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  1. #21
    Mastermind Fieldmarshal Sacrophagus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I agree with the above, except I have long known the answer to the highlighted, and am fine with that bargain. I used to struggle with that balance more when I was younger, but learned it isn't worth it. Being included for the sake of it, or with other people for the sake of it, is empty and worse than being alone. To the extent that I am alone, it is because being with others has been stressful, unpleasant, counterproductive, or other negative things.

    It's like asking for a friend to come along with you for some venture. If he doesn't show up, you're still fine and you go get things done. (Minus the waste of time of calling the other person which makes you prefer to never ever call them again since their being with you is ultimately superficial. )


    The social part is always a plus thing for me.
    الخَيلُ وَاللَيلُ وَالبَيداءُ تَعرِفُني *** وَالسَيفُ وَالرُمحُ وَالقِرطاسُ وَالقَلَمُ
    Swift steeds, dreary nights, and the desolate wasteland, all know me full well
    As do the sword, the spear, the paper and the pen.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luminous View Post
    @Shadow Play, aw, I really appreciate you sharing what you did, with how uncomfortable I know it can be to share things like that. (Sharing vulnerable things in public is very uncomfortable for me, too.)

    For what it's worth, what you describe might just be you being very much 5sp. Sx can be toward things: being hooked by something, 'turned on' energetically. It's possible to be asexual and have sx, for instance. Especially with 5, it's not going to be dropping walls and being psychologically nude with just anyone.
    Thanks?

    I mainly emphasised the intimacy aspect in my previous post, but intensity isn't something I long for, either. I've abstained my entire life from drugs and alcohol because I want to stay in control of my faculties, and not allow myself to be consumed by the chemical rush from getting high. The closest I get to being "turned on" in the way you describe is being a tad obsessive about my interests or getting engrossed in a project. That's not something specific to instinctual variants, though.
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  3. #23
    Moderator Yuu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrophagus View Post
    It's like asking for a friend to come along with you for some venture. If he doesn't show up, you're still fine and you go get things done. (Minus the waste of time of calling the other person which makes you prefer to never ever call them again since their being with you is ultimately superficial. )


    The social part is always a plus thing for me.
    And ironically, their lack of ability keep their shit together and do what they say they're going to is part of why I'd prefer them not to come along in the first place.

    But I always make clear distinction between " This is something I am doing for fun so i don't care if everything goes according to plan. hell, I'm not gonna plan anything." and " This is something I need to get done so i don't want anyone interfering."
    " Do something, even if it's wrong."

    " I don't wanna have to but I will, if that's what I'm supposed to do
    We don't wanna set up for the kill, but that's what I'm 'bout to do."

  4. #24
    Habitual Fi LineStepper JocktheMotie's Avatar
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    Hmm, good question. I wouldn't say dislike, though it's sort of a constant struggle.

    Sometimes you just wish you could turn the all consuming, conflagration-esque hunger and obsession off. I'm apparently sp second, but it often doesn't feel that way, as I've always had a feeling of personal invulnerability, and the general withholding nature of my type 5 can look like self-preservation. Social second never really made a ton of sense to me, though I tend to navigate social entities and constructs pretty well and find it easy to see the threads of power and influence in communities. But the sx first...sometimes it sucks. And puts me in situations where I'm overextended or exposed that ultimately feeds the hunger for intensity of sx, continuing the chain reaction. Sometimes I look back, or look to others with different concerns in life, and think, "you know, maybe a simpler, less voracious life would be kind of nice."

    But then I get hungry again.


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  5. #25
    Mastermind Fieldmarshal Sacrophagus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    And ironically, their lack of ability keep their shit together and do what they say they're going to is part of why I'd prefer them not to come along in the first place.

    But I always make clear distinction between " This is something I am doing for fun so i don't care if everything goes according to plan. hell, I'm not gonna plan anything." and " This is something I need to get done so i don't want anyone interfering."
    Correct.

    In the casual settings, I might include someone that has low probability of showing up, and we still carry on the night as if he's not coming at all. We never rely on him coming.
    If he comes, alright, if not, we're just having fun.

    الخَيلُ وَاللَيلُ وَالبَيداءُ تَعرِفُني *** وَالسَيفُ وَالرُمحُ وَالقِرطاسُ وَالقَلَمُ
    Swift steeds, dreary nights, and the desolate wasteland, all know me full well
    As do the sword, the spear, the paper and the pen.
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  6. #26
    Inactive For A Bit RadicalDoubt's Avatar
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    I'll focus on different things since @Shadow Play basically covered everything I was thinking lel

    I think the thing I dislike most about sp/so, and maybe sx blindness in general (more so in it's extremes) is the emptiness of it. There's an evasion of passions and depth and a lack of desire to really connect to anything else. Things can be energizing, but just as easily dropped as though they were meaningless, and this can apply to both passions, peoples, and interests. Really connecting to anything is a struggle if there's even a desire to do so because sp as at it's core creates boundaries and evades vulnerability.

    What I like about it though is the same thing I hate, the ability to keep a distance. You don't have to stick to something that harms you because the attachment just isn't there. Being able to be sufficient and maintain the self is always a great trait to have, and the ability to know where the boundaries are between intrusion and friendly questioning as well as pleasure and blatant hedonism or even harm is always great. Personally, I struggle a lot with feeling connected to society or even being aware of most things pertaining to that tbh (for a sp/so, I'm really just sp), but with healthier sp/so's, the comment "Connected but distant" is typically mentioned, being able to keep out of the struggles of the masses but not being completely oblivious to what's happening and the way that they function.
    - 6w5 1w9 3w4 - sp/so - INTP -
    “My deplorable mania for analysis exhausts me. I doubt everything, even my doubt.” Gustave Flaubert


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  7. #27
    The Devil of TypoC EJCC's Avatar
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    ^ yikes, the above ( @RadicalDoubt ) is so true that it's probably going to render my upcoming list redundant as well. But I'm gonna do it anyway because the Venn diagram isn't QUITE a circle. For example, I don't see sp/so as passionless. it's all there, it's just muted and needs teasing out. (I've been told I'm very intense - which is part of why I didn't realize I was sp-first for a long time.)

    Pros:
    - intuitive understanding of personal boundaries and how to set them.
    - both incredibly self-sufficient and can help others be self-sufficient/take care of their self-pres needs. legitimately caring about others while also putting the oxygen mask on first without feeling too terrible about it.
    - warm and open to nearly everyone - or if not warm and open, then simply someone with an equal opportunity approach to the people in their lives, strangers or non.

    Cons:
    - when you're The Self-Sufficient One to yourself and everyone in your life, it's all well and good until you finally need help, and you realize that you're trapped in a prison of your own making.
    - that warm openness (see "pros") has a brick wall behind it if the potential friend in question isn't one of a very finite number of close friends, i.e. the maximum number of close friends the sp/so has energy to maintain closeness with.
    - this one might just be me, so "i" pronouns incoming: i personally tend to forget that other people care about me, and can feel totally adrift and alone and like a ghost in my own life until someone forces me to remember that i'm loved and needed and appreciated. that doesn't stay lodged in my brain, ever.
    ”We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous.”

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  8. #28
    H Y P E R B E A M Earl Grey's Avatar
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    Shadow Play and EJCC. Words right out of my mouth. Yikes (2)

    I was going to say that there was nothing I disliked, but

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    - when you're The Self-Sufficient One to yourself and everyone in your life, it's all well and good until you finally need help, and you realize that you're trapped in a prison of your own making.
    - that warm openness (see "pros") has a brick wall behind it if the potential friend in question isn't one of a very finite number of close friends, i.e. the maximum number of close friends the sp/sx has energy to maintain closeness with.
    - this one might just be me, so "i" pronouns incoming: i personally tend to forget that other people care about me, and can feel totally adrift and alone and like a ghost in my own life until someone forces me to remember that i'm loved and needed and appreciated. that doesn't stay lodged in my brain, ever.
    I wouldn't say I 'dislike' this, but it has caused problems and bit me a few times. Just a side effect of seeing yourself and only yourself when you look into the future. No family, no friends, no lovers, just yourself. I wonder if that's just me, or an sp-first thing. Or both. I don't particularly like or dislike it, but I remember noting that it was different from other people who look ahead and, more commonly than not, see other people with them. Something of a "Wait- you don't do this?" moment.
    S K Y K I N G
    It is said to have lived for hundreds of millions of years in the earth's ozone layer, above the clouds.
    Its existence had been completely unknown because it lived so high in the sky.
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  9. #29
    ˚*•̩̩͙✩•̩̩͙* ˚* Luminous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Grey View Post
    I wouldn't say I 'dislike' this, but it has caused problems and bit me a few times. Just a side effect of seeing yourself and only yourself when you look into the future. No family, no friends, no lovers, just yourself. I wonder if that's just me, or an sp-first thing. Or both. I don't particularly like or dislike it, but I remember noting that it was different from other people who look ahead and, more commonly than not, see other people with them. Something of a "Wait- you don't do this?" moment.
    I think that's more you than it is sp dom.
    ✦ᏖᏒᎥᎮ ค ℓιɬɬℓɛ Ꮭıɠɧɬ ʄคŋɬคʂɬıƈ✦ -: ✦ :- ƒ O ᖇ G E ᗪ I ᑎ ƒ I ᖇ E ❋-: ✦ :-★ᴅᴏɴ'ᴛ ꜰᴇᴇᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ᴇᴇʟꜱ★
    * ・゚ ・゚ * ⊱9w1✶S✶2w1✶X✶5w6⊰ * ・゚ ・゚ *
    ✦Շђєяє คяє ๓σяє тнιηﻭѕ ιη нєανєη αη∂ єαятн Շђαη คяє ∂яєαмт σƒ ιη уσυя ρнιℓσѕσρну.✦

  10. #30
    The Devil of TypoC EJCC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Grey View Post
    I wouldn't say I 'dislike' this, but it has caused problems and bit me a few times. Just a side effect of seeing yourself and only yourself when you look into the future. No family, no friends, no lovers, just yourself. I wonder if that's just me, or an sp-first thing. Or both. I don't particularly like or dislike it, but I remember noting that it was different from other people who look ahead and, more commonly than not, see other people with them. Something of a "Wait- you don't do this?" moment.
    This is interesting - I do only really see myself when I look ahead. I would say that being surrounded by loved ones is a high priority, but that's a pretty vague vision. Who will those loved ones be? I dunno. But I hope I have them and feel loved and safe around them.
    Last edited by EJCC; 08-15-2019 at 10:22 PM. Reason: I'm a post editing fiend and I cannot be stopped
    ”We know a little about a lot of things; just enough to make us dangerous.”

    ESTJ - LSE - ESTj (mbti/socionics)
    1w2/4w5/7w8 sp/so (enneagram)
    want to ask me something? go for it!

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