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Broad shoulders makes up 80% of a male's attractiveness than big phallus and height

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
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My ex was ENTJ. It's important to be aligned on a conceptual level. As long as we both were on the same page about what the plan was, then there was no conflict. Emotional management was more of a challenge. On a lot of levels there were no "breaks" to the relationship. Dating someone who could handle themselves as well as I could meant that we could do pretty much anything, but we didn't always do the best job to stop and ask whether we should do it. Nor was there anyone there to point out when a critical emotional threshold might have been met, and "checking in" might be needed. It was a lot of boom/bust as a result. I grew a shit ton, have some crazy stories from our time together and am without question a better and more whole person for having loved him.

One thing that worked for us was to ask in a disagreement on a scale of 1-10 what the other person's level of "caring" about a given situation was. If one party rated it higher and could give good reasons for it, the other party would just concede the point. It's a system that could be potentially abused, but neither of us really thought in that way, so it worked for us.

We both have a tendency to ignore our emotions about things, she's also 6 years my junior. Early on we would ignore things and they would blow up in our faces. We have had to learn to communicate with one another. She comes from a liberal family and is very culturally liberal, and I have had to work strongly on not being judgmental or dismissive of some of her interests. She however can also be very judgmental about things I like. The election season going the way it has hasn't helped, but God put me here to love her until there is no breath left in my lungs.

The growing has come in fits and starts, but we have to attack our problems head on. Me being older, and having seen more, I've been much more certain of my feelings for her sooner than she has for me. I said I love you first, I wanted her to move in with me relatively quickly etc. etc. I have had to learn to give her the time and space she needs to figure out her own desires for our relationship. To make sure I'm not being manipulative.

Working on our relationship has been one of the toughest and easily the most rewarding things I've ever done. But that work is never finished, and we will always be working to become our best selves.
 

violet_crown

Active member
Joined
Jun 18, 2009
Messages
4,959
MBTI Type
ENTJ
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853
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sx/sp
We both have a tendency to ignore our emotions about things, she's also 6 years my junior. Early on we would ignore things and they would blow up in our faces. We have had to learn to communicate with one another. She comes from a liberal family and is very culturally liberal, and I have had to work strongly on not being judgmental or dismissive of some of her interests. She however can also be very judgmental about things I like. The election season going the way it has hasn't helped, but God put me here to love her until there is no breath left in my lungs.

I can relate to that. I started dating an INFJ guy earlier this yea, and things evolved very quickly for us. He's libertarian by way of a family who are devout Catholics and Tea Party members. Politics are pretty much the only thing we've really fought about. Things like that matter and they don't. Values-wise we're both very closely aligned, but how we feel those things ought to translate policy-wise don't always mesh up. I don't know what it will mean for us, but it hasn't made me feel any differently about wanting to have a future with him. There's been some compromises on both ends, but it's happened in a way that feels healthy and exciting rather than "giving something up".

The growing has come in fits and starts, but we have to attack our problems head on. Me being older, and having seen more, I've been much more certain of my feelings for her sooner than she has for me. I said I love you first, I wanted her to move in with me relatively quickly etc. etc. I have had to learn to give her the time and space she needs to figure out her own desires for our relationship. To make sure I'm not being manipulative.

Working on our relationship has been one of the toughest and easily the most rewarding things I've ever done. But that work is never finished, and we will always be working to become our best selves.

An ENFP girlfriend of mine whom I've known since I was like 8 is really savvy with relationship stuff, and I learned a lot watching her navigate her relationship with her INTP SO (now fiance). One of the things she does that I've tried with the INFJ to pretty good effect has been setting side time to have conversations about the relationship itself. Not specific issues within it, but more meta questions like:

"What makes you happiest about our relationship?"
"What makes you least happy?"
"What is one thing you could change about what we're doing if you could?"
"What's something new we could experience together?"

Like your girlfriend, he's relatively less experienced than I am relationship-wise, and I have felt a certain responsibility about setting the tone and supporting him in being comfortable expressing what he needs (which, oddly as challenging for FJs apparently as it is for us, it would seem, but for different reasons).

I know you know that for ENTJs, the push-pulls there because getting lost in it is frightening, especially when the feelings hit too hard. For women, it's doubly so, because there's this fear that long-term commitment can equate to lost autonomy. It can be super overwhelming. The two most important things you can offer an ENTJ woman are the feeling that she is safe and the reassurance that she's not alone either in the relationship OR in whatever aspirations she might have for herself. It's a lot easier when you can remember to look at the other person as a genuine partner as opposed to someone to be managed.
 

DiscoBiscuit

Meat Tornado
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
14,794
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8w9
I can relate to that. I started dating an INFJ guy earlier this yea, and things evolved very quickly for us. He's libertarian by way of a family who are devout Catholics and Tea Party members. Politics are pretty much the only thing we've really fought about. Things like that matter and they don't. Values-wise we're both very closely aligned, but how we feel those things ought to translate policy-wise don't always mesh up. I don't know what it will mean for us, but it hasn't made me feel any differently about wanting to have a future with him. There's been some compromises on both ends, but it's happened in a way that feels healthy and exciting rather than "giving something up".

Her family is liberal, but she is a moderate conservative with liberal cultural leanings, although I'm bringing her around. She was surprisingly (ok exceptionally) good the first time she shot my revolver. But she's a (not too strict) vegan, into minimalism and a host of other culturally liberal things, that I am decidedly not very into. She studied gender issues in her public policy major at Duke as well as poverty stuff. It has been rough, I'm going to some food commune thing with her to sort vegetables in a week or two that I initially shot down. I had to realize that I was being dismissive of her passions and can't do that. I don't think I'll ever bring her around to giving a shit about physics, but I'll definitely try. I'm going to get her into college football this season. Luckily we both love politics, and discussing global issues. We've had hours and hours of fascinating conversations about goings on all over the world. She is actually very opposed to both Hillary and Bernie. She got me to start listening to NPR sometimes. She doesn't mind Hannity sometimes, although I'm much less into Hannity than she is into NPR. We expand each other's horizons in ways I could have never imagined before I met her.



An ENFP girlfriend of mine whom I've known since I was like 8 is really savvy with relationship stuff, and I learned a lot watching her navigate her relationship with her INTP SO (now fiance). One of the things she does that I've tried with the INFJ to pretty good effect has been setting side time to have conversations about the relationship itself. Not specific issues within it, but more meta questions like:

"What makes you happiest about our relationship?"
"What makes you least happy?"
"What is one thing you could change about what we're doing if you could?"
"What's something new we could experience together?"

Like your girlfriend, he's relatively less experienced than I am relationship-wise, and I have felt a certain responsibility about setting the tone and supporting him in being comfortable expressing what he needs (which, oddly as challenging for FJs apparently as it is for us, it would seem, but for different reasons).

I know you know that for ENTJs, the push-pulls there because getting lost in it is frightening, especially when the feelings hit too hard. For women, it's doubly so, because there's this fear that long-term commitment can equate to lost autonomy. It can be super overwhelming. The two most important things you can offer an ENTJ woman are the feeling that she is safe and the reassurance that she's not alone either in the relationship OR in whatever aspirations she might have for herself. It's a lot easier when you can remember to look at the other person as a genuine partner as opposed to someone to be managed.

We had a huge fight about this, where I basically just had to say, look babe I will support you no matter where you go and what you do with your life if that means I have to move one day so be it. She felt constrained by the relationship until we got all the way down to the root of the issue. Which is funny because now that she's comfortable, and things have stabled out for me job wise (just in the last few days) she actually started bringing up what kind of rings she likes. When earlier this winter she had gotten all kinds of freaked out when I began to hint that I was going to ask her to marry me sometime this year. But now I'm content to wait for a while.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
As a tall woman (not even THAT tall-- 5'9" I can say that for me, this is because we grow up with society sending us the message that women are supposed to be small, and definitely smaller than men. As a result, it feels awkward as a woman to be taller than your man. And lots of guys are uncomfortable with it, too. I had a boyfriend in high school who was an inch or so shorter than me, and he was super jealous because of it.

Oh Aquarelle, society sends you a message and you leap to do as you are told.

You could of course send society a message back, or simply laugh at the message. But I guess liberating yourself from social messages is out of the question.

Are there any social messages you reject, because this might be a good place to start.

Of course knowing how susceptible you are to social messages, you would be an advertiser's dream.

You can rely on Aquarelle, they say, All you have to do is send her a message.
 

Evo

Unapologetic being
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
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3,160
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XNTJ
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1w9
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sp/sx
Face> way he uses his dick> way he uses his face> big shoulders> big dick> height, the end.
 

Aquarelle

Starcrossed Seafarer
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
3,144
MBTI Type
INFJ
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4w5
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so/sp
Oh Aquarelle, society sends you a message and you leap to do as you are told.

You could of course send society a message back, or simply laugh at the message. But I guess liberating yourself from social messages is out of the question.

Are there any social messages you reject, because this might be a good place to start.

Of course knowing how susceptible you are to social messages, you would be an advertiser's dream.

You can rely on Aquarelle, they say, All you have to do is send her a message.

There are many I reject. There are many things society says I should/shouldn't do, about which I give zero fucks. I don't wear makeup. I don't wear the latest fashions. I don't have a "stylish" haircut. Etc. But my height was a source of self-consciousness growing up, and I've never been able to fully shake it.
 

Mole

Permabanned
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
20,284
There are many I reject. There are many things society says I should/shouldn't do, about which I give zero fucks. I don't wear makeup. I don't wear the latest fashions. I don't have a "stylish" haircut. Etc. But my height was a source of self-consciousness growing up, and I've never been able to fully shake it.

There are many messages you reject. You don't wear makeup. You don't wear the latest fashions. You don't have a stylish haircut. But you were self conscious growing up about your height and you still feel a little self conscious today. You do seem to be person with your own mind. Welcome back.
 

morganelise48

New member
Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
63
MBTI Type
INFJ
Enneagram
5w4
That's so true. I'm not sure in thr stats there, but it almost symbolizes power. Being broad shows the largess of your body, to a much greater and extent than a penis and even height.

It certainly isn't the first thing I notice about a guy though haha. At least not consciously.
 

Dr Mobius

Biting Shards
Joined
Jul 13, 2010
Messages
872
MBTI Type
ENTP
Enneagram
7w8
Instinctual Variant
sp/sx
as a 4'5, triangle-shaped, troll-faced, microphallus haver it seems i am still fucked.

- - - Updated - - -

or not i suppose.

I was going to post something encouraging until I realised that as Mr Popular you probably have a dozen reps telling you otherwise. Isn't it amazing how much personality alters the way we view people?


It's interesting, but it has some odd characteristics. So they're testing height, hip to shoulder ratio, and flaccid penis length/girth. 343 picture combinations, and measuring for latency. The summation is that while none are independent shoulder to hip ratio is clearly vastly more important for instant visual attraction. I don't find there argument for the low latency genitalia particularly convincing. And the insignificance of height is very unusual......... until I saw the sample of the images they used. I am curious as to who thought that measuring sexual attraction off of creepy baby headed digital mannequins was a good idea. For aesthetic proportional sensibilities it could be useful, but sexual attraction? They seem more in the nightmare inducing category.

I do often wonder at the validity of trying to create an objective standard for human sexuality (Particularly through the lens of evolutionary psychology.); it's just so extraordinarily fluid and subjective. I mean at this very moment somewhere in the world two people in a Big Bird and Cookie Monster costume are banging each other senseless. Sesame Street Orgies how are you suppose to explain that? Human sexuality a glorious absurd clusterfuck.
 

boomslang

friendly and accessible
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
203
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I'm 3'4" and I only date girls over 7' that can damage the hull of a warship with their jawbone.
 

Tdurden

New member
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
1
Looks of attraction are extremely difficult to judge. Eyes c, hair c, hair type quality, facial build, skin, height, bmi, muscular in various areas. Also most women once you hit a certain threshold, the value of the looks goes down drastically (obv its a bonus)compared to similarities, personality which is even more complex, wealth. Then once you get deeper into the crazy pie charts im sure women looking for ltr/husband/booty call/short term flings and or if they want children(ltr/husbands)
 

Hellena Handbasket

Daywalker
Joined
Apr 11, 2018
Messages
1,152
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INFJ
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666
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sx/sp
Shoulders are nice but I always noticed hands and lips on a man.
And then overall energy and vibe.
 

rav3n

.
Joined
Aug 6, 2010
Messages
11,655
As long as shoulders are broader than hips which would fit the majority of males who aren't seniors, it doesn't bother me. I'm not really attracted to pumped up or thick men, preferring lean body types even to the degree of being considered skinny. I do prefer men who are taller than me but that doesn't take much since I'm short.

But first priority is brains, that of fluid intelligence bracketed by logical consistency and intellectual honesty. With that combination, abstraction, speculation and theorizing are beyond fun!
 

Yuurei

Noncompliant
Joined
Sep 29, 2016
Messages
4,506
MBTI Type
ENTJ
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8w7
You mean like those waifey 80's anime dudes with a 5ft shoulders-span and a 20in waist? *Gag* no thanks.

Seriously, that's an exaggeration but I find and large shoulder-tiny waist/legs ratio absolutely unappealing. I like rectangles.
 

Peter Deadpan

phallus impudicus
Joined
Dec 14, 2016
Messages
8,882
I liked different things about each of my partners, and sometimes something really random, like the hair on one guy's legs or a nose or even stretchmarks once.
 

j.c.t.

New member
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
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INFJ
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I've found that height preferences often stem from insecurities about ones own height. Taller-than-average women tend to prefer taller-than-average men and vice versa. Being from a country where the average height is very high, I've never in my entire life seen a shorter man with a taller woman here. I did see that many times when I was in Scotland though, which is something I found to be rather interesting. It makes sense that broader shoulders are considered more attractive though (from a macro perspective), as broadness/muscle mass is "better protection" than height. But it's not necessarily protection itself that's valued (it's become quite irrelevant in our peaceful, modern world), but rather the feeling of protection. It's a remnant from the past, an instinct that may die off with time.

 

j.c.t.

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You mean like those waifey 80's anime dudes with a 5ft shoulders-span and a 20in waist? *Gag* no thanks.

Seriously, that's an exaggeration but I find and large shoulder-tiny waist/legs ratio absolutely unappealing. I like rectangles.
741b193b0886098103eb62e874837d80


Well hello there
 

Cellmold

Wake, See, Sing, Dance
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
6,266
Slave as I am to society's whims, I ordered my shoulder enlarger yesterday.

To go right along with my "special" pump. How could I possibly still be single?
 
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