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Multiple Enneagram Subtypes/Instincts Using your last instinct

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
True but sp interferes too much. I've got a long-time friend who I've kept at arms-length since he's the type that's bad for me long-term. Why not just go for it and get all that tension out of the way? But I won't and can't.

I've done this, gotten with someone who wouldn't be good for me in the long term. Lasted about a month, sp was screaming at me the whole time but I decided to ignore it to go along with my sx desires. I can safely say that I got some emotional scarring from that... but not too bad. So never again. Everything has to be manageable and work out somehow; it has to be realistic and safe.

I'm with you on self pres. It is definitely a necessity, I don't understand how sp lasts can manage. Wouldn't they get themselves in many situations that would hurt them in the long run?
 

cascadeco

New member
Joined
Oct 7, 2007
Messages
9,083
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I'm sp/so/sx.

I don't connect easily with people (when it comes to highly vulnerable sharing of personal stuff/emotions), BUT that said, in many/most cases I don't desire a deep connection in this uber-personal sense. Sharing of ideas, experiences, opinions, thoughts...absolutely... but vulnerabilities and emotions.. not so much.

However, in cases where I DO desire to forge that deep emotional bond (mostly tied to romantic relationships), I find myself not knowing HOW exactly to go about doing that. Basically it's the reverse of Satine's problem - she doesn't know HOW to do sp exactly, but connects readily and with ease with people, whereas I'm expert at sp but sx is something that doesn't seem to work properly in my brain or I don't know how to get it to function. :smile: Also, these 'bursts'/moments of sx (I guess.. I don't know what else to call them), depending on their nature, can be incredibly uncomfortable for me. Hence my not willingly going there most of the time. Truthfully though, in the context of romance, those bursts bring me closer to the other, despite the awkwardness in my expression/sharing and turmoil/stress that it can bring me.
 

Rebe

New member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,431
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4sop
I feel very anxious when I get too close to someone. I always need an escape route before I dip into passionate encounters. It's not that I'm not sexual or flirtatious, I just get very antsy if it goes on for too long. Like putting my face near an open flame, need to step away at some point before some wind blows at us from out of nowhere. I am actually surprised SX is my last but the SO/SX descriptions do not fit me. Hmmm.
 

mrcockburn

Aquaria
Joined
Jan 3, 2010
Messages
1,896
MBTI Type
¥¤
Enneagram
3w4
Instinctual Variant
sp/so
I feel very anxious when I get too close to someone. I always need an escape route before I dip into passionate encounters. It's not that I'm not sexual or flirtatious, I just get very antsy if it goes on for too long. Like putting my face near an open flame, need to step away at some point before some wind blows at us from out of nowhere. I am actually surprised SX is my last but the SO/SX descriptions do not fit me. Hmmm.

You nailed it... as another sx-last, there have been times I'd tried to get "emotionally" passionate, but then I just suddenly jump back, and I'm like WTF am I doing?? :thelook:

It's just weird. I'm big on adventure/risk (as in sports, traveling, eating, business ventures), but when it comes to "connecting" with someone, I kind of panic if someone tries to "connect" with me. (This only applies in a spiritual/emotional sense, not sexually... :devil:)

Is it hard to be an sx-first? It's got to SUCK. I mean talk about stress and invasion. Or do you like it?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
You nailed it... as another sx-last, there have been times I'd tried to get "emotionally" passionate, but then I just suddenly jump back, and I'm like WTF am I doing?? :thelook:

It's just weird. I'm big on adventure/risk (as in sports, traveling, eating, business ventures), but when it comes to "connecting" with someone, I kind of panic if someone tries to "connect" with me. (This only applies in a spiritual/emotional sense, not sexually... :devil:)

Is it hard to be an sx-first? It's got to SUCK. I mean talk about stress and invasion. Or do you like it?

It's not hard at all! I love my sx first. I love it when people get crazy intense, deep, tell me things about themselves. I love having intense emotional bonds with people. It's not invasive at all. It would be hella stressful for me to be a soc first.

Let's see... Soc last. I just find that I really don't care about what's going on in the world. I only really care about what's going on in my life. I really just don't care about social trends; I don't really understand how to be socially appealing or really the concept. It drains me a lot to keep and maintain a lot of social connections; I am pretty apathetic about it. But I make a lot of personal connections and I sort of "zone out" some of them because it gets to be overwhelming.

I try to make an effort to talk to people though. In fact I can talk really easily to random people (when I'm hyper lol) but it has to be in a superficial way, otherwise I get drained. If I actually would maintain everything I start up like that I would probably go insane. But that's how I use it; or try to.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
I've done this, gotten with someone who wouldn't be good for me in the long term. Lasted about a month, sp was screaming at me the whole time but I decided to ignore it to go along with my sx desires. I can safely say that I got some emotional scarring from that... but not too bad. So never again. Everything has to be manageable and work out somehow; it has to be realistic and safe.

I'm with you on self pres. It is definitely a necessity, I don't understand how sp lasts can manage. Wouldn't they get themselves in many situations that would hurt them in the long run?
Maybe but don't you sometimes wonder if sp is doing more harm than good? That it over-protects and prevents opportunities that other stackings might happily proceed with and even find once they're in it, that it was a worthwhile risk?
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
Maybe but don't you sometimes wonder if sp is doing more harm than good? That it over-protects and prevents opportunities that other stackings might happily proceed with and even find once they're in it, that it was a worthwhile risk?

Yeah it definitely can. You've just gotta take those risks and see which ones are good to take and which ones aren't. Sometimes the bad outweighs the good. It's all about balance. :)
 

Rebe

New member
Joined
Nov 15, 2009
Messages
1,431
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4sop
It's not hard at all! I love my sx first. I love it when people get crazy intense, deep, tell me things about themselves. I love having intense emotional bonds with people. It's not invasive at all. It would be hella stressful for me to be a soc first.

Let's see... Soc last. I just find that I really don't care about what's going on in the world. I only really care about what's going on in my life. I really just don't care about social trends; I don't really understand how to be socially appealing or really the concept. It drains me a lot to keep and maintain a lot of social connections; I am pretty apathetic about it. But I make a lot of personal connections and I sort of "zone out" some of them because it gets to be overwhelming.

I try to make an effort to talk to people though. In fact I can talk really easily to random people (when I'm hyper lol) but it has to be in a superficial way, otherwise I get drained. If I actually would maintain everything I start up like that I would probably go insane. But that's how I use it; or try to.

This is so interesting. I am fascinated about what's going on in the world. I don't care about gossip. But I do care about what's happening in other countries and more broad, general ideas about society and different groups. Focusing on just one person or a small group to generate my ideas and relying on them to make me happy is so depressing. I never realized this before but when people get too emotionally heavy on me, I feel so uncomfortable. It feels almost icky to me. Like, please, one memory at a time. But Rebe, I'm an open book. I don't want you to be an open book! Ahhhh! :run: Emotional bonding is essential to relationships and it's endearing when people just open up and let you in, but I need it to be done really slow...and more intellectually than emotionally, if that makes sense. When people tell me about their past hurts, I need to withdraw from them, maintain my space. I don't like to be all, I feel your pain deeply and at this moment, we are one. No, no, no, you stay there and I will stay here. Unless you want sex.
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
This is so interesting. I am fascinated about what's going on in the world. I don't care about gossip. But I do care about what's happening in other countries and more broad, general ideas about society and different groups.

I really just honestly never find myself thinking about this. Watching international news makes me want to snooze 95% of the time, or I find something more interesting in the environment for entertainment. It's not that I don't care, I'm just really not inclined to be affected by it that much it seems. Politics, all that stuff. I'm just apathetic. The only world goings on that I'm not apathetic about include people and people suffering; since I do care about people in general.

Focusing on just one person or a small group to generate my ideas and relying on them to make me happy is so depressing.

Now this is interesting to me. The group helps you generate your ideas? I've noticed that with social first INFPs now that I think about it. I'm totally against being affected by group thinking actually, I want to think my own thing. I hate being affected by people in that way truth be told, unless they are someone I respect and/or have bonded with (and like them). I'm not saying that I'm totally against group thinking, just having that as a major influence. If the group thinking is logical, then it's naturally logical to go along with what they are thinking of in that moment.

I'm guessing with the so first you take some from the group, and with the sp you also have an equal part of yourself in the equation? This is why I find sx lasts fascinating, they seem to balanced between themselves and others yet when it comes to sx they get so weird.

I never realized this before but when people get too emotionally heavy on me, I feel so uncomfortable. It feels almost icky to me. Like, please, one memory at a time. But Rebe, I'm an open book. I don't want you to be an open book! Ahhhh! :run: Emotional bonding is essential to relationships and it's endearing when people just open up and let you in, but I need it to be done really slow...

For me I really like emotionally intense stuff. I only feel uncomfortable if I feel that they won't receive my intensity well.

I agree with taking things slow, but for different reasons. I could easily get everything interesting out of someone in a few days, but then I get bored with them and forget about them. So I like taking things slow if I see it as a potential meaningful relationship so I can bond with them and have mutual experiences with them at the same time, rather than doing the bonding first. The ideal relationships are the ones where my sx NEVER gets bored; I find myself absolutely craving the presence of the person when it's like that (usually other sx firsts, but not always. Best friend is an sp/so afterall).

and more intellectually than emotionally, if that makes sense. When people tell me about their past hurts, I need to withdraw from them, maintain my space. I don't like to be all, I feel your pain deeply and at this moment, we are one. No, no, no, you stay there and I will stay here. Unless you want sex.

Yeah I like having the emotional part more than intellectual, but intellectual bonding is still important (maybe this is also SF vs NF). And if someone tells me about themselves I find myself getting closer! I'm like hell yeah this person is letting me in! Time to mesh with them! :D
 

TheEmeraldCanopy

New member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
280
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w3
How do you manage when you want or try to use your last instinct? Can you develop it significantly even when it doesn't feel very natural? I am sx-first and soc-last, and recently I have been conciously trying to use soc more but it doesn't feel that good... When I meet people I am naturally more sensitive to and interested in that unspoken potential to go deeper into another person, or if they are somehow very interesting but I don't yet know why, and when I try to just engage lightly and widely, it's ok, at times it even goes quite well... but a lot of the time I don't feel as confident and like I know what I'm really doing, and I have more doubts running through my head, and I don't actually feel that genuinely engaged even if I want to be. How do others relate to this (whatever your last instinct)?

Can you talk a little more about your perspective? I'm trying to decide if I fit best as sx/so/sp or sx/sp/so... I can relate a lot to what you're saying, but I'm still not sure which type fits best.
 

Gerbah

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
433
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Can you talk a little more about your perspective? I'm trying to decide if I fit best as sx/so/sp or sx/sp/so... I can relate a lot to what you're saying, but I'm still not sure which type fits best.

How I know for me that I am sx/sp/so is that I'm good at dealing with practical issues. It doesn't stress me out and I just deal with them without worrying and I'm confident the outcome will be positive. And even if at times I let things go, even if I'm depressed or really stressed, I would still never really let things go out of control. I would always take care of my health and environment, etc.

But as for soc, I'm slightly different now, but especially when younger I really didn't care what other people thought about me, I didn't care how they judged me, I didn't need them. I would get along fine either independently or with the support of those I trusted. I don't play politics, don't care much about power and am very allergic to a herd mentality.

But with sx, it's like, something I need to live and breathe. If I had no deep connections with at least one other person it would be like death. I would have to live at least for some cause to throw myself into if there weren't other people.
 

Gerbah

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
433
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w4
Is it hard to be an sx-first? It's got to SUCK. I mean talk about stress and invasion. Or do you like it?

I love it :) If the other is interesting to me I don't feel invaded at all, and it is a joyful feeling to lose yourself in a person or an activity. At extreme moments, such as when I've been absorbed in an activity, you lose awareness that you even exist.

What sucks about it for me is that a lot of the time my sx-instinct feels unsatisfied. This is partly why I started this thread because I feel the solution is not to search for more sx but to develop my soc. I think I will never really be at ease with soc, could never really be a skilful player in the social game, but if I can mesh my soc-needs with my sx-needs, the things I really care about, I think that would work well for me.
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Being SX first pretty much does mean that I do need to be social and form relationships (and I especially crave close one-on-one bonds and intimacy), but it has to be socializing of my own choosing and intent...meaning that I'm super-bad at any kind of social obligation , seriously, including calling my own mother and sister. I even only check facebook once a week (or less, I think I recently went two or three weeks) and that's pretty bad that not only do I not want to call people, I can't even be bothered to read their status updates.

SO last basically feels like any time I make a commitment to an organization (and I surely have done this in the past) that I'm uber stressed about it and it takes extra energy for me to do so. I've flexed my SO instinct IRL, especially within the last five years or so, and so have somewhat developed it, but it's ... tiring.

It's weird because SX first *does* mean that I need a social outlet...and that I will make an effort to consistently connect to people I either share interests with or feel genuinely connected to, but sit there and grit my teeth and want to run the hell away if it means that I'm using a bunch of my energy just to be social for social's sake. It feels like a contradiction in terms, but that's the best way for me to explain it.

SP being secondary just means that I frequently hide and it's also probably what makes it so draining for me to feel "obligated."
 

Thalassa

Permabanned
Joined
May 3, 2009
Messages
25,183
MBTI Type
ISFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sx
Is it hard to be an sx-first? It's got to SUCK. I mean talk about stress and invasion. Or do you like it?

In my mind, SO first has to suck. To me that is stress and invasion.

SX first is natural to me. It means I want to connect with people I naturally gravitate to, and spend my time doing that.

SO freaks me out, because it means using pieces of my energy to appease or entertain people I don't feel like talking to. SO makes me think of random people stealing my energy.

SX on the other hand means I want to genuinely give those people my energy. It's hard for me to be any other way, though I can force SO, it's tiring.

how i practice using my SO last; I am trying to convince myself that it IS important to do my hair when I am going to the store, even though those people will never ever see me again or remember me.


:huh:

Nah.
 

Gerbah

New member
Joined
Oct 6, 2009
Messages
433
MBTI Type
ISTJ
Enneagram
5w4
SO freaks me out, because it means using pieces of my energy to appease or entertain people I don't feel like talking to. SO makes me think of random people stealing my energy.

That's how it feels for me too. Not that they're "stealing" exactly (maybe that's because you are INFJ?) but I'm very tired after a certain while.

EDIT: I just noticed you are actually "cute". Sorry, I thought I saw once you were INFJ.
 

Amargith

Hotel California
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Messages
14,717
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
4dw
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
True but sp interferes too much. I've got a long-time friend who I've kept at arms-length since he's the type that's bad for me long-term. Why not just go for it and get all that tension out of the way? But I won't and can't.

If you are single and not opposed to the idea, and neither is he, just have fun for a couple of months. I love meeting new people and if I were single, I'd know *several* guys I'd love to have fun with, without them ever being the perfect lifepartner for me. Just make those boundaries clear and be honest with him throughout as to how things are proceeding. Ask him for the same.

If you keep everything open and honest...there's no reason you couldn't have something meaningful with him without it being Love with a big L. Just keep in mind 'why' it is that he wouldn't be a good lifepartner for you, and don't let the infatuation make you insane. Just enjoy ;)
 

BlackCat

Shaman
Joined
Nov 19, 2008
Messages
7,038
MBTI Type
ESFP
Enneagram
9w8
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I love it :) If the other is interesting to me I don't feel invaded at all, and it is a joyful feeling to lose yourself in a person or an activity. At extreme moments, such as when I've been absorbed in an activity, you lose awareness that you even exist.

What sucks about it for me is that a lot of the time my sx-instinct feels unsatisfied. This is partly why I started this thread because I feel the solution is not to search for more sx but to develop my soc. I think I will never really be at ease with soc, could never really be a skilful player in the social game, but if I can mesh my soc-needs with my sx-needs, the things I really care about, I think that would work well for me.

How I know for me that I am sx/sp/so is that I'm good at dealing with practical issues. It doesn't stress me out and I just deal with them without worrying and I'm confident the outcome will be positive. And even if at times I let things go, even if I'm depressed or really stressed, I would still never really let things go out of control. I would always take care of my health and environment, etc.

But as for soc, I'm slightly different now, but especially when younger I really didn't care what other people thought about me, I didn't care how they judged me, I didn't need them. I would get along fine either independently or with the support of those I trusted. I don't play politics, don't care much about power and am very allergic to a herd mentality.

But with sx, it's like, something I need to live and breathe. If I had no deep connections with at least one other person it would be like death. I would have to live at least for some cause to throw myself into if there weren't other people.

Yes! What you say here is exactly true for me. I'm at that younger stage though that you described lol.
 

Old-Timey

New member
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
6
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
4w5
Is it hard to be an sx-first? It's got to SUCK. I mean talk about stress and invasion. Or do you like it?

It comes naturally by definition, but it can be a drag for others. An unbalanced SX'er can smother non-SX'ers in relationships ... and a double-SX'er relationship is more prone to burn-out than any other match. I think consciously giving energy to SO and SP, besides taking pressure off the intimate relationship, is essential in building the relationship itself. I think a strong intimate relationship has SP and SO elements.
 

Rail Tracer

Freaking Ratchet
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
3,031
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
How I know for me that I am sx/sp/so is that I'm good at dealing with practical issues. It doesn't stress me out and I just deal with them without worrying and I'm confident the outcome will be positive. And even if at times I let things go, even if I'm depressed or really stressed, I would still never really let things go out of control. I would always take care of my health and environment, etc.

But as for soc, I'm slightly different now, but especially when younger I really didn't care what other people thought about me, I didn't care how they judged me, I didn't need them. I would get along fine either independently or with the support of those I trusted. I don't play politics, don't care much about power and am very allergic to a herd mentality.

But with sx, it's like, something I need to live and breathe. If I had no deep connections with at least one other person it would be like death. I would have to live at least for some cause to throw myself into if there weren't other people.

Yeah, I have trouble trying to find whether my last variant is SO or SP. Somehow, the way that you are saying it, makes me think my last variant is SO.

It is like how you put it. When I was younger, I didn't care as much about what others think of me. I did not care much about the cliques in high school, or if I was going to be popular in school or not. All I cared about was the people that were close enough to me in school. I did not care who the popular or unpopular people were. If I befriend a person, it was because I take a liking to the person and not because of his/her status in school.
 

chickpea

perfect person
Joined
Sep 12, 2009
Messages
5,729
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
4w5
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
my social instinct is very underdeveloped. i'm not good at drawing attention to myself in large groups. i care a lot about what a select few think of me, but people as a whole i don't really care. i seek people out who interest me and that i connect with, i never think about their value, or the connections they could bring me, or what the social consequences are of offending them etc. i've alienated myself from certain groups of friends before because i decided i didn't like one person, and because of my lack of foresight about the group dynamic i didn't just suck it up and pretend like i probably should have.
 
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