[sx] Sx doms being "intimidating"

[Infinite Bubble]

Vilku, how exactly do you come to these "insights", such as the one below? How do you piece together the information?

its also an unheathy sx so behaviour to attempt to teach others how things are. ive recognized, every sx so does it when we lose our sense, which is sp, it gives us grounding, an understanding of reality. so we wouldnt be too obsessed with something irrelevant.

 

[Thalassa]

I thought about this for a while. I am going to have to say that it's cause most INFP's I k49204b5bnow are E4ish and E1ish by integration

Most ISFP's no matter what their type...but especially in E9's are just cynical....I have just observed this. I really can't think of a good reason yet. I'll have to ask one lol

INFP's still seem to have a glimmer of hope and such in their eye...probably because of E4 ness








Ha ha I edited it. I re-read what I wrote and it could have been interpreted that way. Sorry I was sleepy when I wrote that lol.

I was speaking of ISFP's in general

(Although I do think E9's would be he hardest to pinpoint down as an sx- dom now that I think of it It's seems like a contradiction to the poor E9)

-------

...you don't have to go away

And I can see a little socionics SEE going on...

But I dunno about MBTI ISFP or INFP

If you are 6w7 I would think counterphobia is strong in you, is that so?

If it's not strong then I would see 8 in your tritype.

Which is why I wouldn't have considered ISFP for you.....even though I do see the Fi....

Well I am definitely a counterphobic 6 and have 8 as my gut fix. I am sx/so, SEE Fi and am on the Jungian Fi Te axis of evil. Of all these things I am certain.

We can skip mbti altogether if it suits you.

 

[Evo]

Well I am definitely a counterphobic 6 and have 8 as my gut fix. I am sx/so, SEE Fi and am on the Jungian Fi Te axis of evil. Of all these things I am certain.

We can skip mbti altogether if it suits you.

Yea for now we can skip it. I may randomly come to a conclusion of my opinion one day and let u know lol

 

[Halla74]

@Halla74

You're the most intelligent and wise person who posted on this thread so far. I'd post my favorite bits but I'd end up quoting your whole post anyway, so yeah.

Thank you very much; I appreciate that.

Great patience too, I'm clearly not there yet, but you set a great example.

Patience comes with age and experience; you will have more and more as time passes.

You're very intelligent and bright. It's possible that you are "high geared" - and if that's the case I totally get that, that's my "wiring" too. It's great to have such energy and drive, but it does make being patient difficult at times.

I think you gave much better advices to @Vilku then I ever could. I just get so fed up I keep on trying to make him see sense. I should know it's futile. People will think what they want to think, so let it be.

Believe me; I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, and tried to learn from them all in the hopes of not making the same mistakes twice, and for the sake of being able to have a chance to help others.

EDIT> And about this:

You may wanna take care with what you say about other people beliefs. You think this is "science fiction" and you have every right to that. But just because most people believe aliens don't exist, that men really did go to the moon, ghosts are fiction etc, it doesn't make them right.

I believe you read more into that part of my reply than I intended it to stand for.
From my perspective, the conversation was going off on a tangent when the above was discussed.
I oversimplified it in an attempt to get the conversation back on track. That's it.
Yes, I can be blunt at times.
But, if you read the entirety of my response to Viklu, it is civil and supportive.
So, focusing in on one line of it without full understanding of its intent is going to skew my reply, and in this case your perception of me.

It's a question of belief, it doesn't have to be proven.

Agreed, but that's not where I was going with that comment, at that time.

And arrogant, much? Maybe I spoke too soon and you're not that wise.

Actually, I'm not arrogant at all.
I don't think you know me well enough to make a statement like that, but that's not for me to decide.

And as far as me being wise (or not), I've learned as much as I could over the course of my life and applied it as best as possible to my endeavors and my relationships with others.
IMHO, I have a long way to go. There's a lot to learn in this life, and a lot of different ways to apply that knowledge - sometimes it turns out well, and others not so much, but that is part of the journey, and I'm only halfway through mine (or say the statisticians think, we'll see what happens).

Have a great day!

i think what halla ment with science fiction, is, that im too consumed by _my_ explanations. instead of looking at it more objectively. i think the more objective explanation, is, that i read the other persons super ego, which i misinterprete as their mind. (i often take some things as so overly obvious that i dont even have a name for them. like guilt tripping, i thought its always so obvious when people do it, that it doesnt deserve to be mentioned at all. thats why i never knew what it meant to guilt trip, despite how obvious it was to me, lols. too obvious, you see, is dismissed.)

Yes, that's where I was trying to land with my earlier reply, but apparently was a bit off course.
I meant no offense; thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

Have a great day!



-Halla74

 

[Vilku]

Vilku, how exactly do you come to these "insights", such as the one below? How do you piece together the information?

a pattern of behaviour that ive observed. my data of unhealthy sx so's: me, an isfp and an entp. healthy sx so's: me at my best, an istp 7w6, entp 9w1, an infp (could be more)

but basically, the pattern is, that an unhealthy sx so _expects_ others to agree with them, and they arent open to arguments. they will just crush any deviating opinions or disregard them entirely without consideration.

a healthy sx so doesnt assume anything. they say what they think, without expecting anything.
unhealthy = close minded pseudo rational
healthy = open minded, and appears actually very irrational due the open mindedness, but thats just us knowing that the way you explain things isnt as relevant as actually understanding them.

i think im nearing health now, im starting to realize that the theory just doesnt matter ape shit. if you actually understand things, then what the fk does it matter how you explain it? this explanation focus drives me into forgetting what really is, as i try to explain something _abstract_ rather than something _actual_.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

"I can actually quote your posts to prove you did say that, yet you keep claiming I "misunderstand you". There's no misunderstanding, you called ESFJ typical behavior "retarded" three times. "

ahem, you claimed i claimed _Se_ retarded. i didnt. now what has the esfj thing to do with that? =|

I'll say it for the last time: ESFJ are primarily Fe users, yes, but Se is their second function. They are sensors. You called an ESFJ retarded three times and later claimed you only had problems with sensors.

What do you want people to think? You may have different thoughts in your head but people can't read minds, they'll judge you by what you say or in this case, write.

Which is why [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] was right, you should think before you hit post, you said it yourself you're not that good at expressing your thoughts online.

and i didnt imply there being anything negative to retardedness. wuite the opposite, your just assuming worst. one day some week ago, i saw a retard walking like a zombie, it made me laugh so hard, it made me so, so happy. whats wrong with being delighted by others?

I didn’t said you saw literally retarded people (mental handicapped) as bad anywhere in my post. I said you use the word “retarded” to describe people/things people say way too often and that’s not nice.

Assuming the worst it’s what you said you do, I don’t.

"Also I can see now that you're typing problems re related to your keyboard. That's why you used "_" to separate your words, right?"

thats a method of emphasis. something i can use universally everywhere, unlike bolding nd that, so yeah, i prefer universal methods[B/].

"Universal methods"? I've never seen anyone use _ to separate words unless it was in a username, URL or to make emoticons. I'm genuinely curious as where else it's used.

"People have their moments of course, but no Introvert normally feels what you described, so that means you're an E."

or maybe it could just be lack of compassion, because ive never really been loved by anyone so then when i introspect, the pain surfaces.. and im just misinterpreting this need of compassion as a need of socializing? idk =S..

Introspection =/= depression.

Needing compassion is indeed different from a desire to socialize. But what do you see as "socializing"?

although its true, i feel the most energized after an instense conversation. an sx thing perhaps?

No, it's not a sx dom thing. If we were to use Ennegram, it'd be a So dom trait.

I think it's more indicative of personality type, though. My type happens to be one of the biggest chatterboxes of MBTI, and I noticed the descriptions are in general right about what types like to talk the most and what they wanna talk about.

"What made you think you might be an ENFJ?

And remember, you don't have to fit every word in the description to be one. Most MBTI articles are written by prejudiced Intuitives who bias their tests against Sensors because they thin their lesser beings. So you can't really trust these descriptions 100%.

You're much better off reading material on Cognitive Functions, they actually describe your values and that's more who we are then how we act. Unfortunately most of the texts are really long and difficult, but I found out my type after reading two great pieces. I can post the links if you'd like, after you find out your Ennegram type. "

yes, i think so too. its best to talk to actual people and learn through experience.
yes, do post.
this might be biased logic, but heres my interpretation anyways: (despite the fact that i dont realte with _any_ type, the nfj's seem closest however.)
Te's have shared standards, such as learning by same methods as others, combined with fi, personal morals. i have more of universal morals, that i could say are fool proof, as long as i actually follow them. and ive always learned things my own way, its a Ti thing.

You are right about Fi being about personal morals. And having universal morals is indicative of Fe.

But you don't have the difference between Te and Ti very clear. You know they're different, but you are wrong on the what makes them so.

Te has standards, but so does Ti. Every function has, they're only different. You've said before "another Te user wants everybody to think like them" but that's not true. What happens it's that we are concerned with facts and when we see something very wrong we have to correct it, it's irresistible.

Learning things your own way is not necessarily a Ti thing. I've been self taught for more than 10 years, I've learn 4 languages on my own and have a lot of trouble in school. I hate receiving lessons in general and prefer to come to my own conclusions based on actual experiences and observations. That method sounds a lot like what you've said you do , and I'm a Te user.

So you might be a Ti person, but not for these reasons.

im as nutty as a feeler. if i feel like im type a, then thats what i believe in. -.- (it _is_ based on logic, but i often take shortcuts in my "logic". because im so impatient, and want answers instantly. whenever i face a problem, i allow my frustration and anger to consume me until an answer pops into my mind. doesnt work always.. -..-)

You don't say :big grin:

Seriously, I wanted to point this out a hundred posts ago but always forgot!!! Yeah, you're obviously in a rush to find an answer, but that's exactly what makes it impossible!

i take my responsibility of finding my place and contributing enough to sustain myself in this society my primary goal, a Je user thing id guess. ive always taken my school too seriously, despite the fact that i remember none of thei nformation they teach cause i consider it useless.

First part does sound like a J thing, but not remembering information you find useless, that's more of a N thing. We are creative types, if something it's pointless we will always ask "Why?"

if i dont think im going to a good direction, then ill give myself absolutely no fun time at all. and if i do, i do it to make myself more skillful at something. i heavily restrain my imagination, trying to be realistic, despite how much i love fantasizing about the unreal. more unreal, the better.

N through and through.

You're repressing your imagination? That's terrible!!!

You should find an outlet like writing, drawing, painting, singing etc, so you don't let it run wild, but don't supress it. It's gonna eat you from the inside.

enfj's seem to relate things such as family, place you live, and other details i consider completely irrelevant to my identity as somehow relevant, so it makes me doubt that im an enfj. like i told one enfj that my mother is a capitalist, he instantly got all bewildered and asked in an angry tone looking at my eyes: "are you a capitalist!!?" xD..

You are correct, that's an unchangeable ENFJ trait, it's their natural worldview. Indeed I was typed as ENFJ twice online but when I got to that part I knew it was impossible, I have absolutely no roots anywhere.

dont know though, my sample ground of enfj's is inexistent.

You mean you don't actually know an ENFJ in real life?

one Fe thing: my empathy is involuntary. as long as im emotionally open, ill suck up everyone elses problems.

Interesting, I'm exactly the same except I don't soak up their problems, I soak up their energy. If someone with a bad vibe stays close to me for long, I can fall ill.

on the ennea: my general best problem solving strategy is to use the frustration/anger i mentioned to motivate my brains into finding an answer from within. seems like both an Ni and 5w4 integrating to eight thing[/]B? like when i was better, always when i forgot a word, i would just get all angry in my head and search relentlessly until i found it. and thta habit provided me an incredible vocabulary at the time, which has diminished by now.. i know the words are there, but ive lost connection to them.

And you're back to where you began, trying to relate Ennegarm and MBTI at any cost. I will not say anything else on the matter, clearly it's a futile attempt.

"That's indeed a different thing. But have you come up with this routine yourself? Why?

It's important to know if we came up with routines ourselves or if we are only conditioned to it thanks to our upbringing, going to a boarding/rigid school, having to adapt to live on our own etc."

other peoples routines never stuck to me. ive always had my own, more strict than other peoples standards. it started around age 6 with hand washing, keeping my toys clean, requiring my friends to always wash their hands before they can play with my toys. it still applies. =) (but i usually rather just clean the things my friends touch after they leave. and they say they have "clean" hands. well, not clean enough clearly. -.-) i sometimes push my standards on others if mine are more efficient, and deal with the same problem. it also annoys the hell out of me if other people believe in silly things and demand me to behave some way because of their stupid beliefs.

So you have OCD. Yep, usually a J thing. I don't think I've ever met a P who had it.

im also normally quite rigid with what i expect from other people, but since my head getting messed up, i dont believe in my own morals anymore. i pretty much just absorb the morals of whoever i am with.

You mean your moral expectations, right?

That's very dangerous.

"I can understand that. I feel the same way. Since I'm an ENFP and you might be an ENFJ, it could be an ENFx thing."

ive noticed, other sx so's seem to have problems with such trivial sp things too. being an intuitor only makes it even worse. (referring to the busses thing<<), and the bothering thing, yeah, prolly.

You tell me.

"That's understandable. Introspection is about looking inside of yourself, focusing on you and not others, living inside of your head.

But if you spend too much time there, you loose touch with the outside and can't connect the dots. You'll read a hundred pages on something but won't be able do make sense of it. I've been there, done that, never wanna come back."

hm.. ive been very external focused the past few years, reading reading and reading, but lost the ability to internalize it due losing connection to my experience. thus the theories were without grounding. for me, looking inside does seem to make everything more clear, but like i said before, its the pain i eventually rediscover that stops my pursuit. 5w4 descriptions say 5w4's get all lost if they dont detach themselves from the reality, it seems like what i experience. since youre an 8, 5 is disintegration, so its the worst thing you could do.

Reading is not necessarily external thing. Not if you're reading about yourself or at least on information regarding what type you might be. You're still mostly inside of your head.

You didn't ask my question: are you're sure about your Ennegram now? What did you use to come to this conclusion?

since i strongly suspect 8w7 is my third ennea potentially, i can see how others scrutinizing me caused to me doubting myself and becoming thus very introspective in a negative way, losing connection to outside.

Right.

"So you're sure your type is 5w4? How did you find out, through a test or reading? I'm curious, you've said you've been wrong many times.

That would explain your online behavior so far. I really love to help people, I also like challenges so that's why I tried to help you for so long. You seemed to need it and it was interesting.

I feel really stupid wasting my time with you if you didn't really mean to learn anything.

But it's a lesson learnt. Never again.

About the shadow type thing:if you don't care to understand, then I don't care to explain.

Peace out."

dont assume too quick. =|
i do am honestly trying to learn all this time, its just that i fail at doing it at times. thats why i call it "learning".
especially now that im having one of these introspective phases again. so im actually genuinely able to learn.

and the link you shew clearly said its Si Te thats your shadow. elaborate me?

and when im disconnected from myself, i dont realize im not learning things[B/]. i would never want to do that kind of repetitive waste of time consciously.

Technically, If we were to assume every piece of the MBTI theory to be right, ISTJ would be my shadow type. But as I've said before, MBTI sucks when compared to Jung's original theory. Socionics gets Jung much more than the MBTI creators ever did, which is why most people prefer it to MBTI.

I do too, it's much more open minded and there are actual subtypes to each different kind of leading function. So there are Ne-ENFPs, Fi-ENFps, Ti-INTJs, Ne-INTjs etc.

It's magical.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

a pattern of behaviour that ive observed. my data of unhealthy sx so's: me, an isfp and an entp. healthy sx so's: me at my best, an istp 7w6, entp 9w1, an infp (could be more)

but basically, the pattern is, that an unhealthy sx so _expects_ others to agree with them, and they arent open to arguments. they will just crush any deviating opinions or disregard them entirely without consideration.

a healthy sx so doesnt assume anything. they say what they think, without expecting anything.
unhealthy = close minded pseudo rational
healthy = open minded, and appears actually very irrational due the open mindedness, but thats just us knowing that the way you explain things isnt as relevant as actually understanding them.

i think im nearing health now, im starting to realize that the theory just doesnt matter ape shit. if you actually understand things, then what the fk does it matter how you explain it? this explanation focus drives me into forgetting what really is, as i try to explain something _abstract_ rather than something _actual_.

This description fits anyone of any Ennegram type and dom when close minded. It’s not a Sx/So exclusively thing.

I'm glad to know you're getting better, but try and find some sort of therapy so you don't enter the roller coaster gain.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

I keep reading the last posts first so my replies are out of order...

Why does that bother me so much?

 

[Typh0n]

[MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION]

You quoted something I wrote; perhaps you're right. It just seems that when I come off with my natural vibe to others, it scares them away? It seems. Now perhaps Im the one who is shy and thinks they are being scared away when it is, in fact, I who is scared of them! What a head trip. I think you're right though; its best to just go with your natural energy rather than trip yourself out over such issues!

 

[Dancing_Queen]

Thank you very much; I appreciate that.



Patience comes with age and experience; you will have more and more as time passes.

You're very intelligent and bright. It's possible that you are "high geared" - and if that's the case I totally get that, that's my "wiring" too. It's great to have such energy and drive, but it does make being patient difficult at times.

I'm working on it. And yes, sometimes my mind gives me heaven, sometimes hell .

Believe me; I've made a lot of mistakes over the years, and tried to learn from them all in the hopes of not making the same mistakes twice, and for the sake of being able to have a chance to help others.

I hear you, I'm also happy to be able to do the same in certain situations.

I believe you read more into that part of my reply than I intended it to stand for.
From my perspective, the conversation was going off on a tangent when the above was discussed.
I oversimplified it in an attempt to get the conversation back on track. That's it.
Yes, I can be blunt at times.
But, if you read the entirety of my response to Viklu, it is civil and supportive.
So, focusing in on one line of it without full understanding of its intent is going to skew my reply, and in this case your perception of me.

I understand wanting to stay on topic, talking to [MENTION=15003]Vilku[/MENTION] drives me crazy sometimes as anyone can see lol, but I still think there were better ways to do that then that.

As open minded as I am about most things, I’m quite rigid when it comes to how people express themselves. That's my intolerant side and obviously it can cause riffs.

I stand corrected.

Agreed, but that's not where I was going with that comment, at that time.

Got it.

Actually, I'm not arrogant at all.
I don't think you know me well enough to make a statement like that, but that's not for me to decide.

Indeed I don't know you, but if you read correctly I said "Arrogant, much?". I meant you're statement, not you. It sounded arrogant in itself, at least to me.

And as far as me being wise (or not), I've learned as much as I could over the course of my life and applied it as best as possible to my endeavors and my relationships with others.
IMHO, I have a long way to go. There's a lot to learn in this life, and a lot of different ways to apply that knowledge - sometimes it turns out well, and others not so much, but that is part of the journey, and I'm only halfway through mine (or say the statisticians think, we'll see what happens).

I meant to say wise people don't make less of other beliefs, but it's clear I misunderstood you, so forget it.

Have a great day!

 

[Vilku]

I'll say it for the last time: ESFJ are primarily Fe users, yes, but Se is their second function. They are sensors. You called an ESFJ retarded three times and later claimed you only had problems with sensors.

What do you want people to think? You may have different thoughts in your head but people can't read minds, they'll judge you by what you say or in this case, write.

Which is why [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] was right, you should think before you hit post, you said it yourself you're not that good at expressing your thoughts online.



I didn’t said you saw literally retarded people (mental handicapped) as bad anywhere in my post. I said you use the word “retarded” to describe people/things people say way too often and that’s not nice.

Assuming the worst it’s what you said you do, I don’t.



"Universal methods"? I've never seen anyone use _ to separate words unless it was in a username, URL or to make emoticons. I'm genuinely curious as where else it's used.



Introspection =/= depression.

I think it's more indicative of personality type, though. My type happens to be one of the biggest chatterboxes of MBTI, and I noticed the descriptions are in general right about what types like to talk the most and what they wanna talk about.



You are right about Fi being about personal morals. And having universal morals is indicative of Fe.

So you might be a Ti person, but not for these reasons.

im as nutty as a feeler. if i feel like im type a, then thats what i believe in. -.- (it _is_ based on logic, but i often take shortcuts in my "logic". because im so impatient, and want answers instantly. whenever i face a problem, i allow my frustration and anger to consume me until an answer pops into my mind. doesnt work always.. -..-)

You don't say :big grin:



First part does sound like a J thing, but not remembering information you find useless, that's more of a N thing. We are creative types, if something it's pointless we will always ask "Why?"




"Needing compassion is indeed different from a desire to socialize. But what do you see as "socializing"?"

blabbering. but it seems entirely pointless if theres no emotional exchange.


"No, it's not a sx dom thing. If we were to use Ennegram, it'd be a So dom trait."

its not the conversing, its the intensity. which can also be exhcganed without convorsing, but it helps to do it too.

"But you don't have the difference between Te and Ti very clear. You know they're different, but you are wrong on the what makes them so."

i still think Fi is very intertangled with Te. such as, one istj scrutinized me for calling hair chemicals hair chemicals, which is correct because a, they are chemicals, b, they are meant for hair. but apparently, he believed they should be called by something ridiculous which i dont remember, just because he thinks so.

"Te has standards, but so does Ti. Every function has, they're only different. You've said before "another Te user wants everybody to think like them" but that's not true. What happens it's that we are concerned with facts and when we see something very wrong we have to correct it, it's irresistible."

i have same with Fe. if i see someone believing something which i see clearly as false, i will correct them. like people who are into astrology. i remind them, that its just imagination. or if i see someone being stuck in an updroductive loop, such as doing too much of thing A, and neglecting necessities b and c, ill make nonchalant comments to let them know how i feel about it.

"Learning things your own way is not necessarily a Ti thing. I've been self taught for more than 10 years, I've learn 4 languages on my own and have a lot of trouble in school. I hate receiving lessons in general and prefer to come to my own conclusions based on actual experiences and observations. That method sounds a lot like what you've said you do , and I'm a Te user."

well, im not sure how to express it, but what i meant is that you use _sources_, thus you learn from _others_. Ti is self reliant, and doesnt need any sources to come up with conclusions. and Te is compatible with others, Ti is personal and doesnt conform to others.

"So you have OCD. Yep, usually a J thing. I don't think I've ever met a P who had it."

ive been analyzed by professionals, they didnt make that conclusion, because my routines are based on rational conclusions, not a _need_. thats the difference between over active super ego(ocd) and just casual super ego. although yeah, i dont think a casual superego would manifest this way in that many other types.

"You mean you don't actually know an ENFJ in real life?"

i used to. didnt know him well enough to type all of his personality, thus i cant say what is and isnt caused by his enfj'ness.

"Seriously, I wanted to point this out a hundred posts ago but always forgot!!! Yeah, you're obviously in a rush to find an answer, but that's exactly what makes it impossible! "

its said to be a trait of 5w4. that they want answers instantly, while enjoying getting them, still being frustrated of not having them instantly.

im trying to slow down. stop learning too many things at once, and try to focus on the most relevant questions.

"You should find an outlet like writing, drawing, painting, singing etc, so you don't let it run wild, but don't supress it. It's gonna eat you from the inside. "

youre right, but often when i give myself time to do these, im still not letting myself free. im repressing things, because of all sorts of pressures im unaware of. i think its mostly centered around my identity. cause people have always wanted someone else than who i am, so ive became that someone else.

that emotional repression makes it simply impossible to imagine anything pleasurable. my imaginations are mostly lacking of any feeling content.

im trying to learn how to dream. often my obsession with thinking is so strong, that i think even when i sleep.. =| (its very exhausting, and i know it doesnt help.)
now that i think.. i do think a lot, lols. =O.. just not the right things! <.<

"Interesting, I'm exactly the same except I don't soak up their problems, I soak up their energy. If someone with a bad vibe stays close to me for long, I can fall ill."

mh, that explains why i can influence enfp's so easily. i find it very easy to control and manipulate my vibe, if i just want to. i try to use it to make people feel better. (unless something is bothering my mind, in which case, im completely withdrawn emotionally.)

"And you're back to where you began, trying to relate Ennegarm and MBTI at any cost. I will not say anything else on the matter, clearly it's a futile attempt."

i meant they both gain asnwers by focusing. 5w4's need to focus their thoughts, and Ni does the exact same thing. not saying its related, just similar. so it'd be a fair assumption, that a 5w4 with Ni in their stacking, would use that function strongly when integrating.

"You mean your moral expectations, right?

That's very dangerous."

well i think this as an universal moral seems quite good: respect other peoples weaknesses, and if they dont respect yours, convince them by telling how you respect theirs.

"Reading is not necessarily external thing. Not if you're reading about yourself or at least on information regarding what type you might be. You're still mostly inside of your head.

You didn't ask my question: are you're sure about your Ennegram now? What did you use to come to this conclusion?"

i suppose youre right, but in my perspective, its as if im looking for answers from out then, when the truth is already within. its the scary pain monster that stops me from reaching to the truth.. (yet to figure out what causes the pain =| )

ok, so heres my brief view on my enneagram:

as a child, only my intellectual side was appreciated by other people. it was the only thing i ever got complimented for. they expected me to not have emotions, so i suppressed them. i had anyways lost all confidence in everything else about myself than my intelligence, so it was my only source of self esteem. i always strived to be more intelligence, so some day my mother would love me. i was very observant from early on. my detachement from others of my age started at age 8 when i realized everyone of my age were less mature. i would just observe them go at their games, of which i had long ago got bored, and id keep pondering all kinds of thoughts while doing so. this is how i spent majority of my school pause time between the years 8 to 13. at 13, i got enough, i realized, they arent going to mature, ever. they only got more and more stupid as they got older. i totally lost all hopes on humanity, whatever irrational hope there was before it. and got into total game addiction/depression. not like i wasnt before, but after that point it went so out of control, that despite my self discipline, i wasnt able to perform my school perfectly. before that, i had absolutely never been late from any class. that was my self image, the intelligent natural at math proper child. i absorbed every expectation that was placed on me. (now that i think, this does sound ennea one, but ive never had any problems with ocd. i was always able to rationalize all of my discipline. and then theres the fact, that it seems like 8w7 is my body triad ennea, based on my problem dealing method being to just hit the face of the person causing mayhem. until they scrutinized me for this, which led to major feeling bottling, and placed me on the position, that even if i get attacked or teased, im just not allowed to do anything about it. but yes, e1 descriptions talk about suppressed anger.. but as you can judge from my OP, ive started to leak it out after a life time of suppression. i did once suspect myself as a 1w9 before, but the high didnt last long. or actually, twice. i guess it could be my body triad, but primary? considering ive been in a learning mania the past few years... during my depression, i always had this boiling anger underneath. a complete dissatisfaction with everything. and from pictures taken in that period, someone with my empathic abilities can easily see im like a volcano waiting eruption. however, no one ever mentioned noticing it.. they mightve had, but it would be very rude to mention something like that. and my father at least, an istp, has absolutely zero emotion reading skills, unless i were to scream, which i never do. my anger however, resembles more of an 8w7 who has serious self doubting issues. i also have problems with not fearing anything, typical 8w7 problem. if ive never experienced something awful off of something, i assume it doesnt exist until i have. like my arrogance towards psychological problems. i expected them to be miniscule in comparison to physical matters, so even though i knew i was going insane, i didnt care.)

the thing i most care about in this existence is my intelligence and health. i wanted a life with perfect body and physically healthy brains, so i could reach my maximum potential without limitations. thats why having my favourite sense damaged is so big deal to me, and im not sure if im ever going to accept it.

also dont 1w9's have that anger even when healthy? i met one who did, yet she was very capable of helping me.
mine disappears completely when im on a good mood. and its more like frustration

i also have this 5w4 thing, that sometimes i can look at any object and be so immersed in my observation, that its as if the object i was gazing is the most fascinating, profound thing to ever exist. i think my 7w6 istp sx so friend has something very similar, but then, hes a very integrated person.

before any crap started, i was like all children, fascinated by the reality, adventurous, and so on. life was like a fantasy story. i felt intensely at anything i found fascinating. such as pokemons, nature, and uh.. mostly just nature, lols. >.< i did play with my best friends, ive always had this sx dom trait, that i always find one friend, and thats it. all of the other friends are so irrelevant that i wont even remember them. i guess i mustve done boring things too with my friends, but i only remember the times i got emotional. and what got me emotional, was adventuring. i eventually started succumbing onto myself, got bored with everything, and my adventures turned into game world. where they, after they got boring, it was all about achieving some superior unique identity. (4w3). it couldnt be 1w9 disintegration, because that unique identity always involved w3 element, the novelty that is 4w3 charasteristic. not to say 1w9 couldnt be somewhere in my stacking, but it became strictly a 4w3 pursuit after i lost the sense of adventure in the game. thus it was all about about escapism and obsession over achieving a unique, magnificent identity.

also before the crap, i had no qualms at all to defend myself by physically hitting others or throwing stones at them when teased or aggrevated.
these days it just all seems so pointless, that i couldnt bother, unless not bothering means having to suffer more.

back between years 8 to 16, it would give me enormous pride when teachers or someone else ocmplimented about how proper i am, or how natural i am at math. i even got 9 out of 10 score as my end result in english, despite my depression making me miss a lot of tests, and despite the fact that i learned _nothing_ about english from the class. i learned it all out on my own, by chatting in games.

but these days, when an estj complimented a long lithany of how proper i am, i felt nothing. im not that person any more. i dont identify with my properism anymore, in fact, i dont care much at all. but i do am a bit proud of my ability to maintain a strict diet and routines. and when i one day wore a carlsberg shirt(a beer product), it baffled everyone. they even mentioned how baffled they were, but i dont think i ever told them im an absolutist.(for health reasons, as i value it highly. mostly just my brains, but the other parts are extra.)
one day, a person asked in seriously concerned tone, how many ive drank. i couldnt but laugh in annoyance, and tell her im an absolutist.

honestly speaking, its very hard to say, considering ive changed a lot thorought my life. (i would expect its me adjusting my triad strategy, as one or another in my triad fails.)
but the most common theme in my (good) emotions is fascination. on the bad ones: pain, rejection of me, disconnection of others.
i little detail: at around age 6, i realized that my dreams were extremely stupid, immature, and childish, so i started hating my dreams so badly, that i stopped dreaming. i decided not to dream, and my wish was granted. i realize, this also made my imagination even as a child rather limited, too emotionless. mostly fascination about little robots and sci-fi planes going at war with each other. even me playing with toys was very emotionless, more of an abstract interest about seeing what i can create with an enormous amounts of toys, by arranging them. this hate of imagination started after i was severely ashamed by a school teacher reading my heart felt written story in a sarcastic tone. although like i mentioned, the hate of childishness started already at age 6. i always strived to be more and more mature. i wanted to be the image of ideal maturity as a child, until that point of age 13 where i lost any last hopes i had for humanity growing up.

when i were emotionally well,(during years centered before age 13) which was extremely rare, i had this old soul aura/vibe to me. like i had seen everything already, and life had nothing more to offer me.

i also had this constant feeling of suppression, after age 8 to 17, that if i ever deviated from their expectations, i would instantly be punished. because in my experience, they always punished me if i did. and they never, ever understood me at all. so i learned to shut up, because no one would care about what i had to say. the only people i actually spoke with were my best friends (who changed every year because i changed school every year.) and my father. whom i believed to be a simpleton from a very early age on. well.. howd you expect an intitor child compare themselves to a sensor? =|

but then, i also believed i was the only person on planet earth with feelings, because i didnt see others ever feeling anything before i learned my aura ability (at age 17 or 18) and because no one ever understood my feelings at all. so you can imagine i had no motivation for socializing, since i believed they didnt have feelings and b, that everyone else is as stupid as fuck. so you can imagine why such a world wasnt very appealing to me.

and like i said, i dont identify with that properism image anymore, but i dont think it has changed the fact that i still do have high standards.

things that might distort this analysis: sx so's become pseudo rational, usually believing to poses a high intellect when unhealthy. and if im an infj, they have high idealism standards.

and also, my official diagnosis is "a psychotic personality". which indicates more that i seem psychotic, even when im healthy. but then, an istp had a diagnosis "reclusive personality", LOLs. like yeah, introversion _totally_ needs a name! -.- (hes just super introverted, and its so lame they try to change peoples _personalities_ in my country, despite the fact that its impossible. makes me wonder, how can their psychological methods be so screwed up? =| )

so theres my "brief" overlook, xD

 

[Dancing_Queen]

I'll say it for the last time: ESFJ are primarily Fe users, yes, but Se is their second function. They are sensors. You called an ESFJ retarded three times and later claimed you only had problems with sensors.

What do you want people to think? You may have different thoughts in your head but people can't read minds, they'll judge you by what you say or in this case, write.

Which is why [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] was right, you should think before you hit post, you said it yourself you're not that good at expressing your thoughts online.



I didn’t said you saw literally retarded people (mental handicapped) as bad anywhere in my post. I said you use the word “retarded” to describe people/things people say way too often and that’s not nice.

Assuming the worst it’s what you said you do, I don’t.



"Universal methods"? I've never seen anyone use _ to separate words unless it was in a username, URL or to make emoticons. I'm genuinely curious as where else it's used.



Introspection =/= depression.

I think it's more indicative of personality type, though. My type happens to be one of the biggest chatterboxes of MBTI, and I noticed the descriptions are in general right about what types like to talk the most and what they wanna talk about.



You are right about Fi being about personal morals. And having universal morals is indicative of Fe.

So you might be a Ti person, but not for these reasons.

im as nutty as a feeler. if i feel like im type a, then thats what i believe in. -.- (it _is_ based on logic, but i often take shortcuts in my "logic". because im so impatient, and want answers instantly. whenever i face a problem, i allow my frustration and anger to consume me until an answer pops into my mind. doesnt work always.. -..-)

You don't say :big grin:



First part does sound like a J thing, but not remembering information you find useless, that's more of a N thing. We are creative types, if something it's pointless we will always ask "Why?"


"Needing compassion is indeed different from a desire to socialize. But what do you see as "socializing"?"

blabbering. but it seems entirely pointless if theres no emotional exchange.

First, can you please try and fix your posts? It takes a long time until I can reply because I have to put the quotes in the right place, my fingers are hurting.

By "blabbering" you mean small talk? If so, I get it.

"No, it's not a sx dom thing. If we were to use Ennegram, it'd be a So dom trait."

its not the conversing, its the intensity. which can also be exhcganed without convorsing, but it helps to do it too.

You need to be more specific. You talk in generals way too much.

"But you don't have the difference between Te and Ti very clear. You know they're different, but you are wrong on the what makes them so."

i still think Fi is very intertangled with Te. such as, one istj scrutinized me for calling hair chemicals hair chemicals, which is correct because a, they are chemicals, b, they are meant for hair. but apparently, he believed they should be called by something ridiculous which i dont remember, just because he thinks so.

I understand your view, but you're wrong. We Te users care about accuracy. If the product had an specific name or term to be refferd as, that's what we want it to be called like.

An example:

Let's say you and me are at the supermarket together and we stop at the soft drinks aisle. We both see a stand full of bottles with red labels filled by a dark drink.

You say: "Look, that cola drink!"

I correct you: "Not that cola drink, it's called a Coke, can't you see??"

That would be a typical Te vs Ti situation. It's not about our Fi feelings, it's about our Te obsession with accurate facts and vocabulary

"Te has standards, but so does Ti. Every function has, they're only different. You've said before "another Te user wants everybody to think like them" but that's not true. What happens it's that we are concerned with facts and when we see something very wrong we have to correct it, it's irresistible."

i have same with Fe. if i see someone believing something which i see clearly as false, i will correct them. like people who are into astrology. i remind them, that its just imagination. or if i see someone being stuck in an updroductive loop, such as doing too much of thing A, and neglecting necessities b and c, ill make nonchalant comments to let them know how i feel about it.

It's not the same. You correct them on their morals, we correct their facts.

Also, thats' rich. You believe in seeing "radiating colors" when looking at people but think astrology is in their imagination?

How about you show people the same respect you wanna have? I accepted your beliefs as weird as they were once I understood what you meant, so I think I deserve the same.

"Learning things your own way is not necessarily a Ti thing. I've been self taught for more than 10 years, I've learn 4 languages on my own and have a lot of trouble in school. I hate receiving lessons in general and prefer to come to my own conclusions based on actual experiences and observations. That method sounds a lot like what you've said you do , and I'm a Te user."

well, im not sure how to express it, but what i meant is that you use _sources_, thus you learn from _others_. Ti is self reliant, and doesnt need any sources to come up with conclusions.

You don't need any sources? So why do you use MBTI/Ennegram instead of creating your own personality theory?

It's absolutely impossible for anyone, unless you're a genius, to create something out of thin air.

Unless you're making shit up, then of course you wouldn't need any logic.

People can't come to trustable conclusions on their own. I think our exchanges so far illustrate that well enough.

"So you have OCD. Yep, usually a J thing. I don't think I've ever met a P who had it."

ive been analyzed by professionals, they didnt make that conclusion, because my routines are based on rational conclusions, not a _need_. thats the difference between over active super ego(ocd) and just casual super ego. although yeah, i dont think a casual superego would manifest this way in that many other types.

Funny how they locked you up for allegedly defending yourself but didn't pick up on that . A like for cleanness and order is not OCD, but you described your need for washing hands in detail, and that sounded like mild OCD. I'm no specialist, though.

"You mean you don't actually know an ENFJ in real life?"

i used to. didnt know him well enough to type all of his personality, thus i cant say what is and isnt caused by his enfj'ness.

That's wise.

"Seriously, I wanted to point this out a hundred posts ago but always forgot!!! Yeah, you're obviously in a rush to find an answer, but that's exactly what makes it impossible! "

its said to be a trait of 5w4. that they want answers instantly, while enjoying getting them, still being frustrated of not having them instantly.

im trying to slow down. stop learning too many things at once, and try to focus on the most relevant questions.

ANSWER ME: are you sure you're an 5w4? I asked you many times to tell me how you came to know that, you always ignore me.

"You should find an outlet like writing, drawing, painting, singing etc, so you don't let it run wild, but don't supress it. It's gonna eat you from the inside. "

youre right, but often when i give myself time to do these, im still not letting myself free. im repressing things, because of all sorts of pressures im unaware of. i think its mostly centered around my identity. cause people have always wanted someone else than who i am, so ive became that someone else.

If you were unaware of them they wouldn't force you to change. I hope you find motivation to be yourself.

that emotional repression makes it simply impossible to imagine anything pleasurable. my imaginations are mostly lacking of any feeling content.

im trying to learn how to dream. often my obsession with thinking is so strong, that i think even when i sleep.. =| (its very exhausting, and i know it doesnt help.)

Did you have any hobbies before all this happened? Maybe that can give you a clue of what you like.

now that i think.. i do think a lot, lols. =O.. just not the right things! <.<

Haha, ok .

"Interesting, I'm exactly the same except I don't soak up their problems, I soak up their energy. If someone with a bad vibe stays close to me for long, I can fall ill."

mh, that explains why i can influence enfp's so easily. i find it very easy to control and manipulate my vibe, if i just want to. i try to use it to make people feel better. (unless something is bothering my mind, in which case, im completely withdrawn emotionally.)

Yes, we can't be emotionally manipulated we smell that from miles away, but it can be easy to mess with our energy if we leave our channels open.

"And you're back to where you began, trying to relate Ennegarm and MBTI at any cost. I will not say anything else on the matter, clearly it's a futile attempt."

i meant they both gain asnwers by focusing. 5w4's need to focus their thoughts, and Ni does the exact same thing. not saying its related, just similar. so it'd be a fair assumption, that a 5w4 with Ni in their stacking, would use that function strongly when integrating.

It's similar, yes.

"You mean your moral expectations, right?

That's very dangerous."

well i think this as an universal moral seems quite good: respect other peoples weaknesses, and if they dont respect yours, convince them by telling how you respect theirs.

I think you misunderstood me this time. Read the whole post where my question came from again. I didn't said you were wrong in using universal morals, I was trying to understand what you were referring too.

We probably have different morals, and that's fine.

"Reading is not necessarily external thing. Not if you're reading about yourself or at least on information regarding what type you might be. You're still mostly inside of your head.

You didn't ask my question: are you're sure about your Ennegram now? What did you use to come to this conclusion?"

i suppose youre right, but in my perspective, its as if im looking for answers from out then, when the truth is already within. its the scary pain monster that stops me from reaching to the truth.. (yet to figure out what causes the pain =| )

ok, so heres my brief view on my enneagram:

as a child, only my intellectual side was appreciated by other people. it was the only thing i ever got complimented for. they expected me to not have emotions, so i suppressed them. i had anyways lost all confidence in everything else about myself than my intelligence, so it was my only source of self esteem. i always strived to be more intelligence, so some day my mother would love me. i was very observant from early on. my detachement from others of my age started at age 8 when i realized everyone of my age were less mature. i would just observe them go at their games, of which i had long ago got bored, and id keep pondering all kinds of thoughts while doing so. this is how i spent majority of my school pause time between the years 8 to 13. at 13, i got enough, i realized, they arent going to mature, ever. they only got more and more stupid as they got older. i totally lost all hopes on humanity, whatever irrational hope there was before it. and got into total game addiction/depression. not like i wasnt before, but after that point it went so out of control, that despite my self discipline, i wasnt able to perform my school perfectly. before that, i had absolutely never been late from any class. that was my self image, the intelligent natural at math proper child. i absorbed every expectation that was placed on me. (now that i think, this does sound ennea one, but ive never had any problems with ocd. i was always able to rationalize all of my discipline. and then theres the fact, that it seems like 8w7 is my body triad ennea, based on my problem dealing method being to just hit the face of the person causing mayhem. until they scrutinized me for this, which led to major feeling bottling, and placed me on the position, that even if i get attacked or teased, im just not allowed to do anything about it. but yes, e1 descriptions talk about suppressed anger.. but as you can judge from my OP, ive started to leak it out after a life time of suppression. i did once suspect myself as a 1w9 before, but the high didnt last long. or actually, twice. i guess it could be my body triad, but primary? considering ive been in a learning mania the past few years... during my depression, i always had this boiling anger underneath. a complete dissatisfaction with everything. and from pictures taken in that period, someone with my empathic abilities can easily see im like a volcano waiting eruption. however, no one ever mentioned noticing it.. they mightve had, but it would be very rude to mention something like that. and my father at least, an istp, has absolutely zero emotion reading skills, unless i were to scream, which i never do. my anger however, resembles more of an 8w7 who has serious self doubting issues. i also have problems with not fearing anything, typical 8w7 problem. if ive never experienced something awful off of something, i assume it doesnt exist until i have. like my arrogance towards psychological problems. i expected them to be miniscule in comparison to physical matters, so even though i knew i was going insane, i didnt care.)

the thing i most care about in this existence is my intelligence and health. i wanted a life with perfect body and physically healthy brains, so i could reach my maximum potential without limitations. thats why having my favourite sense damaged is so big deal to me, and im not sure if im ever going to accept it.

also dont 1w9's have that anger even when healthy? i met one who did, yet she was very capable of helping me.
mine disappears completely when im on a good mood. and its more like frustration

i also have this 5w4 thing, that sometimes i can look at any object and be so immersed in my observation, that its as if the object i was gazing is the most fascinating, profound thing to ever exist. i think my 7w6 istp sx so friend has something very similar, but then, hes a very integrated person.

before any crap started, i was like all children, fascinated by the reality, adventurous, and so on. life was like a fantasy story. i felt intensely at anything i found fascinating. such as pokemons, nature, and uh.. mostly just nature, lols. >.< i did play with my best friends, ive always had this sx dom trait, that i always find one friend, and thats it. all of the other friends are so irrelevant that i wont even remember them. i guess i mustve done boring things too with my friends, but i only remember the times i got emotional. and what got me emotional, was adventuring. i eventually started succumbing onto myself, got bored with everything, and my adventures turned into game world. where they, after they got boring, it was all about achieving some superior unique identity. (4w3). it couldnt be 1w9 disintegration, because that unique identity always involved w3 element, the novelty that is 4w3 charasteristic. not to say 1w9 couldnt be somewhere in my stacking, but it became strictly a 4w3 pursuit after i lost the sense of adventure in the game. thus it was all about about escapism and obsession over achieving a unique, magnificent identity.

also before the crap, i had no qualms at all to defend myself by physically hitting others or throwing stones at them when teased or aggrevated.
these days it just all seems so pointless, that i couldnt bother, unless not bothering means having to suffer more.

back between years 8 to 16, it would give me enormous pride when teachers or someone else ocmplimented about how proper i am, or how natural i am at math. i even got 9 out of 10 score as my end result in english, despite my depression making me miss a lot of tests, and despite the fact that i learned _nothing_ about english from the class. i learned it all out on my own, by chatting in games.

but these days, when an estj complimented a long lithany of how proper i am, i felt nothing. im not that person any more. i dont identify with my properism anymore, in fact, i dont care much at all. but i do am a bit proud of my ability to maintain a strict diet and routines. and when i one day wore a carlsberg shirt(a beer product), it baffled everyone. they even mentioned how baffled they were, but i dont think i ever told them im an absolutist.(for health reasons, as i value it highly. mostly just my brains, but the other parts are extra.)
one day, a person asked in seriously concerned tone, how many ive drank. i couldnt but laugh in annoyance, and tell her im an absolutist.

honestly speaking, its very hard to say, considering ive changed a lot thorought my life. (i would expect its me adjusting my triad strategy, as one or another in my triad fails.)
but the most common theme in my (good) emotions is fascination. on the bad ones: pain, rejection of me, disconnection of others.
i little detail: at around age 6, i realized that my dreams were extremely stupid, immature, and childish, so i started hating my dreams so badly, that i stopped dreaming. i decided not to dream, and my wish was granted. i realize, this also made my imagination even as a child rather limited, too emotionless. mostly fascination about little robots and sci-fi planes going at war with each other. even me playing with toys was very emotionless, more of an abstract interest about seeing what i can create with an enormous amounts of toys, by arranging them. this hate of imagination started after i was severely ashamed by a school teacher reading my heart felt written story in a sarcastic tone. although like i mentioned, the hate of childishness started already at age 6. i always strived to be more and more mature. i wanted to be the image of ideal maturity as a child, until that point of age 13 where i lost any last hopes i had for humanity growing up.

when i were emotionally well,(during years centered before age 13) which was extremely rare, i had this old soul aura/vibe to me. like i had seen everything already, and life had nothing more to offer me.

i also had this constant feeling of suppression, after age 8 to 17, that if i ever deviated from their expectations, i would instantly be punished. because in my experience, they always punished me if i did. and they never, ever understood me at all. so i learned to shut up, because no one would care about what i had to say. the only people i actually spoke with were my best friends (who changed every year because i changed school every year.) and my father. whom i believed to be a simpleton from a very early age on. well.. howd you expect an intitor child compare themselves to a sensor? =|

but then, i also believed i was the only person on planet earth with feelings, because i didnt see others ever feeling anything before i learned my aura ability (at age 17 or 18) and because no one ever understood my feelings at all. so you can imagine i had no motivation for socializing, since i believed they didnt have feelings and b, that everyone else is as stupid as fuck. so you can imagine why such a world wasnt very appealing to me.

and like i said, i dont identify with that properism image anymore, but i dont think it has changed the fact that i still do have high standards.

things that might distort this analysis: sx so's become pseudo rational, usually believing to poses a high intellect when unhealthy. and if im an infj, they have high idealism standards.

and also, my official diagnosis is "a psychotic personality". which indicates more that i seem psychotic, even when im healthy. but then, an istp had a diagnosis "reclusive personality", LOLs. like yeah, introversion _totally_ needs a name! -.- (hes just super introverted, and its so lame they try to change peoples _personalities_ in my country, despite the fact that its impossible. makes me wonder, how can their psychological methods be so screwed up? =| )

so theres my "brief" overlook, xD

I'll read this last part of your post with calm and attention later, and then respond to it, ok?

Also, you have double posted, you may wanna delete that or something

 

[Dancing_Queen]

"Needing compassion is indeed different from a desire to socialize. But what do you see as "socializing"?"

blabbering. but it seems entirely pointless if theres no emotional exchange.

First, can you please try and fix your posts? It takes a long time until I can reply because I have to put the quotes in the right place, my fingers are hurting.

By "blabbering" you mean small talk? If so, I get it.

"No, it's not a sx dom thing. If we were to use Ennegram, it'd be a So dom trait."

its not the conversing, its the intensity. which can also be exhcganed without convorsing, but it helps to do it too.

You need to be more specific. You talk in generals way too much.

"But you don't have the difference between Te and Ti very clear. You know they're different, but you are wrong on the what makes them so."

i still think Fi is very intertangled with Te. such as, one istj scrutinized me for calling hair chemicals hair chemicals, which is correct because a, they are chemicals, b, they are meant for hair. but apparently, he believed they should be called by something ridiculous which i dont remember, just because he thinks so.

I understand your view, but you're wrong. We Te users care about accuracy. If the product had an specific name or term to be refferd as, that's what we want it to be called by.

An example:

Let's say you and me are at the supermarket together and we stop at the soft drinks aisle. We both see a stand full of bottles with red labels filled by a dark drink.

You say: "Look, that cola drink!"

I correct you: "Not that cola drink, it's called a Coke, can't you read??"

That would be a typical Te vs Ti situation. It's not about our Fi feelings, it's about our Te obsession with accurate facts and vocabulary

"Te has standards, but so does Ti. Every function has, they're only different. You've said before "another Te user wants everybody to think like them" but that's not true. What happens it's that we are concerned with facts and when we see something very wrong we have to correct it, it's irresistible."

i have same with Fe. if i see someone believing something which i see clearly as false, i will correct them. like people who are into astrology. i remind them, that its just imagination. or if i see someone being stuck in an updroductive loop, such as doing too much of thing A, and neglecting necessities b and c, ill make nonchalant comments to let them know how i feel about it.

It's not the same. You correct them on their morals, we correct their facts.

Also, thats' rich. You talked about seeing "radiating colors" when looking at people but think astrology is in their imagination?

How about you show people the same respect you wanna receive? I accepted your beliefs as weird as they were once I understood what you meant, so I think I deserve the same.

"Learning things your own way is not necessarily a Ti thing. I've been self taught for more than 10 years, I've learn 4 languages on my own and have a lot of trouble in school. I hate receiving lessons in general and prefer to come to my own conclusions based on actual experiences and observations. That method sounds a lot like what you've said you do , and I'm a Te user."

well, im not sure how to express it, but what i meant is that you use _sources_, thus you learn from _others_. Ti is self reliant, and doesnt need any sources to come up with conclusions.

You don't need any sources? So why do you use MBTI/Ennegram instead of creating your own personality theory?

It's absolutely impossible for anyone, unless you're a genius, to create something out of thin air.

Unless you're making shit up, then of course you wouldn't need any logic.

People can't come to trustable conclusions on their own. I think our exchanges so far illustrate that well enough.

You can improve a theory or disagree with it for your own personal reasons, but if you wanna create your own, you gonna base it on facts and observations. Which are based on something.

"So you have OCD. Yep, usually a J thing. I don't think I've ever met a P who had it."

ive been analyzed by professionals, they didnt make that conclusion, because my routines are based on rational conclusions, not a _need_. thats the difference between over active super ego(ocd) and just casual super ego. although yeah, i dont think a casual superego would manifest this way in that many other types.

Funny how they locked you up for allegedly defending yourself but didn't pick up on that . A like for cleanness and order is not OCD, but you described your need for washing hands in detail, and that description sounded like mild OCD. I'm no specialist, though.

"You mean you don't actually know an ENFJ in real life?"

i used to. didnt know him well enough to type all of his personality, thus i cant say what is and isnt caused by his enfj'ness.

That's wise.

"Seriously, I wanted to point this out a hundred posts ago but always forgot!!! Yeah, you're obviously in a rush to find an answer, but that's exactly what makes it impossible! "

its said to be a trait of 5w4. that they want answers instantly, while enjoying getting them, still being frustrated of not having them instantly.

im trying to slow down. stop learning too many things at once, and try to focus on the most relevant questions.

ANSWER ME: are you sure you're an 5w4? I asked you many times to tell me how you came to know that, you always ignore me.

"You should find an outlet like writing, drawing, painting, singing etc, so you don't let it run wild, but don't supress it. It's gonna eat you from the inside. "

youre right, but often when i give myself time to do these, im still not letting myself free. im repressing things, because of all sorts of pressures im unaware of. i think its mostly centered around my identity. cause people have always wanted someone else than who i am, so ive became that someone else.

If you were unaware of them they wouldn't force you to change. I hope you find motivation to be yourself.

that emotional repression makes it simply impossible to imagine anything pleasurable. my imaginations are mostly lacking of any feeling content.

im trying to learn how to dream. often my obsession with thinking is so strong, that i think even when i sleep.. =| (its very exhausting, and i know it doesnt help.)

Did you have any hobbies before all this happened? Maybe that can give you a clue of what you like.

now that i think.. i do think a lot, lols. =O.. just not the right things! <.<

Haha, ok .

"Interesting, I'm exactly the same except I don't soak up their problems, I soak up their energy. If someone with a bad vibe stays close to me for long, I can fall ill."

mh, that explains why i can influence enfp's so easily. i find it very easy to control and manipulate my vibe, if i just want to. i try to use it to make people feel better. (unless something is bothering my mind, in which case, im completely withdrawn emotionally.)

Yes, we can't be emotionally manipulated we smell that from miles away, but it can be easy to mess with our energy if we leave our channels open.

"And you're back to where you began, trying to relate Ennegarm and MBTI at any cost. I will not say anything else on the matter, clearly it's a futile attempt."

i meant they both gain asnwers by focusing. 5w4's need to focus their thoughts, and Ni does the exact same thing. not saying its related, just similar. so it'd be a fair assumption, that a 5w4 with Ni in their stacking, would use that function strongly when integrating.

It's similar, yes.

"You mean your moral expectations, right?

That's very dangerous."

well i think this as an universal moral seems quite good: respect other peoples weaknesses, and if they dont respect yours, convince them by telling how you respect theirs.

I think you misunderstood me this time. Read the whole post where my question came from again. I didn't said you were wrong in using universal morals, I was trying to understand what you were referring too.

We probably have different morals, and that's fine.

"Reading is not necessarily external thing. Not if you're reading about yourself or at least on information regarding what type you might be. You're still mostly inside of your head.

You didn't ask my question: are you're sure about your Ennegram now? What did you use to come to this conclusion?"

i suppose youre right, but in my perspective, its as if im looking for answers from out then, when the truth is already within. its the scary pain monster that stops me from reaching to the truth.. (yet to figure out what causes the pain =| )

ok, so heres my brief view on my enneagram:

as a child, only my intellectual side was appreciated by other people. it was the only thing i ever got complimented for. they expected me to not have emotions, so i suppressed them. i had anyways lost all confidence in everything else about myself than my intelligence, so it was my only source of self esteem. i always strived to be more intelligence, so some day my mother would love me. i was very observant from early on. my detachement from others of my age started at age 8 when i realized everyone of my age were less mature. i would just observe them go at their games, of which i had long ago got bored, and id keep pondering all kinds of thoughts while doing so. this is how i spent majority of my school pause time between the years 8 to 13. at 13, i got enough, i realized, they arent going to mature, ever. they only got more and more stupid as they got older. i totally lost all hopes on humanity, whatever irrational hope there was before it. and got into total game addiction/depression. not like i wasnt before, but after that point it went so out of control, that despite my self discipline, i wasnt able to perform my school perfectly. before that, i had absolutely never been late from any class. that was my self image, the intelligent natural at math proper child. i absorbed every expectation that was placed on me. (now that i think, this does sound ennea one, but ive never had any problems with ocd. i was always able to rationalize all of my discipline. and then theres the fact, that it seems like 8w7 is my body triad ennea, based on my problem dealing method being to just hit the face of the person causing mayhem. until they scrutinized me for this, which led to major feeling bottling, and placed me on the position, that even if i get attacked or teased, im just not allowed to do anything about it. but yes, e1 descriptions talk about suppressed anger.. but as you can judge from my OP, ive started to leak it out after a life time of suppression. i did once suspect myself as a 1w9 before, but the high didnt last long. or actually, twice. i guess it could be my body triad, but primary? considering ive been in a learning mania the past few years... during my depression, i always had this boiling anger underneath. a complete dissatisfaction with everything. and from pictures taken in that period, someone with my empathic abilities can easily see im like a volcano waiting eruption. however, no one ever mentioned noticing it.. they mightve had, but it would be very rude to mention something like that. and my father at least, an istp, has absolutely zero emotion reading skills, unless i were to scream, which i never do. my anger however, resembles more of an 8w7 who has serious self doubting issues. i also have problems with not fearing anything, typical 8w7 problem. if ive never experienced something awful off of something, i assume it doesnt exist until i have. like my arrogance towards psychological problems. i expected them to be miniscule in comparison to physical matters, so even though i knew i was going insane, i didnt care.)

the thing i most care about in this existence is my intelligence and health. i wanted a life with perfect body and physically healthy brains, so i could reach my maximum potential without limitations. thats why having my favourite sense damaged is so big deal to me, and im not sure if im ever going to accept it.

also dont 1w9's have that anger even when healthy? i met one who did, yet she was very capable of helping me.
mine disappears completely when im on a good mood. and its more like frustration

i also have this 5w4 thing, that sometimes i can look at any object and be so immersed in my observation, that its as if the object i was gazing is the most fascinating, profound thing to ever exist. i think my 7w6 istp sx so friend has something very similar, but then, hes a very integrated person.

before any crap started, i was like all children, fascinated by the reality, adventurous, and so on. life was like a fantasy story. i felt intensely at anything i found fascinating. such as pokemons, nature, and uh.. mostly just nature, lols. >.< i did play with my best friends, ive always had this sx dom trait, that i always find one friend, and thats it. all of the other friends are so irrelevant that i wont even remember them. i guess i mustve done boring things too with my friends, but i only remember the times i got emotional. and what got me emotional, was adventuring. i eventually started succumbing onto myself, got bored with everything, and my adventures turned into game world. where they, after they got boring, it was all about achieving some superior unique identity. (4w3). it couldnt be 1w9 disintegration, because that unique identity always involved w3 element, the novelty that is 4w3 charasteristic. not to say 1w9 couldnt be somewhere in my stacking, but it became strictly a 4w3 pursuit after i lost the sense of adventure in the game. thus it was all about about escapism and obsession over achieving a unique, magnificent identity.

also before the crap, i had no qualms at all to defend myself by physically hitting others or throwing stones at them when teased or aggrevated.
these days it just all seems so pointless, that i couldnt bother, unless not bothering means having to suffer more.

back between years 8 to 16, it would give me enormous pride when teachers or someone else ocmplimented about how proper i am, or how natural i am at math. i even got 9 out of 10 score as my end result in english, despite my depression making me miss a lot of tests, and despite the fact that i learned _nothing_ about english from the class. i learned it all out on my own, by chatting in games.

but these days, when an estj complimented a long lithany of how proper i am, i felt nothing. im not that person any more. i dont identify with my properism anymore, in fact, i dont care much at all. but i do am a bit proud of my ability to maintain a strict diet and routines. and when i one day wore a carlsberg shirt(a beer product), it baffled everyone. they even mentioned how baffled they were, but i dont think i ever told them im an absolutist.(for health reasons, as i value it highly. mostly just my brains, but the other parts are extra.)
one day, a person asked in seriously concerned tone, how many ive drank. i couldnt but laugh in annoyance, and tell her im an absolutist.

honestly speaking, its very hard to say, considering ive changed a lot thorought my life. (i would expect its me adjusting my triad strategy, as one or another in my triad fails.)
but the most common theme in my (good) emotions is fascination. on the bad ones: pain, rejection of me, disconnection of others.
i little detail: at around age 6, i realized that my dreams were extremely stupid, immature, and childish, so i started hating my dreams so badly, that i stopped dreaming. i decided not to dream, and my wish was granted. i realize, this also made my imagination even as a child rather limited, too emotionless. mostly fascination about little robots and sci-fi planes going at war with each other. even me playing with toys was very emotionless, more of an abstract interest about seeing what i can create with an enormous amounts of toys, by arranging them. this hate of imagination started after i was severely ashamed by a school teacher reading my heart felt written story in a sarcastic tone. although like i mentioned, the hate of childishness started already at age 6. i always strived to be more and more mature. i wanted to be the image of ideal maturity as a child, until that point of age 13 where i lost any last hopes i had for humanity growing up.

when i were emotionally well,(during years centered before age 13) which was extremely rare, i had this old soul aura/vibe to me. like i had seen everything already, and life had nothing more to offer me.

i also had this constant feeling of suppression, after age 8 to 17, that if i ever deviated from their expectations, i would instantly be punished. because in my experience, they always punished me if i did. and they never, ever understood me at all. so i learned to shut up, because no one would care about what i had to say. the only people i actually spoke with were my best friends (who changed every year because i changed school every year.) and my father. whom i believed to be a simpleton from a very early age on. well.. howd you expect an intitor child compare themselves to a sensor? =|

but then, i also believed i was the only person on planet earth with feelings, because i didnt see others ever feeling anything before i learned my aura ability (at age 17 or 18) and because no one ever understood my feelings at all. so you can imagine i had no motivation for socializing, since i believed they didnt have feelings and b, that everyone else is as stupid as fuck. so you can imagine why such a world wasnt very appealing to me.

and like i said, i dont identify with that properism image anymore, but i dont think it has changed the fact that i still do have high standards.

things that might distort this analysis: sx so's become pseudo rational, usually believing to poses a high intellect when unhealthy. and if im an infj, they have high idealism standards.

and also, my official diagnosis is "a psychotic personality". which indicates more that i seem psychotic, even when im healthy. but then, an istp had a diagnosis "reclusive personality", LOLs. like yeah, introversion _totally_ needs a name! -.- (hes just super introverted, and its so lame they try to change peoples _personalities_ in my country, despite the fact that its impossible. makes me wonder, how can their psychological methods be so screwed up? =| )

so theres my "brief" overlook, xD

I'll read this last part of your post with calm and attention later, and then respond to it, ok?

Also, you have double posted, you may wanna delete that or something

 

[Halla74]

Halla74

You quoted something I wrote...

Hey there! :hi:

Earlier I did indeed quote you on the following:

I have to be careful how I come off to people because I scare them away. Most of the time I pretend to be oblivious to people and act like Im more subtle then I really am, because I tend to come on too strong.

...and my reply was...

Inconsistencies of any kind tend to throw people off. Have you ever considered just "assessing where you are at" and "composing yourself accordingly?"
Honestly, I'm not trying to oversimplify this.
I sincerely think that a disconnect of perception can be more detrimental to a first impression than most people's "genuine demeanor".
Any thoughts as such?

and then...

...perhaps you're right.

It just seems that when I come off with my natural vibe to others, it scares them away? It seems...

Just something to consider.
I'm generally not one to make statements/guesses/etc. of the nature "This phenomena is true 100% of the time" -or- "In all cases people will do X before they do Y."
But, depending on one's mood, what's going on in your life, how you're feeling, etc. there is usually a spectrum of behaviors that could result upon any given stimulus.
For the most part, I am very, very consistent in demeanor.
BUT...
I am human, and sometimes wind up having a shitty day just like anyone else, and on those days I probably come across a bit different than I normally do.

Now perhaps Im the one who is shy and thinks they are being scared away when it is, in fact, I who is scared of them! What a head trip.

Absolutely! It's possible!
In the scope of what we're all discussing, IMHO, yes, being an SX-dom can make other people uncomfortable if they do not know you.
I feel that a lot of folks simply aren't as comfortable as SX-doms are at establishing somewhat deep connectivity with another person, and getting into conversation/solving a problem together from that perspective.

In simplest terms I think that concepts like "trust" and "vulnerability" and "sincerity" are probably a bit easier for SX-doms to embrace and to implement in the course of their everyday lives, and to others - these same concepts are a bit less "comfortable" - and that effect, witnessing someone embrace these things, and express them as part of their nature just might be a little unnatural, or even strange, or maybe to some even "intimidating" - if the definition below is referenced:

NOTE: I striked out a part of the definition that I don't feel is relevant in this context, call me picky, Ha Ha.
FROM: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/intimidate?s=t

in·tim·i·date - [in-tim-i-deyt]

(2) "to overawe or cow, as through the force of personality or by superior display of wealth, talent, etc."

I think you're right though; its best to just go with your natural energy rather than trip yourself out over such issues!

I honestly believe that living as such is the key to a happy, successful, and meaningful existence.
I am what I am. I am a product of my genetics, upbringing, and life experiences. My core personality (as I've been told by *MANY* of my relatives and friends) has been the same since I was a very young child. Sure, as we all do, I've picked up facts, details, wisdom, and understanding along the way of my life that have refined my perspective, polished my implementation/presentation in certain contexts (academics, business, etc.) but at the end of each day I'm the same old me I've always been, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I am well intended, I am fair, I am also very kind, but I am also extremely determined, competitive, and productive.
On any given day I know where I stand with people, love me or hate me, I am what I am - and I'm fine with that.

It's not necessary yet alone possible to be loved by everyone. That's a fool's endeavor.
I think it's more important to be civil and respectful in your dealings with others, and those people who aren't fond of you when you've put your best foot forward and extended them the same courtesy that you wish to be given by others - so be it. Agree to disagree and move on.
But to those who know your true nature, and choose to be near you, or present in your life - those people are your life's treasure.

I'm working on it. And yes, sometimes my mind gives me heaven, sometimes hell .

Trust me, you're not alone.

I hear you, I'm also happy to be able to do the same in certain situations.

Good karma is good stuff.

I understand wanting to stay on topic, talking to Vilku drives me crazy sometimes as anyone can see lol, but I still think there were better ways to do that then that.

Indeed there were, as I've previously admitted that the portion of my response that you had issue with was not entirely clear, or well written.
Please take this into account.
We're all conversing on an Internet forum, and losing all non-verbal cues that we would have the benefit of if we were all speaking to each other in person.
Also, I've had a migraine headache for about 3 days straight, and was trying to pop my right eyeball back into my head this morning as I wrote that.
I understand your position; I have ardent principles of my own and I'll be damned if anyone talks me out of them.
But, when it comes to chats with peeps in threads online, these days I often ask for clarification before letting my blood pressure rise.
Just my .02; I think your reply to me was great. It was very direct and you communicated what you had issue with very clearly. I applaud that. I wish more people did it more often.

As open minded as I am about most things, I’m quite rigid when it comes to how people express themselves. That's my intolerant side and obviously it can cause riffs.

It's all good, as noted above.

I stand corrected.

No need, we're just chatting.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, seriously.

Indeed I don't know you, but if you read correctly I said "Arrogant, much?". I meant you're statement, not you. It sounded arrogant in itself, at least to me.

Ahhhhh, yes you did. Now I really do get where you were coming from with that.
Like I said, I was in a hurry, and had a migraine, plus I am a pretty blunt.
In person I would have said all that I wrote in a manner that was direct, yet polite and most likely a bit entertaining where appropriate.
But neither of us are mind readers, but I think it's nice that you're taking the time and effort to clearly define your position and to clarify the intent of your wording where I missed some its gist the first time I read it.

I meant to say wise people don't make less of other beliefs, but it's clear I misunderstood you, so forget it.

RE the bolded in your quote above; that's a great saying, I totally agree with you.

Have a great day!

I'll do my best; I promise.
Hope you've had a great day too!



All my best,



-Halla74

 

[Azure Flame]

I dont get it....how does she pick up on it?

Do u ask her weird questions or something...that maybe make u sound like ur testing her?

or do u just come right out with ur perceptions of her?

Idunno I just radiate judging energy I guess. I have girls constantly tell me I do this. My brother said I'm the most judgemental person he knows.

I don't really feel this to be true. I think I'm just really good at reading people and that kinda bothers them.


[MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION]

lol... how long do I have to make eye contact for it to qualify as staring? I never make eye contact for more than a second. And I don't get upset when people read me either. Doesn't mean other people don't get uncomfortable when you read them.

I just had an INTJ client who told me he resents ESTP's because they seem to know everything he's thinking at all times.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

Indeed there were, as I've previously admitted that the portion of my response that you had issue with was not entirely clear, or well written.
Please take this into account.
We're all conversing on an Internet forum, and losing all non-verbal cues that we would have the benefit of if we were all speaking to each other in person.
Also, I've had a migraine headache for about 3 days straight, and was trying to pop my right eyeball back into my head this morning as I wrote that.
I understand your position; I have ardent principles of my own and I'll be damned if anyone talks me out of them.
But, when it comes to chats with peeps in threads online, these days I often ask for clarification before letting my blood pressure rise.
Just my .02; I think your reply to me was great. It was very direct and you communicated what you had issue with very clearly. I applaud that. I wish more people did it more often.

That's some amazing advice right there

No need, we're just chatting.
Thanks for sharing your perspective, seriously.

That's actually the first time I say that to anyone, don't steal my thunder!

OT but, how come you quote people without the brackets in stuff appearing in the code? I'm interested, minding the it takes for me to fix certain posts before i can reply to them.

 

[Vilku]

I'll say it for the last time: ESFJ are primarily Fe users, yes, but Se is their second function. They are sensors. You called an ESFJ retarded three times and later claimed you only had problems with sensors.

What do you want people to think? You may have different thoughts in your head but people can't read minds, they'll judge you by what you say or in this case, write.

Which is why [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] was right, you should think before you hit post, you said it yourself you're not that good at expressing your thoughts online.



I didn’t said you saw literally retarded people (mental handicapped) as bad anywhere in my post. I said you use the word “retarded” to describe people/things people say way too often and that’s not nice.

Assuming the worst it’s what you said you do, I don’t.



"Universal methods"? I've never seen anyone use _ to separate words unless it was in a username, URL or to make emoticons. I'm genuinely curious as where else it's used.



Introspection =/= depression.

I think it's more indicative of personality type, though. My type happens to be one of the biggest chatterboxes of MBTI, and I noticed the descriptions are in general right about what types like to talk the most and what they wanna talk about.



You are right about Fi being about personal morals. And having universal morals is indicative of Fe.

So you might be a Ti person, but not for these reasons.



First, can you please try and fix your posts? It takes a long time until I can reply because I have to put the quotes in the right place, my fingers are hurting.

By "blabbering" you mean small talk? If so, I get it.

"Te has standards, but so does Ti. Every function has, they're only different. You've said before "another Te user wants everybody to think like them" but that's not true. What happens it's that we are concerned with facts and when we see something very wrong we have to correct it, it's irresistible."

i have same with Fe. if i see someone believing something which i see clearly as false, i will correct them. like people who are into astrology. i remind them, that its just imagination. or if i see someone being stuck in an updroductive loop, such as doing too much of thing A, and neglecting necessities b and c, ill make nonchalant comments to let them know how i feel about it.






Funny how they locked you up for allegedly defending yourself but didn't pick up on that . A like for cleanness and order is not OCD, but you described your need for washing hands in detail, and that sounded like mild OCD. I'm no specialist, though.



That's wise.









Haha, ok .



Yes, we can't be emotionally manipulated we smell that from miles away, but it can be easy to mess with our energy if we leave our channels open.



It's similar, yes.



I think you misunderstood me this time. Read the whole post where my question came from again. I didn't said you were wrong in using universal morals, I was trying to understand what you were referring too.

We probably have different morals, and that's fine.

"I'll read this last part of your post with calm and attention later, and then respond to it, ok?

Also, you have double posted, you may wanna delete that or something "

i think i already did? =O.. its weird, considering i didnt even double press the submit button.

and it happened to you too. =)

"You need to be more specific. You talk in generals way too much."

well, like intense emotions. it doesnt matter what is being felt, as long as its intense, it makes me feel better. more alive.

"I understand your view, but you're wrong. We Te users care about accuracy. If the product had an specific name or term to be refferd as, that's what we want it to be called like.

An example:

Let's say you and me are at the supermarket together and we stop at the soft drinks aisle. We both see a stand full of bottles with red labels filled by a dark drink.

You say: "Look, that cola drink!"

I correct you: "Not that cola drink, it's called a Coke, can't you see??"

That would be a typical Te vs Ti situation. It's not about our Fi feelings, it's about our Te obsession with accurate facts and vocabulary "

youre wrong, Fe's care about accuraccy too. we just have different ideas of accuraccy. like to me, its irrelevant what product you call it. i want to know what it _actually_ is. like lets say you have a product of food with various dangerous chemicals, the foods name is fatttarattttaraa, but i think its misleading, since the food has poisons in it, therefore its more accurate to call it poison food. especially since the name is so vague, and has nothing to do with the actual contents of the product. thats why i wont remember peoples names, but i always remember their types, ennea and instincts in case i figured them out. if i didnt, then the person is just an unknown phenomena to me. a stranger.

ive tried to name my core motive, principle, or whatever it is that drives me, for years. ive given it various names, but always at some points, i recognize, that what i named has changed into something else, so the name doesnt apply anymore. so i need to give it a new name. thats Fe accyracy. like most of my childhood i called it intelligence. everything in my life was about being more and more intelligent. but right now, its just a haze, and i havent been able to name it properly, but my current best guess is that its "scrutinizing". that whatever i think of learning, i scrutinize to death to make sure its right, before i really learn it. and i scrutinize, scrutinize and scrutinize everything inside me until it all makes perfect sense.

"It's not the same. You correct them on their morals, we correct their facts.


How about you show people the same respect you wanna have? I accepted your beliefs as weird as they were once I understood what you meant, so I think I deserve the same."

perhaps more correct term, as to _what_ i correct is values. if the person values wrong things, then he she is wasting time.
like, its irrelevant to focus on astrology. its much more relevant to understand why and how it exists, rather than getting succumbed into the sea, thus being unable to swim out of the deep waters. (its just like depression, just facing your pain does nothing. you need to understand _why_, to defeat the demon. otherwise the demon dominates _you_)

so if someone is depressed and you know the solution, do you think its right of you to withold the answer, just to "respect" the persons state, so they could stay depressed longer?

"Also, thats' rich. You believe in seeing "radiating colors" when looking at people but think astrology is in their imagination?"

let me ask you a question: do you think? do you think everyone thinks the same way? no, we dont. some people think in pictures, some in colours like me, and so on. colours just make the most sense to me. i cant understand a shit if i cant feel and see my interpretation of what im trying to understand.

"You don't need any sources? So why do you use MBTI/Ennegram instead of creating your own personality theory?

It's absolutely impossible for anyone, unless you're a genius, to create something out of thin air.

Unless you're making shit up, then of course you wouldn't need any logic.

People can't come to trustable conclusions on their own. I think our exchanges so far illustrate that well enough."

thats actually because other peoples theories mess my head up. as you can see, me focusing a few years studying mbti hasnt really worked out that well. now that im withdrawing from it and finding my own conclusions (which i can easily translate into mbti ennea and instincts) its working much better. hell, like i told you, i understood peoples mbti, ennea and isntincts before i even knew about this theory. i just had my own explanations for the same thing.

i guess it makes most sense that im likely an infj, and infj's are known for their ability to come up with stuff like this on their own. wasnt that exactly how carl jung too did it?

if im an infj: then my theory of extro and introversion is that its not where your energy comes from, its about what will make more _sense_ to you. like youve seen, me trying to find solutions from out there, from others, hasnt yeilded results that much. but now that im looking within, everything starts to make more sense. ive been now somewhat able to isolate the big monster called pain inside my head, which i believe others would call depression, if ive got it right? so im able to get in there without being overwhelmed by this pain. so i can take it in mild amounts when im _able_ to.

when i define what has defined me, i guess enfj's focus on those superficial things. i think what has defined, or more correctly, changed me from myself are the values of society, expectations, clashes.. that have made me into suppressing myself. leaving only the parts of me that others dont hate. i dont know, which do you think it seems, infj or enfj?

this change has made me cry more in a week than approximate 2 to 5 years combined.
not necessarily in the amounts when counted in numbers. but before this ive only had tears, because i was afraid to feel. now im not that afraid any more.

i think theres something really valuable i can learn from you Fi fellas. unlike Fe, you wont comprimise your personal values to fit in. ive suppressed so, so much of myself just to fit into society.

"ANSWER ME: are you sure you're an 5w4? I asked you many times to tell me how you came to know that, you always ignore me."

it seems likely. before this mania, i was just depressed. but then with this permanent injury, i lost all hopes on trying to keep my head together, so it all fell apart and i just started doing what the fuck i ever want. which made me super distanced from my emotions. so much, that the only time i was emotional in the worst period of that mania, was, due frustration at my inability to feel emotions. mania seems to be exactly the way 5s break down. its said so in profiles, as well as ive met several 5s who have said to have had manias and who currently had ones when i met them.

then another 5w4 thing: ive always defined myself by my thoughts. i am what i think. thorought my life, the primary thing in my life has always been this internal map that i keep developing. this map, it explains my whole existence. and now im starting to rebuild myself a map again, so i wouldnt be without guidance.

also the hunk you will read later on deals with things related to who i am.

"If you were unaware of them they wouldn't force you to change. I hope you find motivation to be yourself."

this is perhaps Ni - Ne difference.

if i make a decision, however bad, it will last thorought my life, as a permanent alteration, unless i get back in my mind to the moment i created it, and decide to destroy this decision. like i mentioned, my suppression of imagination started as early as age 6. so i need to go back to the cause of the problem, and fix it.

"Did you have any hobbies before all this happened? Maybe that can give you a clue of what you like."

yes, game modding. it made me feel so, so good when i was able to figure out how games actually work, and create what i want. but it was mostly about understanding it. it pleased me so much to have this ability to understand things. see how things work, things that i previously thought were like magic. i guess, this supports my 5w4'ness. nothing gratifis me more than knowing. it makes me feel like im in control, not being in the mercy of chance/destiny?(i dont like that word, sounds superstitious, but i think you get what i mean.)

since youre an eight, i believe you understand this appeal of power. its like freedom. not being chained by anything. i mean, i guess my life doesnt really have any higher purpose. i just want to free my mind from the chains that bound me.

and back onto what defines me: events, that occured to me thorought my life have a huge impact. like i behave way A, it leads to negativity, ill keep myself from doing thing A for the rest of my life until ive figured out how to do it without that even happening as a result from it again. like say, if i show my genuine feelings to people, and they scold me for them, then i will fear being genuine for the rest of my life, if i cant solve the problem.

 

[Dancing_Queen]

Nooo!

Again? What is going on?

 

[Dancing_Queen]

"I'll read this last part of your post with calm and attention later, and then respond to it, ok?

Also, you have double posted, you may wanna delete that or something "

i think i already did? =O.. its weird, considering i didnt even double press the submit button.

and it happened to you too. =)

First: Please use the "quote" function on the Quick Reply editing panel. It's the dialogue ballon right beside the film strip. Your posts are really confusing to read without it, I don't know what is old or new text, and as I said before, it takes time to edit everything you write before I can reply.

Yes, you did post the same thing twice and I thought it were two different ones, again because of the lack of quote code.

I know it happened to me too, but you'll notice I deleted the text and indicated it was a double post. It makes reading in the forum easier.

"You need to be more specific. You talk in generals way too much."

well, like intense emotions. it doesnt matter what is being felt, as long as its intense, it makes me feel better. more alive.

I don't think you understand what I said. Specific: I like blue vs General: I like cold colors.

You don't give me details sometimes and only talk in generals, that's why we have so many misunderstandings. Get it?

Your answer was totally unrelated, but illustrative. A trait like this can help indicate type

"I understand your view, but you're wrong. We Te users care about accuracy. If the product had an specific name or term to be refferd as, that's what we want it to be called like.

An example:

Let's say you and me are at the supermarket together and we stop at the soft drinks aisle. We both see a stand full of bottles with red labels filled by a dark drink.

You say: "Look, that cola drink!"

I correct you: "Not that cola drink, it's called a Coke, can't you see??"

That would be a typical Te vs Ti situation. It's not about our Fi feelings, it's about our Te obsession with accurate facts and vocabulary "

youre wrong, Fe's care about accuraccy too. we just have different ideas of accuraccy. like to me, its irrelevant what product you call it. i want to know what it _actually_ is. like lets say you have a product of food with various dangerous chemicals, the foods name is fatttarattttaraa, but i think its misleading, since the food has poisons in it, therefore its more accurate to call it poison food. especially since the name is so vague, and has nothing to do with the actual contents of the product. thats why i wont remember peoples names, but i always remember their types, ennea and instincts in case i figured them out. if i didnt, then the person is just an unknown phenomena to me. a stranger.

No, I'm not wrong. I NEVER said Fe doesn't care about accuracy, I only explained to you why your friend gets mad when you don't called things by their real known name.

As you said, Fe has a different idea of what accuracy is than Te. You didn't get your friend's reason for having a problem with the way you talk and I explained that to you.

I merely said Fi has nothing to do with it, which it hasn't. It's not about feelings.

ive tried to name my core motive, principle, or whatever it is that drives me, for years. ive given it various names, but always at some points, i recognize, that what i named has changed into something else, so the name doesnt apply anymore. so i need to give it a new name. thats Fe accyracy. like most of my childhood i called it intelligence. everything in my life was about being more and more intelligent. but right now, its just a haze, and i havent been able to name it properly, but my current best guess is that its "scrutinizing". that whatever i think of learning, i scrutinize to death to make sure its right, before i really learn it. and i scrutinize, scrutinize and scrutinize everything inside me until it all makes perfect sense.

Ok, I get you.

"It's not the same. You correct them on their morals, we correct their facts.


How about you show people the same respect you wanna have? I accepted your beliefs as weird as they were once I understood what you meant, so I think I deserve the same."

perhaps more correct term, as to _what_ i correct is values. if the person values wrong things, then he she is wasting time.
like, its irrelevant to focus on astrology. its much more relevant to understand why and how it exists, rather than getting succumbed into the sea, thus being unable to swim out of the deep waters. (its just like depression, just facing your pain does nothing. you need to understand _why_, to defeat the demon. otherwise the demon dominates _you_)

And who are you to say they value the wrong things? God? That’s the most arrogant thing someone can do: thinking they know what’s best for others. You don’t even know what’s best for yourself.

That’s your opinion, not a fact.

Believing in astrology =/= succumbing to depression.

You said before some people thought everybody was emotionally weak remember? Well you’re doing the same thing here.

Maybe astrology is bad for you and can trigger depression, but not for all people. I happen to believe in numerology, tarot and astrology (to a much lesser extent) and I’m perfectly happy and healthy.

so if someone is depressed and you know the solution, do you think its right of you to withold the answer, just to "respect" the persons state, so they could stay depressed longer?

Are you a psychiatrist? I think not. How do you know that's their problem and not something else? Even if you were able to read minds, you would never know everything that a person has on their inside and how that relates to one another.

I came to the world to live my own life. In this life I meet people and like to help them whenever I can. But religion/beliefs are something I would never meddle with. It's a deeply personal and delicate issue.

There's a line between us and other people, no matter how close we are to them. I don't admit people telling me to stop believing in whatever I want to, so I don.'t the same.

And I'm also not responsible for anyone's mental/emotional health but my own.

"Also, thats' rich. You believe in seeing "radiating colors" when looking at people but think astrology is in their imagination?"

let me ask you a question: do you think? do you think everyone thinks the same way? no, we dont. some people think in pictures, some in colours like me, and so on. colours just make the most sense to me. i cant understand a shit if i cant feel and see my interpretation of what im trying to understand.

The sky is blue, the grass is green, ice is cold...

YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION: people think differently, so if you can interpret what you feel and sense and colors, then others can interpret things using astrological signs and constellations.

Different systems, same thing. Neither of you is wrong.

"You don't need any sources? So why do you use MBTI/Ennegram instead of creating your own personality theory?

It's absolutely impossible for anyone, unless you're a genius, to create something out of thin air.

Unless you're making shit up, then of course you wouldn't need any logic.

People can't come to trustable conclusions on their own. I think our exchanges so far illustrate that well enough."

thats actually because other peoples theories mess my head up. as you can see, me focusing a few years studying mbti hasnt really worked out that well. now that im withdrawing from it and finding my own conclusions (which i can easily translate into mbti ennea and instincts) its working much better. hell, like i told you, i understood peoples mbti, ennea and isntincts before i even knew about this theory. i just had my own explanations for the same thing.

I finally got it: it takes at least two posts for me to understand most of what you say because the first time you write, you're in such a rush. When you take your time to explain you make sense and sounds much better. I totally get your point now .

i guess it makes most sense that im likely an infj, and infj's are known for their ability to come up with stuff like this on their own. wasnt that exactly how carl jung too did it?

It's a NF thing, actually. We all have this ability to make sense of things and explain them in a way no one else has before.

Yes, Jung really was something else But people only speculate on his type, he died before the MBTI system was created. All I know it's he was type AWESOME.

if im an infj: then my theory of extro and introversion is that its not where your energy comes from, its about what will make more _sense_ to you. like youve seen, me trying to find solutions from out there, from others, hasnt yeilded results that much. but now that im looking within, everything starts to make more sense. ive been now somewhat able to isolate the big monster called pain inside my head, which i believe others would call depression, if ive got it right? so im able to get in there without being overwhelmed by this pain. so i can take it in mild amounts when im _able_ to.

when i define what has defined me, i guess enfj's focus on those superficial things. i think what has defined, or more correctly, changed me from myself are the values of society, expectations, clashes.. that have made me into suppressing myself. leaving only the parts of me that others dont hate. i dont know, which do you think it seems, infj or enfj?

I think I have a good idea of what types you might be now, but first I'd like you to read a couple things and then give me your opinion on it. I'll post the links later, but only if you don't write another essay in answer to this, or I'll never get to it

this change has made me cry more in a week than approximate 2 to 5 years combined.
not necessarily in the amounts when counted in numbers. but before this ive only had tears, because i was afraid to feel. now im not that afraid any more.

I'm sorry to hear it . But I find tears to be a sign we're alive and that we can feel, you know? At least you're not repressing your feelings anymore.

I hope you find may reasons to smile, though

i think theres something really valuable i can learn from you Fi fellas. unlike Fe, you wont comprimise your personal values to fit in. ive suppressed so, so much of myself just to fit into society.

Yes, it's a shame Fe users care so much about what others think . I usually like them very much but this necessity of fitting in and being accepted gets on my nerves so I keep my distance. If I don't, I'll try and make them see reason and be themselves and that leads into either fights or tears .

"ANSWER ME: are you sure you're an 5w4? I asked you many times to tell me how you came to know that, you always ignore me."

it seems likely. before this mania, i was just depressed. but then with this permanent injury, i lost all hopes on trying to keep my head together, so it all fell apart and i just started doing what the fuck i ever want. which made me super distanced from my emotions. so much, that the only time i was emotional in the worst period of that mania, was, due frustration at my inability to feel emotions. mania seems to be exactly the way 5s break down. its said so in profiles, as well as ive met several 5s who have said to have had manias and who currently had ones when i met them.

I see. Well the link I talked to is about "Ennegram's Myths vs Truth". It tries to dispel some stereotypes and offer a broader view. I actually thanked the person who wrote it because it helped me understand you better . Here it is:

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/106016-enneagram-myths-vs-facts.html

then another 5w4 thing: ive always defined myself by my thoughts. i am what i think. thorought my life, the primary thing in my life has always been this internal map that i keep developing. this map, it explains my whole existence. and now im starting to rebuild myself a map again, so i wouldnt be without guidance.

That's totally a T thing. For real, no Feeler would ever think that. We are what we feel.

I honestly don't think you're a feeler.

You're actually quite rational despite what you come across like at first. As I said your problem is you want it all now. But deep inside, you need to make sense. Am I right?

also the hunk you will read later on deals with things related to who i am.

"If you were unaware of them they wouldn't force you to change. I hope you find motivation to be yourself."

this is perhaps Ni - Ne difference.

if i make a decision, however bad, it will last thorought my life, as a permanent alteration, unless i get back in my mind to the moment i created it, and decide to destroy this decision. like i mentioned, my suppression of imagination started as early as age 6. so i need to go back to the cause of the problem, and fix it.

Definitely a Ni vs Ne thing .

I sometimes drive people crazy because I change my mind without telling them why and they end up thinking it was for no reason. In reality I have a reason why I changed it, but I really hate explaining myself to others, so I let them think whatever they want. As you know, we Fi users just don't care .

I drop projects all the time, as well as relationships when I realize they won't work. I don't have the energy or perhaps motivation to keep insisting in things that I see as fruitless.

"Did you have any hobbies before all this happened? Maybe that can give you a clue of what you like."

yes, game modding. it made me feel so, so good when i was able to figure out how games actually work, and create what i want. but it was mostly about understanding it. it pleased me so much to have this ability to understand things. see how things work, things that i previously thought were like magic. i guess, this supports my 5w4'ness. nothing gratifis me more than knowing. it makes me feel like im in control, not being in the mercy of chance/destiny?(i dont like that word, sounds superstitious, but i think you get what i mean.)

Again, a T trait. You're such a thinker! Why do you think you're an F, just because you have a lot of ups and downs?

Thinkers have feelings too, they aren't robots or machines, and they're also sensitive.

Being "nutty" as you described yourself before, doesn't indicate F on its own.

You're either a Thinker or a Feeler who's been acting as your shadow type for a long time.

You really have a problem with anything you see as superstition, no?

since youre an eight, i believe you understand this appeal of power. its like freedom. not being chained by anything. i mean, i guess my life doesnt really have any higher purpose. i just want to free my mind from the chains that bound me.

I do my friend, I do . Freedom is the single most valuable thing in the world to me. To live freely is #1, then comes other kinds of power to me.

I disagree.

Freeing our minds is the highest purpose of terrestrial human experience to me, but since you seem to detest metaphysical territories, I'll keep my views to myself .

and back onto what defines me: events, that occured to me thorought my life have a huge impact. like i behave way A, it leads to negativity, ill keep myself from doing thing A for the rest of my life until ive figured out how to do it without that even happening as a result from it again. like say, if i show my genuine feelings to people, and they scold me for them, then i will fear being genuine for the rest of my life, if i cant solve the problem.

Just keep this in mind: maybe people aren't reacting bad to what you feel, but how you express those feelings.

I don't know your life except for the things you've told me so far, so I don't wanna judge what I don't know. But it's definitely a possibility in some cases.

Think of us both: a few posts ago it seemed impossible to understand each other without loosing our tempers, now we're having a pleasant conversation !

I need some time to read your last two posts again and then come back, but I have an important question: did you read on Socionics during your studies? Do you identify more with those description or less?

See ya

 

[Vilku]

First: Please use the "quote" function on the Quick Reply editing panel. It's the dialogue ballon right beside the film strip. Your posts are really confusing to read without it, I don't know what is old or new text, and as I said before, it takes time to edit everything you write before I can reply.

Yes, you did post the same thing twice and I thought it were two different ones, again because of the lack of quote code.

I know it happened to me too, but you'll notice I deleted the text and indicated it was a double post. It makes reading in the forum easier.






No, I'm not wrong. I NEVER said Fe doesn't care about accuracy, I only explained to you why your friend gets mad when you don't called things by their real known name.

As you said, Fe has a different idea of what accuracy is than Te. You didn't get your friend's reason for having a problem with the way you talk and I explained that to you.

I merely said Fi has nothing to do with it, which it hasn't. It's not about feelings.


Ok, I get you.



And who are you to say they value the wrong things? God? That’s the most arrogant thing someone can do: thinking they know what’s best for others. You don’t even know what’s best for yourself.

That’s your opinion, not a fact.

Believing in astrology =/= succumbing to depression.

You said before some people thought everybody was emotionally weak remember? Well you’re doing the same thing here.



Are you a psychiatrist? I think not. How do you know that's their problem and not something else? Even if you were able to read minds, you would never know everything that a person has on their inside and how that relates to one another.

I came to the world to live my own life. In this life I meet people and like to help them whenever I can. But religion/beliefs are something I would never meddle with. It's a deeply personal and delicate issue.

There's a line between us and other people, no matter how close we are to them. I don't admit people telling me to stop believing in whatever I want to, so I don.'t the same.

And I'm also not responsible for anyone's mental/emotional health but my own.



The sky is blue, the grass is green, ice is cold...

YOU ANSWERED MY QUESTION: people think differently, so if you can interpret what you feel and sense and colors, then others can interpret things using astrological signs and constellations.

Different systems, same thing. Neither of you is wrong.



I finally got it: it takes at least two posts for me to understand most of what you say because the first time you write, you're in such a rush. When you take your time to explain you make sense and sounds much better. I totally get your point now .



It's a NF thing, actually. We all have this ability to make sense of things and explain them in a way no one else has before.






Yes, it's a shame Fe users care so much about what others think . I usually like them very much but this necessity of fitting in and being accepted gets on my nerves so I keep my distance. If I don't, I'll try and make them see reason and be themselves and that leads into either fights or tears .



I see. Well the link I talked to is about "Ennegram's Myths vs Truth". It tries to dispel some stereotypes and offer a broader view. I actually thanked the person who wrote it because it helped me understand you better . Here it is:

http://personalitycafe.com/articles/106016-enneagram-myths-vs-facts.html






Definitely a Ni vs Ne thing .

I sometimes drive people crazy because I change my mind without telling them why and they end up thinking it was for no reason. In reality I have a reason why I changed it, but I really hate explaining myself to others, so I let them think whatever they want. As you know, we Fi users just don't care .

I drop projects all the time, as well as relationships when I realize they won't work. I don't have the energy or perhaps motivation to keep insisting in things that I see as fruitless.





I do my friend, I do . Freedom is the single most valuable thing in the world to me. To live freely is #1, then comes other kinds of power to me.

I disagree.

Freeing our minds is the highest purpose of terrestrial human experience to me, but since you seem to detest metaphysical territories, I'll keep my views to myself .



Just keep this in mind: maybe people aren't reacting bad to what you feel, but how you express those feelings.

I don't know your life except for the things you've told me so far, so I don't wanna judge what I don't know. But it's definitely a possibility in some cases.


See ya

"Maybe astrology is bad for you and can trigger depression, but not for all people. I happen to believe in numerology, tarot and astrology (to a much lesser extent) and I’m perfectly happy and healthy."

i dont claim that you couldnt find answers with that method. i just think, that there are more efficient methods to do the same thing. i used to be into it too, i also used to believe im a wizard and i.. can do spells. =]

well i still believe in all the same stuf, but i just think my current explanations are much better, less misleading, thus allowing me to be more efficient, which means im even better at it now.

whats your own analysis of me?

also one 5 thing: people have told me many times that i think alot, that im ingenious, nuclear phycisist and so on. i always dismissed these, because everyone thinks. it didnt make much sense at all why people would compliment me like that, considering its an univeral trait that everyone posesses. but i guess as it does seem like it, that im a 5w4, that my thoughts just come across as extra analytical in comparison to other peoples thoughts. i wasnt able to make any sense of those compliments, until now, once again someone omplimented me for my thinking, so i started to connect the dots to see why they do compliment me like that.

do you think their compliments might have basis in reality? meaning, could you see others complimenting me like that?

on the quote thing: i tried it once, but i couldnt make it work, so it frustrated me and i developed m own technique, by using quote symbols '"' to mark the other peoples text.

"I don't think you understand what I said. Specific: I like blue vs General: I like cold colors.

You don't give me details sometimes and only talk in generals, that's why we have so many misunderstandings. Get it?

Your answer was totally unrelated, but illustrative. A trait like this can help indicate type "

complexity. i can enjoy pleasurous feelings others have, all kinds of them, but if its too static, doesnt change form, i get very quickly bored.
i sometimes even enjoy other peoples craziness. like there was this istj at a mental hosp who had an immense feeling of emptiness. first i found it kind of scary to be lost in such emptiness, but after a while in there, i started to enjoy it. it was like an illusion, and i would let the illusion go any way it wanted to, just observing it. (by doing this, i actually fix other peoples emotional problems. usually their crazy feelings annoy the hell out of me first, but if i invest energy and effort to get through the initial annoying state of the craziness, then it transforms into something beautiful.)

"Yes, Jung really was something else But people only speculate on his type, he died before the MBTI system was created. All I know it's he was type AWESOME."

same could be said about any type who reaches their full potential. like einstein.


"I think I have a good idea of what types you might be now, but first I'd like you to read a couple things and then give me your opinion on it. I'll post the links later, but only if you don't write another essay in answer to this, or I'll never get to it "

oki! YEEAAAHH... sorry about that xD..

"I'm sorry to hear it . But I find tears to be a sign we're alive and that we can feel, you know? At least you're not repressing your feelings anymore.

I hope you find may reasons to smile, though "

yeah, other than FAKING it. ive got enough of faking happy. ive always had to feign that im ok, because no one wants to see the real me.

"That's totally a T thing. For real, no Feeler would ever think that. We are what we feel.

I honestly don't think you're a feeler.

You're actually quite rational despite what you come across like at first. As I said your problem is you want it all now. But deep inside, you need to make sense. Am I right? "

i think its msot likely Ti vs Fi difference. intro functions = personal, extro function impersonal.

and if im a five, then five is a: an ego ennea, and b: thinking ennea. which means: your _ego_ comes from your thoughts, no matter the type. and ego, my dear, equates to self image. such as nines define thesmelves by their physical actvities, fours define themselve by how they feel of themselves, and fives by their way of thinking.

its just like we spoke earlier: Fe adapts other peoples values. how many Fe's have you met who _havent_ compromised themselves to fit in?

like in past, when i noticed my thinking had gotten worse, it totally destroyed my self esteem, and i made a theory that alcohol had permanently damaged me. so i lost any bit of confidence i had in my intellect, and got into a mania. sounds like a 5 thing, doesnt it? i started to overcompensate this feeling of being inherently flawed by focusing on my 4w3, to build myself an amazing identity that i could be proud of.


"Again, a T trait. You're such a thinker! Why do you think you're an F, just because you have a lot of ups and downs?

Thinkers have feelings too, they aren't robots or machines, and they're also sensitive.

Being "nutty" as you described yourself before, doesn't indicate F on its own.

You're either a Thinker or a Feeler who's been acting as your shadow type for a long time.

You really have a problem with anything you see as superstition, no? "

wrong explanations mess my head up. an example: i used to believe im a wizard. that i could affect other peoples emotions however much i wish.
so i ended up doing it to others even when i was away from them. it seemed to cost more mana, and was harder without seeing them.

reason: because im not a wizard. i was simply, afecting their emotions through the connection i share with them, and i could only do it to the extense that the other people connected with me.

ok, so youve came to the conclusion that im a ti - fe, and an ni - se. a thinker. which mean an stp. istp's lead such emotionally dull lives i could never fathom myself having. and estp's talk about.. weather. like seriously? =| (sure i can analyze them how different weathers affect my moods, but thats kind of pointless.)

id have real hard time seeing myself as a sensor. considering, i saw them as dumb long before i got into these theories. i also saw intitors dumb too. =| (or the only intuitor i knew as a child, an intj.)

and it makes me really bad to think of myself as a sensor. ive always seen myself above everyone else.

and then another N trait: i could never accept myself having casual mating. i dont want std's, and not connecting to the other deeply makes it just pointless waste of time even if there werent std's. for me, romance is all about the connection. being touched is also extra. (but then, doesnt everyone except isfp's like that? =| ) isfp's are too privy and hate the Fe'ish emotion stuff. an isfp cat i had, always hates it that i shower her with too much attention. she only likes the attnetion, if shes in a mood to have it, and even then shes _completely_ disconnected from me, like disregarding me as if i was just something to use whenever she pleases. -.-

ive actually always hated pointless small talk. but now that im becoming more emotionally open, it.. actually makes me very good, even thought my "small talk" is always more like me intellectually analyzing something seemingly trivial, but i actually learn things, indirectly, by doing so. like if people ask how ive been doing, i think, in my head (why the fk would i care to talk about that? whats the point?) but i realize now what the point is: the point of such trivial questions is to keep your mind sharp, so you actually know what happens inside your head, instead of forgetting everything instantly.. xD

about those shadow types.. please, do tell me more.

honestly speaking, it makes me feel bad when i label myself as a type. i desperately want to have one, but all the negative traits i associate with each type bugs me. i guess, the prevalence of instincts and ennea makes it still very different to each person, aaand not to mention, personal progress.

i couldnt find the part of my post where i was talking about sexuality: ill add to it: the intense connection things applies probably on all sx doms..

on the shadow types: to what extense can it affect the person? my extremes are like this: openly empathetic, radiates any feelings i feel, (only good things, considering i wouldnt be in that state if they werent..) and even if the feeling is pain, it still feels good, and it makes me ashamed of how posessive my feelings kind of are, that when in that state and people leave my company, it makes me kind of sad, but i dont want to guilt trip anyone. so i also feel shame when i feel that way, cause i dont have the right to be posessive. i also dont take my feelings seriously in that state, so im actually just observing them in fascination, not being so ashamed of what i feel, that id hide it. then the other extreme is: emotionally dead. faking feelings with melodrama if in one on one situation. to the point kind of thinking, that i only leave my computer to do tasks such as shopping, and im so focused in doing them that i wont even notice there are other people at the shop too. if i discuss with people in this state, its very emotionless and centered around thoughts which wont really connect with reality that much at all. but im so absorbed in them that i actually believe in them. im also very arrogatn and believe im either the most intelligent person(when operating by which i suspect to be e5) or the most beautiful person (when operating on my 4w3, most likely secondary ennea.)
also, i dont analyze others at all when im in this bad state. im just totally disconnected from others.

my emotions mostly indicate how certain i am in my ability to judge what is the objectively best way to feel about something. and my certainty in my thinking. if i think im right, ill radiate a clear confidence. which is visible to others in many ways.

i also dont think an intuitor could ever hurt me in any way. i have an uncanny ability to solve any emotional problem, if i _care_ to, which, i rarely do.

all the types i find most threatening to my self are S doms. except isfj, i havent noticed any dangerous behaviour from them yet, but then.. ive only seen one isfj in my entire life. -.- or two, but i didnt get to analyze this other isfj much at all, only to determine her type.

but me, an estp? i guess i could make sense of that.. but then........... ive been able to make sense of every other type i thought i was. -.-

this is lame.. =D
its kind of true, or really true.. i dont believe anything until ive experienced it myself.

and ive recognized, unhealthy entp's try to justify their emotional problems with external explanations, using Te, such as theories about how something in their brain has gone wrong, while in reality, they just have emotional problems.. lols. i guess it could be similar to how i correlated my dropped thinking capacity with the use of alcohol and thus became absolutist and lost any hopes of ever being intelligent again. when the truth was, that its because i stopped talking with people through microphones, that caused me to stop developing and maintaining my vocabulary and intellect, which i incorrectly correlated to alcohol. dont know, perhaps it migthve had somehting to do with it too?

there was once this istp 5w4, he seemed very intelligent and like that. but when i went talking all abstract philosophy with him, he replied "im a simple person."

which is kind of lame, since istp IS the simpliest type, as is esfj equally much.. but still, a simple person with ennea 5w4? 5w4 is like the opposite of simplicity.

uhh, i dont know. i actually in my past noted something about estp's world view being very similar to mine, i wrote it down so i could think on it later when i felt like it.

ive also noted estp's to do a lot of typism. ive been infricted several times in another forum and banned once for it. *whistles* =o..

uh, id love to think more on this, but right now i feel like theres too many things to think, and thus im nearing my suspected disintegration point of e7, which makes sense a lot since getting my thoughts scattered is exactly what wrecks me up, and it said to be a 5 thing.

lols, could you imagine a 5w4 sx so estp? thats like the opposite of estp stereotype. no wonder i never considered that type.

agh, i love it when i have million thoughts, but i also hate it, because then i get nothing out of it...............

i really dont know what to do in moments like this. id like to follow them all. one strategy is to write down the most relevant ones of them down, and ponder it later, unless it becomes irrelevant by new discoveries ive made.

"Think of us both: a few posts ago it seemed impossible to understand each other without loosing our tempers, now we're having a pleasant conversation !

I need some time to read your last two posts again and then come back, but I have an important question: did you read on Socionics during your studies? Do you identify more with those description or less?"

well, it takes some time to figure out how to go right at each type dynamic..
i did read socionics too. i find it so easy to identify with any of them, because somehow, im able to justify just about any theory. which is why i should first figure things myself, then correlate it to theory. not the other way.

yep, c ya!