A few months ago, while my older brother was in rehab, it was discovered that his liver and kidneys were failing due to his alcohol consumption. The doctor told my family he had 2 weeks to live, but then his condition improved and his levels became normal again. Since then, my brother has continued to drink and has been hospitalized multiple times because of it. I believe he has been intentionally trying to kill himself, so I've been trying to make him feel more useful by asking him to do little favors. I would also do activities with him to show him that his presence is valued, I would help him look for jobs, etc. However, last night he returned to the hospital because he was having trouble breathing. His cirrhosis is very bad, and he is bleeding internally, but they don't know where from. He was told he doesn't have much longer to live. I feel I might not have been consistent enough in verbally expressing my appreciation or in just engaging him in conversations, and my youngest siblings have called him a drunk to his face and I did not defend him (not his actions). I believe this is part of the reason why he hasn't stopped drinking. I have not lost faith in my brother, but I also want to be realistic. Do you think if I donate part of my liver to him and give him more encouragement that he will stop? I don't feel right taking away his alcohol because he makes his own choices after all, and he will find a way to get it anyway, but he knows how our family feels about it, and I will refuse to drive him home if he buys alcohol. I want him to have the liver, but I don't know if I trust him with it. What would you do? Is there hope for my brother? He is 29.
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Should I donate part of my liver to my brother?
- Thread starter Midoughni
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Totenkindly
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Well, the thing is, in the end, he is your brother and you need to live with whatever decision you make... So this is all just advice, but in the end it's really up to you and what you are willing to live with.
My father was an alcoholic all of his adulthood and (I thought) also trying to commit slow suicide for decades. he died about a year and a half ago, from liver damage and a heart attack, the autopsy attributed it all to alcohol abuse. Over the course of his life, he lost most of his relationships, he lost the only job he loved (in his 30's) and never got another like it, he spent a month in jail for 4 DUIs, and he lived in ill health that must have been completely miserable... and yet he continued to drink and insist he did not have a drinking problem and anyone who insisted otherwise was being judgmental.
I also spent a lot of time in my 20's and 30's believing I would help my father get better, and trying to figure out what I "could do" that would help him get over while not enabling him. In the end, nothing I did really made a difference.
Anyway, i get it.
This part was telling:
For me personally, if your brother truly wanted to live, and giving him part of your liver would truly allow him to take hold of this "second chance," then I of course would say, "Hey, go for it." But everything you describe about your brother suggests that he is not the one who wants him to live, it's his family that wants him to live. But unless he wants it, and is willing to change, it will fail, and you guys are just enabling him as far as I can see it from your description.
I also can tell how much you really love him and want him to get better, but you sound like you're shouldering the burden of giving him hope and keeping him alive to give him more chances... and the reality is that it's not your fault that he is drinking regardless of how you might have missed some opportunities to help him, it's HIS responsibility and his fault. He is making the choice, not you. You can't carry him through his life. Sadly, that means you might have to be willing to let him go, if only so he can stand on his own two feet. It's a tragedy, yes, but again his drinking is not your fault nor your responsibility to fix even if you want badly to keep him alive.
Like I said, you have to live with your choice(s) here. So you need to follow your conscience. But I don't think, since you asked the forum, that your giving your brother part of your liver (which is a major surgery for you, even if the liver might regrow and heal) will fix your brother. Until your brother makes the decision to face his drinking and chooses to LIVE (and live sober), he will likely just drink that gift away... it's just how addiction works. I hope at least that you are able to find some peace in realizing that in general your brother's situation is a result of his choices and issues, not yours, so you can choose to offer or not offer this to him based on what you want to do versus feeling like you have to.
My father was an alcoholic all of his adulthood and (I thought) also trying to commit slow suicide for decades. he died about a year and a half ago, from liver damage and a heart attack, the autopsy attributed it all to alcohol abuse. Over the course of his life, he lost most of his relationships, he lost the only job he loved (in his 30's) and never got another like it, he spent a month in jail for 4 DUIs, and he lived in ill health that must have been completely miserable... and yet he continued to drink and insist he did not have a drinking problem and anyone who insisted otherwise was being judgmental.
I also spent a lot of time in my 20's and 30's believing I would help my father get better, and trying to figure out what I "could do" that would help him get over while not enabling him. In the end, nothing I did really made a difference.
Anyway, i get it.
This part was telling:
For me personally, if your brother truly wanted to live, and giving him part of your liver would truly allow him to take hold of this "second chance," then I of course would say, "Hey, go for it." But everything you describe about your brother suggests that he is not the one who wants him to live, it's his family that wants him to live. But unless he wants it, and is willing to change, it will fail, and you guys are just enabling him as far as I can see it from your description.
I also can tell how much you really love him and want him to get better, but you sound like you're shouldering the burden of giving him hope and keeping him alive to give him more chances... and the reality is that it's not your fault that he is drinking regardless of how you might have missed some opportunities to help him, it's HIS responsibility and his fault. He is making the choice, not you. You can't carry him through his life. Sadly, that means you might have to be willing to let him go, if only so he can stand on his own two feet. It's a tragedy, yes, but again his drinking is not your fault nor your responsibility to fix even if you want badly to keep him alive.
Like I said, you have to live with your choice(s) here. So you need to follow your conscience. But I don't think, since you asked the forum, that your giving your brother part of your liver (which is a major surgery for you, even if the liver might regrow and heal) will fix your brother. Until your brother makes the decision to face his drinking and chooses to LIVE (and live sober), he will likely just drink that gift away... it's just how addiction works. I hope at least that you are able to find some peace in realizing that in general your brother's situation is a result of his choices and issues, not yours, so you can choose to offer or not offer this to him based on what you want to do versus feeling like you have to.
boomslang
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I'm sorry to hear, first of all.
I think the decision is basically that you give him part of your liver if you want him to live and then worry about the rest later.
People aren't perfect and alcoholism does go beyond trying to destroy yourself. That might be how it begins, but it becomes a full-blown addiction. Given the cirrhosis, it's pretty obvious that it's beyond the beginning stages.
Maybe get him to rehab too, if it's possible?
I think the decision is basically that you give him part of your liver if you want him to live and then worry about the rest later.
People aren't perfect and alcoholism does go beyond trying to destroy yourself. That might be how it begins, but it becomes a full-blown addiction. Given the cirrhosis, it's pretty obvious that it's beyond the beginning stages.
Maybe get him to rehab too, if it's possible?
Dr Mobius
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My thoughts on this are divided into three parts.
The first is the technical side of the equation. Have you discussed this with his doctor, been tested for compatibility? Is a liver transplant a viable option? You do have to be a certain level of health for surgery. Are his kidneys and other organs still functioning? Don't feel the need to actually answer any of this; I just can't tell how far along your thinking/actions are in the process. No need to put the cart in front of the horse so to speak.
The second point I was going to cover was the guilt, but [MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION] has done a spectacular job of covering that.
Lastly, and I'm probably reading to much into this. But it seems as though you haven't broached this subject with anyone IRL. Someone who is diagnosed with liver and kidney failure, and continues to drink really does have a death wish. I mean have you asked him if he wants it? It almost sounds as though your standing in front of a speeding freight train screaming at it to stop.
This is such a crappy situation to be in commiserations on that.
The first is the technical side of the equation. Have you discussed this with his doctor, been tested for compatibility? Is a liver transplant a viable option? You do have to be a certain level of health for surgery. Are his kidneys and other organs still functioning? Don't feel the need to actually answer any of this; I just can't tell how far along your thinking/actions are in the process. No need to put the cart in front of the horse so to speak.
The second point I was going to cover was the guilt, but [MENTION=7]Jennifer[/MENTION] has done a spectacular job of covering that.
Lastly, and I'm probably reading to much into this. But it seems as though you haven't broached this subject with anyone IRL. Someone who is diagnosed with liver and kidney failure, and continues to drink really does have a death wish. I mean have you asked him if he wants it? It almost sounds as though your standing in front of a speeding freight train screaming at it to stop.
This is such a crappy situation to be in commiserations on that.
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Ask him if he wants to live or not and remind him that if he wants to live, he cant continue drinking as it will kill him. If he doesent want to live and would just kill himself by drinking, then there is no point of donating, it would just make him suffer longer.
prplchknz
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maybe i dunno this up to you see if he's willing to go back to rehab, how long does he have to decide? say if he can sober for a year (or how ever long you think is reasonable) say you're willing to give part of your liver. I know that sounds shitty and stuff and yeah he might relapse right after you give it to him but who knows. I just think if he really wants it he'll do what it takes. But i don't know don't listen to me. but the thing is he'll have his part of up hold.or even if not rehab, i'm assuming it's bad enough that he needs to go to detox at least. just say stay sober for a year
Frosty
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This is a really tough situation, and unhelpful as it may sound, it is ultimately up to you. I am really sorry about that. I do think that your brother, if he has not realized what he is doing to himself yet, will need a big surge of something to knock him back into balance. It could come from you giving him part of your liver, it could come from something else, or maybe it never will. I think that you have already thought all of that out, so just go with what you feel is right.
KitchenFly
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Midoughni this is a tuff call, that type do you think he is ? Is he a counter phobic type?
If so I can not see him stoping drinking.
I would let it be known that hard my liver and one of my kiddies is there and that I am open to shearing them with you...(You Brother), but if you want it you have to do the work for it.
If he authentically shows signs of desiring to saving grace then I would proceed to take him to a professional team for treatment, have him tested for his enneagram type and instinct type and cognitive function type and MBTI type because he needs to understand his passion and instinctual variant and how he makes decisions.
One big question is who is going to pay for the bill it cost money unless you live in a country that will do the surgery for free.
If I had a brother in my life with his plight he would have to save grace and jump though those hoops to get one kidney that can not be replaced and 1/2 of my liver that can grow back.
Also you could look at the saving grace section for his type if you know it so as you can mirror to him what he needs to be aware of in order to move forward. (The Wisdom Of The Enneagram ) - authors Russ Hudson and Don Riso.
The what to do is a Tuff call, good luck with it all and I hope a resolution comes to surface and things get better.
If so I can not see him stoping drinking.
I would let it be known that hard my liver and one of my kiddies is there and that I am open to shearing them with you...(You Brother), but if you want it you have to do the work for it.
If he authentically shows signs of desiring to saving grace then I would proceed to take him to a professional team for treatment, have him tested for his enneagram type and instinct type and cognitive function type and MBTI type because he needs to understand his passion and instinctual variant and how he makes decisions.
One big question is who is going to pay for the bill it cost money unless you live in a country that will do the surgery for free.
If I had a brother in my life with his plight he would have to save grace and jump though those hoops to get one kidney that can not be replaced and 1/2 of my liver that can grow back.
Also you could look at the saving grace section for his type if you know it so as you can mirror to him what he needs to be aware of in order to move forward. (The Wisdom Of The Enneagram ) - authors Russ Hudson and Don Riso.
The what to do is a Tuff call, good luck with it all and I hope a resolution comes to surface and things get better.
I didn't mean to neglect everyone's responses. The fact that all of you cared enough to lend a bit of support was honestly touching to me. It was also really helpful for me to look at the situation from your various perspectives, as I was beginning to feel stuck in my own. I feel that I have more clarity now, as well as more to think about.
I think he is an ISFP. As far as Enneagram, there are times when he comes across as a CP 6, but I am more inclined to believe this is his disintegration point and that he is a 9w8 so/sx.
kyuuei
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I think you really need to focus on your own feelings of guilt. It sounds like the rest of your family lacks a lot of the compassion you have for him. And unfortunately, especially for people who are already rock bottom, they respond quicker and more passionately to negativity. Positive attitudes are like gasoline.. it can create an awesome fire, but without someone actively sparking it, nothing will really happen. Negativity though? Tar sticks to everything and is a pain in the ass to clean off. (Ironically enough, gas cleans off tar.)
Your brother has his own issues. He clearly has problems he is still running frantically away from, and things he cannot face even in the face of death itself. The reality is he did this to himself, but that doesn't make him a bad person alone, and definitely does not completely condemn him from love and support. People have the free will to condemn themselves to a slow death in such ways like this. Supporting him as a person who loves him, and respecting his however misguided decisions without judgment can be more healing than the liver itself. Addiction is hard.. and not everyone is going to have the strength to defeat it.
I cannot tell you where to go with this. But I can tell you, if I were in your shoes, I'd be there at his side, and support him, and talk to him and spend as much time as I could.. but I would not give him a part of my body. He doesn't seem like he's actively begging for it, asking deeply for a third chance, that he's going to totally turn around.. and his history shows that he'll live long enough with my precious livery goodness to drink another day. The horrid, practical reality is that I'M not condemning my brother to death by not giving him my liver. His hands were not at gun point. I didn't steal anything life saving from him. And... Yeah, maybe I didn't stand up to everyone just then in front of him. But I can fix that. I can stand up for him right now. I can tell people daring to walk in that if they don't have nice things to say they can gtfo. I'd try to be grateful for the time I got with him.. versus regretful for things I failed to do like push back at family members angry. And having a bit of, unfortunately callous, medical common sense is not a part of that failure. That's just the way the world goes.
People react all sorts of ways.. and frequently revert to childish selfish emotions when they cannot truly handle what's happening around them. Yelling at a man who know he's dying calling him a drunk doesn't create anything new. No new revelations there. He isn't going, "WHAT?! OMG! You're right! I drink too much omg omg omg..." No, they aren't there to intervene with it--but to vent their fears of losing him, their anger at the preventable aspects of this condition, and the mixture of fear and anger at the unknown.. because no one who's never been addicted to something can ever truly understand addiction. There is little in the way of empathy there. You need to really walk those shoes to get it. And no one's gonna volunteer for that information. So, knowing all of that.. I'd just push back. Show people how childish they're being right then. How selfish it is to focus on their own anger in the face of another man dying. They can be angry in their own home, it'd make no difference where. They don't need to take it out on him there when he's already kicked down on the ground.
And it's never too late to say sorry, to push back, and to say the important things.
Your brother has his own issues. He clearly has problems he is still running frantically away from, and things he cannot face even in the face of death itself. The reality is he did this to himself, but that doesn't make him a bad person alone, and definitely does not completely condemn him from love and support. People have the free will to condemn themselves to a slow death in such ways like this. Supporting him as a person who loves him, and respecting his however misguided decisions without judgment can be more healing than the liver itself. Addiction is hard.. and not everyone is going to have the strength to defeat it.
I cannot tell you where to go with this. But I can tell you, if I were in your shoes, I'd be there at his side, and support him, and talk to him and spend as much time as I could.. but I would not give him a part of my body. He doesn't seem like he's actively begging for it, asking deeply for a third chance, that he's going to totally turn around.. and his history shows that he'll live long enough with my precious livery goodness to drink another day. The horrid, practical reality is that I'M not condemning my brother to death by not giving him my liver. His hands were not at gun point. I didn't steal anything life saving from him. And... Yeah, maybe I didn't stand up to everyone just then in front of him. But I can fix that. I can stand up for him right now. I can tell people daring to walk in that if they don't have nice things to say they can gtfo. I'd try to be grateful for the time I got with him.. versus regretful for things I failed to do like push back at family members angry. And having a bit of, unfortunately callous, medical common sense is not a part of that failure. That's just the way the world goes.
People react all sorts of ways.. and frequently revert to childish selfish emotions when they cannot truly handle what's happening around them. Yelling at a man who know he's dying calling him a drunk doesn't create anything new. No new revelations there. He isn't going, "WHAT?! OMG! You're right! I drink too much omg omg omg..." No, they aren't there to intervene with it--but to vent their fears of losing him, their anger at the preventable aspects of this condition, and the mixture of fear and anger at the unknown.. because no one who's never been addicted to something can ever truly understand addiction. There is little in the way of empathy there. You need to really walk those shoes to get it. And no one's gonna volunteer for that information. So, knowing all of that.. I'd just push back. Show people how childish they're being right then. How selfish it is to focus on their own anger in the face of another man dying. They can be angry in their own home, it'd make no difference where. They don't need to take it out on him there when he's already kicked down on the ground.
And it's never too late to say sorry, to push back, and to say the important things.
/DG/
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[MENTION=24076]Midoughni[/MENTION] - Looks like I'm going against the grain here, but I think that if you are in a position where you are able to donate (can take time off work, are compatible, etc.), then you should do it. A liver donation isn't like a kidney donation. Your liver will regrow itself. There will be no lasting effects on yourself.
It might provide him with a great second chance and it might not...but I don't think that matters at this point.
But again, this is all up to you. I'm not trying to force you into anything...just providing a different opinion.
It might provide him with a great second chance and it might not...but I don't think that matters at this point.
But again, this is all up to you. I'm not trying to force you into anything...just providing a different opinion.
Yeah, it's possible that I was overestimating the impact it would have on my body, but the risks associated with any major surgery terrify me alone. Although the liver regenerates, I read that it does not reach its original size or recreate the exact structure of the organ, so I was concerned that it might decrease my life expectancy because it would function less efficiently or become prone to potentially life-threatening complications during the healing process or in the long-term.
/DG/
silentigata ano (profile)
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Right, it being a major surgery is definitely a huge risk. However, if you're young and healthy, I can't imagine there being any issues. As for liver regeneration, all I know is that you need at least 1/4 of your liver for it to regenerate fully...and it will do so fairly quickly. According to Wikipedia, the shape of the liver is not replaced, just the mass...is this what you're maybe thinking of?
At any rate, I think it's best that you have a long talk with a doctor about this. Ask them tons of questions! I'm pretty sure no one here is a physician and thus can't really talk too much about the medical aspect of all this.
But...if it helps you at all, the leading causes of death (in US, where I live) are not all that liver related.
FastStats - Leading Causes of Death
kyuuei
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Actually these are super true and totally valid points.
I guess I'm coming at it from the aspect that he's literally trying to kill himself, and the process of both people having major surgery to prolong his drinking days a couple years seems fairly fruitless.
There is definitely the possibility that this act of kindness can spark something in him, and maybe he would change. It is just as likely also that he could: want to change but cant, want to change but not enough to change, would feel indifferent about this act of kindness, would not be grateful for this act of kindness, or any mixture of the above.
The surgery itself I don't think will be awful. Scary, sure, it always is.. but it's okay. Ask your doctor and he'll provide everything you need.
No one can make a decision like this but you.
