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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Subtype Knowledge According to Claudio Naranjo by Beatrice Chestnut

OrangeAppled

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blog.t/2010/11/theory-cutting-edge-of-our-subtype.html

Enneagram Theory: The Cutting Edge of Our Subtype Knowledge According to Claudio Naranjo

The second of three guest blogs by Beatrice Chestnut, Ph.D.

What follows here is a brief description of each of the 27 subtype characters according to Naranjo’s 2004 lecture. (I will abbreviate as follows: SP=self-preservation, SO=Social, and 1-1=one-to-one.) I also indicate which of the three subtypes in each personality is the countertype, the type that goes against the usual flow of the passion as expressed by the type.

ONES
The SP One is the most anxious and worried One and, perhaps, the most anxious and worried of all the types, Sixes included. SP Ones usually report having had a history of being put in the position of taking on a large amount of the responsibility for the family at an early age – too much responsibility. The SP One is the true perfectionist, needing to control everything and make sure everything is right and okay all the time. Controlling the environment is related to ensuring the One’s sense of survival.

If the SP One is the true perfectionist among the Ones, the SO One is perfect. The SO One has a teacher mentality and feels a need to represent the perfect model of how to be. SO Ones can be above-it-all, or know-it-alls, as they can appear superior and highly confident in their view of what is the right way to do things. The need for superiority reflects a need to have some power over others and can also act to separate them from other people.

1-1 Ones: In contrast to the SP One, who is a perfectionist, and the SO One, who is perfect, the 1-1 One perfects others, being more of a reformer than a perfectionist. 1-1 Ones can seem like Eights in that they can be zealous and driven to make the changes they feel strongly about. In this character, anger potentiates desire, and there is an intensity of desire both to get what one wants and to change other people and society to fit one’s ideals. (This is the countertype.)

TWOS
The three Two subtypes each represent a different approach to the neurotic need to seduce.

SP Ones seduce like a child in the presence of grown-ups. Having the strongest love need of the three Twos, they strive to be charming and giving in the service of unconsciously maneuvering other people into liking them and taking care of them. More childlike than the other Twos, SP Twos are more fearful of and ambivalent about relationships, so can look like Sixes. (This is the countertype)

SO Twos seduce groups from a position of power. Social Twos seduce people by being smart and competent. The Social Two is the “power Two,” and is often the owner of the company or the person in charge. This is a more adult Two than the SP Two and can resemble a type Three or a Type Eight.

The 1-1 Two is a wilder, more emotional Two that resembles the “femme fatale” archetype or male equivalent. The 1-1 Two is good at seducing specific individuals in a more classical version of seduction. 1-1 Twos look for that one other person who will take care of them and use their attractiveness to win over that person. The 1-1 is a “dangerous” beauty who displays a lot of forward momentum in moving toward others.

THREES
The three type Three subtypes are very interesting, and I think they shed light on why many Threes have a hard time finding their type. The Social Three is what many of us think of as Three, and so people who may be SP Threes or 1-1Threes may have a harder time finding themselves in the Enneagram system.

The SP Three is a One-ish Three who has a vanity for having no vanity. While this Three still wants to be seen as successful, the SP Three doesn’t want others to know that image is important. As a result, they may not be as forthcoming about their accomplishments as the Social Three. This highly self-sufficient Three is concerned with looking like the perfect model of whatever role they may play – actually being good at the things they do, not just looking good. (This is the countertype.)

The SO Three is what we know as the classic Three, a person who wants recognition, likes to be the center of attention, and needs to look good in the eyes of the group and make things happen in service of the group or organization. SO Threes have a very hard time being vulnerable and can be very sensitive if they feel like they are being made to look bad. They also like to take charge and do whatever it takes to further the goals of the group.

The 1-1 Three is a Two-ish Three who achieves in service of important others. This charismatic Three excels at looking good and attracting others, who then become the focal point of their efforts. This is the most emotional Three, and they can be shy as a person, but can support others with a great deal of enthusiasm and dedication.

FOURS
Naranjo explains that the three Fours represent three different approaches to the neurotic need to suffer. SO Fours suffer, SP Fours are long-suffering, and 1-1 Fours make others suffer.

The SP Four is someone who does not suffer out loud, does not complain, is relatively autonomous, and who makes a virtue out of enduring pain without wincing. These Fours are tougher Fours, more masochistic than melodramatic. These are also Oneish Fours – stoic, austere, and self-disciplined individuals who challenge themselves to achieve rather than engage in longing. (This is the countertype. I’ve encountered many people who say they can’t find their Enneagram type who end up being SP Fours.)

The SO Four is emotionally sensitive and feels things deeply. They lament frequently and tend to take on the victim role. In contrast to the 1-1 Four, the SO Four is not competitive, though they often compare themselves to others and find themselves lacking. For the SO Four, there is a need for self-abasement and self-recrimination. It’s as if you want to ask them, “What’s wrong with you that you think there’s something wrong with you?”

The 1-1 Four is more assertive than the SO Four. Whereas the SO Four feels a great deal of shame, the 1-1 Four is shameless. These Fours can be very outspoken with their anger, and they are very competitive. They express envious anger, an envy that manifests as competition. In addition, the 1-1 Four tends to be more vocal about expressing needs, and they rebel against any shame they may feel is related to their desires.


FIVES
Naranjo explains that in contrast to the three Four subtypes, which are quite different from one another, the three Five subtype characters look rather similar to each other.

The SP Five has a passion for hiddenness or sanctuary. There is a strong need for boundaries and to have control over these boundaries. The SP Five is the least expressive of the three subtypes, and they have particular difficulty expressing anger. Although SP Fives can be expressive, it is always on their terms.

The SO Five relates to the group in terms of “super ideals.” In this sense, they do not relate to the people, but to the very outstanding among the people. These Fives can typically be more “out there” than other Fives. The search for “super ideals” reflects this Five’s search for meaning in the world and underscores their sense of struggle with a polarity between extraordinariness and meaninglessness.

The 1-1 Five is one of the most romantic of the 27 types. This romanticism gives them a vibrant inner life. They tend to be very passionate about one person, often a person they cannot find. Similar to the SO Fives’ search for super ideals, 1-1 Fives look to find the exemplar of absolute love, someone whom they can trust with their inner world. (This is the Five countertype.)

SIX
In the SP Six, fear manifests as insecurity, as a fear of not being protected. In light of this, SP Sixes seek the warm embrace of family and friends, seeking to escape anxiety through becoming close to and dependent on others. In a world they perceive as dangerous, SP Sixes seek to form alliances; for this, they endeavor to be friendly, trustworthy, and supportive, as allies are supposed to be.

The SO Six is very concerned with knowing what the rules and guidelines are. Like good girl scouts or boy scouts, they are dedicated to adhering to the group code. These Sixes have the mind of a lawgiver and can be very legalistic. Lacking either trust in self (like the 1-1 Six) or trust in others (like the SP Six), the SO Six relies on abstract reason or ideology as an impersonal frame of reference. These Sixes have a love of precision and efficiency and an intolerance of ambiguity.

The 1-1 Six is the most counterphobic Six. These Sixes have a need not just for strength, but also for intimidation. There is an inner program that the best defense is a good offense, and anxiety is allayed by skill and readiness in attack. 1-1 Sixes tend to move against danger, and this can give them the look of a trouble-maker. They tend to move toward risky situations, feeling a sense of safety in confronting threats rather than avoiding them, and they trust themselves more than others or rational principles. (This is the countertype of type Six.)

SEVEN
SP Sevens are make alliances, collecting around themselves a kind of family or partisan group. They rely only on those they trust. In contrast to the 1-1 Seven, who is idealistic, the SP Seven is pragmatic and materialistic. SP Sevens are good at taking advantage of good opportunities and finding ways to further their self-interest. SP Sevens are both pleasure-loving and good at getting what they want.

The SO Seven represents a purer character who expresses a kind of counter-gluttony, in that the SO Seven focuses on not exploiting others and helping and supporting the group. SO Sevens postpone the fulfillment of their own desires for an ideal of supporting others, and they want to be seen as good for their sacrifice. A generalized tendency of this type is to adopt the role of helper and to be concerned with the alleviation of pain. (This is the Seven countertype.)

The 1-1 Seven is a dreamer who expresses the need to imagine something better than stark, ordinary reality. This is a gluttony for things of the higher world, for idealization. They have a passion for embellishing reality, and they tend to look at things with the optimism of someone who is in love. Because of this, they have a tendency to display too much optimism and enthusiasm.

EIGHT
The SP Eight expresses a strong need to get what’s theirs – to get what they need for survival. They have a strong need for satisfaction and an intolerance of frustration, often going after what they need without talking about it very much. In this subtype, there is an exaggerated ability to take care of oneself and one’s own needs. SP Eights are the most armed and protected of the three Eights.

The SO Eight is a contradiction: a rebellious person who goes against social norms, but who is also oriented toward protection and loyalty. Archetypically, this was the child who got violent in protecting the mother from the father – violence out of solidarity. In contrast to the SP Eight, the SO Eight is more loyal and less aggressive. (This is the countertype.)

The 1-1 Eight has the strongest anti-social tendency and is the most rebellious and emotional of the three Eight subtypes. They are out front, openly saying their values differ from the norm. 1-1 Eights can be fascinating and more colorful than the other Eights. They can be passionate and energetic, and they typically use this big energy to take over the whole scene.

NINES
The SP Nine expresses the need to find protection and comfort through merging with an experience of the satisfaction of physical needs. Through consistently getting lost in activities they enjoy– for example, eating, sleeping, reading, doing crossword puzzles, or working – they simultaneously experience comfort and avoid or forget their own sense of being. These Nines like to be alone more than the other Nines. They are also practical and would rather get absorbed in a familiar and comforting activity than take the risk of expressing themselves in the world.

The SO Nine has a need to feel a part of the group that over-compensates for an experience of feeling different or not a part of the group. SO Nines can be workaholics in service of the group, working hard and unselfishly to support the family or group without showing their stress or putting a burden on other people. SO Nines can be good leaders who may look like Threes. (This is the countertype of type Nine.)

The 1-1 Nine expresses a need to be through the other; they try to gain a sense of being not found inside themselves by fusing with somebody else. These Nines may find it difficult to locate their own passion for living, so they unconsciously seek it in someone else, usually someone who is important to them. These Nines tend to be tender and sweet, and they may not realize they are living through specific others. These Nines are also kind and gentle and not very assertive.





I don't think this has been posted yet (?)
 

Kasper

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Is there any more info on what the significance of "counter type" is, how it goes against the flow?
 
G

Glycerine

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^same here. For my tritype, I relate to the counter types on two of the three types.
 

Such Irony

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This is a really interesting article.

I could see myself in several of these, especially SP 3, SO 4, both SP and SO 5, SP 6, and SP 9.

Is there any more info on what the significance of "counter type" is, how it goes against the flow?

I see counter-type as the style that's most atypical of that type. People who have the "counter type" variant often question being that enneatype because their behaviors are often contradictory to the stereotypical style of that type.
 

PeaceBaby

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The SO Nine has a need to feel a part of the group that over-compensates for an experience of feeling different or not a part of the group. SO Nines can be workaholics in service of the group, working hard and unselfishly to support the family or group without showing their stress or putting a burden on other people. SO Nines can be good leaders who may look like Threes. (This is the countertype of type Nine.)

Yes, I relate to this. When I first typed, I was confident I was a 9, but I could not identify with some of the purported tendencies. That's why tritype appeals to me too, it addresses some of these dichotomies.

(lol I don't feel I am a part of the e9 group I am a part of!)
 

AphroditeGoneAwry

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Hmm. According to that, I am not mostly an sx 9. I relate to some of the other sx descriptions moreso. :thinking:


Just when I thought I had my tritype figured out!
 

Qlip

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Yep, right on the money. 6 sx.

SIX
In the SP Six, fear manifests as insecurity, as a fear of not being protected. In light of this, SP Sixes seek the warm embrace of family and friends, seeking to escape anxiety through becoming close to and dependent on others. In a world they perceive as dangerous, SP Sixes seek to form alliances; for this, they endeavor to be friendly, trustworthy, and supportive, as allies are supposed to be.

The 1-1 Six is the most counterphobic Six. These Sixes have a need not just for strength, but also for intimidation. There is an inner program that the best defense is a good offense, and anxiety is allayed by skill and readiness in attack. 1-1 Sixes tend to move against danger, and this can give them the look of a trouble-maker. They tend to move toward risky situations, feeling a sense of safety in confronting threats rather than avoiding them, and they trust themselves more than others or rational principles. (This is the countertype of type Six.)
 
B

brainheart

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When I'm healthier I have a difficult time seeing myself in the Naranjo descriptions. I always have to remember- what am I like when I've lost my shit? And then it becomes pretty stinking obvious that sexual four is where it's at.

[MENTION=6561]OrangeAppled[/MENTION], I was reading Naranjo's Enneatypes in Psychotherapy at a bookstore last night. An interesting read, for sure. It's essentially the notes from a meeting of psychotherapists discussing how it is working with different enneatypes and their subtypes, including their biases against particular types (wow did a lot of them hate working with fours and fives, maybe that's part of why I've always had such a shitty time with therapists/psychiatrists). Also, all of the therapists of the same subtypes got together and highlighted what they considered to be the core issues of those particular subtypes. You might want to try to get a copy.
 

UniqueMixture

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This is a really interesting article.

I could see myself in several of these, especially SP 3, SO 4, both SP and SO 5, SP 6, and SP 9.

I related to several as well. It's interesting to look at these in terms of general psychology as well. The ones I related to within each category were respectively Sx 1, Sx 2, So 3, Sx, 4, So 5, none of the sixes, So 7, Sp 8, and Sp 9. With 3 most, then 7, then 1 then 8. I think the 9 would represent my "lazy self", the 8 my stressed out aspect, the 7 my "higher self", and 3 being my normal state, and 1 being my altrusitic self.

How does tritypes relate with intergration/disintegration? (I don't really know the enneagram very well.) How could you integrate these descriptions and how one favors them with how they behave based on whether or not their basic needs are being met? I wonder how this would correlate on a larger scale with personality development as people are born into different circumstances (ie. periods of great strife, different social classes, etc.)
 

OrangeAppled

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When I'm healthier I have a difficult time seeing myself in the Naranjo descriptions. I always have to remember- what am I like when I've lost my shit? And then it becomes pretty stinking obvious that sexual four is where it's at.

OrangeAppled, I was reading Naranjo's Enneatypes in Psychotherapy at a bookstore last night. An interesting read, for sure. It's essentially the notes from a meeting of psychotherapists discussing how it is working with different enneatypes and their subtypes, including their biases against particular types (wow did a lot of them hate working with fours and fives, maybe that's part of why I've always had such a shitty time with therapists/psychiatrists). Also, all of the therapists of the same subtypes got together and highlighted what they considered to be the core issues of those particular subtypes. You might want to try to get a copy.

I have not read this book yet, but it's next on my list (so to speak...I don't make lists). I wasn't sure if it was going to be much different from Character & Neurosis (lots of these typology authors seem to just rehash/slightly revise in their books), but I've been hearing it's not the same info at all.

-----

I see myself in the sp as a child, and certainly as an adult, but sx is much stronger now. I had hateful outbursts as a child, where sx bubbled over, but most of the time I took some pride in being an undemanding, good kid who held it all in. As an adult, the envious anger is a lot less contained, but also less volcanic when it surfaces. I just kind of own the envy now, almost shamelessly, the kind of justified feeling the sx 4 has.

I would be careful with viewing the sp 4 as a slot for those who have trouble finding their type (I buy the idea that 3-6-9 have the most trouble, although that in itself is not a way to type someone, IMO). The sp 4 still looks very 4ish, IMO, with a notable, masochistic draw to melancholy & pain & struggling with feeling insignificant & defective; and while they may initially balk at being envious or dramatic (I did), I think most 4s have enough hyper self-awareness to find their type pretty easily.
 

SoraMayhem

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I see myself in the sp as a child, and certainly as an adult, but sx is much stronger now. I had hateful outbursts as a child, where sx bubbled over, but most of the time I took some pride in being an undemanding, good kid who held it all in. As an adult, the envious anger is a lot less contained, but also less volcanic when it surfaces. I just kind of own the envy now, almost shamelessly, the kind of justified feeling the sx 4 has.

I see all of the 4 subtypes in myself in certain stages of my life. I was much more so/sp when I was younger, but when I reached my late teens my development and behavior have been more similar to an sx/so, with a drastically decreasing sp. 'Shamelessness' is one way to put it, but I had always attributed it to a greater self-assurance.

Does this suggest that subtype is more fluid, or has the capacity to change?
 
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OrangeAppled

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I see all of the 4 subtypes in myself in certain stages of my life. I was much more so/sp when I was younger, but when I reached my late teens my development and behavior have been more similar to an sx/so, with a drastically decreasing sp. 'Shamelessness' is one way to put it, but I had always attributed it to a greater self-assurance.

Does this suggest that subtype is more fluid, or has the capacity to change?

I see myself in all of them also, but less so in the SO type, and markedly so in the SX type. I think it can be a matter of getting a better grasp of the instincts & how they play out within a type. I don't think I could've typed myself based on these short descriptions, but they reinforce what I already know.
[MENTION=7140]brainheart[/MENTION] - I don't know how much of the book you read/remember, but is that the one where Naranjo discusses how your identification with an instinctual subtype(s) can clue you into your core type? Perhaps it was just in a lecture of his though... but I heard/read something somewhere that he says if you cannot identify clearly with one instinctual subtype above others, that there's a good chance it is not your core type. I'm not sure if that addresses your question raine_lynn, but I think there are a lot of reasons a person may not identify clearly with one instinctual subtype of their identified core type that don't indicate a mistyping.
 

SoraMayhem

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... but I heard/read something somewhere that he says if you cannot identify clearly with one instinctual subtype above others, that there's a good chance it is not your core type.

...y'know, now that you say that, I went back to read the other types, and what do you know, 5 SO sounds rather accurate. >>;
 
B

brainheart

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I see myself in all of them also, but less so in the SO type, and markedly so in the SX type. I think it can be a matter of getting a better grasp of the instincts & how they play out within a type. I don't think I could've typed myself based on these short descriptions, but they reinforce what I already know.
@<a href="http://www.typologycentral.com/forums/member.php?u=7140" target="_blank">brainheart</a> - I don't know how much of the book you read/remember, but is that the one where Naranjo discusses how your identification with an instinctual subtype(s) can clue you into your core type? Perhaps it was just in a lecture of his though... but I heard/read something somewhere that he says if you cannot identify clearly with one instinctual subtype above others, that there's a good chance it is not your core type. I'm not sure if that addresses your question raine_lynn, but I think there are a lot of reasons a person may not identify clearly with one instinctual subtype of their identified core type that don't indicate a mistyping.

I didn't read the whole book but I do know I heard what you're speaking of in a lecture. I think it's a little extreme, personally. There are plenty of enneagram theorists who say you have an overall dominant instinct type but the other instincts will come to the surface at other times depending on what's going on in your life. I prefer the idea of what typically triggers neuroticism within you as a way of determining your dominant instinct- and how you react to that trigger. I have a more difficult time with figuring out how to determine stacking. Some say the second is your most stable function, but I'm having difficulty placing that sort of theory within the neuroticism model.

Also, I have heard that it's important to take into consideration the instincts prevalent in your upbringing. I was raised in a very SO/SP family by two e1 parents so those qualities were drilled into me as being valued, and as an image type I quickly learned I would be ignored or frowned upon the second I got overly emotional, intense and demanding (however I was always internally arrogant. I was loathed by all my classmates and as much as it hurt and as much as I wanted friends I always made myself feel better by thinking about how I was better than them- so there is the shamelessness and competition, I suppose. I was convinced I was a misunderstood genius, ha ha). Sometimes it's difficult to disentangle what comes second or what was the emphasis in your childhood environment, I think.


However, what I like about Naranjo are the same things I like about Jung. You have to view what he says metaphorically, not literally. (Something which you encounter listening to him more- I prefer listening to him vs reading notes about what he says, for sure.) I like the 'aha'! that comes with his descriptions vs this long list of things to check off, which is NOT how my brain operates. I am an INFP with mega inferior Te.


Here's the lecture:

 

cascadeco

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Also, I have heard that it's important to take into consideration the instincts prevalent in your upbringing. I was raised in a very SO/SP family so both of those qualities were drilled into me, and as an image type I quickly learned I would be ignored or frowned upon the second I got overly emotional, intense and demanding (however I was always internally arrogant. I was loathed by all my classmates and as much as it hurt and as much as I wanted friends I always made myself feel better by thinking about how I was better than them- so there is the shamelessness and competition, I suppose. I was convinced I was a misunderstood genius, ha ha). Sometimes it's difficult to disentangle what comes second or what was the emphasis in your childhood environment, I think.

I think this is a good point. I think too it really ties into how people of the same 'type' can be pretty different from one another, in behaviors, skillsets, level of communication/expression, and so on. Sometimes it can be hard to tease out what was drilled into you vs. what is truly more natural for you, and I think kids learn at a young age what 'needs' to be suppressed for maximum safety or lack of conflict, and what's more safe (and will be accepted) to be shared, etc.

Anyway, I can relate. My parents are both ISxJ's, one is an so/sp, and the other is a probable sp/so (otherwise an sp/sx, but I'm not sure; can't really tease out what's istj/SJ/tertiary Fi and what's instinctual). The SJ was drilled into me, as was an environment where emotions and 'connections' didn't really happen; an absence of sharing of thoughts and internal selves. Everything was very surface-level and withdrawn/self-sufficient, from my perspective at least, although all of my tangible needs were met and accounted for. [so I'm not complaining, it's just interesting to contrast what the gaps were vs. what was filled; what was filled for me is probably what is lacking in many peoples' experiences, and vice versa]
 
B

brainheart

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I think this is a good point. I think too it really ties into how people of the same 'type' can be pretty different from one another, in behaviors, skillsets, level of communication/expression, and so on. Sometimes it can be hard to tease out what was drilled into you vs. what is truly more natural for you, and I think kids learn at a young age what 'needs' to be suppressed for maximum safety or lack of conflict, and what's more safe (and will be accepted) to be shared, etc.

Anyway, I can relate. My parents are both ISxJ's, one is an so/sp, and the other is a probable sp/so (otherwise an sp/sx, but I'm not sure; can't really tease out what's istj/SJ/tertiary Fi and what's instinctual). The SJ was drilled into me, as was an environment where emotions and 'connections' didn't really happen; an absence of sharing of thoughts and internal selves. Everything was very surface-level and withdrawn/self-sufficient, from my perspective at least, although all of my tangible needs were met and accounted for. [so I'm not complaining, it's just interesting to contrast what the gaps were vs. what was filled; what was filled for me is probably what is lacking in many peoples' experiences, and vice versa]

Yes. I think for some reason there is this emphasis in enneagram theory on the initial reaction with parents and how that shapes the type but then it supposedly ends there, as if the remainder of your childhood has no influence. I mean, I very vividly remember being a supremely outwardly emo little kid but around the age of five that really changed and for the most part I became way more withdrawn and cooler in my interactions with others. I only felt like I could be my super dramatic self alone and so I began to prefer spending a lot of time by myself. My whole entire life my parents, whenever I say "I feel" immediately stop me and say, "Say, I think. You don't feel something, you think it." My mom did this to me over Christmas and I am thirty freaking eight years old. Well, I blew up on her and strongly informed her that no, I feel the vast majority of things that I express, so get the hell over it and stop correcting me. Ugh.
 

Burger King

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http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27005&whichpage=1#.URwNOzSPWHc

Credit to the OP of that thread for the information. Posting this here because I think there is a lot of misunderstanding between instincts, specifically the sx and so instincts.

Sexual Instinct
"Attraction/Repulsion." NOT bonding.

Manifest in 3 Zones, and distortions:
1) Edge/Aggression/ Pushing the envelope - Moving towards what draws you energetically, drive towards what is exciting and interesting, element of risk, of overcoming boundaries, destructive. Salmon swimming upstream to [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] and die. Most aggressive version of their type. There's an element of risk and exhaustion. Jealousy and Competition, over-aggression, over-spending energy, can be heartless, this is hunter-prey dynamic. Everything else sidelined. Recklessness.

2) Broadcasting/Charisma - Display, broadcasting one's energy and reading the energy of others (not attunement - that is social, this is "where's the juice?"), phallic sending out signals of one's "feathers", what one is all about. Trying to intrigue and being intrigued. Peacocking. *this is not being aware of the other, attuned, connected or bonded*. Where the other "is at" is social. Projecting energy, trying to attract, "feelers" out looking for the juice. Trying to draw you in, like energetic "pheromones".

3) Immersion/Fusion - completely absorbed, immersion, not just in others but in passions. without the heart center it becomes spiraling, self-absorption, tends to mix with narcissistic issues, tries to resolve left over childhood b.s. Male mantis being eaten by females, male spiders being eaten by females. The question is what do I fusing with? You don't fuse with just anything (there's a picky-ness here... hunter waits for prey... finding the right game, the perfect mate, the right spark. It's not connection. There is a specific intelligence to the attraction, see my example below of plagues and arranged marriages), the nature of the attraction-immersion is that there is a specific something that draws attraction and immersion is sought in.

Once resources are gathered by SP, they want to be used, activated. Doing something with them is social.

-Russ said about 50 percent of people who think they're sexual aren't, social in most cases, misunderstanding the two instincts, which is not their fault, fault of [blocked due to guideline #4 violation] teachings.

Being turned on, spending energy, driven to spend energy, not a choice.
Chemistry and fusion, not intimacy.

-Attracting and being attracted. Also repelling. Time to hunt, mate and go out - aggression and competition - Display - flowers are an example.

-In presence, we're drawn to what makes more life and energy, when we're distorted, we move to what gives the ego more energy.

-To be used up by existence, fused with essence, letting no barriers get in the way. Nothing stops you from union with the beloved.
Surrender, obliterated by beloved, going all the way.

-In sex, we can't be intact.

-Sx is the part of us that doesn't tolerate veils and barriers. The transforming, creative force. competition is the engine of evolution. Breaks things up, shakes things up, sexual is a destabilizing force, but also reconstitution.

Sexual is the reconstituting of separate elements coming together in new ways - creativity.

energy that gets us off our ass, fascinated.

Instinctual wisdom and intelligence - Jess and Russ talked about cultures with arranged marriages, more so and sp than sx, and how that made those cultures more susceptible to being wiped out by plagues. attraction has intelligence.


-intensity - intense about what? intensity needed because intimacy can't be felt.
high sx-people have erratic lives

-social is affection and tenderness. sexual is an energetic synergy. The sexual is not discriminating, because that implies choice, which is social. the sexual has no choice about what it's attracted to, but the instinct has strong attracts and strong repulsions (i'm not saying sexual is interested in everything, more like the opposite - sexual is attracted to very specific elements, but as far as the WHY or the pursuit of that attraction, there is little to no control. Likewise, the sexual instinct has an incredibly hard time engaging with something it's not attracted to.)


sx-last: postponing the sexual. Not that one doesn't have sx, have passion, have attraction, but it's constantly postponed, corked. passion is kept in a jar. Sx-last person feels unattractive, ashamed, unconscious "I'm boring and lucky to have friends". Sexual can always be talked out of - "I would pursue this, but my work/this person needs me." Seems disruptive or unruly. SX is done self-consciously.

3 Levels of Development:
1) Unconscious - seeking peaks states of energy and intensity to point of self-destruction, or neurotic about where the energy fix is coming from, manipulating, forcing, hung-up on how to squeeze most intensity. obsession with object. addiction to object of attraction.
2) Growing - activated energy for creation and fulfillment, energy that undoes the log-jams.
3) Illuminated - be on wave of creative life force, energy fully engaged in awakening, sx generated in service of essence, the real juice is awakening. complete transmission. Sacred Prostitute - Jess mentioned Virgina Satir - said she wouldn't work with a client if she couldn't imagine making love to them, otherwise there would not be a complete transmission.

some examples that were mentioned:

sx 3 "doing" desirability, becoming something to be the ideal mate. shaping oneself into ideal mate of object of attraction.
sx 4 hardest time being practical, run by their attraction, "come here, see if you can handle me" hard to handle pride. i'm not willing to be civilized.
sx 6 anxiety about attractiveness, sx 6 males can seem 8ish, not necessarily counterphobic, leather jackets, motorcycles, bruce springsteen-esque tough guy, but 'feminine' coyishness and being undone in love and romance. SX 6 females, cultivating attractiveness and highly feminine with a toyboyish streak to undermine it, 'protesting' their own strategy - "i hate being pretty" but also wanting to be the prettiest.
sx 9 - conflict of autonomy and boundaries and fusion. Sloth and fusion. Most aggressive 9, can seem unlike typical 9. Fusing, losing oneself in fusion, "waking up" and reclaiming boundaries. Triangulation is common - "I love two people and can't chose between either" as a way of keeping boundaries while also keeping the blame off themselves for causing this conflict "if i make this choice, i hurt person X, or this choice, person Y. i can't help what i feel."

The sp and so descriptions are in there too. The whole thread is worth a read imo, especially if you're undecided on instincts.
 

Southern Kross

Away with the fairies
Joined
Dec 22, 2008
Messages
2,910
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
so/sp
Wow, those descriptions seem fantastic. I won't say perfect, because I'm sure there are flaws, even if I haven't found obvious ones yet. It even clarifies some typings for me. I don't know about everyone else but the first thing I do when I see those lists is test them out on people/characters whose instincts and enneatype I know (or am struggling over). One of the comparisons I made was my sister and then I read this:

OrangeAppled said:
1-1 Ones: In contrast to the SP One, who is a perfectionist, and the SO One, who is perfect, the 1-1 One perfects others, being more of a reformer than a perfectionist. 1-1 Ones can seem like Eights in that they can be zealous and driven to make the changes they feel strongly about. In this character, anger potentiates desire, and there is an intensity of desire both to get what one wants and to change other people and society to fit one’s ideals. (This is the countertype.)
:shock: That's so spot on it's ridiculous. While I know my sister is a Sx-first, I've even struggled to work out whether she's a 8 or 1 - and this description even addresses that. Also, "being more of a reformer than a perfectionist" fits so well and explains things too.

I did find my subtype description to be rather bland in general, though:

The SO Four is emotionally sensitive and feels things deeply. They lament frequently and tend to take on the victim role. In contrast to the 1-1 Four, the SO Four is not competitive, though they often compare themselves to others and find themselves lacking. For the SO Four, there is a need for self-abasement and self-recrimination. It’s as if you want to ask them, “What’s wrong with you that you think there’s something wrong with you?”
However, I do like that it says I feel things deeply - at least that humanises me a bit.


OrangeAppled, I was reading Naranjo's Enneatypes in Psychotherapy at a bookstore last night. An interesting read, for sure. It's essentially the notes from a meeting of psychotherapists discussing how it is working with different enneatypes and their subtypes, including their biases against particular types (wow did a lot of them hate working with fours and fives, maybe that's part of why I've always had such a shitty time with therapists/psychiatrists). Also, all of the therapists of the same subtypes got together and highlighted what they considered to be the core issues of those particular subtypes. You might want to try to get a copy.
That's interesting. Did they say why? Are we just too stubborn and in our own heads for therapy to work effectively? :D

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27005&whichpage=1#.URwNOzSPWHc

Credit to the OP of that thread for the information. Posting this here because I think there is a lot of misunderstanding between instincts, specifically the sx and so instincts.
I agree that too many people claim to be Sx-firsts. People don't want to be So-first, and may choose to see their sense of connection with people as being Sx related. If they took a second look they might find they fit the social instinct better and they will actually get more meaningful answers out of it - I certainly did (although I thought I was Sp-first, instead).
 
B

brainheart

Guest
That's interesting. Did they say why? Are we just too stubborn and in our own heads for therapy to work effectively? :D

Pretty much.

Social fours were overly whiny and weepy. They complained too much without doing anything about it. Sexual fours came in with this competitive attitude of 'Just try to help me, I know you can't.' Most of them had good things to say about self pres fours, actually, that they were articulate and self disciplined so they accomplished a lot in therapy. They liked that they didn't complain which I thought was a little wild- don't therapists want their patients to share their problems?

For fives, I don't remember anything instinct specific, but basically it was about how it was impossible to get anything out of them and that they were so frustrating because they refused to take any concrete action to change, they were just so in their heads.

It was a wild read because it was these uncensored comments of psychotherapists tearing certain 'types' apart and praising others. It was like sneaking into a private meeting, which intrigued me, but it also left a pretty bad taste in my mouth, mainly because it would seem that therapists should be more open-minded and not play favorites and something about them grouping people into types vs considering them as individuals bothered me. It made me think of teachers congregating in a teachers' lounge bitching about certain cliques of students. That said, I liked having the opportunity to read it. It was like being a fly on the wall.

Wow, those descriptions seem fantastic. I won't say perfect, because I'm sure there are flaws, even if I haven't found obvious ones yet. It even clarifies some typings for me. I don't know about everyone else but the first thing I do when I see those lists is test them out on people/characters whose instincts and enneatype I know (or am struggling over).

I know. I really like them too. I find it interesting because when I first encountered enneagram I thought for sure my husband was a 7 but he's not flaky and changeable like sevens are often portrayed (just extremely enthusiastic and constantly planning his next activity of fun), so I considered 6, 3, 9, 2, but there was always something off about it. Thinking of him as the 'countertype' (I always figured he was a social dom regardless of etype) for seven totally makes sense.

I agree that too many people claim to be Sx-firsts. People don't want to be So-first, and may choose to see their sense of connection with people as being Sx related. If they took a second look they might find they fit the social instinct better and they will actually get more meaningful answers out of it - I certainly did (although I thought I was Sp-first, instead).

I don't get why people wouldn't want to be social first, but there definitely does seem to be a bias against social- I guess it's the prevalence of bad descriptions. I've never equated bonding with sexual though. They are definitely different energies. Sexual is like being possessed by the devil while social strikes me as being gentle and considerate.
 
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