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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts The relationship between the two most dominant instincts

Vizzy

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Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
229
Enneagram
5w4
My motives for not trusting people too much are more or less the same. I always think that, on the long term, everybody (including myself) can betray, fail or abandon those that depend on him/her. So detaching from people is a way to prepare myself for the end of the relationship, which will happen sooner or later.
I've had indeed very strong and exclusive friendships that I put above the rest of my relationships (that's why I know that I'm Sx first, and not So, for example), but there's always been some caution in the background; the thought that, no matter how strong these relationships would look, at the end I was really on my own.

Many times, however, the distance I put between people and myself it's not even the result of mistrust; it's just that I'm unable to connect with them. If I have no problem with one-night stands, it's not because I'm comfortable with sex; it's because I see sex in itself just as a mechanical act, no feelings involved. When it comes to "love talking", flirting or the like, I feel extremely awkward. But I suppose this has more to do with the general inability of type 5's to handle feelings, rather than with sp instinct.
That's very interesting - thanks for sharing. I agree with plain not being able to connect with others, often. But that could be for some very simple reasons. Some people just won't click with you. Some will.
We can perhaps boil it down to human nature.

Approaching sex as a mechanical act. That's where we differ greatly, it seems. Does it have something to do with our different wings? Does it even matter?
If anyone could shed some light onto this, that'd be great.
 

Silveresque

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Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
Ok, cool. But I wasn't asking you to choose "seek" or "avoid" for either line. I wanted you to choose between the top and the second line.

I just want to know which preoccupies your mind more frequently - intimacy or social rejection/acceptance. I don't care whether you're seeking or avoiding because, as far as instincts are concerned, they're just two sides of the same coin.

Oh, whoops. :doh:

Well, this is hard to answer too. When I'm around people, I don't really think about intimacy, I concentrate on not messing up and looking like an idiot, so that's social rejection/acceptance. But when I'm alone, I think more more about intimacy/closeness, about how much I want it but don't have it. And since I spend a lot more time alone than around people, I end up thinking more about intimacy. So it's entirely situational. :shrug:

I think I just answered exactly how you didn't want me to answer. Sorry...:(
 

Vizzy

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Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
229
Enneagram
5w4
Oh, whoops. :doh:

Well, this is hard to answer too. When I'm around people, I don't really think about intimacy, I concentrate on not messing up and looking like an idiot, so that's social rejection/acceptance. But when I'm alone, I think more more about intimacy/closeness, about how much I want it but don't have it. And since I spend a lot more time alone than around people, I end up thinking more about intimacy. So it's entirely situational. :shrug:

I think I just answered exactly how you didn't want me to answer. Sorry...:(

It's alright. :laugh:
After reading your answers to the leper questionnaire, there's no doubt that So is among your top instincts.
And I've just realised that you're currently settling on so/sx.
 

VagrantFarce

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Nov 19, 2008
Messages
1,558
That's very interesting - thanks for sharing. I agree with plain not being able to connect with others, often. But that could be for some very simple reasons. Some people just won't click with you. Some will.
We can perhaps boil it down to human nature.

It's my opinion that anyone can get along with anyone, assuming that they make an effort to change with each other. Insularity is never a virtue.

Oh, whoops. :doh:

Well, this is hard to answer too. When I'm around people, I don't really think about intimacy, I concentrate on not messing up and looking like an idiot, so that's social rejection/acceptance. But when I'm alone, I think more more about intimacy/closeness, about how much I want it but don't have it. And since I spend a lot more time alone than around people, I end up thinking more about intimacy. So it's entirely situational. :shrug:

I think I just answered exactly how you didn't want me to answer. Sorry...:(

I find it interesting that you're having this trouble with your instinct, since I landed on mine fairly easily. I want to fit in. I've always wanted to fit in. My identity has almost always been been bent, first and foremost, by my relation to groups of people - regardless of how gregarious or reclusive I've been in my life. I've always lumped people into "groups", and thought of relations in those terms - it's just how I seem to think.

My attention is scattered to that which is shared by everyone. I impress people, and feel good about myself, by showing how aware I am of the values I share with many people - by how I dress, how I talk, what I talk about, what I'm invested in, how I act. It's just who I am. I've tried to suppress these needs in the past, but that's only because I was going through a depressing and resentful phase of my life. I've been my best when I feel I fit in with what is going on all around me.

So, with that in mind: When have you been at your best? And I don't just mean content or at peace - I mean truly alive and full of energy and confidence, and feeling absolutely amazing about who you are and what you're doing. Especially think about any times you remember having a good time, but then something happens that completely shatters your confidence and interest. Everyone's had that at least once, so try and remember it. What were you doing? What was so great about it?
 

Viridian

New member
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Dec 30, 2010
Messages
3,036
MBTI Type
IsFJ
Does Sx intimacy always mean romantic intimacy? Or does it encompass familial/friendly intimacy as well?
 

hhp

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
39
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Oh, whoops. :doh:

Well, this is hard to answer too. When I'm around people, I don't really think about intimacy, I concentrate on not messing up and looking like an idiot, so that's social rejection/acceptance. But when I'm alone, I think more more about intimacy/closeness, about how much I want it but don't have it. And since I spend a lot more time alone than around people, I end up thinking more about intimacy. So it's entirely situational. :shrug:

I think I just answered exactly how you didn't want me to answer. Sorry...:(

I'm pretty new to all these instinctual stackings and everything but, if I have understood it correctly, your first instinct is that which is most important to you and in which you concentrate your energies, even if you're not good at it, while your second instinct is the one which is in the background and comes forth quite naturally.
Reading your posts, I've got the impression that intimacy and a close relationship with somebody is more important to you than fitting in a group and having social qualities. While on the other hand, it seems that your natural reaction is protect yourself, keep quiet and unnoticed and seek security (you don't want physical risks, don't want others thinking bad about you, etc...).

So that would imply that you're a Sx/sp, doesn't it? Well, that's my impression; sorry if I'm mistaken.
 

VagrantFarce

Active member
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Nov 19, 2008
Messages
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Does Sx intimacy always mean romantic intimacy? Or does it encompass familial/friendly intimacy as well?

It means pay complete and total attention to me - not her, not him, ME. Look how interesting I am - everything I have to offer that no one else does. Let's share what we both have to offer with each other, totally and completely, and merge into one glorious fucking blast of light.

[youtube=uco-2V4ytYQ]Look at me look at me look at me[/youtube]

[youtube=rJppnG1tflU]You're not looking at me yet look at ME![/youtube]

[youtube=NpWAlvWNZj0]ME ME ME ME ME ME[/youtube]

[youtube=uelHwf8o7_U]![/youtube]
 

Lady_X

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 27, 2008
Messages
18,235
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
784
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Does Sx intimacy always mean romantic intimacy? Or does it encompass familial/friendly intimacy as well?

i don't think the label is important....intense connection is intense connection. it's about being deeply affected/affecting.
 

Silveresque

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Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
1,169
I'm pretty new to all these instinctual stackings and everything but, if I have understood it correctly, your first instinct is that which is most important to you and in which you concentrate your energies, even if you're not good at it, while your second instinct is the one which is in the background and comes forth quite naturally.
Reading your posts, I've got the impression that intimacy and a close relationship with somebody is more important to you than fitting in a group and having social qualities. While on the other hand, it seems that your natural reaction is protect yourself, keep quiet and unnoticed and seek security (you don't want physical risks, don't want others thinking bad about you, etc...).

So that would imply that you're a Sx/sp, doesn't it? Well, that's my impression; sorry if I'm mistaken.

Could be. Your conclusion is as good as any I can come up with. I would say that intimacy/closeness is more important to me, or at least more appealing, than belonging (though on the other hand, I'm afraid of looking weird, thus not "fitting in"). But if this is the case, then why don't I actively seek it? I don't open up or make any effort to get close to people, nor has anyone ever tried to get close to me. And aside from that, the sx/sp and sx/so descriptions for my type don't fit me at all, they're like the opposite of how I am. See why I can't decide? :p

I find it interesting that you're having this trouble with your instinct, since I landed on mine fairly easily. I want to fit in. I've always wanted to fit in. My identity has almost always been been bent, first and foremost, by my relation to groups of people - regardless of how gregarious or reclusive I've been in my life. I've always lumped people into "groups", and thought of relations in those terms - it's just how I seem to think.

My attention is scattered to that which is shared by everyone. I impress people, and feel good about myself, by showing how aware I am of the values I share with many people - by how I dress, how I talk, what I talk about, what I'm invested in, how I act. It's just who I am. I've tried to suppress these needs in the past, but that's only because I was going through a depressing and resentful phase of my life. I've been my best when I feel I fit in with what is going on all around me.

That's interesting. I've never really looked at people in terms of groups. I never even noticed cliques or stereotypes (the goths, the jocks, the "popular kids") in school. I remember one time thinking I needed to pay more attention to the people around me and get more involved in the action, but then I never actually did. My whole life I've kind of felt like there was some kind memo that got sent out to everyone except me, because I was often the last to catch on to the latest trends and fashions. And I suppose I never really get into that kind of thing either.

So, with that in mind: When have you been at your best? And I don't just mean content or at peace - I mean truly alive and full of energy and confidence, and feeling absolutely amazing about who you are and what you're doing

Um...I'm pretty sure I've never felt that way, not even close. There was a time in high school when I was sort of happy. I was founder and president of the Japanese Language Club at my school, so that made me feel at least somewhat connected. I think I was more concerned with belonging and making a place for myself at that time, and it's only recently that I've been thinking a lot about intimacy and closeness.

Especially think about any times you remember having a good time, but then something happens that completely shatters your confidence and interest. Everyone's had that at least once, so try and remember it. What were you doing? What was so great about it?

Nothing's coming to mind. Are you sure everyone's had this happen? I'm only 18, so I haven't exactly had the most life experience. :p I don't know, maybe sometime when I thought I did really great on a test and found out I got a bad grade. I don't think that's what you're looking for though...
 

Viridian

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Dec 30, 2010
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IsFJ
It means pay complete and total attention to me - not her, not him, ME. Look how interesting I am - everything I have to offer that no one else does. Let's share what we both have to offer with each other, totally and completely, and merge into one glorious fucking blast of light.

So... Sx-doms are like teenagers? :smile:

Also, has this thread come to double as a "Figuring out people's instinctual variants" thread?

...If so, can I join in?
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
So... Sx-doms are like teenagers? :smile:

Also, has this thread come to double as a "Figuring out people's instinctual variants" thread?

...If so, can I join in?

you seem Sp/Sx to me. just a guess
 

Viridian

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Messages
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IsFJ
you seem Sp/Sx to me. just a guess

Thanks! And yes, that's one of my best guesses... Although they're usually characterized as not caring about how they come across to non-intimates, which does not really apply to me in general. :shrug:

Sp-dom sounds like the best bet. My room is like a den, filled with my precious belongings.
 

Elfboy

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ENFP
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5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
while I'm at it, I'm gonna guess the instinct variant of some other members
[MENTION=14216]RevlisZero[/MENTION]: So/Sx
[MENTION=5489]shortnsweet[/MENTION]: So/Sx
[MENTION=8904]Esoteric Wench[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
[MENTION=10919]Savage Idealist[/MENTION]: Sp/So (glad you've settled on this ;) )
[MENTION=10780]Patches[/MENTION]: Sp/??
[MENTION=4490]Orangey[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
[MENTION=6021]Biaxident[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
[MENTION=14290]DJAcclaim[/MENTION]: Sx/So
[MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
 

Vizzy

New member
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
229
Enneagram
5w4
while I'm at it, I'm gonna guess the instinct variant of some other members
[MENTION=14216]RevlisZero[/MENTION]: So/Sx
[MENTION=5489]shortnsweet[/MENTION]: So/Sx
[MENTION=8904]Esoteric Wench[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
[MENTION=10919]Savage Idealist[/MENTION]: Sp/So (glad you've settled on this ;) )
[MENTION=10780]Patches[/MENTION]: Sp/??
[MENTION=4490]Orangey[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
[MENTION=6021]Biaxident[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
[MENTION=14290]DJAcclaim[/MENTION]: Sx/So
[MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION]: Sp/Sx
:(
 

hhp

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
39
MBTI Type
INTJ
Enneagram
5w6
Approaching sex as a mechanical act. That's where we differ greatly, it seems. Does it have something to do with our different wings? Does it even matter? If anyone could shed some light onto this, that'd be great.

Well, maybe I haven't expressed myself clearly. I didn't mean that sex is always a mechanical act; of course, when there's love involved it must be a meaningful and important experience, and I believe that this way is much MUCH better. It's just that, when there's no love, I still can accept it as something impersonal and not really intimate. Other people, for example, would never think something like that; sex for them is always intimate (even if it's a one-night stand) and they expect to be loved.

I suppose that 6 wing instead of 4 wing has something to do with this different approach. Apparently, 6 wing brings more detachment from emotions. I'm also very disconnected from my body sometimes; I could probably live as a head in a jar. :D
 

21%

You have a choice!
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
3,224
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Sp/Sx is my guess for you :hug:

What's the real difference between sp/sx and sx/sp? :huh:

Does this sound right?
Sp/sx: generally wants to live in a safe, predictable atmosphere, but fantasizes about romance, intensity, and seeks it in 'controllable' doses (through fiction, art, and trusted relationships)
Sx/sp: generally flings themselves into 'high and low's in search of intensity and connection, but may feel the need to wall up sometimes

I'm asking because I feel my sx pull (or maybe it's my 4-ness) very strongly, but ultimately I just need to be safe...
:blush:
 

Elfboy

Certified Sausage Smoker
Joined
Nov 26, 2008
Messages
9,625
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
What's the real difference between sp/sx and sx/sp? :huh:

Does this sound right?
Sp/sx: generally wants to live in a safe, predictable atmosphere, but fantasizes about romance, intensity, and seeks it in 'controllable' doses (through fiction, art, and trusted relationships)
Sx/sp: generally flings themselves into 'high and low's in search of intensity and connection, but may feel the need to wall up sometimes

I'm asking because I feel my sx pull (or maybe it's my 4-ness) very strongly, but ultimately I just need to be safe...
:blush:

ultimately it boils down to your most deep seated fixation, with the second instinct being at the service of the first
Sx/Sp: main goal is sex, sexual intimacy and intense chemistry. can use their Sp side (acquisition of resources, financial stability etc) to sexually attract people (think Sugar Daddy's and Cougars)
Sp/Sx: main goal is comfort, safety and financial security. can use their sexual appeal to gain power, money, comfort or security.

I suppose as a 7 it's easy for me to distinguish the two. Sp/Sx 7s need physical pleasure and comfort and enjoy sex; Sx/Sp 7s need sex and enjoy physical pleasure and comfort. in our case, which one is first is usually pretty obvious I think (even if it may not seem so externally)
 

21%

You have a choice!
Joined
May 15, 2009
Messages
3,224
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
ultimately it boils down to your most deep seated fixation, with the second instinct being at the service of the first
Sx/Sp: main goal is sex, sexual intimacy and intense chemistry. can use their Sp side (acquisition of resources, financial stability etc) to sexually attract people (think Sugar Daddy's and Cougars)
Sp/Sx: main goal is comfort, safety and financial security. can use their sexual appeal to gain power, money, comfort or security.

I suppose as a 7 it's easy for me to distinguish the two. Sp/Sx 7s need physical pleasure and comfort and enjoy sex; Sx/Sp 7s need sex and enjoy physical pleasure and comfort. in our case, which one is first is usually pretty obvious I think (even if it may not seem so externally)
Yeah, it does seem clearer in 7s when you put it that way :laugh:

I think it should be fairly clear in 4s too -- because I think I'm pretty 'level-headed' (stemming from being safety-oriented) as a 4. I can imagine sx 4s being a lot less 'leashed in'.

What about in 9s? I've been trying to pin down my INFP boyfriend's instincts. I'm quite sure he's a 9w1, and I've guessed sx/sp, but I have no idea how to tell for sure.

Sorry if I'm hijacking the thread >_<
 
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