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[sx] sx relationships?

1487610420

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stahp playin wif matches fam :doge:

 

Luminous

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I have seen this before, the question is why? Is this a constant? What about more platonic relationships? Do sx individuals just not care for anything in between?

Why what? It's a constant if you're an sx dom, but it's not like it's constantly on the forefront of your mind, these are instinctual... Of course sx doms care about things in between. We don't exist in a vacuum. The instincts are all important.


Faulty question based off a faulty assumption, based off faulty reading. I was stating an opinion, not fact. What you say is meaningless to me, and shallow in the grand scheme of other things I do value. Subjective preferences are relative. This much is a value statement of preference for which there is no real answer. Only the individual can say for themselves whether or not it is shallow to them. It is to me.

And dry interactions where there is no human element, where the who matters not are shallow to me.
 

Earl Grey

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Why what? It's a constant if you're an sx dom, but it's not like it's constantly on the forefront of your mind, these are instinctual... Of course sx doms care about things in between. We don't exist in a vacuum. The instincts are all important.

That is my question- how? Based off what you said, it reads that sx is its own realm- intensity, sparks, "A consuming hot fire, leaving me breathless, satiated in all ways."- the other connections fall primarily into the soc realm. Based off this, I inferred that quoted is the state of what you define as sx relationships- no less and no other, since the rest falls to soc. Correct me if I'm wrong.
 

The Cat

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you think I'm shallow? :cry:
 

Luminous

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That is my question- how? Based off what you said, it reads that sx is its own realm- intensity, sparks, "A consuming hot fire, leaving me breathless, satiated in all ways."- the other connections fall primarily into the soc realm. Based off this, I inferred that quoted is the state of what you define as sx relationships- no less and no other, since the rest falls to soc. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm not sure what you're asking.

By all ways, I meant ALL ways, sx, so, and sp.
 

Tennessee Jed

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Responding to the OP:

I liked the website linked in the OP. It connected the instinctual subtypes with Freudian developmental stages, among other things. I've read a lot about that and about some related Jungian stuff, and that association cleared up some questions I had on the subject. So now I'm coming down hard on Sx/Sp for myself, as defined in that context.

As an Sx: After two divorces, I'm happy to remain single for the rest of my life. My love affair these days is with my projects and intellectual pursuits, rather than with people. But even now, I spend a lot of time reading psychology and self-help stuff about emotions and how people form bonds, etc. The subject is always interesting to me.

Anyway, I'm mainly posting in this thread to suggest another website on the subject of instinctual subtypes. It's pretty much the same material as in OP's website, but it's presented in a nice compact "cheat sheet" format, much more streamlined. Also, like the OP's website, the bottom 9 lines or so of the "cheat sheet" show how each subtype changes depending on which enneagram number it's linked with, demonstrating the variability of subtypes across enneagram types.

Again: It's the same material, but much more streamlined and compact. Maybe some folks will find the material easier to follow that way. Here's the link: Instinctual Subtypes Chart
 

Luminous

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This applies to everything discussed here:

Social is, at root: bonding, warmth, interpersonal intimacy, relationships, love between two people, friendship, having each other’s back. It is also the human need that lies behind the sentiment of loneliness. (Any instinct type can feel lonely.)

If you think about it, not all your close relationships are sexual. You might have a one-on-one intense bond with your brother or sister, or one of your parents, or perhaps your teacher or boss who is elderly when you’re a child; but none of these bonds (under typical healthy conditions) would be sexual. You can bond deeply with your sister without there having to be ‘sexual charge.’ So what would you call your intense, trusting, loving relationship bond with your sister? That would be social. And this extends to your friends.

Sexual is, at root: heat, allure, transformation, sexual intimacy eros. There’s a sense that you want to penetrate and be penetrated by the other person entirely, as though being absorbed into their being; tearing down all walls. (This is often mistaken for intimacy, but it isn’t necessarily, unless the Social instinct is also at play.) It is also the human need that lies behind obsession, limerence. (Any instinct type can experience this.) There’s an addictive quality to it, whether or not you’re actually intimate with the person.. you want them to want you.

In French, orgasm is called “la petite mort” – the little death. This is because when making love, you’re naked, exposed, without walls. You spill your life seed into, or upon, another. Fluids are mixed. Boundaries are lost, and when boundaries are lost, it’s impossible not to transform; to be reborn.

The reason sex has been deemed ‘sinful’ and bad is because it’s too destructive to society – it brings unexpected changes. People who were otherwise loyal to their family, or their job, or “the state” – will suddenly throw it all away for the sake of passion. Or that is what they fear. Sx instinct has a transformative quality.. it is there to strip you down, expose you and entice you, leaving you wide open. In this sense, Sexual Instinct has a danger to it. It can be scary, overwhelming.

Sx dominants are tuned into enticement, allure; they can’t turn it off. There’s a sense they’re always penetrating into you, using some type of luring siren signal, like the way birds show off their bright feathers and sing to impress a mate. All of that is sexual signaling and humans do it very similarly – through dressing up, showing virtuosity to entice (music, art etc).

Now this does not mean that “Sx dominants are sluts.” Quite the contrary, in many cases. The Sx dominant is so deeply attuned to chemistry that they can tell whose chemistry mixes best with theirs. When this instinct is first, it can be very selective, holding out for the hottest person, some kind of Ideal Other who would attract them and allure and entice them for all eternity.

This can, of course, develop into a sense of intimacy very quickly- since there’s an addictive quality, wanting to get deep into every part of the lover’s psyche. But this is a very different type of intimacy than that which you experience with your sister. The type with your sister will outlast most of your sexual relationships. The intimacy with your lover is more penetrating and intense, but it is not in and of itself based on common interests, trust, deep bonding and so forth; until Social instinct comes into play.

And we must remember that people are whole – we are not “just one instinct.” So an Sx/Sp and Sp/Sx couple will become bonded on a social level. Just as an So/Sp and Sp/So couple will enjoy heat and intensity, and want to allure each other. The question is, where does your attention automatically lie? What is the primary call of your instinctual senses? Which instinct is on all the time, in all situations, constantly guiding you, alternately holding you back and propelling you forward?
 

Earl Grey

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I'm not sure what you're asking.

By all ways, I meant ALL ways, sx, so, and sp.

If that is what it falls to, then the division of instincts as well as the ordering of it based off of priority are redundant. They are important and exist, but according to theory, fall into a hierarchy of importance. I do not disagree.

TLDR; based off what I understand from what you said, sx exists in a state of "A consuming hot fire, leaving me breathless, satiated in all ways." level or nature of connection, and nothing else, because that is the realm of sx, and any other falls into soc. That much already answers the OP.
 

Earl Grey

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Anyway, I'm mainly posting in this thread to suggest another website on the subject of instinctual subtypes. It's pretty much the same material as in OP's website, but it's presented in a nice compact "cheat sheet" format, much more streamlined. Also, like the OP's website, the bottom 9 lines or so of the "cheat sheet" show how each subtype changes depending on which enneagram number it's linked with, demonstrating the variability of subtypes across enneagram types.

Again: It's the same material, but much more streamlined and compact. Maybe some folks will find the material easier to follow that way. Here's the link: Instinctual Subtypes Chart

Interesting, and reminiscent of what I've read from Beatrice Chestnut, or at least what is referenced by her. I have never seen this site before, thank you for the link, it puts everything out there succinctly. I like that it also describes things in spoken sentences. I can relate to my IVs here.
 

Luminous

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If that is what it falls to, then the division of instincts as well as the ordering of it based off of priority are redundant. They are important and exist, but according to theory, fall into a hierarchy of importance. I do not disagree.

TLDR; based off what I understand from what you said, sx exists in a state of "A consuming hot fire, leaving me breathless, satiated in all ways." level or nature of connection, and nothing else, because that is the realm of sx, and any other falls into soc. That much already answers the OP.

I was responding to your question about the relationship between sexuality and sx with

Sexuality can encompass all sx, so, and sp. The best experience I've had has been a combination of sx and so. A consuming hot fire, leaving me breathless, satiated in all ways.

I was referring specifically to sexuality with that, not just sx. As I said, that experience was a combination of sx AND so.
 

Earl Grey

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I was referring specifically to sexuality with that, not just sx. As I said, that experience was a combination of sx AND so.

The bonding I share with my family and most of my friends is primarily so. Sx sparks are rare, sadly.

Sexuality can encompass all sx, so, and sp. The best experience I've had has been a combination of sx and so. A consuming hot fire, leaving me breathless, satiated in all ways.

I just read sx relationships?. It better separates the difference between sx and soc. I was primarily asking about the first sentence of the second quote. The experience you mentioned that is a combination of sx and soc seemed very primarily sx, and was confusing before the additional information. I do not doubt that each type wouldn't have their own form of 'sexuality', but it goes back to that- it seems that that 'consuming hot fire' is indeed primarily the realm of sx. It is sx that influences the experience to turn out that way, not soc, together or alone, as if sx was the main engine, and soc or sp is potentially additional power directing the entire machine.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Now this one is interesting. What on earth is a 'friendship crush'- if you two do end up as friends, why not just call it friendship? Shall I refer to people I wish to be friends with, as people I have 'friendship crushes' with? The way you word it implies that there may be a difference, a distinction. I am interested in knowing. Why do you call it a 'friendship crush', what difference is there between that and 'regular friendship', if any? Is that your default?
My friendship crushes had to do with somewhat idealizing the person, but also ready to accept a lot of flaws, and seeing them in a singular way. I've never been "this one, or that one, or that one" in my social thinking. I have a more intense admiration for person than what is normal for friendship. There was a girl in college I always wished to be friends with because she had this beautiful, gentle, delicate air about her and I thought she was beautiful. Before I moved I had a friendship crush on my dance teacher because she was so funny, creative, and beautiful. I wish for a special friendship with someone I admire enough that I've wondered if I'm bisexual because it isn't like "chummy old friend pal whoever is nearby to chat" kind of feelings.

Do you think this is specifically sx, and if so, how? You may use anecdotes of non-sx, or fellow sx individuals if that helps. I am sure that longing is no monopoly of sx individuals, but would like to know what makes this particularly sx, why, and how.
You refer to my comments about distant, internally intense, but unfulfilled crushes in college. This Sx/Sp description fits pretty well with what I was saying.

Basic and Type Stackings said:
This link Sx/sp is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating.
Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.
Familiar roles: the devotee, the seeker, the wanderer
Examples of sx/sp: Prince, Carl Jung, Johnny Depp, Ozzy Osbourne, Johnny Cash, Joan Crawford, Princess Di, Marilyn Monroe, Janis Joplin, Frollo from “Hunchback of Notre Dame”

As a slight OOT from the OP, this seems quite peak sx 4. Related to OP, there are resources that say that sx-lasts 'believe' that they can 'control' their attractions. I do see it that way and find those articles accurate, or at least, for myself. Do you think that this is a choice? Is this something you 'let' happen? Given the choice of going through and stopping, which would you choose, and why? In other words, how do you value this? What does this bring you? What do you think of the notion of 'controlling' your attractions- and the people who do or claim to do so?
I'm not sure about sx-lasts. I'm not sure what to say about controlling attractions except that I tend to be extremely faithful, and it is because I am aware of my instincts and those of others before they ever manifest in behavior. I avoid people or situations way early on if I think it could be an issue. The majority of people don't hold much interest to me in the first place - like the huge majority.

Right now I can't control my attraction because it is to only one person I feel an inward connection to him, and I no longer have the ability to be with anyone else. It will be this person, or I will be alone. They are the missing piece, and I'll feel quite doomed if we are forever lost in this life. Realizing that connection means everything to me - I'd likely give up anything to see it happen. I'm a bit over the top from normal standards and it's fine for people to criticize or be appalled because it is just the way that I am.
 

Peter Deadpan

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[MENTION=14857]Ravenetta[/MENTION] - The Basic and Type Stackings quote is misquoted and should read Sx/Sp, not Sx/So.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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[MENTION=14857]Ravenetta[/MENTION] - The Basic and Type Stackings quote is misquoted and should read Sx/Sp, not Sx/So.
fixed

I thought I had typed sx/sp, but my brain must have been especially tired.
 

cascadeco

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Is that bad?




I don't understand. At first, reading this seems like it puts a focuses on the personal intimacy/chemistry one might feel with another, but as @Coriolis mentioned above and as you mention later in this paragraph, there is "an easy flow and sync/understanding in conversation, shared understanding of the world or at least similar modes of viewing and processing and assessing;".

For clarification, is the 'pull' more related to the person, or is it more related to what they have to offer- the information itself? I notice that sx individuals tend to see the 'person' they are talking to (the former), while I ignore it more- I see what they offer, and who they are as a person matters only as much as how easily they can give me the information I seek (the latter). I am sure it is not black or white, but that there might be people on each extreme either way (eg; a detrimental sticking to an individual due to the spark they provide, despite not actually providing much of this 'seamless' understanding and exchange of information. Diseased sx). For example, there may be overlap, which seems to be Coriolis' case- the information and the person behind it come hand in hand to demonstrate the overall quality of the interaction and following relationship, if it does develop. How does it look like from your, an sx individual's end?




From an external viewpoint, I guess there would be overlap. I type as sx-last, but people also see and describe me differently, for reasons that I attribute/can attribute with soc. Even so, it is interesting to see how people can appear chameleonic- both via sx or soc, and it goes to show that it is not the experience, rather the underlying reasons that point to a type.

Being in the desert is supposed to be a negative analogy/thing, yes. Though I type as sp-dom, nevertheless I still find endlessly entertaining myself / being on my own pretty grey and basically the opposite of my idea of 'life'/living, so lacking key people in my life whom I really cherish / feel I can bond with can make everything pretty blah. Fortunately I have friends I feel close to, though I don't see them often. Still, knowing that they exist/ are there, and seeing them when I do see them, is very good and helps a lot. The 'desert' mostly applies to my life when it comes to romance; it has been mostly a desert for my 41 years. I used to focus a lot more on this lacking, and these days it comes and goes but is much less, but it's probably much less because I'm mentally shifted towards a tendency of a whole lot of apathy -- it's obviously a coping mechanism but it is what it is. But, I suppose regarding my friendships, it is probably worth noting that these 5 or so people in my life are people I have 'collected' over the course of 10-20+ years -- thus it's not like I meet people very often or it's 'easy' to establish or find these connections. There have been times years past though - like, when first out of college - when I was in a desert even in terms of friends - and have been in the desert with friends now and then before I became more accustomed to just the ebb and flow of life and people and all of that. So my being more 'ok' with life as it is for me now, on my own, has been a really prolonged evolution. Not saying I've always been la de la and as 'at peace' with things, or even that it's constant. It is just that the 'baseline' has shifted I suppose.

I have also tried to always just make the most out of life -- and I think I'm pretty e9 with regards to that / and with 'numbing' things, I suppose.

Who a person IS vs what they can offer? Well, my immediate reaction/answer is it's definitely who the person IS. That said, I'm not sure what exactly is meant by 'what they can offer'/the information. I mean... in my personal life I interact with people who I like/ want to interact with. For example I'm not going to particularly care if someone has great things to offer - say, great conversation when it comes to, oh, any sort of topic - if I find them revolting as a person / I don't respect them at all. otoh as an Fe user/ e9 I have the ability to hone in on commonalities/ try to focus on those things, vs focusing on the negatives, so I suppose in a sense that is looking at people in the sense of 'what they offer' - used a lot at work, probably, or just with acquaintances. I don't know. I mean it's not like I have no ability to get along positively or work well with others even if I don't feel I 'connect' with them.
 

Tennessee Jed

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My friendship crushes had to do with somewhat idealizing the person, but also ready to accept a lot of flaws, and seeing them in a singular way. I've never been "this one, or that one, or that one" in my social thinking. I have a more intense admiration for person than what is normal for friendship. There was a girl in college I always wished to be friends with because she had this beautiful, gentle, delicate air about her and I thought she was beautiful. Before I moved I had a friendship crush on my dance teacher because she was so funny, creative, and beautiful. I wish for a special friendship with someone I admire enough that I've wondered if I'm bisexual because it isn't like "chummy old friend pal whoever is nearby to chat" kind of feelings.

You refer to my comments about distant, internally intense, but unfulfilled crushes in college. This Sx/Sp description fits pretty well with what I was saying.

Yes, now that I'm identifying as sx/sp and paying attention to this discussion, I like what you're saying here.

I've always been mostly dismissive or even negligent about "social stuff": Ties of acquaintanceship, social obligations, etc. I was always a good and dutiful team player in the workplace etc., but only out of obligation and commitment. Once I put in what was owed, I was pretty dismissive about anything further.

Meantime, I invested a lot in "special ties": Bonds of love, close friendship bonds, even a special work relationship like a particularly good boss or a good subordinate. I would give them 110 percent, ideally rewarding loyalty with loyalty, etc. I would even feel the same way about a special interest or calling or hobby. In other words, life was kind of gray for me overall, or even a pain in the ass, but once in a while some interest or connection would really stand out for me and I had to do that thing, at least for a while.

I think Jung calls it an animus/anima attraction, which is usually described as a "soulmate" attraction. It can happen with a great love, a great friendship, or even an ideology or a calling or job that really suits you. But I need to read up more about that particular Jungian concept--so far I have only encountered that idea in passing.

However in the last 10 years I've actually tried to steer away from the attitude that I've described above (the idea of "anima attractions"). In the last 10 years, I've been focusing more on social stuff: I have been working on what I call my "Fe skills" and cultivating more "acquaintanceship ties"; and at the same time I have been downgrading my attention to "anima attractions." After two divorces and numerous changes in interests throughout my life, I've realized that those "anima attractions" can be misleading. They're good and worth following up on, but they aren't permanent and one can over-invest in them. They need to be treated with a measure of reserve, like anything else in life.

Just my opinion, of course.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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You didn't just copy and paste?!

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, maybe you had it in print. It's online too.
Oh the mysterious of how I fuck up. I have bizarre ways of making mistakes. I DID copy and paste, but the beginning magically disappeared when I typed in the hyperlink. I saw that and went back to edit. Every time I register for something online I always make a weird mistake like a wrong email address or something. I identify as sx/sp, along with the descriptions, so the mysteries abound.
 
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