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[sp] You know you're self preservation when

Elfboy

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- your parents die and your first thoughts are "how am I going to survive now. how soon do I get my inheritance money so I can get back to my current lifestyle" even if you did love your parents and are sad that they're dead
- the idea of altruism (placing the needs of others before your own) is quite puzzling to you
- you're willing to do socially unacceptable things to get money and survive
- your friend dies of a drug overdose and your first thoughts are "I need to find a way to get rid of the body so the police don't link the drugs to me" you will mourn his loss once you are out of harms way legally
- when asked why you didn't join the military, your response was "well, I don't want to die" (no disrespect to people who are in the military, but it's sho as hell not something I would do)
- if you are forced into the military via draft, you disert. patriotism is one thing, dying for your country is something else entirely
- you would never fight someone head on unless you were cornered or had proper training in advance. if someone offends you enough for you to want to inflict harm on them, you sneak up on them and use a weapon of some sort
- getting financially stable is your number 1 priority
 

esidebill

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- your parents die and your first thoughts are "how am I going to survive now. how soon do I get my inheritance money so I can get back to my current lifestyle" even if you did love your parents and are sad that they're dead
- the idea of altruism (placing the needs of others before your own) is quite puzzling to you
- you're willing to do socially unacceptable things to get money and survive
- your friend dies of a drug overdose and your first thoughts are "I need to find a way to get rid of the body so the police don't link the drugs to me" you will mourn his loss once you are out of harms way legally
- when asked why you didn't join the military, your response was "well, I don't want to die" (no disrespect to people who are in the military, but it's sho as hell not something I would do)
- if you are forced into the military via draft, you disert. patriotism is one thing, dying for your country is something else entirely
- you would never fight someone head on unless you were cornered or had proper training in advance. if someone offends you enough for you to want to inflict harm on them, you sneak up on them and use a weapon of some sort
- getting financially stable is your number 1 priority

1. If your parents died, the first thing you'd do is cry about money. Psychiatrist.
2. Purely situational for some people. Even the "puzzled" do it without question sometimes.
3. Define socially unacceptable.
4. Would you really think of that as the first thing that happens to a friend who died? Ridding of the body would further ruin your chances of getting away from it. Can you say murder conspiracy?
5. Many people are afraid of dying. This isn't self preservation, it's human.
6. Perhaps you mean desert? You can't really determine being killed if you're in the military. You could be simply patrolling and "die for your country".
7. Many people are afraid of fighting. Fight or flight isn't exactly a state of mind. Sneaking up on someone with a weapon is a horrible idea as it is a crime and you're likely to have problems with being arrested if you're "self preservation".
8. Self preservation isn't always about money. Yes, being financially stable helps, but there are other things. Health for example.

I see all your arguments as severely lacking and you perhaps if these are your views on life you need to readjust your attitude.
 

Elfboy

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1. If your parents died, the first thing you'd do is cry about money. Psychiatrist.
2. Purely situational for some people. Even the "puzzled" do it without question sometimes.
3. Define socially unacceptable.
4. Would you really think of that as the first thing that happens to a friend who died? Ridding of the body would further ruin your chances of getting away from it. Can you say murder conspiracy?
5. Many people are afraid of dying. This isn't self preservation, it's human.
6. Perhaps you mean desert? You can't really determine being killed if you're in the military. You could be simply patrolling and "die for your country".
7. Many people are afraid of fighting. Fight or flight isn't exactly a state of mind. Sneaking up on someone with a weapon is a horrible idea as it is a crime and you're likely to have problems with being arrested if you're "self preservation".
8. Self preservation isn't always about money. Yes, being financially stable helps, but there are other things. Health for example.

I see all your arguments as severely lacking and you perhaps if these are your views on life you need to readjust your attitude.

arguments? who said this was a debate? in response to your points though
1) I can't help but feel this is a little judgemental
2) true
3) it's rather self explanatory really, socially unacceptable activities are activities that society looks down upon. an example of what I was talking about would be getting money via being a pimp or a gold digger to survive and increase your standard of living
4) if I could end up going to jail for murder or drug possession, yes.
5) being afraid of dying is self preservation, even if it's not your dominant variant, it is still the reason we fear death
6) exactly, that's my point
7) same as point 5
8) I didn't say being self preservation means you're all about money. I said being all about money means you're self preservation.

these are not views, they are priorities. being self preservation dominant means that safety, food, clothing, lifestyle and finances are your top priority, even if you do care about people intimately or enjoy taking part in social groups. all 3 areas are usually important to everyone. that's why people who are very well off and live complete lives are harder to type in terms of instinct variants. it's most noticable in the lower classes where people have limited recources and have to make more choices with them.
 

Kasper

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If I may Elfish one...

- your parents die and your first thoughts are "how am I going to survive now. how soon do I get my inheritance money so I can get back to my current lifestyle" even if you did love your parents and are sad that they're dead
First? No.

- the idea of altruism (placing the needs of others before your own) is quite puzzling to you
It's not puzzling, it's unbelievable, even when we do good we do it for the happy-warm feelings we get in our belly.

- you're willing to do socially unacceptable things to get money and survive
Why would I care about what's socially acceptable?

- your friend dies of a drug overdose and your first thoughts are "I need to find a way to get rid of the body so the police don't link the drugs to me" you will mourn his loss once you are out of harms way legally
Absurd, I can't relate in the slightest... I'm not into drugs.

- when asked why you didn't join the military, your response was "well, I don't want to die" (no disrespect to people who are in the military, but it's sho as hell not something I would do)
I joined the military.

- if you are forced into the military via draft, you disert. patriotism is one thing, dying for your country is something else entirely
Fighting for my country is one thing, and a thing that I am willing to do, dying for my country is something a tad different.

- you would never fight someone head on unless you were cornered or had proper training in advance. if someone offends you enough for you to want to inflict harm on them, you sneak up on them and use a weapon of some sort
Well they may break my pretty face :( stealth reduces the chances of broken pretty face is all.

- getting financially stable is your number 1 priority
Nah, I'm terrible with finances and kinda ok with that.
 

miss fortune

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speak for yourself there, not sp in general :nono:

(though I would try to get rid of any evidence of my presence if a friend died of an overdose... I'll admit that panic would be my first reaction- I have no desire to ever run afoul with The Man again! :doh:)

in general though, I tend to care about other people as well as myself and I'm actually quite nice :)
 

Elfboy

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speak for yourself there, not sp in general :nono:

(though I would try to get rid of any evidence of my presence if a friend died of an overdose... I'll admit that panic would be my first reaction- I have no desire to ever run afoul with The Man again! :doh:)

in general though, I tend to care about other people as well as myself and I'm actually quite nice :)

I don't believe we're in disagreement
these are not views, they are priorities. being self preservation dominant means that safety, food, clothing, lifestyle and finances are your top priority, even if you do care about people intimately or enjoy taking part in social groups
 

miss fortune

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I really don't care about things... building a safe little nest is somewhere near the bottom of my interest list (it falls below getting in fights with people or enjoying partaking in dangerous activities for sure!) And money has never been that important to me either- living a life that I don't regret living is my highest priority :)
 

Randomnity

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I'm sp and those are absurd - and suggest sociopathic tendencies, too, if you're not exaggerating.
 

Kasper

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in general though, I tend to care about other people as well as myself and I'm actually quite nice :)

Being nice isn't associated with either caring about others of putting oneself first imo, it's another thing altogether. Personally I believe I fit into all three categories.

I care about people, from strangers who have no ill will to those who are as close as someone can get to me, but I still have a layer between them an me of self protection whereby I will look out for my self interests when needed. On top of that I try to always be I'm nice about it. Good?
 

miss fortune

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yes, but the OP didn't seem to think that you could be SP and be a decent person :thinking:

I'm nice, I help out other people on a daily basis and things of that sort... but yes, I have my personal barrier of protection that lies between the public face and what lies beneath that... I don't intend to be anyone's fool :thelook:
 

Elfboy

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yes, but the OP didn't seem to think that you could be SP and be a decent person :thinking:

I'm nice, I help out other people on a daily basis and things of that sort... but yes, I have my personal barrier of protection that lies between the public face and what lies beneath that... I don't intend to be anyone's fool :thelook:

the point of the OP was that self preservation people choose their own needs over others in times of dire circumstance. you got that impression because all of the circumstances were severe and forced people to choose between themselves and others. I did this specifically to illlustrate the differences on a primal/instinctual level.
 

Speed Gavroche

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Self-pres last answer.

- your parents die and your first thoughts are "how am I going to survive now. how soon do I get my inheritance money so I can get back to my current lifestyle" even if you did love your parents and are sad that they're dead

Strangely, I can relate to that. I mean, since people are dead, they are dead, you can't do anything to them. I don't see any urgency to bury them or something. Death is a sort of abstraction. The most logical thing is to care about how to organize our own survival. Not only the mine, but also of my young brother, my family environment, etc. Brutal death of other people kind of brutally remind me that I can die too. I can put others alive people's need before my own, but not the dead. If you are a solidier in a war, you must care about your own survival and your partner survival, but you must'nt let thought about dead people divert you from your mission. You can care about dead people when the fight is over and when you and your partners are secured, that's war, and the whole life is in this way.

- the idea of altruism (placing the needs of others before your own) is quite puzzling to you

Not at all.

- you're willing to do socially unacceptable things to get money and survive

Yes. I would prefer to prostitute myself for survival than a boring and bad payed job. I could also be a pimp, a dealer, or a gun seller. I've ever said that loudly and I have no shame.

- your friend dies of a drug overdose and your first thoughts are "I need to find a way to get rid of the body so the police don't link the drugs to me" you will mourn his loss once you are out of harms way legally

Seems the most logical thing to do. But I would want above all to inform his parents of that bad new, and that they can recovr the body.

- when asked why you didn't join the military, your response was "well, I don't want to die" (no disrespect to people who are in the military, but it's sho as hell not something I would do)

Yes, I have ever said that. But at the same time, I can find the concept of "dying for your country" quite romantic, and very stimulating and liberating that you are licensed to kill, while you are usually not.

- if you are forced into the military via draft, you disert. patriotism is one thing, dying for your country is something else entirely

I would disert because I never like to have things imposed to me, not because I'am afraid to die.

- you would never fight someone head on unless you were cornered or had proper training in advance. if someone offends you enough for you to want to inflict harm on them, you sneak up on them and use a weapon of some sort

I think I can try to avoid fighting if I'am not in good shape. I think I can also forget that I'am not in good shape.

- getting financially stable is your number 1 priority

Stability is not important, wealth is important. But not a priority.
 

Kasper

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yes, but the OP didn't seem to think that you could be SP and be a decent person :thinking:

Yeah Elfboy creates threads that seem one dimensional or stereotypical to me, don't know if that's on purpose or not but they can kick off interesting discussion, the points that are disagreed with that is, as the disagreements are the interesting parts imo.

The biggest error that came out of the OP was the focus on the end result as opposed to why, the whole screwing people over for self interests isn't right, the putting self interests ahead of a situation where no one is screwed over is different. The scenarios in the OP don't seem to actually screw anyone over, it's simply that the impression given is that of being heartless... which is where the "why" matters imo.
 

miss fortune

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you are sp/sx... I'm sp/so (and pretty damned close on the two of them!) after a split second mental evaluation of "will this involve jail time?" I tend to happily jump in and help other people with anything! I don't require much in life and know that if things ever get bad again that I have the resources to get what I need to live- other people lack that instinct and need to be helped and who better to do it that someone who is resourceful? :huh:

my only objection to joining the military is that I tend to do the opposite of what I'm told on principle and speak back when it's a bad idea to do so :devil:
 

Speed Gavroche

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The Elboy's point is that SPs are selfish like him. But it's not what self-preservation is about.
 

Kasper

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the point of the OP was that self preservation people choose their own needs over others in times of dire circumstance... I did this specifically to illlustrate the differences on a primal/instinctual level.

Dire situations need to viewed separately as times where others can be harmed, and times when no one else is involved. My sp tendencies run deep but not at the expense of others.
 

miss fortune

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elfboy- you use way too many stereotypes and paint with a spray gun where a very fine brush should be required... every time you start a thread like this you just end up getting a bunch of negative reactions. You'd think, as a self typed primary Ne user, that you'd be able to connect the dots :newwink:
 

Elfboy

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Yeah Elfboy creates threads that seem one dimensional or stereotypical to me, don't know if that's on purpose or not but they can kick off interesting discussion, the points that are disagreed with that is, as the disagreements are the interesting parts imo.

disagreed



The biggest error that came out of the OP was the focus on the end result as opposed to why, the whole screwing people over for self interests isn't right, the putting self interests ahead of a situation where no one is screwed over is different. The scenarios in the OP don't seem to actually screw anyone over, it's simply that the impression given is that of being heartless... which is where the "why" matters imo.

agreed, the biggest "error" if you will was that they situations were not explained well enough and lacked any sort of context. still, this was initially supposed to be a fun thread. perhaps the former misconception comes from the fact that all of my threads are intended to be debate threads
 

Speed Gavroche

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After haver thought a bit more about this, I realize that if my parents were dead, my first reaction would be to cry. Just have a hard time to figure out "death"? Actually I'm not sure. I remembered that when my grandfather dead I cryed two weeks later because I need that time to realize it. And I missed his funeral, thing that I sadly regreted then.
 
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