, you might be skeptical of me because it's not a permanent orientation for me, I wasn't like this in the past. I think it has something to do with my health-level (it's been almost two years of being like this).
In my case, it had to do with the opposite sex telling me I was ugly and disgusting for many years...overall health level was reasonably OK.

My feeling is they are separate, because I've recently undergone extreme crises that have left me struggling not to become truly clinically "unhealthy", and the sx-first issues have died back in the cynicism of my own mindset. I think if I were put in a familiar position, though, they would revert to the same. But I see unhealth and instinctual neurosis as two different things in my own case.
 

five sounds

MyPeeSmellsLikeCoffee247
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
5,393
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
729
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
i am really put off by the over-sexualization of things. i've experienced some shame about my sexuality, or for having sexual desires and needs, partially because i see sex as something beautiful and natural that is so often exploited and defiled. it has made me feel uncomfortable about sharing my own sexuality for fear of it being warped into something else once it's out there. or worse, fear that i'm using it in such a way.

as i've grown older, i'm much more comfortable with my own sexuality, and am happy to see what i perceive as healthy expressions of sexuality and love between others. glamorized sex in the media still really gets me, and i still feel sensitive to the topic in general. it's something important to me, so i can have intense reactions both ways about it.
 

Tomb1

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
994
the sexual instinct sometimes gets thrown in there with intimacy. same for the social instinct and socializing. intimacy pertains more to the feeling center imo, not sx..type two's approach to seduction is very forthright in their desire for intimacy since they pull the most from that center. the more out of touch a person is with the feeling center the more ruthless they get in the area of their instinctual variant...sx gets reckless and aggressive...more provocative in their desire to destroy the status quo...competitiveness and exhibitionism the sx-instinct is laced with a more destructive edge.
 

AzulEyes

New member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
622
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
i am really put off by the over-sexualization of things. i've experienced some shame about my sexuality, or for having sexual desires and needs, partially because i see sex as something beautiful and natural that is so often exploited and defiled. it has made me feel uncomfortable about sharing my own sexuality for fear of it being warped into something else once it's out there. or worse, fear that i'm using it in such a way.

as i've grown older, i'm much more comfortable with my own sexuality, and am happy to see what i perceive as healthy expressions of sexuality and love between others. glamorized sex in the media still really gets me, and i still feel sensitive to the topic in general. it's something important to me, so i can have intense reactions both ways about it.

I agree with the oversexualization in the media- essentially- people ruin a good thing. I try to avoid it where I can though it is difficult. Growing older only served to enhance my stable sexual image of myself and how I view my sexuality. I think there is a lot to be said about keeping your sex life private and leaving an air of mystery. I don't need to compete with some broad who decided to strip naked in front of a camera and perform sex acts like a trained monkey- sorry- that is pretty much what modern porn has come down to. It's a sacred experience between two people that is unique to them- and simply not comparable.
 

lue

New member
Joined
May 2, 2014
Messages
111
[MENTION=18576]Sanjuro[/MENTION] Yeah, it's possible that the variant and health are separate for me as well. But it seems it's become even more warped during my unhealthy times. Warped and non-existent, I have no desire for one to one connection.

i am really put off by the over-sexualization of things.
I can relate to this.

the negative side of sx is recklessness and aggression
Yeah, but those are already considered characteristics of sx I think. Do you mean more of it? I was talking about the opposite of how the instinct is usually described or experienced. For example, not scanning the room for a spark, or being repulsed by it?

the more out of touch a person is with the feeling center the more ruthless they will be in the area of their instinctual variant
Why do you say this?

rejection of intimacy nuancing the way they interact in those different instinctual arenas.
This makes sense to me.
 
W

WhoCares

Guest
I am SX to the point where I suspect I lack any other stacking. For me it has always meant that if my connections with others aren't 'complete' as in all encompassing,pure, momentous, amazing, unique then I drop any connection at all. I feel an overwhelming need for even friendships to be some rare and precious thing. Heaven help anyone who destroys any such connection with me by failing to be infallible. :mad:

In other words it leads me into super ridiculous expectations of perfection, and to be totally unforgiving of people as they are. Consequently I live a life completely cut off from society as I cannot find a way to accept human nature for what it is. My satisfaction in life now comes from creating things of value (that changes every week) but I've come to the conclusion that sitting on the magnetic pole of human connections with its constant oush and pull is too crazy making most of the time.

Relationship wise all of them have started intensely then crashed a burned when I experienced disappointment in others. Yes, yes don't lecture me about the problem being me etc. I am only too aware, which is why I live seperate from society with as fleeting and little contact with others as possible. Everyday for me is an exercise in anger as I witness people being crap, trying to manipulate, gain advantage and cheat each other. Its as if humans have nothing better to do than be shit to each other. :bored:
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
I agree with the oversexualization in the media- essentially- people ruin a good thing. I try to avoid it where I can though it is difficult. Growing older only served to enhance my stable sexual image of myself and how I view my sexuality. I think there is a lot to be said about keeping your sex life private and leaving an air of mystery. I don't need to compete with some broad who decided to strip naked in front of a camera and perform sex acts like a trained monkey- sorry- that is pretty much what modern porn has come down to. It's a sacred experience between two people that is unique to them- and simply not comparable.

I don't think people should be condemned for what they decide to do with their body just because there are people out there with different ideas of what sex is.
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
it's like this super sacred thing that i feel compelled to protect...like it pains me something serious to think about girls feeling pressured or expected to be all sexual at such a young age....like..i guess you'd say i'm almost prudish about it. like...i would so not have ever been a free lovin hippy chic. i'm turned off by the concept of porn and strip clubs...like i think it's completely unsexy and sad.

it's sort of an issue...
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
ITT, it becomes glaringly obvious how differently ENFPs and ESFPs view sex
 

Zarathustra

Let Go Of Your Team
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
8,110
Am I the ESFP? :D

I actually wasn't referring to any specific ESFP in-thread, just reflecting on my prior knowledge.

That being said, I did take note of the conflict.

I didn't want to just jump to that conclusion, as that's way too little information to base a judgment off of.

It could be because your male, or other factors.

That being said, tho, I have no major lean for you on ENFP vs ESFP.

You could very well be an ESFP, and, as of yet, I would have no significant qualms with it.

I wouldn't necessarily change your typing, either, tho; I would remain just open-minded about it.
 

AzulEyes

New member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Messages
622
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w6
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
I don't think people should be condemned for what they decide to do with their body just because there are people out there with different ideas of what sex is.

Having sex for money / in front of a camera for the entire planet to see- is amoral. Morals are not popular currently. It's more politically correct these days to support and defend the behavior of a porn star than someone like me who condemns the behavior.
 

HongDou

navigating
Joined
Nov 23, 2012
Messages
5,191
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
so/sx
Having sex for money / in front of a camera for the entire planet to see- is amoral. Morals are not popular currently. It's more politically correct these days to support and defend the behavior of a porn star than someone like me who condemns the behavior.

Your morals are not universal - they're relative. Stripping/having sex for money is her (or his, let's not forget the man) choice and doesn't affect anyone else, so I would stop pushing your subjective beliefs onto other people. :rolleyes:
 

Starry

Active member
Joined
May 22, 2010
Messages
6,103
Your morals are not universal - they're relative. Stripping/having sex for money is her (or his, let's not forget the man) choice and doesn't affect anyone else, so I would stop pushing your subjective beliefs onto other people. :rolleyes:


I just sat here for the longest time trying to figure out what it was I wanted to say here (I've had a really long day haha) and whenever I get tired like this my concern is even moreso that I'm not making much sense. I agree with you here though. I can't bring myself to judge what has been described. I do wonder though how big this industry would be if people truly had the time and resources to nurture themselves and their relationships. I really do wonder how much of this stems from being so disconnected from who we are as individuals as well as each other. I always wonder about that.
 
Top