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Meditation

Kas

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I'd recommend you read Seneca's Letters of a Stoic to begin with, then maybe some other Stoic material after that because it sounds like you are searching for a reasoned peace of mind or peace of mind through reasoned reflection as opposed to this no-mind state which has been described.

I prefer it too, I've done a lot of different sorts of meditation and I've found that rather than the still, undistracted, quietism of some I prefer the western thinking, intellect or contemplative reading variety, or Rousseau's solitary walker variety too, as opposed to emptying my head I need to think things through and then peace of mind sets in when I see everything with the proper perspective.

Stoic philosophy is the one I'm most interested in. I hope with time I'm going to change my mindset in a more stoic way (although sometimes it argue a lot with my temper).
Funny that you figured it out so easily.

I loved Meditations (how proper due to thread title) by Aurelius and I come back to them, now I read Dialogues of Seneca. Probably it's going to take me a lot of time (I read philosophy books slowly; part by part), maybe I will read later Letters of Stoic as you advice. If you have any other stoic recommendations, you can write me.

I don't think though that one argue with another (I mean meditations).
 

gromit

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I like guided meditations. There are lots of apps for it with different length meditations. I like about 3-10 minutes usually.

I find that afterwards my thinking is more clear and I feel very focused and motivated.
 

Riva

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[MENTION=24824]Kas[/MENTION] [MENTION=18694]The Wailing Specter[/MENTION]

Watch this. It's gold.


I saw this video by coincidence and it's hands down the best video on meditation I've seen and it's less than 2 minutes. I should watch more of his videos. Haven't seen any before.

I would add to what he says:-

Tell mind - 'hello watch what I am doing' and go about your daily work (whether it's walking, talking, eating). You can help the mind by from time to time repeating what you are doing. For example - I am walking.......... I am walking................. I am walking.
 

Avocado

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[MENTION=24824]Kas[/MENTION] [MENTION=18694]The Wailing Specter[/MENTION]

Watch this. It's gold.


I saw this video by coincidence and it's hands down the best video on meditation I've seen and it's less than 2 minutes. I should watch more of his videos. Haven't seen any before.

I would add to what he says:-

Tell mind - 'hello watch what I am doing' and go about your daily work (whether it's walking, talking, eating). You can help the mind by from time to time repeating what you are doing. For example - I am walking.......... I am walking................. I am walking.

Brilliant
 

Kas

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[MENTION=24824]Kas[/MENTION] [MENTION=18694]The Wailing Specter[/MENTION]

Watch this. It's gold.


I saw this video by coincidence and it's hands down the best video on meditation I've seen and it's less than 2 minutes. I should watch more of his videos. Haven't seen any before.

I would add to what he says:-

Tell mind - 'hello watch what I am doing' and go about your daily work (whether it's walking, talking, eating). You can help the mind by from time to time repeating what you are doing. For example - I am walking.......... I am walking................. I am walking.

I really liked it! Made me watch a couple more of his videos. He talks in a simple, direct way and I appreciate sense of humour;)
 

Kas

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As I am in this thread -short update (yes I know it's not my blog...). I have just recently began reading Harris book, was kind of busy before, but so far it's a very good read.

I'm meditating about 2 times a week in home, sometimes with guided meditations, sometimes without. Usually about 5-10 minutes, longer is too long so far to me. And I don't won't to treat it as "I must", because it wouldn't make sense. Sometimes also during daily activities, as riva advised before.

I tried both mindfulness and metta meditation. Mindfulness meditation seems to come more easy to me, so that's usually a method I try. Maybe it's because I'm such a pessimist:unsure: But I'll try to use different guided metta meditations than in app.

Generally it's a good experience, I think I have less of what I would call 'inner noise'.
 
Last edited:

Mole

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An interesting aspect of meditation is once we distract our mind with any repetition, such as Om or a mantra, or just following our breathe or our footsteps, we enter the inner world of meditation.

The inner world of meditation is different from the outer world of the fully awake, in that we direct the outer world but listen to the inner world.

And as they say, there are many rooms in the world of meditation. The first is where we just leave our mind to keep on talking. The mind rather likes this and starts to relax.

And as our mind relaxes we enter the room of the imagination. This is a very tempting room to stay in, as we can imagine almost anything, so we let our mind enjoy our imagination, and this may take some time.

Then after a while, all of a sudden, our mind stops talking completely. We are wide awake but with no inner talk, so we are able to take in the outer world without any self talk. We are able to take in the outer world without any commentary. And most interesting, we are able to take in the outer world without any fantasy. Extraordinary!
 

Pionart

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Then after a while, all of a sudden, our mind stops talking completely. We are wide awake but with no inner talk, so we are able to take in the outer world without any self talk. We are able to take in the outer world without any commentary. And most interesting, we are able to take in the outer world without any fantasy. Extraordinary!

I'm definitely a fantasy-prone person, and I find meditation to be very helpful. I practice mindfulness where I pay attention to the environment, and any internal chatter remains in the background so that I am barely aware of it, and mostly become aware of it in a reactive "nope, not going there" sort of way. I find it immediately calming to enter mindfulness, and I don't need to stay there long at all to notice a real difference. Meditation activates the chemical GABA in the brain which has anti-anxiety properties, and as someone with high levels of anxiety, I find it immensely beneficial.
 

Kas

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I'm definitely a fantasy-prone person, and I find meditation to be very helpful. I practice mindfulness where I pay attention to the environment, and any internal chatter remains in the background so that I am barely aware of it, and mostly become aware of it in a reactive "nope, not going there" sort of way. I find it immediately calming to enter mindfulness, and I don't need to stay there long at all to notice a real difference. Meditation activates the chemical GABA in the brain which has anti-anxiety properties, and as someone with high levels of anxiety, I find it immensely beneficial.

Yes! Medical studies show it's reducing anxiety and some even show less cardiovascular diseases (probably because of reducing stress).

How long it is, since you started to meditate? Have you learned yourself or did you use any sources of information about it?
 

Kilgore Trout

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-Is it possible to learn to meditate out of any groups, classes etc? If so give me advices. How? Any books/sources?


Groups can certainly help, especially if you share similar values, motivations, and practices. There might even be a talk or lecture afterward about what you practiced. Meditation retreats, where you're around the same people for a certain period of time, can intimately involve you in what you are doing. You eat and sleep in the same place as your group, devoted entirely to your practice. You might be away from your phones and laptops and meditate for hours every day. The question is, will you be able to maintain that same level of awareness when you leave the retreat, when you have to deal with a micromanaging boss or an annoying neighbor?

Some people, for instance, go to the gym to be in an atmosphere of improvement. They are reinforced through their exposure to others, want to connect to their communities, while always having a place, a special space, which acts as a sanctuary. Momentum is important too. The more you go, the more you want to go, the less you go, the harder it is to go.

Partners can hold you accountable for your actions, can teach you new perspectives and disciplines. I enjoy partners who are passionate about their disciplines, but still make me laugh when we practice together. They help me to remember that I am not a zen robot. I am a human and shouldn't take myself so seriously. After all, we are only playing.

I prefer to meditate alone. Sometimes I listen to guided meditations or read books about different techniques and try them out. Jack Kornfield, Ram Dass, Alan Watts, Joko Beck, and others, are good resources. They can provide the context for the meditation. They can give maps or models for what you experience, why you feel that way, what your purpose is, and so on. You can learn through them as guides, but not as the ultimate authorities for your subject-oriented experimentation. In the end, you are a light onto yourself. You are your own authority. All their wisdom will be useless if you are not practicing. So, while groups and partners and others can be extraordinarily helpful, they are not necessary. I still suggest that you should try to learn from everyone and everything, being in groups and alone.

-What kind of meditations do you advice?


I mostly do zazen, koan practice, and pranayama. Sometimes I combine these techniques. Sometimes I don't. At the same time, I practice mindfulness when I'm doing other things, such as martial arts, skateboarding, running on the trail, talking to a friend, getting stuck in traffic, writing, and so on. Mindfulness encompasses all pursuits, all activities, even beyond the Zafu cushion. "When you walk, walk, when you sit, sit, when you eat, eat."

-How to not get distracted?

Being distracted is natural. Beginners often experience what is called "Monkey Mind." Thoughts/feelings/sensations will come, go, come, go. Do not grasp onto them, do not block them. Watch them as they transform within you. Let them go.

-Have you noticed any improvement/change in yourself due to meditations?


I can list all the neuro-scientific and subjective benefits, but then, you will only get an intellectual understanding.

What's more important is that you practice. Let me know how you change.
 

Pionart

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Yes! Medical studies show it's reducing anxiety and some even show less cardiovascular diseases (probably because of reducing stress).

How long it is, since you started to meditate? Have you learned yourself or did you use any sources of information about it?

About a year since I've been doing it somewhat regularly, although I made attempts at it for many years before that.

I've read about it a bit and I've done guided meditation in counselling. Initially I used a mantra, now I focus on breathing.
 

Mole

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-Is it possible to learn to meditate out of any groups, classes etc? If so give me advices. How? Any books/sources?


Groups can certainly help, especially if you share similar values, motivations, and practices. There might even be a talk or lecture afterward about what you practiced. Meditation retreats, where you're around the same people for a certain period of time, can intimately involve you in what you are doing. You eat and sleep in the same place as your group, devoted entirely to your practice. You might be away from your phones and laptops and meditate for hours every day. The question is, will you be able to maintain that same level of awareness when you leave the retreat, when you have to deal with a micromanaging boss or an annoying neighbor?

Some people, for instance, go to the gym to be in an atmosphere of improvement. They are reinforced through their exposure to others, want to connect to their communities, while always having a place, a special space, which acts as a sanctuary. Momentum is important too. The more you go, the more you want to go, the less you go, the harder it is to go.

Partners can hold you accountable for your actions, can teach you new perspectives and disciplines. I enjoy partners who are passionate about their disciplines, but still make me laugh when we practice together. They help me to remember that I am not a zen robot. I am a human and shouldn't take myself so seriously. After all, we are only playing.

I prefer to meditate alone. Sometimes I listen to guided meditations or read books about different techniques and try them out. Jack Kornfield, Ram Dass, Alan Watts, Joko Beck, and others, are good resources. They can provide the context for the meditation. They can give maps or models for what you experience, why you feel that way, what your purpose is, and so on. You can learn through them as guides, but not as the ultimate authorities for your subject-oriented experimentation. In the end, you are a light onto yourself. You are your own authority. All their wisdom will be useless if you are not practicing. So, while groups and partners and others can be extraordinarily helpful, they are not necessary. I still suggest that you should try to learn from everyone and everything, being in groups and alone.

-What kind of meditations do you advice?


I mostly do zazen, koan practice, and pranayama. Sometimes I combine these techniques. Sometimes I don't. At the same time, I practice mindfulness when I'm doing other things, such as martial arts, skateboarding, running on the trail, talking to a friend, getting stuck in traffic, writing, and so on. Mindfulness encompasses all pursuits, all activities, even beyond the Zafu cushion. "When you walk, walk, when you sit, sit, when you eat, eat."

-How to not get distracted?

Being distracted is natural. Beginners often experience what is called "Monkey Mind." Thoughts/feelings/sensations will come, go, come, go. Do not grasp onto them, do not block them. Watch them as they transform within you. Let them go.

-Have you noticed any improvement/change in yourself due to meditations?


I can list all the neuro-scientific and subjective benefits, but then, you will only get an intellectual understanding.

What's more important is that you practice. Let me know how you change.

One of the problems with meditation in a secular culture is that most meditation has a religious inheritance, and is used effectively to teach a particular religion.

However it is important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and keep meditation as a natural facility of the mind.

A good place to start is, "Spirituality Without Religion", by Dr Sam Harris; and then follow up with, "The Way of Trance", and, "From Magic to Technology", both by Dennis Wier.
 

Mole

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About a year since I've been doing it somewhat regularly, although I made attempts at it for many years before that.

I've read about it a bit and I've done guided meditation in counselling. Initially I used a mantra, now I focus on breathing.

Meditation and similar calming practices are said to boost the firing of GABA in the brain, which I've seen termed the "anti-anxiety molecule".

There are two elements to meditation: the first is repetition and the second inner focus.

The repetition can be anything from Om to a mantra to our breathing or our steps as we walk, or indeed any repetition at all.

And the inner focus is turning our attention from controlling our experience to listening to our experience.

So all we need is a repetition and listening to the inner result.
 

Mole

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I'm definitely a fantasy-prone person, and I find meditation to be very helpful. I practice mindfulness where I pay attention to the environment, and any internal chatter remains in the background so that I am barely aware of it, and mostly become aware of it in a reactive "nope, not going there" sort of way. I find it immediately calming to enter mindfulness, and I don't need to stay there long at all to notice a real difference. Meditation activates the chemical GABA in the brain which has anti-anxiety properties, and as someone with high levels of anxiety, I find it immensely beneficial.

For most introverts to realise our gifts, we need to learn to systematically relax. A good place to start is, "Relief Without Drugs", by Ainslie Mears.
 

Riva

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One of the problems with meditation in a secular culture is that most meditation has a religious inheritance, and is used effectively to teach a particular religion.

However it is important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater and keep meditation as a natural facility of the mind.

A good place to start is, "Spirituality Without Religion", by Dr Sam Harris; and then follow up with, "The Way of Trance", and, "From Magic to Technology", both by Dennis Wier.

'Spirituality without religion' is basically all Buddhism and Buddhist meditation techniques. I am beginning to wonder whether you have even read the book.
 

Mole

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'Spirituality without religion' is basically all Buddhism and Buddhist meditation techniques. I am beginning to wonder whether you have even read the book.

I am sick and tired of your personal comments about me. Please keep your personal comments to yourself and address the issues.

Also Sam Harris is a trained meditator from the Buddhist tradition. However he has firmly rejected the religious elements of Buddhism but kept the natural ability of the mind to enjoy meditation.

And you only have to see him to realise that secular meditation has had a profound effect on him.
 

Kilgore Trout

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I forgot to mention Metta Loving-Kindness meditation. Metta and other forms of meditation, such as Vipassanā, support each other. You begin with positive feelings toward yourself, whether you are repeating a mantra (I love myself, I wish myself health, etc.), you're recalling positive memories, reflecting on your good qualities, telling yourself what you're grateful for about yourself and your life, or visualizing yourself happy, smiling. You are the foundation for this practice. Some people might find this the hardest part of the practice, because they have to express love/compassion toward themselves.

Eventually you will expand these techniques to other people, moving from somebody you respect to a friend to a neutral person to somebody you don't like to somebody you have a lot of trouble with. Some people practice only one stage, or all stages, in a session. Other people spend months or years on one stage. It's important to have a foundation to build from. Internal resistance will happen at certain moments, but through systematic practice, states will develop such as empathy, gratitude, and acceptance. As an experiment, practice Metta meditation for one week, thirty minutes to one hour a day, and pay attention to how you treat others and how they relate to you.
 

Kas

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[MENTION=28355]Kilgore Trout[/MENTION] thanks a lot for everything you wrote.

What's more important is that you practice. Let me know how you change.

I have written about my progress on the previous page :) I'm going to update in future.
Generally I'm trying to practice mindfulness and metta meditation, though the second one comes with more difficulty to me.

As an experiment, practice Metta meditation for one week, thirty minutes to one hour a day, and pay attention to how you treat others and how they relate to you.

For now about 20 minutes seems maximum to me. I'm trying to slowly make it slightly longer. But I may try this.



Something I noticed while mindfulness meditation is that most of the time I'm very pointless about my behaviour, body language (it's usually bizarre to me seeing myself in video) it's interesting to notice I for example walk fast with long steps or tend to tap out the rhythm of the song on the steering wheel
 

Mole

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An interesting result of meditation is the return of the repressed.

Most of us are quite incapable of handling the return of our own repressions, and we need the help of a professional therapist.

Fortunately our own repressions are quite resilient in the face of the provocation of meditation. And in order to avoid becoming conscious of our own repressions, we sabotage the meditation.

So our repressions have a failsafe method of ensuring their own survival, even in the face of meditation.

So we try and try to meditate and fail and fail without knowing why. And naturally we think we have just not tried hard enough, and if only we keep on practising and practising that somehow, magically, we will be able to meditate.

This is why meditators are comical, and why we become addicted to the repetition of trying and failing to meditate.
 
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