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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Instinctual Variants in 9s

Raindrops

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
3
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
I've been studying the enneagram obsessively lately, but I still can't figure out my instinctual variants. I feel like I am dominant in all of them and deficient in all of them at the same time. I think it's because I'm a type 9; I relate to everything! :huh:

I'm also really confused about how sx manifests itself in 9s. The descriptions of sx-lasts sound a lot like the characteristics of unhealthy 9s. Here's a description I found:
"subvert the fiery energy. Tamping down the fire. Procrastinate, don’t honor your passion, hard to act on the passion—postpone. Avoid anything stimulating. Inertia. Fear of being a boring person and amazed that someone wants to spend time with you. Afraid of having no juice."

I experience some of the things above, especially the procrastination, inertia, and fearing that I am boring, yet I'm not sure if I'm really an sx last because I do tend to chase after intensity. I'm drawn towards things and people I feel will make me passionate because I feel like I am completely lacking in passion. I'm attracted to larger than life personalities and over- the top art, but I am far from over the top or larger than life. I am even-keeled but love the melodramatic. When I first discovered the enneagram I reeeaaally wanted to be a 4 because it just sounded like the most appealing type to me. I'm a paradox!

So what does this mean? Am I an sx last looking to fill the things I feel deficient in, or are these just typical 9ish traits and I'm completely misunderstanding instinctual variants?
 
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011235813

Guest
Those are pretty typical traits for average-to-unhealthy 9s, yeah. Since you say you do seek out intensity of experience or emotion, it seems unlikely you're sx-last.

Scroll to the end of this page for more information on how the various instinctual stackings pan out in e9. They don't necessarily manifest themselves in exactly the same way as they do for other types.
 

CheshireCat

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Oct 20, 2013
Messages
82
MBTI Type
GOO
Enneagram
954
I'm not sure if this will help or confuse your more, but I found it interesting :D

11:17
 

Raindrops

New member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
3
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
I'm not sure if this will help or confuse your more, but I found it interesting :D

Very interesting, thanks for the links! I find it fascinating that the sx 9 is described as a "dispassionate wallflower" and "invisible". It seems contradictory with most sx descriptions, but maybe that's what I am after all. I can really relate to the feeling of needing to suck in the energy of someone or something else, because I feel that energy lacking in myself and it feels like a big black void inside of me. I idealize everything except myself and try to become something outside of myself to find meaning and purpose.

I found the SO description really relatable too!
 

CheshireCat

New member
Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
82
MBTI Type
GOO
Enneagram
954
Very interesting, thanks for the links! I find it fascinating that the sx 9 is described as a "dispassionate wallflower" and "invisible". It seems contradictory with most sx descriptions, but maybe that's what I am after all. I can really relate to the feeling of needing to suck in the energy of someone or something else, because I feel that energy lacking in myself and it feels like a big black void inside of me. I idealize everything except myself and try to become something outside of myself to find meaning and purpose.

I found the SO description really relatable too!

He has refreshing insights into the different types and their instincts.

I didn't really relate to the description of the Self Preservation nine...It took a lot of investigative work to conclude I was an SP. That's partly because, securing a partner is a part of the SP instinct. Without one, you are anxious. You will find upon researching the manifestations of instinct, that an anxious SP seeking a partner will act with it's SX instinct. That is they will pursue others until they secure a partner... then once the partner is secure, the SX simmers down and isn't so invasive. I actually relate very well with the SX instinct of the nine :) Though it is my instinctual "blind spot". :shock: Of course, the intensity of wanting to merge is hard not to notice compared to the tameness of comfort seeking. It took me some unbiased investigative work to figure it out. I have been in a 5 year relationship when my eye didn't wander at all, I was 100% committed. Then on the flip side to that, I've been in a very unsatisfying 3-year-relationship that I was constantly day-dreaming about finding someone else to merge with.

lol. I spent a good while in the bath tub last night reading some in-depth articles about instinctual variations.... which is why I have so much to say :p

I wish you well on your journey of self-discovery :bye:
 
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011235813

Guest
Very interesting, thanks for the links! I find it fascinating that the sx 9 is described as a "dispassionate wallflower" and "invisible". It seems contradictory with most sx descriptions, but maybe that's what I am after all. I can really relate to the feeling of needing to suck in the energy of someone or something else, because I feel that energy lacking in myself and it feels like a big black void inside of me. I idealize everything except myself and try to become something outside of myself to find meaning and purpose.

I found the SO description really relatable too!

Feeling the need to feed vampirically on someone's energy to satisfy your own inner void sounds very sx/sp. sx/so's typically vibe lighter, intense but more like a beam of piercing sunshine than cold nocturnal sx/sp thirst.
 

CheshireCat

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Oct 20, 2013
Messages
82
MBTI Type
GOO
Enneagram
954
Feeling the need to feed vampirically on someone's energy to satisfy your own inner void sounds very sx/sp. sx/so's typically vibe lighter, intense but more like a beam of piercing sunshine than cold nocturnal sx/sp thirst.

You seem pretty confident in your knowledge. How did you come to the conclusion on your instinctual variants? How did you relate?
 
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011235813

Guest
You seem pretty confident in your knowledge. How did you come to the conclusion on your instinctual variants? How did you relate?

It's a combination of reading about them on various websites (e.g. here and here) and identifying patterns of vibe and behavior in different people, both here and IRL.

One system divides the variants into various realms of being. This is all based on subjective vibe and aura; but it does ring true for me, and many people seem to agree that it resonates with them as well. Here they are:

sp/so (animals) = practical cooperation ~ revering the work of the harvest, the beasts of the field, the ‘fat of the land’
so/sx (humans) = multifaceted/multidirectional attraction ~ the radiant festival of the four corners of the Earth
sx/sp (hungry ghosts) = urgent bonding / ‘unfortunate’ belonging ~ the perpetually orthogonal embrace of the seeker/searcher
sx/so (gods) = cultural revolutionary ~ attractive social catalyst, steering popular culture/the arts/the cultural zeitgeist in a new direction
so/sp (titans) = culture warrior ~ social change by force and/or eternal/higher principle, the lightning thundering ‘voice of God’
sp/sx (Hell) = acultural solipsism ~ counterculture original, underbelly exposure, brooding mysterian, the fermenting underground

I relate well to the sp/sx description. It actually solidified my understanding of why I was testing so consistently as a 4 even though I'm not actually a 4, nor have 4 anywhere in my tritype. It also explains some off-hand comments I get from so/sx and sx/so friends and family (my 2w1 so/sx mom routinely calls me "vampiric" and "anti-life" :laugh:).
 

Raindrops

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Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
3
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
I've actually been able to identify the instinctual variants of some friends and loved ones with a fair amount of certainty, but yet I still have trouble with mine! Typical 9 for ya. :doh: I've found that I tend to get along really well with so/sx, sp/so, and sx/sp. Have a lot of trouble with so/sp... I don't really have any enemies per say, but I think most of the people who have really rubbed me the wrong way have been of this stacking... I'm not sure why.

I also test as a 4!
 

CheshireCat

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Joined
Oct 20, 2013
Messages
82
MBTI Type
GOO
Enneagram
954
It's a combination of reading about them on various websites (e.g. here and here) and identifying patterns of vibe and behavior in different people, both here and IRL.
Thanks for these resources. They were quite illuminating.

I relate well to the sp/sx description. It actually solidified my understanding of why I was testing so consistently as a 4 even though I'm not actually a 4, nor have 4 anywhere in my tritype. It also explains some off-hand comments I get from so/sx and sx/so friends and family (my 2w1 so/sx mom routinely calls me "vampiric" and "anti-life" :laugh:).
I see. It is a good idea to consider the perceptions of others towards me into this equation. lol.

Ive determined my variants based on past experience, though I fear that might have been erroneous. It's become glaringly obvious that I have a SO blind spot. That me engaging in others is quite erratic, I'm either pouring a lot of energy into it (and boy is it ungraceful!) or I am very shut-off; quiet and receptive. Self preservation is a definite concern... Reading in that second source it mentions anxiety caused by lack of fulfilling the primary need would cause one to focus on the secondary need. Now, I'm not too fond of reading, but the turbulence of my shitty marriage inspired me to read over a dozen books about health and diet. I was quite engrossed in that endeavor... Makes me think of SX/SP, because my passion for self preservation interests were born out of frustrated needs... Before I ever had a relationship I was just floundering around like a mopey teenager, having crushes on tv characters, and admiring people from afar (desperately wishing for something *magical* to happen, lol).... But I don't think I could rightfully rule out SP/SX, because ... I just couldn't.

Anything in here screaming one variant over the other?
 
0

011235813

Guest
Thanks for these resources. They were quite illuminating.

I see. It is a good idea to consider the perceptions of others towards me into this equation. lol.

Ive determined my variants based on past experience, though I fear that might have been erroneous. It's become glaringly obvious that I have a SO blind spot. That me engaging in others is quite erratic, I'm either pouring a lot of energy into it (and boy is it ungraceful!) or I am very shut-off; quiet and receptive. Self preservation is a definite concern... Reading in that second source it mentions anxiety caused by lack of fulfilling the primary need would cause one to focus on the secondary need. Now, I'm not too fond of reading, but the turbulence of my shitty marriage inspired me to read over a dozen books about health and diet. I was quite engrossed in that endeavor... Makes me think of SX/SP, because my passion for self preservation interests were born out of frustrated needs... Before I ever had a relationship I was just floundering around like a mopey teenager, having crushes on tv characters, and admiring people from afar (desperately wishing for something *magical* to happen, lol).... But I don't think I could rightfully rule out SP/SX, because ... I just couldn't.

Anything in here screaming one variant over the other?

Could be either, really. Neither one is jumping out at me yet.
Which of these descriptions do you identify more with?

This subtype is self-effacing also, but is generally more assertive. They may be the subtype of Nine which is most aware of the boundaries between themselves and others and at the same time, possibly the most frustrated when those boundaries are violated. They can be aware of being walked over and they might even be aware of the anger it causes, but they become frustrated with their seeming inability to control this pattern. This is true, to some degree, of all Nines, but with the self-pres/sexual instinctual stacking, there seems to be a complex and interesting balance between the withdrawing energy caused by the dominant self-pres instinct and the assertive energy of the sexual instinct. This combination seems to raise consciousness of this dynamic.

Getting healthy for this subtype, and for all Nines, involves becoming aware of this dynamic and realizing they do have the power to control their boundaries. Part of this must come from the realization on the part of the Nine that they have invited this overstepping of their boundaries from others by not defining them.
Close relationships will usually work or not for this subtype depending on how well they deal with this issue.

The energy of the sexual instinct is at odds with the dominant type Nine energy and makes for a conflicted subtype. These Nines can appear to have a stronger connection to Three, for this reason. The assertive fiery energy engages in a constant push-pull with the calm peace-seeking energy of the Nine. This subtype can have an intense relationship with their environment. They are often drawn to solo sports or to an active engagement with nature that involves some risk and exertion. These Nines are drawn to peak experiences. They might enjoy outdoor solo sports or engaging in nature by way of hiking, rock climbing etc.

With the social instinct last in the stacking, there can be an on/off quality when it comes to relating and these Nines are often somewhat moodier than the other subtypes. As with the self-pres/sexual, this subtype might not engage socially with the same smoothness as other subtypes of Nine. They seem to go towards others in a staccato fashion – they connect in bursts, then withdraw.

When it comes to intimate relationships, this subtype can be needy. The merging of the Nine combines with the intensity of the sexual instinct to create a subtype that will always be in danger of losing themselves in a relationship. Their boundaries for themselves and their partner can become blurred which can lead to conflicts. This subtype might have a hard time judging clearly the degree to which they have merged.
 

CheshireCat

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Oct 20, 2013
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82
MBTI Type
GOO
Enneagram
954
Which of these descriptions do you identify more with?

Well I can relate to the top one for sure. Yet, I'm wondering if I just got frustrated because my past relationships were iffy >.> I do like acknowledging boundaries. I wouldn't say it's assertive exactly... Being walked over is upsetting at times. I feel like I'm always aware of it, and I let it happen. It is upsetting at times, but it's like... I'll do whatever has to be done to get me in the position of getting away from you so I don't have to deal with you.

Now the second one, I love hiking, tree climbing, swimming, and I'd definitely go rock climbing. Definitely not a smooth talker. I ask questions and people are like :huh:. Sometimes I keep on dishing out words, other times all it takes is one misunderstanding and I'm instantly done talking. Definitely needy and have a hard time judging how much I've merged... So I guess there's more confidence in my relation to the second one.

Thank you, I appreciate you walking me through that :p

EDIT: This is perfect
"These 9s can sit around and have long conversations with people they hardly know in the strangest places and lose themselves in ripples only the 9 is aware of." I cannot say how many times this has happened. And the first conversation is always the easiest... any following conversation is dreaded and avoided. Unless, I fancy that person of course.
 
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