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Whole30 foods vs Traditional healthy habits

kyuuei

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http://whole9life.com/itstartswithfood/ The source of the information.

Basically, you avoid anything gluten based, wheat based, fake foods, etc. It's a typical paleo diet, but better outlined so I thought I'd use it.

My question is: is this a load of crap and overly restrictive and demonizing? Or is there merit to this diet?

If people have diseases like auto immune disorders, borderline diabetes, etc. would this diet be vastly superior to regular old eating right and cutting out the fake, processed foods? Does cutting out things like corn really seem to make a difference for people more than just eating what we consider the 'right' things?

This diet makes it very, very clear that not even substitutes are allowed--no "pancakes paleo style!" or anything like that. The relationship with food is eat to live and nothing more.

My immediate thought was "Cut out beans and corn?! Those are natural veggies, what the HELL is wrong with beans and corn!? If people are sick from beans, then I quit and the world sucks!" But... People are allergic to things like pollen all the time, on massive scales. It doesn't kill them, but their bodies just still, after years and years of living in the same spot, cannot handle the type of pollen in the air certain times of the year. What if, for many of us, our bodies really are ill equipped to handle the sort of foods we are sticking in it now?

I'm not looking for scientific answers necessarily, though they are welcome.. more so for viewpoints. Is 'everything in moderation' a liberal excuse for eating what we want, or are paleo diets a crock of shit that should have died with the rest of the people in Jurassic Park?
 

ygolo

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Maybe it works because it aims high and you negotiate yourself back to a regularly healthy diet?
 

Rasofy

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Corn is known for having a high glycemic index. For the most part, foods with a high GI should be avoided if one (really) wants to maintain an optimal energy level and/or lose weight.

There's an exception to the rule: after workouts, food with a high IG is recommended, in order to restore the repleted glycogen reserves and speed up recovery.

Don't know what's wrong with beans though. The GI is good and experts seem to recommend.
 

kelric

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I'm not looking for scientific answers necessarily, though they are welcome.. more so for viewpoints. Is 'everything in moderation' a liberal excuse for eating what we want, or are paleo diets a crock of shit that should have died with the rest of the people in Jurassic Park?

Hi Kyuuei -- thought I'd chip in, as I finished a "whole 30" a few weeks ago, and more or less still follow it. From what I've read / been told, the idea is twofold. First, try and prevent huge swings in blood sugar. Hence the no sweets, and limiting or excluding foods with a high glycemic index. Second, eliminate things that have been shown to cause inflammation in the digestive tract. Now, this doesn't include things that *everybody* has trouble with -- it's more of a way to try and identify items that you may have minor issues with, but have become "normal" to you (so you're not at your best, but you can't tell until you cut them out and see how you feel). The idea is to get that "clean baseline" and then add stuff (like dairy, legumes, etc.) back in one at a time to see how you feel. I just haven't bothered to add stuff back in.

As for the paleo diet itself, I'm (more or less) doing fine with it. It does take some time to adjust, and among other things, it's notably expensive and time-intensive compared to what, at least I, used to eat. I'll also add in that some people see huge changes after a few weeks -- feeling better, more energy, etc. I really didn't -- but I did lose 15 lbs in that first month, and have more or less stabilized at 180, which is a pretty good weight for me. I figure that at the very least, eliminating processed foods as much as possible can't be anything but good.

Anyway, for me it was a good thing to try, but not really revolutionary. But still, good enough that I'm sticking with it.
 

gromit

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Corn is known for having a high glycemic index. For the most part, foods with a high GI should be avoided if one (really) wants to maintain an optimal energy level and/or lose weight.

There's an exception to the rule: after workouts, food with a high IG is recommended, in order to restore the repleted glycogen reserves and speed up recovery.

Don't know what's wrong with beans though. The GI is good and experts seem to recommend.

Yes I had heard something similar about corn. Essentially "empty calories" much like white bread or pasta. I had thought beans had significant fiber and nutrition though.
 

kelric

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Yes I had heard something similar about corn. Essentially "empty calories" much like white bread or pasta. I had thought beans had significant fiber and nutrition though.

They do -- they also have some chemicals that are supposedly bad, though (although you can leach them out by soaking/cooking). It's sort of a gradient -- doughnuts/sugar - REALLY bad, beans - a little bad.
 

Lark

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I think this is a great thread, I'm thinking of gathering information about all the different diets which are popular right now, the paleo one included, also some of the micro diets and alternate day diets which are to do with habits rather than content or food groups and trying them out systematically and blogging about it, like one after another and tracking how they make me feel and what difference they make to me physically.

Sort of my own personal research project :newwink:

Great thread. Subscribed.
 

gromit

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They're only empty if you have a very sedentary lifestyle.

When I said "empty calories" I meant that you get very little else besides the calories.

It's true carbohydrates provide energy for exercise. But you can also get carbohydrates from other sources which provide more nutrition/vitamins along with the carbs: fruit, whole grain, sweet potato, beans, etc.

If you are more active, calories from white bread, etc. are still empty, just that you're more likely to burn the carbs as fuel rather than store them as fat.

They do -- they also have some chemicals that are supposedly bad, though (although you can leach them out by soaking/cooking). It's sort of a gradient -- doughnuts/sugar - REALLY bad, beans - a little bad.

Interesting, I'd never heard of that before. Chemicals like pesticides from the farming process or naturally-occurring chemicals?
 

gromit

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As for the original post [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION], I'd say if you aren't struggling with weight or food intolerance then something like what you describe is probably overkill. If you are struggling with either of those, it may be worth it to try cutting out different things and evaluating to see if anything improves.

I have a friend who lost 40lb using the "4-hr diet" - he knows there's not solid evidence backing it up, and thus refers to his diet as "pseudo-science" but he has followed it more or less religiously and seen results. My mom cut out refined carbs and saw her weight and "bad" cholesterol go down. Friends who have been having upset stomachs a lot have cut out wheat products and felt a lot better after. So I would guess that individuals metabolize differently and it's worth trying different things to see what makes the most sense.

And talk to a nutritionist/dietitian if it's covered by your insurance.
 

FDG

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It's true carbohydrates provide energy for exercise. But you can also get carbohydrates from other sources which provide more nutrition/vitamins along with the carbs: fruit, whole grain, sweet potato, beans, etc.

Most of these are either slower / harder to digest (beans) or have a lower caloric power per serving, so it's harder to reach a given level of calories.

The point being, that if your profession or your hobbies require a large caloric intake, it makes sense to use pasta or bread or rice even though they do not provide other nutrients, since you have plenty of venues to obtain those others.
 

gromit

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Most of these are either slower / harder to digest (beans) or have a lower caloric power per serving, so it's harder to reach a given level of calories.

The point being, that if your profession or your hobbies require a large caloric intake, it makes sense to use pasta or bread or rice even though they do not provide other nutrients, since you have plenty of venues to obtain those others.

Yeah for definite!

When I'm going on a long grueling hiking or backpacking trip, I require a lot more carbs than normal. When my dad was working construction, in the winter he ate sooooo much food at every meal and snacks (finished off each day on the sofa with a giant bowl of ice cream) and still lost weight.

But I would imagine that most people with free time to sit at their computers and post on this forum do not have that type of caloric demand.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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As for the original post [MENTION=4939]kyuuei[/MENTION], I'd say if you aren't struggling with weight or food intolerance then something like what you describe is probably overkill. If you are struggling with either of those, it may be worth it to try cutting out different things and evaluating to see if anything improves.

I have a friend who lost 40lb using the "4-hr diet" - he knows there's not solid evidence backing it up, and thus refers to his diet as "pseudo-science" but he has followed it more or less religiously and seen results. My mom cut out refined carbs and saw her weight and "bad" cholesterol go down. Friends who have been having upset stomachs a lot have cut out wheat products and felt a lot better after. So I would guess that individuals metabolize differently and it's worth trying different things to see what makes the most sense.

And talk to a nutritionist/dietitian if it's covered by your insurance.

I was pretty much going to say this same thing. My friend is really limited on what she can eat that's deemed "healthy" because of a pituitary tumor. She's pretty well all vegan now because of it. Even at that, she can't eat everything that's classified as vegan because some stuff that others eat with no problems makes her really sick.
 

Thalassa

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I don't necessarily put a lot of trust in it, because some of the longest living and healthiest people in the world live in places where a lot of bread or rice is consumed, along with veggies, beans and lentils, and fish.

I think the Mediterranian diet and Japanese diets are the best diets in the world. However, some Indian people seem to live very long vibrant lives (usually yogis) with their vegetarian diet that includes dairy but not eggs.

People who eat less meat, or who only eat fish and then an otherwise veg diet, tend to weigh less.
 

Thalassa

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Hi Kyuuei -- thought I'd chip in, as I finished a "whole 30" a few weeks ago, and more or less still follow it. From what I've read / been told, the idea is twofold. First, try and prevent huge swings in blood sugar. Hence the no sweets, and limiting or excluding foods with a high glycemic index. Second, eliminate things that have been shown to cause inflammation in the digestive tract. Now, this doesn't include things that *everybody* has trouble with -- it's more of a way to try and identify items that you may have minor issues with, but have become "normal" to you (so you're not at your best, but you can't tell until you cut them out and see how you feel). The idea is to get that "clean baseline" and then add stuff (like dairy, legumes, etc.) back in one at a time to see how you feel. I just haven't bothered to add stuff back in.

The bolded is why it works. In pretty much every culture where people aren't absolutely huge, their sugar consumption is much lower, and if they do eat a lot of carbs it tends to be more whole grains.

I really have gotten into dumb fights with paleo people on-line, since they seem to think grains are the devil, and to me they seem like right-wing anarcho-capitalist libertarians in their fanatical embrace of something that, compared with IRL evidence, doesn't seem to be true, since these people eating non-paleo diets are so slender, healthy, and living to be old in other countries.

Just stop eating sugar and junk food, and eat less refined carbs.

People in the U.S. also eat TONS of meat compared to most other parts of the world.

I can understand cutting out things to see if you're allergic to them (wheat, dairy) if you really have a problem, but can't you just go to an allergist for that? :dry:
 

Randomnity

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my opinion after a fair bit of casual research over the years:

-processed food, refined carbs, etc = bad
-junk food/fried food = really bad
-way too much fat/sugar even from "healthy" foods = bad
-therefore nuts, fruit, very sweet vegetables etc = good in moderation, bad in huge amounts
-soy, dairy, meat = good in moderation, slightly bad in huge amounts
-leafy greens = good in any amount
-beans, other veggies = good, unless maybe it's the only thing you eat

The whole gluten/wheat/dairy thing I think is dependent on whether you're sensitive to them. Some people are and don't know it, so it might be worth a shot for everyone to try eliminating them and see how they feel (I don't plan on bothering, myself), but I don't think they're at all unhealthy for people who aren't sensitive to them.
 

kyuuei

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... I think the Mediterranian diet and Japanese diets are the best diets in the world. .....

People who eat less meat, or who only eat fish and then an otherwise veg diet, tend to weigh less.

This I definitely agree with. I read this book a lady wrote called 'Why Japanese women never get old or fat' or something like that, and the five 'pillars' she used were basically the same everyone always preaches: portion control, low processed foods, more home cooked meals, and staple foods making up the bulk of the diet being versatile and healthy (in the book's case, fish, rice, vegetables, fruits, and tea) ..

I've been on this case for a while, but I think (as I'm a licensed nutrition consultant, I should have a theory I stick with) as long as you follow the 5 basic health pillars (water, diet, exercise, sleep, and sun), you'll be fine health wise as you can possibly be yourself.

People in the U.S. also eat TONS of meat compared to most other parts of the world.

I can understand cutting out things to see if you're allergic to them (wheat, dairy) if you really have a problem, but can't you just go to an allergist for that? :dry:

We eat meat with every meal.. and to be honest, I don't really care about it so much, but my father thinks it unspeakable if we don't have meat in our meals. I have gotten us on the 'meatless dinner night' once a week, but I've been experimenting with recipes we can make that will incorporate less meat into the diet.

my opinion after a fair bit of casual research over the years:

-processed food, refined carbs, etc = bad
-junk food/fried food = really bad
-way too much fat/sugar even from "healthy" foods = bad
-therefore nuts, fruit, very sweet vegetables etc = good in moderation, bad in huge amounts
-soy, dairy, meat = good in moderation, slightly bad in huge amounts
-leafy greens = good in any amount
-beans, other veggies = good, unless maybe it's the only thing you eat

The whole gluten/wheat/dairy thing I think is dependent on whether you're sensitive to them. Some people are and don't know it, so it might be worth a shot for everyone to try eliminating them and see how they feel (I don't plan on bothering, myself), but I don't think they're at all unhealthy for people who aren't sensitive to them.

:laugh: Pretty cool scale you have there. Mine is way more lenient:
- Burn more calories than you consume
- Let yourself enjoy things every so often
- Stick to a good diet so that you can do the last one
- Make a conscious effort to eat the best ingredients you can afford (time and money wise)
- If your favorite foods are unhealthy, experiment until you find a way to make them healthy
 

Randomnity

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Oh I totally agree there. I don't really follow a diet, other than trying to eat more "real food" rather than very-processed food (and often failing, haha). I think that's probably the most important thing. Lots of variety (of real foods, anyway) always helps too.
 
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