Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts What does your blind spot look like? (So, Sx, or Sp)

[Morpeko]

Considering sx blind.

The idea of intimacy makes me extremely uncomfortable and I'm quite poor at maintaining one-on-one connections with most people.
I'd rather have a lot of acquaintances than a few really close friends. I try to withdraw whenever I become too close to someone.
I don't like to "merge" with other people, even those I consider myself closest too, and I avoid intensity in relationships.
I try to figure out how I am perceived by groups of people and what kind of impact I make (if any) wherever I go, be it school or work or even online forums.
I am sensitive and receptive to what other people think of me.

 

[chubber]

The Blind Spot: The third instinct can be as problematic as the first but for a different reason. It is the area that we ignore due to the polar pull of the dominant. This is the area that we feel isn’t crucial or important, and we generally try to meet the aims of this instinct using the strategies of the dominant and secondary instincts. Integrating this instinct can be as challenging as attempting to tame the dominant. It is clumsy and underused. If the more dominant instincts are experiencing some level of satiation momentarily, the blind spot is easier to integrate. When labelling our stacking, we do not include the blind spot. For example, “SP/SO stacking” refers to dominant SP, secondary SO, and SX blind spot.

Social blind spot - SP/SX and SX/SP

The area that is ignored by these three stackings are the three elements of the Social instinct: Connection/Care, Mindreading, Harmony/Role.

1. Connection/Care: The connections made by the sexual instinct do not involve bonding or reciprocity. This is not to say that they can’t feel love, but the instinctual drive itself is more concerned with connecting chemically as if getting a drug fix, and maintaining that locked-in high. They can make friendship bonds or other types of relationships with people, but they are often less “close” than it seems. Once the energy of attraction wears off, they might forget to maintain that bond as they search for a new energy fix. They also have less of a “screening process” for the people they interact with. SO has a sense of “good and bad people” built in, or an innate sense of knowing who has the same moral values or psychological understanding of the world. These similarities will bond them together. SO-blinds often ignore this, and the people in their life are less of a “big deal” or of something that needs to be focused on.
2. Mindreading: SO-blinds are often unaware of certain social cues, or they might ignore them without even intending to rebel against them. The big societal lattice-work of mental mindreading is muted in favour of SP and SX. They may create beautiful art or have great ideas, but they often lack the superb communication skills of a SO-dom who is highly aware of how everything they do is received by others, and is able to respond to their social cues. Lacking this arena of social has behavioural similarities to autism, but is not the same thing.
3. Harmony/Role: SO-blinds forget to present a sense of “me” and identity beyond being an attraction object for themselves or others. They are less concerned with how others see them and how they fit into the greater context of society or even their own small circle. In a sense, they lack a “genre,” the SO-doms having the clearest sense of this. They will take little pride in being part of any team, being from a particular city/place, having a “crew” or group, etc.

The main facets of SP/SX and SX/SP:

• A focus on the self and its needs, the objectifying of others for sex/arousal or instinctual resources
• Lack of focus how to present themselves in a way that properly communicates their own message of who they are
• Lack of awareness of what makes them bonded to others, who they are in relation to others, how they are relating to others reciprocally
• Not being “met,” no communication just for the sake of talking, not looking to connect on something shared, may connect on something but do not identify with the space between two people that the connection brings, they are not bonded by communication
• Lacking a sense of social order (Socials can rebel against order but it’s deliberate), and a sense of being “civilized” or “human”
• Outsource social to others, have other people keep them in the loop

4 wing 5:
​
4w5s have a harsher edge than 4w3s and are the true outsiders of the enneagram. They tend to be more intellectual and introspective. They are more likely to philosophize their inner reality. Many 4w5s have an unflinching "this is me so deal with it" persona that's harder and crustier in comparison to 4w3s. They tend to be absurdly original or profoundly eclectic. Either way they have a more "take it or leave it" attitude and are more likely to direct a critical edge at others. Their persona serves more to redirect their shame away from their vulnerable self behind it in contrast to the 4w3 whose more shapeshifting persona facilitates relating to people. The more shame a 4w5 feels the more they implode, or in some cases amplify their persona as a countershame response. As a result, 4w5s are more likely to present a more bizarre and even grotesque image in some instances that reflects their feelings of defectiveness combined with a fascination for the macabre that their five wing brings.

4w5s have a great pride in staying "true to themselves no matter what" amidst what changes in the world around them. They accept being isolated from others and are personally invested in their self-image enough to stick with it through thick and thin. They are equally proud of suffering for their weirdness as paying the price for being who they are only makes them feel even more authentic about themselves. It illustrates how they are too complex to be understood by the unworthy who lack the perception to decode their many layers to understand the real them.

Suffering for their internal self-image serves to reinforce their authenticity. The more they suffer for it the more they cling to their internal self-image and 4w5s wear their lack of compromise as a badge of honor for being true to themselves. "I'm completely true to myself and no one can take that from me." They mythologize their own personal tragedy. On the flip side being double-withdrawn they have less of a will to deal with the world and feel more overwhelmed by it. Despite seeking meaning in everything, they are more likely to tend towards nihilism. Combine that with being even more true to themselves in response to their suffering and they become more and more disconnected from the world. In a self-destructive cycle the 4w5 holds his head high at never selling himself out like others, but ironically has little to nothing to show for it since he's actualized his identity with futile concepts that have no basis in reality. A feeling of hopelessness sets in and he withdraws from the world more permanently.

Instinct Stackings

 

[Virtual ghost]

Evidently Sx last.


I was never trully in love.
Generally shallow relationships with people.
Emotionally untransparant.
Ignoring sex.
Sober/rational judgement.
Almost unexisting impulsivity.

 

[bluejay]

You’re going against the grain. It upsets their sense of how things ‘should be’. You weren’t indoctrinated properly. Your having an attitude is daring to hold a different opinion, the wrong opinion. Don’t judge yourself by their standards, you’ll never measure up. And you shouldn’t have to.

 

[Hiraeth]

I'm starting to really think that I'm actually an sx blindspot, 4w5 so/sp.

The idea of intense intimacy sounds pleasing when I imagine it in my mind, but when I actually experience it in real life, it almost always feels overwhelming, almost like I'm suffocating and in dire need of some extra space.

The thing is, the social instinct works very differently for e4s compared to other enneagram types, so it's quite often a very misinterpreted type. The general descriptions of an so-dom don't compute at all with me, but the usual descriptions for an e4 fit me rather well. I've only questioned the idea off and on because I come off very sx-like in person and harbor an outer shell of intensity where people can sometimes feel an air of discomfort, but I think it's likely due to the e4 mystique mixed in with an edgy fashion sense at times. However, my real, inner self is quite different than the prototypical artistic sp and sx types, as I'm extremely withdrawn and take no issue in being alone as much as possible, and I've read up that the so/sp subtype is actually the most withdrawn out of all the e4 subtypes. My anger also doesn't get out of hand like an sx 4's does. It's mostly envy and irritation which is typical for a 4, yet it almost always turns into a "woe is me" sort of sadness in the end.

Deep down, I also think the idea of being sx last sounds very unappealing to me and makes me even feel a little ashamed about it. I think it's part of the reason why I'd rather not identify as one too, and for the fact that I'm still a very passionate person overall. However, e4s by nature are rather sx-like themselves, so sx-dom e4s would likely exhibit a more extreme form of the sexual instinct, which I definitely don't resonate with on that level.

And an issue is that I relate to all instinctual variants to a degree, but when I connect the dots from my childhood to now, the so/sp subtype seems to make the most sense out of all the subtypes considered. I was always a very shy, meek, and sensitive child growing up and avoided conflict like the plague since I hated feeling shamed and embarrassed. I still do even now, as I'd rather lie low on the sidelines than explode and allow all to see. In that regard, I exhibited some pretty phobic 6ish qualities as a child and still do to an extent. The so/sp 4 subtype can resemble a phobic 6 under so-related activities. This does ring true for me.

In addition, my sp instinct would play the role as a support system for my social instinct. I naturally feel at home with my sp instinct, but I'd still need to feel secure enough in order to eventually satisfy my vision for perhaps a wider circle. However, my networking sucks in reality and I can care less about most modern pop culture too, but understandably if someone's an so 4 it doesn't necessarily mean they'd be a natural at so-related activities, especially if one doesn't have their sp instinct in order. Plus I despise groups in general. I never cared to be a part of a group dynamic and still don't, but that is because I know that I don't fit in with most people and don't care to bother with trying either. I prefer one-on-one convos with people as well, but I'd also like to avoid conflict in the public sphere too. So revealing myself to someone I trust is the only way people will really get to know me, otherwise I'd just be another face in the crowd for the most part.

And it makes sense when I used to think I was a 4w3. I'm more than 110% confident now that I'm a 4w5 since it's always been the type I related to the best. Before that I had to always relentlessly defend myself as an extremely introverted and conceptually artistic 4w3 since I exhibited almost every single 4w5 trait. Furthermore it makes a lot of sense for me to be a social first 4w5 since it appears a bit 4w3ish on the surface due to image concerns, but also a hell of a lot more introverted than the typical 4w3. Plus the contra flow aspect makes sense too because I'm actually very asocial in real life and can't stand being around people for too long; the subtype just happens to be a lighter version than a typical contra flow stacking because of the social first instinct. I also prefer to work alone whenever possible and can have an attitude toward people, though admittedly I can be oblivious to proper social etiquette too, but not often when it involves me or others making a fool out of themselves in the open.

I also don't really whine much and prefer to keep most of my issues to myself because I abhor appearing weak and needy to other people. So I think the sp/sx subtype is still a slight possibility, though I'm not dauntless as it's described in the descriptions. I'm also very passionate in areas that are meaningful to me, often where I can get lost in the action for hours at a time, so I can be pretty sx-like too. And this is why I still have a few hang-ups when it comes down to the ultimate decision on my subtype.

Then again, I still crave a close relationship with another person, but it has to be the right person for me. This is where I can almost be like an e1 critic as well because I'm very picky when it comes to choosing who I'd want to establish a closer relationship with. I've also never been love obsessed nor felt like I needed a relationship in order to feel worthy. My focus has nearly always been on my own passions, and if a relationship happens to fall on my lap, then great, and if not, that's fine too. And talking about super, intense topics that go far too into the deep end feels overexposing and invasive to me. It's not something I can just talk about with anyone, even to those who are closest to me. I guess for that reason I tend to appear quite mysterious to most people, even to my own family members. It's so hard for anyone to really get to know me on a deeper, visceral level. Although, some pieces of the puzzle can be exposed through my art, but it is pretty cryptic overall, unless I'm feeling unusually open that day and enthused enough to explain everything in detail.

Well, that's enough of my own laundry aired out in the open for one day.

 

[Yara the Corpse]

Sp last but not Sx first: Volatile and reckless when necessary, cautious and aware of my place socially, but dissatisfied with how people act around groups so also tend towards one on one conversations. Sp last makes me bored of simplistic views on life without any passion or meaning to it. There needs to always be something to long for~ Otherwise I'd be sad

 

[cascadeco]

I'm starting to really think that I'm actually an sx blindspot, 4w5 so/sp.

The idea of intense intimacy sounds pleasing when I imagine it in my mind, but when I actually experience it in real life, it almost always feels overwhelming, almost like I'm suffocating and in dire need of some extra space.

The thing is, the social instinct works very differently for e4s compared to other enneagram types, so it's quite often a very misinterpreted type. The general descriptions of an so-dom don't compute at all with me, but the usual descriptions for an e4 fit me rather well. I've only questioned the idea off and on because I come off very sx-like in person and harbor an outer shell of intensity where people can sometimes feel an air of discomfort, but I think it's likely due to the e4 mystique mixed in with an edgy fashion sense at times. However, my real, inner self is quite different than the prototypical artistic sp and sx types, as I'm extremely withdrawn and take no issue in being alone as much as possible, and I've read up that the so/sp subtype is actually the most withdrawn out of all the e4 subtypes. My anger also doesn't get out of hand like an sx 4's does. It's mostly envy and irritation which is typical for a 4, yet it almost always turns into a "woe is me" sort of sadness in the end.

Deep down, I also think the idea of being sx last sounds very unappealing to me and makes me even feel a little ashamed about it. I think it's part of the reason why I'd rather not identify as one too, and for the fact that I'm still a very passionate person overall. However, e4s by nature are rather sx-like themselves, so sx-dom e4s would likely exhibit a more extreme form of the sexual instinct, which I definitely don't resonate with on that level.

And an issue is that I relate to all instinctual variants to a degree, but when I connect the dots from my childhood to now, the so/sp subtype seems to make the most sense out of all the subtypes considered. I was always a very shy, meek, and sensitive child growing up and avoided conflict like the plague since I hated feeling shamed and embarrassed. I still do even now, as I'd rather lie low on the sidelines than explode and allow all to see. In that regard, I exhibited some pretty phobic 6ish qualities as a child and still do to an extent. The so/sp 4 subtype can resemble a phobic 6 under so-related activities. This does ring true for me.

In addition, my sp instinct would play the role as a support system for my social instinct. I naturally feel at home with my sp instinct, but I'd still need to feel secure enough in order to eventually satisfy my vision for perhaps a wider circle. However, my networking sucks in reality and I can care less about most modern pop culture too, but understandably if someone's an so 4 it doesn't necessarily mean they'd be a natural at so-related activities, especially if one doesn't have their sp instinct in order. Plus I despise groups in general. I never cared to be a part of a group dynamic and still don't, but that is because I know that I don't fit in with most people and don't care to bother with trying either. I prefer one-on-one convos with people as well, but I'd also like to avoid conflict in the public sphere too. So revealing myself to someone I trust is the only way people will really get to know me, otherwise I'd just be another face in the crowd for the most part.

And it makes sense when I used to think I was a 4w3. I'm more than 110% confident now that I'm a 4w5 since it's always been the type I related to the best. Before that I had to always relentlessly defend myself as an extremely introverted and conceptually artistic 4w3 since I exhibited almost every single 4w5 trait. Furthermore it makes a lot of sense for me to be a social first 4w5 since it appears a bit 4w3ish on the surface due to image concerns, but also a hell of a lot more introverted than the typical 4w3. Plus the contra flow aspect makes sense too because I'm actually very asocial in real life and can't stand being around people for too long; the subtype just happens to be a lighter version than a typical contra flow stacking because of the social first instinct. I also prefer to work alone whenever possible and can have an attitude toward people, though admittedly I can be oblivious to proper social etiquette too, but not often when it involves me or others making a fool out of themselves in the open.

I also don't really whine much and prefer to keep most of my issues to myself because I abhor appearing weak and needy to other people. So I think the sp/sx subtype is still a slight possibility, though I'm not dauntless as it's described in the descriptions. I'm also very passionate in areas that are meaningful to me, often where I can get lost in the action for hours at a time, so I can be pretty sx-like too. And this is why I still have a few hang-ups when it comes down to the ultimate decision on my subtype.

Then again, I still crave a close relationship with another person, but it has to be the right person for me. This is where I can almost be like an e1 critic as well because I'm very picky when it comes to choosing who I'd want to establish a closer relationship with. I've also never been love obsessed nor felt like I needed a relationship in order to feel worthy. My focus has nearly always been on my own passions, and if a relationship happens to fall on my lap, then great, and if not, that's fine too. And talking about super, intense topics that go far too into the deep end feels overexposing and invasive to me. It's not something I can just talk about with anyone, even to those who are closest to me. I guess for that reason I tend to appear quite mysterious to most people, even to my own family members. It's so hard for anyone to really get to know me on a deeper, visceral level. Although, some pieces of the puzzle can be exposed through my art, but it is pretty cryptic overall, unless I'm feeling unusually open that day and enthused enough to explain everything in detail.

Well, that's enough of my own laundry aired out in the open for one day.

I was originally just going to copy some of your early paragraphs about so-dom as it ties into e4 specifically, as I totally relate to all of what you wrote about that and that's why for quite a long time (until I just cleared out my avatar 'labeling' area, actually, I listed myself as so/sp. ) As I kept reading through your post though I realized I probably relate to almost all of it. haha.

Though, like I said earlier in this thread, I now kinda wonder if I'm sp-dom instead. It is probably a tossup.

I ended up removing the label though because in reading this thread it just seemed almost 'pointless' for me to identify as sx-last (the e4 version at least) , when I make a totally LAME so-dom / so-aux, even, in the generally understood non-e4 sense of it -- which is why I said I related to a lot of so-last posters posting their issues/lackings in this thread... because I can have the exact same lackings.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

[MENTION=27809]Lotus[/MENTION] - The latest terminology for the Sp 4 is actually "tenacity," as in perseverance/determination. It was decided that dauntless was actually a better fit for the Sx 4 and thus the change was made.

For the record, I DO think all 4s are capable of at least brief periods of "woe is me," under the right circumstances for them. I am pretty confident in my typing and even I have occasional moments of this. For me though, it takes A LOT to get me there and I will only do it in private with a trustworthy intimate other (Sx relationship in support of Sp weak spot). Otherwise, I opt for "complaining" via jokes. At the end of the day, I ALWAYS go back to pushing struggles aside and moving on through them. Side note: The Sp/Sx 4 has been called "The Sunny 4" and can look 7-ish as a result.

Remember: It's strictly with how you deal with ENVY. I see a lot of people assuming an "extra" or openly angry person who is a core 4 is Sx-first. This is misguided. Is it general anger? Are they an 8-fix? Or is their anger coming from a palpable place of envy? If so, you'll notice a lot of open criticism of others coming from the 4, as is evident with Sx 4s. It's essentially that they build a platform for themselves and become the ultimate judge (judging whatever traits/criteria their focus is currently on). That's because they need a benchmark to compare to so that they know just how far they need to go to feel accomplished to subdue the envy.

So 4s, on the other hand, are open about the envy. You not only hear it from them, but you feel it. They are hyper aware of their "shortcomings" and sort of give in to that as The Reality. That's why they are sad... they don't see a way out (Sxs fight for a way out by climbing the ladder and using the shortcomings of others as steps, and Sps internalize their shame quietly and instead don a poker face or Joker's mask).

We each have flavors of 2 (more than the other), and when a strike is sustained to the primary, it causes us to act badly (SOCIAL shame/rejection/embarrassment for the So, INTIMATE/COMPETITIVE inferiority/rejection for the Sx, and in a twist for the Sp 4 as a countertype... I think they react when people see behind the mask because that is a failure of their coping mechanism and makes them feel overexposed and weak/inferior, but they might also get moody about things like sudden loss of resources/sanctuary/health or even just running late on time as that is often a valued commodity for Sps). Sp 4 also does this weird self-sabotage thing that I'll save for another discussion.

Hope that helps!

 

[Hiraeth]

I was originally just going to copy some of your early paragraphs about so-dom as it ties into e4 specifically, as I totally relate to all of what you wrote about that and that's why for quite a long time (until I just cleared out my avatar 'labeling' area, actually, I listed myself as so/sp. ) As I kept reading through your post though I realized I probably relate to almost all of it. haha.

Though, like I said earlier in this thread, I now kinda wonder if I'm sp-dom instead. It is probably a tossup.

I ended up removing the label though because in reading this thread it just seemed almost 'pointless' for me to identify as sx-last (the e4 version at least) , when I make a totally LAME so-dom / so-aux, even, in the generally understood non-e4 sense of it -- which is why I said I related to a lot of so-last posters posting their issues/lackings in this thread... because I can have the exact same lackings.

Yeah, I totally understand. It's also a reason why I don't feel comfortable identifying as a specific type anymore too. It always felt like I was putting up a false front since many people aren't fully aware of the general 4 subtypes. And then the 4 in me gets somewhat annoyed because it doesn't seem to truly reflect the person that I am inside from the outside, and so I end up feeling like a phony in the end.

I've always related to the sp/sx subtype in general, especially when I was once unaware of the specifics behind the 4 subtypes. I never knew the sp/sx subtype indicated a dauntless personality because I always assumed based off the instincts alone that the sp variant mainly equated to comfort and safety. I never realized there were counterphobic tendencies involved, which I don't relate to at all. But then I've heard from some people that the dauntless trait is actually a misrepresentation of that subtype, so now I'm not sure what to believe anymore. I did get typed by an enneagram person on here as a 4w5 sp/sx, and he mentioned how the sp 4 is highly misrepresented by many enneagram experts, namely Riso and Hudson as well as the Fauvres. He said the core theme of an sp 4 is aloneness and avoidance, which is what I've always presumed it was all about from the beginning.

Ocean Moonshine's sp/sx description resonates with me a lot, but I think that's about the only 4 sp/sx description I've read that I identify with the most. I often test as the sp/sx subtype on enneagram tests too, with the social instinct creeping up every so often in the stacking.

Going by the basic theory for each variant, the sp/sx and so blindspot would be me to a T. Unfortunately based upon most enneagram experts, it doesn't seem to work that way for us 4s. I suppose we're just too damn special.

 

[Hiraeth]

[MENTION=27809]Lotus[/MENTION] - The latest terminology for the Sp 4 is actually "tenacity," as in perseverance/determination. It was decided that dauntless was actually a better fit for the Sx 4 and thus the change was made.

For the record, I DO think all 4s are capable of at least brief periods of "woe is me," under the right circumstances for them. I am pretty confident in my typing and even I have occasional moments of this. For me though, it takes A LOT to get me there and I will only do it in private with a trustworthy intimate other (Sx relationship in support of Sp weak spot). Otherwise, I opt for "complaining" via jokes. At the end of the day, I ALWAYS go back to pushing struggles aside and moving on through them. Side note: The Sp/Sx 4 has been called "The Sunny 4" and can look 7-ish as a result.

Remember: It's strictly with how you deal with ENVY. I see a lot of people assuming an "extra" or openly angry person who is a core 4 is Sx-first. This is misguided. Is it general anger? Are they an 8-fix? Or is their anger coming from a palpable place of envy? If so, you'll notice a lot of open criticism of others coming from the 4, as is evident with Sx 4s. It's essentially that they build a platform for themselves and become the ultimate judge (judging whatever traits/criteria their focus is currently on). That's because they need a benchmark to compare to so that they know just how far they need to go to feel accomplished to subdue the envy.

So 4s, on the other hand, are open about the envy. You not only hear it from them, but you feel it. They are hyper aware of their "shortcomings" and sort of give in to that as The Reality. That's why they are sad... they don't see a way out (Sxs fight for a way out by climbing the ladder and using the shortcomings of others as steps, and Sps internalize their shame quietly and instead don a poker face or Joker's mask).

We each have flavors of 2 (more than the other), and when a strike is sustained to the primary, it causes us to act badly (SOCIAL shame/rejection/embarrassment for the So, INTIMATE/COMPETITIVE inferiority/rejection for the Sx, and in a twist for the Sp 4 as a countertype... I think they react when people see behind the mask because that is a failure of their coping mechanism and makes them feel overexposed and weak/inferior, but they might also get moody about things like sudden loss of resources/sanctuary/health or even just running late on time as that is often a valued commodity for Sps). Sp 4 also does this weird self-sabotage thing that I'll save for another discussion.

Hope that helps!

Oh really? I did think the sx 4 seemed a much better fit for the dauntless description since they're always looking to merge with something else. The sp 4 as dauntless never made sense to me. And that's interesting how the sp/sx subtype is referred to as the sunny 4. I never heard that before. I always assumed it was more of a bitter/cynical subtype because of the contra flow association, and that's also why I was unsure for a time.

Yeah, that is one area I relate to with sx 4. I do have a tendency to compare myself to other people, notably other artists around my age group. There is this sort of competitive streak involved, but then the intensity and anger depicted in those sx descriptions made me rethink that possibility.

And that's one fairly large reason why I don't relate to the so 4 subtype. I'm rarely open with other people about the deeper aspects that are bothersome to me, but admittedly I was more so when I was younger, though always felt shameful and exposed every time I did open up. It just feels so unnatural to disclose the more vulnerable side of me to anyone, really, but that is also because I hate having attention on myself too. Out of those descriptions you gave for 4s, I would be either the sp/sx or the sx/sp stacking, but since sx first is now referred to as the dauntless subtype, I'm leaning on sp/sx again.

Thank you. This was all very helpful. The old information is still out there and is where I'm still gathering data on this. Now that I know there's newer updates, I'll be sure to check those out.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Oh really? I did think the sx 4 seemed a much better fit for the dauntless description since they're always looking to merge with something else. The sp 4 as dauntless never made sense to me. And that's interesting how the sp/sx subtype is referred to as the sunny 4. I never heard that before. I always assumed it was more of a bitter/cynical subtype because of the contra flow association, and that's also why I was unsure for a time.

Yeah, that is one area I relate to with sx 4. I do have a tendency to compare myself to other people, notably other artists around my age group. There is this sort of competitive streak involved, but then the intensity and anger depicted in those sx descriptions made me rethink that possibility.

And that's one fairly large reason why I don't relate to the so 4 subtype. I'm rarely open with other people about the deeper aspects that are bothersome to me, but admittedly I was more so when I was younger, though always felt shameful and exposed every time I did open up. It just feels so unnatural to disclose the more vulnerable side of me to anyone, really, but that is also because I hate having attention on myself too. Out of those descriptions you gave for 4s, I would be either the sp/sx or the sx/sp stacking, but since sx first is now referred to as the dauntless subtype, I'm leaning on sp/sx again.

Thank you. This was all very helpful. The old information is still out there and is where I'm still gathering data on this. Now that I know there's newer updates, I'll be sure to check those out.

With the Sp 4, I think they tend to either lean more toward 1 or 7 as far as overall demeanor is (poker vs joker face). They also can look more 3-ish or counterphobic 6-ish because of the fact that sometimes they go after what they want (just not aggressively/competitively as the Sx 4 would). Regarding the self-sabotage, there is a lot of info out there about how they do that, but to sum it up, I think there is a lot of "sucking it up" and staying in situations which don't satisfy them as a sort of low-key masochistic self-punishment that serves as a test of endurance to the 4.

An Sx 4 would have a lot of outward energy in person, always drawn toward the juiciest energy supplies. And Sp/Sx 4 would have almost a fire burning behind a wall. Others would still know it's there but they wouldn't be able to quite put their fingers on what it is exactly because of the extra barrier of Sp.

I'll have to gather my thoughts sometime and start a thread about 4s. Besides 6s, 4s are the e-type with the most variation within the same type based on instinct.

 

[Hiraeth]

With the Sp 4, I think they tend to either lean more toward 1 or 7 as far as overall demeanor is (poker vs joker face). They also can look more 3-ish or counterphobic 6-ish because of the fact that sometimes they go after what they want (just not aggressively/competitively as the Sx 4 would). Regarding the self-sabotage, there is a lot of info out there about how they do that, but to sum it up, I think there is a lot of "sucking it up" and staying in situations which don't satisfy them as a sort of low-key masochistic self-punishment that serves as a test of endurance to the 4.

An Sx 4 would have a lot of outward energy in person, always drawn toward the juiciest energy supplies. And Sp/Sx 4 would have almost a fire burning behind a wall. Others would still know it's there but they wouldn't be able to quite put their fingers on what it is exactly because of the extra barrier of Sp.

I'll have to gather my thoughts sometime and start a thread about 4s. Besides 6s, 4s are the e-type with the most variation within the same type based on instinct.

I only confront people really close to me if I feel it's an emergency situation that needs attention ASAP, otherwise even if it's wearing me out everyday, I'm able to keep everything to myself. I'm not sure how to really confront someone if it's something that has been on my mind everyday, something even that can be life draining, especially long term. I'll usually end up dealing with the anxiety until it becomes too late. I'm aware of the self-sabotage of the subtype, but I'm not sure it's something I do on purpose to continue hurting myself. It's just something I naturally do without really thinking about it. That, and even preventing myself from asking people questions or advice. I try to avoid doing that as much as possible because I really HATE appearing needy. It's the guilt of taking and not giving something from myself in return. I loathe being in situations like that.

One day I'm afraid I will burst and that's when I wish maybe I could have reached out years before. But I didn't because of the discomfort confronting certain situations brings me. It's also an avoidance thing. That's why I'm not sure if I can call it self-sabotage or if it's just how I am. It's why I even avoid talking about anything on this site.

I'm almost certain I'm not an sx 4 now. The sp/sx 4 metaphor you gave is EXACTLY how people see me when I'm angry/annoyed sometimes, but it's usually only when I'm forced out of my will to be in places with other people and I'm not feeling my best that day. People could ask me "What's wrong?", and I'd usually respond with "Nothing." But deep down they'd know something was eating me up inside, but because I'm so closed off they wouldn't know exactly what unless they kept pestering me through confrontation afterwards. That's the only time they'd ever get a word out of me. And a stream of tears.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

I only confront people really close to me if I feel it's an emergency situation that needs attention ASAP, otherwise even if it's wearing me out everyday, I'm able to keep everything to myself. I'm not sure how to really confront someone if it's something that has been on my mind everyday, something even that can be life draining, especially long term. I'll usually end up dealing with the anxiety until it becomes too late. I'm aware of the self-sabotage of the subtype, but I'm not sure it's something I do on purpose to continue hurting myself. It's just something I naturally do without really thinking about it. That, and even preventing myself from asking people questions or advice. I try to avoid doing that as much as possible because I really HATE appearing needy. It's the guilt of taking and not giving something from myself in return. I loathe being in situations like that.

One day I'm afraid I will burst and that's when I wish maybe I could have reached out years before. But I didn't because of the discomfort confronting certain situations brings me. It's also an avoidance thing. That's why I'm not sure if I can call it self-sabotage or if it's just how I am. It's why I even avoid talking about anything on this site.

I'm almost certain I'm not an sx 4 now. The sp/sx 4 metaphor you gave is EXACTLY how people see me when I'm angry/annoyed sometimes, but it's usually only when I'm forced out of my will to be in places with other people and I'm not feeling my best that day. People could ask me "What's wrong?", and I'd usually respond with "Nothing." But deep down they'd know something was eating me up inside, but because I'm so closed off they wouldn't know exactly what unless they kept pestering me through confrontation afterwards. That's the only time they'd ever get a word out of me. And a stream of tears.

I don't think my self-sabotage is generally conscious, unless I'm doing it in an intentional and blatant act of rebellion, which is not really all that common (having one drink too many even though I know it's too many is a low-key example - flirting with boundaries). Sometimes I just do things I know I'd be better off not doing, or sometimes I stay in situations that are shitty because... I dunno... I just do. Long-term suffering is the name of the game.

 

[cascadeco]

I don't think my self-sabotage is generally conscious, unless I'm doing it in an intentional and blatant act of rebellion, which is not really all that common (having one drink too many even though I know it's too many is a low-key example - flirting with boundaries). Sometimes I just do things I know I'd be better off not doing, or sometimes I stay in situations that are shitty because... I dunno... I just do. Long-term suffering is the name of the game.

For me I stay in situations I'm not happy with, because it's not clear to me yet whether I need to hightail it out or what I want or need to do instead, and sometimes this can take a long time to sort out. Or I might be kind of generally neutral (meaning: there are usually positive elements even with the negative) about it even though I also know I need something different. But the minute I come up with an alternative or feel I have clarity I'll make a move, and it usually appears very sudden even if I've actually been in limbo for a long time.

 

[1487610420]

I don't think my any self-sabotage is generally conscious, unless I'm doing it in an intentional and blatant act of rebellion, which is not really all that common (having one drink too many even though I know it's too many is a low-key example - flirting with boundaries). Sometimes I just do things I know I'd be better off not doing, or sometimes I stay in situations that are shitty because... I dunno... I just do. Long-term suffering is the name of the game.

FYP.

Also

Also self-sabotage manifests in a misdirection fashion, with the conscious mind focussing on the false issues that will guarantee the unconscious necessary outcome

 

[LucieCat]

ENFP 6w7 so/sp

So my blind spot is Sx.

I do much better in group situations than in one on one contexts. I'm a bit more withdrawn on a one to one basis. I also tend to shy away from intimacy of any sort. It takes a long time for me to establish a truly deep bond with someone unless they put in a ton of effort. It'll happen, I can bond with almost anyone, but I'm typically very slow to do so. Most of my closest friends in life I have met through groups and/or other friends or they approached me first. When I know someone I think would be a good person to be closer to, I typically don't act on it just because I'm not exactly sure how. I'm rather awkward in that sense.

I worry that my Sx blind spot makes me seem a bit cold. Though several friends of mine have assured me that it's not the case.

The dynamic between my Sx last instinctual stacking is also interesting if you consider that I'm an aromantic asexual who's attitude towards the prospects of sexual and romantic relationships is simply "meh". I'm uncharacteristically apathetic in regards to these kinds of relationships, which are both extremely intimate bonds. I'm not repulsed by either (I mean I question some sexual activities' safety and some romantic things make me cringe such as referring to your partner as "baby," "my girl/boy/woman/man," and "my other half". The worst is baby because I tend to think "No that is your partner, not your child or another infant homo sapien. Unless you are extremely messed up, you wouldn't have a romantic relationship or have sex with a literal baby.")

 

[Yuurei]

I do not know my S/x/p/o/i W/e. How do I find it and how much of a pain is it?

 

[neko 4]

I'm 4w5 sp/sx, INFJ. I definitely lack social; I like lots of solitude and don't care if I don't have a lot of friends; a few is good enough.

 

[RedAmazoneFriendZone]

I used to be sx (so I guess I can call it G spot ). Now I am more careful, more selective. I need more loneliness and time to think and relax (and when "some wing 8" says more it means MORE!!!!)

Should I say I feel much more sp. Even the friends who know me quite well feel me much more grounded. It looks like this, but I feel less adventurous.

I think it is possible to change from sx to sp by solving a few things out. I feel it happened to me.

There is always a price to pay for balance anyway...

 

[JFrombaugh]

On Personality Café, almost everyone thought I was sp/so, aka sx-last. But I think I am actually sp/sx, and here are some reasons why I think I am so-last:

-It's not that I'm unfriendly, I will hold the door for people, drive courteously on the road, speak politely, and stuff like that – but I feel like I can come across as selfish and disconnected from others without even meaning to, despite my core 9 desire to keep the peace, consider others’ feelings, and the like. My general attitude towards people I don’t feel any attraction to is "Have a nice day, somewhere else." I’m easy to get along with, but actually making friends is almost impossible for me.

-While some of my behavior can appear so-dom, a lot of it is often driven by sp & sx drives (joining a club in college to better get to know certain members, viewing networking as a necessary evil to finding a job). If I happen to join a group, it isn't because I want to become a "part" of it.

-Likewise, while I care about group harmony and want to make a positive impact on the world, I think a lot of that has to do with being a 9w1, and when you come right down it, I want to do it in a way that makes sense to ME, and not necessarily to the rest of a group. I'd much rather make charity donations on my own terms than do something like partake in a protest rally, I'm looking to start freelance work as a way to get out of the traditional 9-to-5 life, etc. I feel like a lot of people limit themselves by paying lip service to overarching group values that they do not necessarily agree with. I can generally see the good in others, but I'm reluctant to actually embrace them. If the way that I grew up comfortable with is the best way, then any other way is, by default, not as good.

-Small talk & general chit-chat for the sake of it shuts my brain off faster than a boring math class. I feel like I have to have a good reason to initiate a conversation with someone, whether it's a shared hobby or interest, something related to work or school, or just wanting to get to know a crush better. I tend to stay mostly quiet at work, put on my headphones, and not really get involved with things like water cooler gossip or have any real desire to grab drinks with my co-workers at the end of the day. Even with people I know well enough to open up more to, I would MUCH rather talk about, say, the time I climbed Mt. Tallac or that new video game I’m playing.

-Similarly, I can have a hard time maintaining a foothold in a group conversation if I’m not personally interested in the topic, and this is a reason I tend to prefer one-on-one settings. To give an example, every Christmas me and my family go visit my grandmother in Oklahoma, and if they’re willing to let me talk about my interests and recent experiences for awhile, I can go on for awhile. But then it’s like the conversation will drift to some superficial topic I don’t care about, and everybody will observe a symphony of blank stares from me. It’s as if they aren’t speaking, as if my mind is suddenly a thousand miles away. My responses, when they come, are generally independent of anything everybody else said. They might as well have been speaking in Swahili. It would have made no difference.

-One time when we had breakfast at IHOP when I was about 15, they had this "sweet pancakes" promotion going on. I tried the caramel-apple pancakes, and by golly, I'm talking DELICIOUS! I've never tasted anything like it! I ended up scarfing them down with such gusto that my Mom actually told me to stop eating like a "starving wolf" or "starving wolverine", I can't recall which. She said she was embarrassed because the table next to us was looking disgusted, and it never occurred to me that they would even notice or care.

-Although I am able to grasp social cues and rules to a certain extent, I still find myself regularly getting confused, flustered, or (at worst) upset and enraged by ordinary everyday social situations.

-I’m pretty much invisible on Facebook. I have maybe 50 friends total, and mostly just post whenever I feel the urge to share something interesting.

So what do you think? Is all of this textbook so-last? Or am I still misunderstanding the social instinct?