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  1. #21
    The Devil of TypoC EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    See - I never stop being comfortable there. It takes something (someone) remarkably enticing to get me to step outside that, or heaven forbid, let them in. Then when I do, I want to make up for lost time. Sort of an all or nothing situation. That is all probably sp/sx.
    oh, fascinating. yes that does sound like sp/sx.

    in contrast, when i venture from the castle, i cautiously maneuver between the people and groups of people i care most about, and sort of reconfigure my priorities with all of them. when i leave, what am i leaving to do? what are my plans? who are my highest priority people and groups? and then i proceed carefully. if i overexert myself (and jesus does sx bonding sound exhausting to me), then i need to go back to the castle asap and reconfigure again.

    it's interesting how much this sounds like introversion, when i am absolutely not an introvert. goes to show that awareness of scarcity of interpersonal energy =/= introversion.
    ”We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous.”

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/4w5/7w8 sp/so (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

  2. #22
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    Nevermind, see here

  3. #23
    ฬᎥɬⲥhฯ ฬ๏ოᥑռ Luminous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    oh, fascinating. yes that does sound like sp/sx.

    in contrast, when i venture from the castle, i cautiously maneuver between the people and groups of people i care most about, and sort of reconfigure my priorities with all of them. when i leave, what am i leaving to do? what are my plans? who are my highest priority people and groups? and then i proceed carefully. if i overexert myself (and jesus does sx bonding sound exhausting to me), then i need to go back to the castle asap and reconfigure again.

    it's interesting how much this sounds like introversion, when i am absolutely not an introvert. goes to show that awareness of scarcity of interpersonal energy =/= introversion.
    Definitely! I'm an introvert but sx is energizing for me. I can get lost in it, it's like a state of flow, and I just want it to continue. That's both when it's someone or something I'm connecting with.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★・゚ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ・゚ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ・゚ ᴛʜᴇ ・゚ᴇᴇʟꜱ・゚★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦
    Likes EJCC liked this post

  4. #24
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    (please do not respond to this; I am working on editing it and will update it later)
    I don't think I am defining the "social instinct far too superficially." English is my third language although I have grown up speaking it as I have the other two...I don't know what the problem is but when I try to explain what SX means to me personally it is always inevitably misinterpreted and worse, there has been (based on my experience) a desire to "prove me wrong," no desire to actually understand me. I lack "emotional skin," I have never been mirrored adequately (that is, I don't know who I am, so every experience of invalidation has the same effect as that of gaslighting, even though it is not gaslighting). I am scared and terrified due to previous abuse and also because I know I cannot defend myself. So I try so hard I get nightmares. I try to provide reasoning, evidence, whatever. Because there is no way I can protect myself from this, I have tried. And in the process also discovered my distaste for the so called "calling on someone's bullshit," because in my instance all it has done is cause me harm because - I did not even know - there was no "bullshit" to begin with. I don't see people skeptically, and can't "fight"; as per Se PoLR descriptions this is frightening and terrifying for me to have to be "able to do that," because I don't think I can...I have tried and I fail, and I get nightmares and feel tired and depressed again.

    edit:


    I don't know what the issue is, why it is so hard for people to connect. Although I have noticed it seems somewhat better with people who "know me," (i.e. no one who knows me and is talking to me on a one-to-one basis has confused my explanation of SX for SO, or told me I was talking about SO when I didn't think I was. I have discussed enneagram with a lot of people. Also I want to mention again that a lot of what people designate as "deep" in a relationship is coming from attachment, and attachment plays through your preferred instinct(s)...in my opinion...so it is bigger than either of the instincts by itself) but yet again I have never felt truly secure and emotionally intimate with anyone. Part of it is that some that I encountered on these forums and such don't want to (actually get to know where I am coming from; they want to 'fight' someone who cannot defend themselves and overwrite who I am in the process, making me feel my voice has been squelched, steamrolled. I still feel really touchy about this because I cannot understand this. I don't think I can deal well with something I cannot really wrap my head around.

    I am not saying people are bad (unless I mean, they did something unfair or 'bad' then yes their actions are unfair/mean) but I wanted to clear up...I don't know, whatever I can. In the past the more I have made myself vulnerable the more I was on the receiving end of abuse on online communities. Sometimes I don't think these people realized what they were doing was abuse. Even I didn't - honestly I can't tell what's fair or not until the damage has gone too far and I have nightmares daily. And not knowing who you are seems to (in my opinion) come with a certain level of gullibility atypical for an adult, and somewhat comparable to a child's. They can be 'convinced' of anything because they don't have the ability to defend themselves. It's not out of lack of trying, it's genuinely a result of lack of 'developmental gain' that many do have access to due to adequate mirroring when they were children and as a result secure attachment (please refer to Fonagy for more info on Mentalization).

    Part of it might be that I am terrified and touchy given my previous experience, and that I am old enough to not be all that impulsive anymore, not that I was super impulsive to begin with. But I am already seeing changes in how much I can "reign in" impulses and also look at the overall picture, long-term goals. And I feel hopeless. And I don't want to drag potential "friends" into this because I feel hopeless, and so I keep my distance from everyone. Yes, I have enough "impulse inhibition" to think over things rationally and I do feel hopeless.

    Even though I don't know what the point is, I started out not knowing there were any 'agendas' behind what anyone did or didn't do, and now apparently I am supposed to wrap my mind around it but I cannot. The problem is that I am not interested in getting to know someone, or be close to someone who does not want to know me, who - even slightly - has any kind of public agenda to "win and make me look wrong..." because I can't protect myself and I am more vulnerable than others because of the reasons I shared. Also because of other reasons.

    I do not have these issues of misunderstanding with those who know me and are close to me, so I have to think part of it that I grew up speaking English in a different country for the first 14 years of my life, and as a result I don't ascribe the same "cultural/emotional" context to a lot of phrases and they probably get misunderstood because of that. But also because I am insecurely attached, I cannot mentalize, and no one has ever connected with me. Fonagy mentions that when children are 'mirrored' inappropriately they have to 'take in' this alien self that is not theirs and it causes a lot of damage and pain. Specially in the cases of abuse (I was not abused as a child, but just mentioning this).

    I was...flabbergasted when my family (whom I am not emotionally close to, but nonetheless they "know" me better than anyone else) explained to me that I am none of the things people seemed to treat me as (in real life also). That I do not over-exaggerate anything, that I mean exactly what I say, and that I am much less manipulative than the average person. That despite type 4 talking about how 4s..."make a drama out of it" almost making it sound like they are faking things, like a crying wolf - that even at my worst I have not been those things. Can you imagine not knowing myself and getting all sorts of detrimental "mirroring" mostly from guys whose opinion I cared about, who I was obsessed with and wanted to get close to - to realize it was all false...but that's nothing compared to the "mirroring" I have received online, which is even worse and included sociopathic abuse (according to my brother and father), which has, as I said before, caused me to become frazzled. Every time I have opened up about any of this in an attempt to connect with someone - anyone - I have been attacked and/or abused. I have been laughed at too, and so I thought I was making stuff up...but I wasn't. The effect of it all seems pretty similar to the kind of 'brainwashing' actual gaslighting victims go through since they were healthy to begin with, but their vulnerabilities were exploited and they were pushed an manipulated into being someone they are not, and now they don't know who they are, and they are scared and going crazy...except me - I have never known fully who I was. I didn't even realize I had an unclear identity until my father mentioned it, and then I read up more on psychodynamic literature (mentalization) surrounding it and I amazed at how much sense it made. Part of it is also stigma, a condition for which I don't personally feel like going into right now for understandable reasons of protecting myself. I am more involved with the mental health community and psychologists and it is very clear they don't fully understand it - how can I expect the layperson to understand a mental health condition for which the suicide rate (completed) is 50 times that of the general population (apparently). I guess I am rambling but should I get a response I want to mention it's possible I might delete this post but also that I will not be expounding upon some of the stuff that feels a little private to me.

    putting this under spoilers because it is long
    Last edited by Venus Rose; 09-08-2019 at 05:09 PM.

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