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[so] The Social 4; How stereotypical are they?

S

Stansmith

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The 4 most people envision is the social last or sexual dominant (there seems to be an Sp and/or Sx bias in the way most types in general are described on here), but what does a Social dominant 4 look like? Are they more (reluctantly) conformist?
 

Chad of the OttomanEmpire

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I believe my sister is a soc-4.

I can't attest as to how "stereotypical" she is (according to what standard??), but I didn't really realize she was a 4 till she a) told me she was, and b) went to a therapist due to her apparently tormenting emotions.

To me, she was a quiet, sweet little girl with a good sense of humor--I thought she was a 9 or 2. She utterly lacks the over-the-top melodrama of which I personally was capable. She's good at making friends--people like her and are attracted to her. She's always got 'em; I dunno how she does that. She really liked emo as a teen, and hung out with other emoists (if I may coin a word).

That's about all I know about her--not exactly conformist, but not totally independent in her tastes either. And yes, a bit stereotypical. And a bit not.
 

SD45T-2

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This sounds like a job for [MENTION=8046]ayoitsStepho[/MENTION].
 

Southern Kross

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The 4 most people envision is the social last or sexual dominant (there seems to be an Sp and/or Sx bias in the way most types in general are described on here), but what does a Social dominant 4 look like? Are they more (reluctantly) conformist?
I think you're right that they're not what people particularly have in mind when they think of a 4. But I would say the 4-ness still gives off a Sx quality regardless; in Social dominant 4s it's just a little more muted.

I wouldn't say I'm conformist. As a child and a teenager I functioned more within the bounds of what was relatively commonplace (eg. with music, fashion etc) . I didn't attach myself to or like certain things simply because everyone else did; I had my own tastes and choices, but I wasn't all that experimental and outside the box about them. As an adult I'm a lot more expansive in my tastes. I've spent more time consciously examining what interests me and doing a lot more exploring.

I think I can edit myself a little better than Sp or Sx dominant 4s - I can be more relatable and adaptable. I wouldn't say I fit in better (I'm not really good at this), but I don't stick out like a sore thumb - not as much as So-lasts (not to say this is a bad thing). I aim to be true to myself without drawing too much attention to my differences.

I'm probably more cautious about and avoidant of social interaction too.
 
B

brainheart

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The 4 most people envision is the social last or sexual dominant (there seems to be an Sp and/or Sx bias in the way most types in general are described on here), but what does a Social dominant 4 look like? Are they more (reluctantly) conformist?

Interesting. I think the self pres four is the least stereotypical four. Social four seems very fourish to me, the type encapsulates the frustration of "I'm so different, what's wrong with me?" more than the self pres and sexual four. I think there can be this desire to be like others, to be 'normal', but they know they can't be, no matter how they try. I think it can make the social four feel especially disconnected and lonely.

I think most fours that you see out in society (the famous fours), be they artists/ musicians/ novelists have social in the top two of their stacking. I think this has to do with their social focus- they tend to write/sing/create about socially relevant topics, so they are more widely relatable. (But you may be right as far as this forum goes.)
 

HongDou

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I think social fours would use society as their main means of defining themselves. The so instinct sort of accentuates the whole "I'm not like everyone else" sorta thing because the social four would primarily look at everyone else in the first place. So by defining themselves as outside of society, they're connected to society because their exclusion is their way of seeing themselves in terms of the system. And with the four's desire to define their individuality clashing with the social instinct's desire for inclusion and acceptance, the whole melancholy and drama of the four is emphasized as well. I've come to see my 4w3 friend as so/sp rather than sp/so for this reason.

I agree with [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION] that sp is probably the least stereotypical four. It's actually listed as the four's countertype in this description:

The SP Four is someone who does not suffer out loud, does not complain, is relatively autonomous, and who makes a virtue out of enduring pain without wincing. These Fours are tougher Fours, more masochistic than melodramatic. These are also Oneish Fours – stoic, austere, and self-disciplined individuals who challenge themselves to achieve rather than engage in longing.
 

Sunny Ghost

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I think you're right that they're not what people particularly have in mind when they think of a 4. But I would say the 4-ness still gives off a Sx quality regardless; in Social dominant 4s it's just a little more muted.

I wouldn't say I'm conformist. As a child and a teenager I functioned more within the bounds of what was relatively commonplace (eg. with music, fashion etc) . I didn't attach myself to or like certain things simply because everyone else did; I had my own tastes and choices, but I wasn't all that experimental and outside the box about them. As an adult I'm a lot more expansive in my tastes. I've spent more time consciously examining what interests me and doing a lot more exploring.

I think I can edit myself a little better than Sp or Sx dominant 4s - I can be more relatable and adaptable. I wouldn't say I fit in better (I'm not really good at this), but I don't stick out like a sore thumb - not as much as So-lasts (not to say this is a bad thing). I aim to be true to myself without drawing too much attention to my differences.

I'm probably more cautious about and avoidant of social interaction too.


Interesting. I think the self pres four is the least stereotypical four. Social four seems very fourish to me, the type encapsulates the frustration of "I'm so different, what's wrong with me?" more than the self pres and sexual four. I think there can be this desire to be like others, to be 'normal', but they know they can't be, no matter how they try. I think it can make the social four feel especially disconnected and lonely.

I think most fours that you see out in society (the famous fours), be they artists/ musicians/ novelists have social in the top two of their stacking. I think this has to do with their social focus- they tend to write/sing/create about socially relevant topics, so they are more widely relatable. (But you may be right as far as this forum goes.)


I think social fours would use society as their main means of defining themselves. The so instinct sort of accentuates the whole "I'm not like everyone else" sorta thing because the social four would primarily look at everyone else in the first place. So by defining themselves as outside of society, they're connected to society because their exclusion is their way of seeing themselves in terms of the system. And with the four's desire to define their individuality clashing with the social instinct's desire for inclusion and acceptance, the whole melancholy and drama of the four is emphasized as well. I've come to see my 4w3 friend as so/sp rather than sp/so for this reason.

I agree with [MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION] that sp is probably the least stereotypical four. It's actually listed as the four's countertype in this description:

These descriptions are making me rethink my variant stackings. I've actually been getting the feeling recently that I'm less SX than I previously thought. That, or I've simply changed. I used to be a lot more intense and quite socially retarded. But now I feel much more SP and SO. I'm not sure in what order. I definitely don't feel as much of the SX as I once did. Perhaps it's because I'm single?? IDK. I do know that I worry about what others think of me and attempt to 'fit in' in a way.

The thing is, I've met other 4's and they are usually more apt to say, "I'm not like other people." Whereas, I want to scream at them and say, "NO! You are! Everyone feels abnormal!" But I have my moments where I wonder to myself, "Why don't I seem to fit in? Am I not cool enough? Funny enough? Interesting? Am I too self absorbed?" But to state 'I'm not like the others' goes against my beliefs as well, because I don't believe there is a 'normal'. Abnormal is normal.

Sorry if I'm going on and on at the moment. I was actually going to start a thread on the same topic before running across this one. But I'm just so confused about these instincts. I am prone to the one person audience thing that SX does. I'm very aware of attraction and tension or lack there of between myself and others. But, I'm also conscious of 'norms' and hate standing out of the crowd. I'm very adaptable and know what is appropriate for different situations. I know how to sell myself for a job position. I almost feel as though I jump between SO and SX, by muting myself when in the public realm.
 

SD45T-2

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Paging [MENTION=9273]Vasilisa[/MENTION]
 
B

brainheart

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[MENTION=10131]IndyAnnaJoan[/MENTION], instincts are tricky for sure.

What helped me to figure out I was social last is-

1. comparing myself to the social 4w5 I'm close friends with. He is so self conscious in comparison to me. He is always monitoring people's reactions to him- he puts a lot of weight on other's approval, like it or not. He also has this awareness and interest as to what is going on in popular culture- music, movies, world events- and posts his opinions on social media. Being the outsider tortures him. I am a lot less aware/ concerned about these things than he is. I really do tend to live in my own little bubble.

2. Being married to a social dom and realizing that most of our disagreements center on him being irritated by my lack of social awareness and my being irritated by his need to constantly stay in touch with the social realm.

I think instincts can fluctuate, by the way, but you'll always have a home base. I think your last instinct will be the one that you have to force yourself to pay attention to. It feels like work, while the first will be the one that feels like a compulsion. The second is the one you can moderate the easiest.
 

Sunny Ghost

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[MENTION=10131]IndyAnnaJoan[/MENTION], instincts are tricky for sure.

What helped me to figure out I was social last is-

1. comparing myself to the social 4w5 I'm close friends with. He is so self conscious in comparison to me. He is always monitoring people's reactions to him- he puts a lot of weight on other's approval, like it or not. He also has this awareness and interest as to what is going on in popular culture- music, movies, world events- and posts his opinions on social media. Being the outsider tortures him. I am a lot less aware/ concerned about these things than he is. I really do tend to live in my own little bubble.

2. Being married to a social dom and realizing that most of our disagreements center on him being irritated by my lack of social awareness and my being irritated by his need to constantly stay in touch with the social realm.

I think instincts can fluctuate, by the way, but you'll always have a home base. I think your last instinct will be the one that you have to force yourself to pay attention to. It feels like work, while the first will be the one that feels like a compulsion. The second is the one you can moderate the easiest.

Thanks Brainheart.

I think I am more SO than SX. But I'm positive I used to be SX and then woke up one day SO.

Would Social 4's still have a degree a the SX tension? I am definitely aware of chemistry between myself and others and will either feed on it or feel uncomfortable if the sexual tension isn't also felt on my end. This even goes for people I have no interest in dating whatsoever. I recall reading somewhere once about how SX types tend to pick out one person in the crowd that they see as their audience. Whereas SO types don't.
 

hjgbujhghg

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I am a social 4w3. I wouldn't say I am a comforist, but I for sure care more what other's think about my look, or behavior and my need to be accepted by others holds me back from doing a lot of crazy expressive things as usual 4 would do. But my needs for attention and appreciation make me be more expressive with my style and outside look, or behavior. It's like the combination of originality and staying true with socially accepted outcomes.
 
B

brainheart

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Thanks Brainheart.

I think I am more SO than SX. But I'm positive I used to be SX and then woke up one day SO.

Would Social 4's still have a degree a the SX tension? I am definitely aware of chemistry between myself and others and will either feed on it or feel uncomfortable if the sexual tension isn't also felt on my end. This even goes for people I have no interest in dating whatsoever. I recall reading somewhere once about how SX types tend to pick out one person in the crowd that they see as their audience. Whereas SO types don't.

I think you should read the stuff that [MENTION=10496]skylights[/MENTION] has been writing about being a so/sx. It's pretty enlightening.
 

Sunny Ghost

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I feel like I can relate to all three though. I definitely have SP in my instincts. I'm very concerned with my comfort. Having a cozy home. Food in my fridge. Blankets when I'm cold. An umbrella or raincoat in preparation of rain. I've been told I'm demanding, due to my concern with ensuring my own comfort.
 

Vasilisa

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I don't know that I'm stereotypical. I'm not sure what four would claim to be anything stereotypical. I'm not obsessed with social media (but I am facinated on its effect on broader culture) or keeping in contact with everybody I've ever encountered. I'm not the hub of some network of friends. I think for being an introvert and being reserved, I'm social because I'm keenly aware of social dynamics and human relationships, and I feel driven to try to find security through these channels. I have a strong tendency to isolate, maybe because of the social core of shame, maybe a deep fear that I'm unworthy of love, but when I feel secure and cared about in a group, I am much healthier and happier. If you believe in the syn/contra-flow theory, I definitely relate to being in the syn-flow, so I don't have the four drive to rebel, or try to stand out for its own sake, but I definitely feel the weight of that feeling of being an outsider. I believe that my mind and thought processes differntiate themselves, and for those that take the time to discover that, it shall speak for itself, so I don't feel highly compelled to outwardly identify myself as being different. This may sound contradictary, but I do feel a strong desire to have my own personal style and cultivate my inner world and staying true to that genuine place and making sense of it in a broader sense of humanity is part of what I think keeps me in the individualist four category. This may not help, but I'm rarely able to speak to enneagram issues with much authority, this is merely my personal experience.
 

the state i am in

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a better feel for marketing, of moving through social channels rather than against them. at times so/sx types do get so caught up in the performance that it's easy for them to hide their true selves, which can lead to a kind of explosive meltdown of all kinds of stuff and really unleash the obvious 4ness (like the record cover on my avatar!) that is deeply existential in nature and so fundamentally uncertain of its value that it continually threatens to decisively abandon itself.

cue the david dondero cover/adaptation of "this world is not my home."
 
S

Stansmith

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A couple of So/Sx 4w3s


They seem more 'relatable' and light externally than other Fours I've seen. With Sx and Sp 4w3s you get the vibe that they'll shun you at any moment. Obviously, its a laughably small sample, but interesting nonetheless.
 

ayoitsStepho

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This sounds like a job for [MENTION=8046]ayoitsStepho[/MENTION].

I have been summoned.

Let's see. I think the mix of being an SO and a 4w3 can get confusing for me sometimes. I'm fully aware of who wears the pants and who cleans those pants in just about any situation. That being said, because I know this, my mind tries to figure out how they got there, what to do and what not to do. The conflict comes with using that information for my benefit but not being a part of the system- kind of like a spy. I understand the workings in the system and can get "in" with people if need be, but I'm a 4, an individual, and ultimately I feel as if the system doesn't have me. Does that make any sense?

It's a constant back and forth fight to understand people, but also be understood. Can't always have both.
 

hjgbujhghg

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I have been summoned.

Let's see. I think the mix of being an SO and a 4w3 can get confusing for me sometimes. I'm fully aware of who wears the pants and who cleans those pants in just about any situation. That being said, because I know this, my mind tries to figure out how they got there, what to do and what not to do. The conflict comes with using that information for my benefit but not being a part of the system- kind of like a spy. I understand the workings in the system and can get "in" with people if need be, but I'm a 4, an individual, and ultimately I feel as if the system doesn't have me. Does that make any sense?

It's a constant back and forth fight to understand people, but also be understood. Can't always have both.

Oh this! I can totaly relate, I do exactly the same! :D I can fit in some group if I want to, because I can understand what does the group like, or need, but never at the expanse of my individuality. I am a part of the system, but yet I am not...
 

ayoitsStepho

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Oh this! I can totaly relate, I do exactly the same! :D I can fit in some group if I want to, because I can understand what does the group like, or need, but never at the expanse of my individuality. I am a part of the system, but yet I am not...

:yes: Do you also find it easy to get along with most people? It's really easy for me to jump from group to group and never really "belong". Sure everyone knows of me, but nobody actually knows me. I don't have anyone that makes me a priority because I actually don't completely belong, I just pretend really well.
 

hjgbujhghg

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:yes: Do you also find it easy to get along with most people? It's really easy for me to jump from group to group and never really "belong". Sure everyone knows of me, but nobody actually knows me. I don't have anyone that makes me a priority because I actually don't completely belong, I just pretend really well.

This is exactly my case, but it took some time for me to develope this kind of getting along with others. When I was at highschool was an outsider, because I didn't feel like I want to belong to this group of people and I was very inidividualistic. Only latter, when I am at college I actually realized that I can use my ability to understand groups and people to get along with them and I don't necessarily need to belong. It's great at one side, that you can really talk with anyone, but it also leaves you kind of lonely because you don't get people that chance to really know you...Sometimes I have this urge to just complety be who I really am regardless on anyone, but then it's actually easier to leave things that way.. I think this creates such a tension between the 4 core and social instinct. Also the 3 wing multiply it.
 
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