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[sp] Push and pull: sp/sx

grey bottom socks

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
17
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
I'm a 5w4 wing sp/sx and I crave for these connections; they happen so rarely for me. I'll maybe come across someone like this once every 2-3 years. Wish it happened more, but then it wouldn't be so 'mind-blowing' and special if it did.

And it usually involves underlying sexual tension.
 

JAVO

.
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
9,178
MBTI Type
eNTP
I'm a 5w4 sx/sp, and the OP describes me well. I used to get stressed and down on myself about it, but now I just go with the flow.
 

grey bottom socks

New member
Joined
Aug 30, 2010
Messages
17
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
I figured the best ways to 'survive' is through adaptation and humor. I should just transform into a crow. :chicken:
 

Salomé

meh
Joined
Sep 25, 2008
Messages
10,527
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm a 5w4 sx/sp, and the OP describes me well.
+1
It really pisses people off too. (understandably)

ETA. I don't feel closer after each "loop", I feel further away.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,081
MBTI Type
Yin
Enneagram
One
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
I'm the so-called sx/sp (or I-P-S).

Maybe it is because I've never gotten close enough to turn things around, but I've never felt a pushing feeling from a person that I previously felt pulled toward.
 

Mondo

Welcome to Sunnyside
Joined
Mar 1, 2008
Messages
1,992
MBTI Type
EsTP
Enneagram
6w7
I've always noticed this push-pull energy in myself. Sometimes there are those few people I would like to connect deeply with and I crave being with them. It's strong, intense, and 'devouring'. I find myself bordering on obsession and I actively seek all sorts of contact with them. However, once I make progress -- once a new level of intimacy has been reached, I get scared. I pull myself back, I try to run, usually without the person knowing. But after I do that, the cycle starts again and I long for that deep connection once more.

I find this extremely frustrating and I really hate myself for it. It's like I can't decide what I want. At first I thought it was a 4w5 thing -- longing for emotion intensity but afraid of being overwhelmed, but then I was thinking that this might be an sp/sx characteristic.

So, sp/sx's, can you relate at all? Most of the time I keep people at a distance, but when I start letting someone in, I go through endless loops of pull and push. At least I feel closer to them after each loop, though -- I just hope it won't be like this forever :blush:

Of course, opinions from other types will be greatly appreciated too! :)

Maybe it's that your sp instinct is initially in favor of making the connection but then sees its loss of control and then pushes you back.. of course, the sx instinct has some power too.
 

JAVO

.
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
9,178
MBTI Type
eNTP
I'm frightened of being smothered and losing my independence & individuality. At the same time, the fantasy - this romantic paragon I'll create - is very alluring. I like the idea of connecting deeply and intensely with someone, and I fall prey to the idea just enough to pull someone in (because they seem to fit the picture in my head), and then once it begins to become a reality & the fantasy dissolves, I push them away.
I (5w4 sx/sp) do this too, but the "fantasy" is detached as if it's just a movie script I'm playing with. Sometimes, just like a good movie, it becomes very real though.

Anyway, I thought this was a 4 & 5 thing also....in the Everything Enneagram book, 4s are said to latch onto fantasy relationships to avoid the potential hurt and shame of the real thing (and the fact that it will never be "ideal"). I believe 5s are said to desire some intimacy, but their need for solitude and independence is easily threatened - or something like that. My memory fails me at this moment....
Both of these fit me well, except that thing 4's do is more detached for me. I definitely often face a conflict with sx being opposed to 5: the sx goals threaten the 5 goals of solititude and independence, and that's where sp steps in.

+1
It really pisses people off too. (understandably)

ETA. I don't feel closer after each "loop", I feel further away.
Exactly... to both of these statements. :yes:
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2008
Messages
1,844
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
6w7
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I notice a push pull myself as well. It's similar to what OA said in a previous post. I tend to be fine and then something happens where I just need to be alone. All of a sudden I feel scared and I want to think for a bit/be alone. It's a fear thing on my end (6w7 Sp Sx).

As an example.

I remember quite a few years ago when some person expressed interest in me and I was feeling alright with it. Then all of a sudden this huge amount of fear started creeping up and I just wanted to forget the whole thing/idea.

It's a definite push/pull. I'd like it but I get scared and want to back out like a cat wanting out of the water. It comes on very suddenly when I was just comfortable with it. It's like you want to stay or your feeling fine but then you think about this and that so on and so on. Then the panic/fear sets in :(.

But yeah I see a push/pull definitely. I'm curious if I should create a thread here about how to counteract the push/pull reaction in SP/SX especially for type 6's in matters of developing more intimate relationships.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
Welcome to push-pull! And while it's not as extreme as referenced in the opening post, maybe due to the reverse sx/sp, it can get this way. IMO, this is sourced from having trust issues. When sp feels threatened, it reacts by closing the door.

Thinking about this a bit more, it makes sense that it would be a more extreme action when sp leads and sx is less developed.
 

INTP1W2

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Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
40
MBTI Type
INTP
Enneagram
1W2
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
Definitely agree!

When I like who I like for whatever reasons, I throw all in. I don't think it's a bad thing, especially not in today's world where people are often playing the 'no, YOU go first' game. So many people don't like being vulnerable so they want to see your hand first so they don't feel like they are "wasting their time."

For me, I don't like rejection and I'm always checking to make sure I'm not being overbearing in the friendship (and relationship). Always checking to make sure I'm not "taking over" since I do really desire mutual friendship and not those lopsided ones where I'm doing all of the sharing and communicating and initiating. In friendships / relationships, if I've stopped taking those random pulses, I've devalued that person and don't too much care about that situation anymore.

So usually when I get the impression that my energy is just overwhelming for the other, I try to tone down a bit or cut back. If I have to keep doing that in a short period of time, I get discouraged and pull completely away. It's not permanent, initially. I want to connect but if I have disconnected, then everytime I want to reconnect, the question becomes "are they ready?". If I can't confidently-conclude they are, no matter how much I want to reconnect...I don't. I then default to letting them reach out when they are ready, which will definitely indicate to me that it is now okay to reconnect. They usually don't. If they don't eventually speak up or attempt to connect, things just fizzle away. Doesn't get any more simple than that!

I handle rejection differently. Many people cannot tell you that your energy is just too overwhelming or too much for them. So instead they do these passive things that clearly say "I don't have the resources to deal with you, in particular, right now." When I see it, it sucks...it maybe even hurts a bit (depending on how much I really want to connect with that person)...and I defer to backing completely off and disconnecting. Same result: If they don't eventually speak up or attempt to connect, things just fizzle away.

This push - pull dynamic (which I didn't know about until yesterday on this forum) is why I am big on people saying what they mean and meaning what they say. I will take a hint in a heartbeat. I'd rather be wrong but not overstep / overbear than to be seen as overly-aggressive.

*scratches head *
It made sense while I was thinking it out and typing it anyways.....
 

JFrombaugh

New member
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
64
MBTI Type
INFP
Enneagram
9w1
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
I am a sp-dom 9w1 and I relate to this so much it's scary.

If this really is a sexual instinct thing, rather than a 4-fix thing, then this is further proof that 95% of PerC mistyped me as sp/so.
 

the state i am in

Active member
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,475
MBTI Type
infj
Enneagram
5w4
Instinctual Variant
sx/sp
The more I think about this, the more I think it underscores the relationship between empowerment and possession (presumably, possessing the empowering thing). I think this marks the addictive phase of the relationship. I think sx/sp tends to be the most extreme in living this out, when it doesn't know how to appreciate equilibrium and the ongoing practices of equality and wide-spanning reciprocity. Sx just wants to push all the chips in and know for certain, the one thing, even as the actual story can never support such a lack of balance. There are simply too many needs involved when relationships develop and relevant scales of time stretch out further and further. Even if the tendency is to zone into the most missing thing and pursue that single-mindedly, not noticing the need for it grows as the resources and flexibility to let go of its hold also diminish.

I think the most challenging aspect is that in some respects, that sense of empowerment is quite real. Even as sx urgency and immediacy forgets what choosing the PATH actually would entail.
 
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