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Creating upper body strength from pretty much nothing

EJCC

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I can't even begin to respond to all of these, but thanks to everyone for all your input!

The one question I have, off the top of my head: [MENTION=15315]UniqueMixture[/MENTION], you said that you want rest days between workouts, but I had always heard that you only wanted rest days if you were thinking of working out the same parts of your body each day. As opposed to lower body one day, upper body the next day. ([MENTION=15246]SD45T-2[/MENTION] reinforced my thinking with a post to that effect.) So UniqueMixture I was wondering if you could elaborate on that a little?
 

Lark

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One of the best threads in this part of the forum.

I love those movie clips, I've found others for how to use other machines in my gym, about as good, if not better than the staff who work there. Cheers.
 

Aquarelle

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Really? Weights before cardio? This is interesting.

I believe the rationale is that since you burn sugars before fat, and cardio is designed to burn fat, you want to do weights first to burn your sugars off first so that your cardio can be devoted to burning fat. I've only learned this recently and have tried it once... I'm more comfortable doing cardio first so it's a switch.
 

Lark

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I believe the rationale is that since you burn sugars before fat, and cardio is designed to burn fat, you want to do weights first to burn your sugars off first so that your cardio can be devoted to burning fat. I've only learned this recently and have tried it once... I'm more comfortable doing cardio first so it's a switch.

Is it using weights which are difficult but which you can do plenty of reps with? Its more of a cardio lifting then I think, when I lift I try to lift just outside of what I can lift with the view that the last three before I cant lift at all do the "good" in terms of building muscle.
 

wolfy

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Really? Weights before cardio? This is interesting.

Training is usually sequenced skill work, speed work, strength work, endurance work. It is better to do cardio in a depleted state as the goal is burning body fat and you'll burn a bigger percentage easier when energy depleted.
 
A

Anew Leaf

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I really like doing the plank as it works your entire core.

I tend to do a routine that works out all major areas together. I do 3 reps of that routine which is around an hour. Then the next day I either do nothing or I do cardio. Then I do weights again the day after that. You want to be making wonderful tiny tears in your muscles that get repaired in the time off, so you can go back and tear them up again.

It's strange how this actually works. :D

I would like to summon [MENTION=6109]Halla74[/MENTION] since we all know he is the master of this. :)
 

Lark

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Training is usually sequenced skill work, speed work, strength work, endurance work. It is better to do cardio in a depleted state as the goal is burning body fat and you'll burn a bigger percentage easier when energy depleted.

Where did you learn this stuff?
 

EJCC

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Since I'm trying to limit my TypeC time, I don't really have enough time to go through this whole thread still, but nonetheless I can already tell that this thread is becoming a great resource. Some of the posts -- especially on the first page -- were a little over my head, but they could be a next step once I figure out how all this stuff works.

Off the top of my head, two people I wanted to respond to. Firstly:
Push ups off the knees are still effective, you're only reducing the load by changing leverage. I don't understand what your limits are in terms of equipment and time. Tell me that.
I've got a full university gym at my disposal, designed to serve the student body plus all our various sports teams, so I'm not really limited in terms of weights/equipment. Time-wise, I think I've got two mornings a week, one hour each morning. So my schedule would be running Monday Wednesday Friday, gym Tuesday Thursday. Maybe also gym on Sunday, depending on how intensely I want to go about this.

But anyway, one effective trick is to lower slowly to build up strength, increase reps over time and then try moving to the next level.
Amateur question: how can you tell when you're ready to increase reps? Just when they get easier and you get the vibe that you could do more if you wanted? I don't want to just do the same number of reps every day and stagnate.

Secondly: [MENTION=5111]lauranna[/MENTION], you're right that my being an ESTJ will make all of this easier. :) And your suggestion of writing everything down was a VERY good one. Nice way to hold me accountable.


EDIT: Two other questions for everyone.
1) What are your recommended upper-body stretches, for before and after lifting?
2) When you're at the gym, how much time do you allot yourself between machines? Do you pretty much run from machine to machine? Presumably you try to complete your whole routine in a set amount of time -- or at least, you'd make sure your rest/stretch breaks were a set amount of time -- but I don't know how that would work, exactly.
 

wolfy

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Amateur question: how can you tell when you're ready to increase reps? Just when they get easier and you get the vibe that you could do more if you wanted? I don't want to just do the same number of reps every day and stagnate.

Say if you decide to do 12 reps for 2 sets. You choose a weight you can do 13 or 14 times. It isn't your max but fairly hard, then over time you increase the reps, say a rep more each workout. Then when you get to 15 for 2 you increase the weight and move back to 12. You have to play it by ear a bit as well.

Also, I'd do weights three times a week, even if you needed to drop running, since upper body is the focus. Have a weights program?
 

lauranna

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Every time you do the session aim to do one extra rep on each exercise. As wolfy says after a week or two you will make the weight heavier and go back to the original reps then work up by one each session.

Don't stretch before weights. Stretching the muscle doesn't help with lifting.

Move on to a different exercise straight away. When between sets on same exercise time your rest. This is an exact science. A good starting programme would be 3 sets of 8-12 reps with one minute rest in between sets. If you need a stopwatch use one.

And write it all down!
 

EJCC

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Thanks [MENTION=5111]lauranna[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4515]wolfy[/MENTION] for the tips!

Do you guys know of any online resources that would help for this? i.e. for making a good upper-body gym plan for each day you're there? I feel like there are so many factors in that -- e.g. what order do you use the machines in? do you vary from weights to machines and back?

Also: I think I might be an ectomorph, if that makes a difference. I'm not figuring that based on my current weight, but based on the fact that:
1) Small changes in lifestyle and diet can make me lose weight pretty quickly, but it's hard for me to gain that weight back (and that tendency is why I've started worrying about losing my curves because of this lifestyle change);
2) My parents were both pretty lanky for most of their lives (and my dad has since gained most of his weight in his torso, so his limbs are still thin-ish);
3) I did the trick with grabbing your wrist, and my thumb can overlap my third finger by at least half an inch; and
4) I was generally pretty tall and lanky, growing up.

I definitely wouldn't test as an ectomorph now -- my shape would be best described as "curvy" and I have a small-ish waist -- but if my rationale seems reasonable, then that might affect how I should be working out. More protein, maybe, so I can get fitter without losing my figure?
 

lauranna

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Thanks [MENTION=5111]lauranna[/MENTION] and [MENTION=4515]wolfy[/MENTION] for the tips!

Do you guys know of any online resources that would help for this? i.e. for making a good upper-body gym plan for each day you're there? I feel like there are so many factors in that -- e.g. what order do you use the machines in? do you vary from weights to machines and back?

Also: I think I might be an ectomorph, if that makes a difference. I'm not figuring that based on my current weight, but based on the fact that:
1) Small changes in lifestyle and diet can make me lose weight pretty quickly, but it's hard for me to gain that weight back (and that tendency is why I've started worrying about losing my curves because of this lifestyle change);
2) My parents were both pretty lanky for most of their lives (and my dad has since gained most of his weight in his torso, so his limbs are still thin-ish);
3) I did the trick with grabbing your wrist, and my thumb can overlap my third finger by at least half an inch; and
4) I was generally pretty tall and lanky, growing up.

I definitely wouldn't test as an ectomorph now -- my shape would be best described as "curvy" and I have a small-ish waist -- but if my rationale seems reasonable, then that might affect how I should be working out. More protein, maybe, so I can get fitter without losing my figure?

For a basic upper body starter weights plan, I would suggest:

Shoulder press

Lat pull down

Bench press

Bent over row

3 sets of 8-12 reps of each. Minute rest inbetween sets.
[MENTION=4515]wolfy[/MENTION] may have more knowledge on this as I think he is a personal trainer? So he may be able to advise a better programme?

That will work the major muscle groups in the upper body without having to do loads of isolated muscle exercises. I prefer free weights as you work more muscles in one go.

As for you thinking you are an ectomorph you may find it hard to build muscle, so up your protein intake. (Most importantly take some form of protein immediately after doing weights withing 20 mins of finishing. Protein shake is the easiest to take on the go but any form of protein will do.)

Anyway, good luck
 

Silence

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I've never been athletic. I manage to stay at a healthy weight by eating well and leading a lifestyle that involves lots of walking. I tried running, once, and I went about it completely the wrong way, so I had no fun and gave up after a few months. But as of the day after tomorrow, I'm going to try again, Monday/Wednesday/Friday mornings, with my roommate. (I bought running shorts and everything!)

This anticipated change in lifestyle got me thinking about my lack of upper body strength, since my day-to-day physical activity is lower body only. I figure, since I'm making this big change in terms of lower body strength and aerobic exercise, I might as well fix this other problem too. (Maybe I could go to the gym on Tuesday and Thursday mornings and pump some iron.)

So... if you have absolutely zero upper body strength, how do you go about trying to create it? I can't do real push-ups (only girl ones), and I'm pretty horrible at sit-ups too. I also have extremely limited knowledge of gym equipment, and -- most importantly -- how to use it over time, and how to check your progress with weights etc. Again, I'm essentially starting from nothing, so I have no gym experience, and, frankly, no idea what it feels like to have a fit upper body.

You seem like a person that could use the pyramid push-up routine
By the way, as my track coach always said, there's no such thing as a girl's push-up. There are sissy push-ups and real push-ups.

Pyramid push-up's work for anyone, but keep in mind that working out involves WORK. It's not easy. But the rewards of working out in the long run are worth it.
To do pyramid push-ups you do one push-up, then you get out of push-up position and breath deeply in and out once.
Then you do two push-ups, get out of position [usually sitting down or something] and breath deeply in and out twice.
I'm sure you get the idea at this point. Keep upping the number until you get to set that's very difficult to do [personally that's 15 for me as of now]. This Set isn't impossible, you have to keep a good mindset of this last difficult set. Breath out while you're pushing up [always breath out while you're doing the lifting, it helps a lot. Breath in while you're going down]. Push as hard as you can and will yourself through it. If you don't make it past whatever number is giving you a hard time, it's cool. But you have to try as hard as you can so you're working your muscles.

Now let's say you attempted 7 push-ups on your last set and only accomplished 6. Well it's time to take a 3 min. break. Do some crunches during this time. 30 with your knee's in front of you, 30 with your knees on the left and 30 on the right. For crunches you don't have to go all the way up [you shouldn't actually].

Okay, so you're break's done and the highest set you accomplished was 6, but you failed at 7. So start at 6, do 6 push-ups, breath deeply in and out 6 times while not in push-up position. then 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 [if the last one is too easy for you just keep doing more and more till you can't do anymore]

Take a 3min break [more crunches].
Now do all of this over again two more times.

Once every other day and you'll be in good shape since the day of not working out gives your muscles time to build up.


Running...
Well, you said you aren't so athletic.
Stretching is VERY VERY VERY important. Don't forget stretching. You ever see those people who bounce when they stretch? Yeah, they're doing it wrong. You can tear a muscle this way. Don't bounce when you stretch. First you're gonna run a light jog to warm up [basically till you start to sweat is ideal for a warm up, and sweat pants help you get to this point faster]. Now that you're all warmed up it's time for a stretch.
Attempt to touch your toes, don't bend at the knees ten sec's for all stretches btw
Cross your legs and touch your toes.
Switch feet with the cross stretch and do it again [should feel it in the calfs]
spread your legs and touch your right foot with your left hand and vice versa [helps stretch your back as well as legs]
now go down the middle while still spread
Grab your foot from behind you and stretch out your thigh, alternate and grab other foot.
put a foot on something about waist height and lean forward for a stretch, alternate feet

pull your arm across your chest, then other arm.
I'm getting a little tired posting all these stretches, look up stretches to do before running for all the ground stretches that go with it.

Well, when you're done stretching there's a few warm ups to do as well to make you loose enough to run and not feel like shit the next day.
high knees [bring your knees as high as you can while doing a light jog]
Butt kickers [try to kick your ass with your heel while doing a light job]
high skips [basically pretending to be mario while skipping with a high jump for your skips]


Now, you should be good for a run.
Form is important cause it conserves energy and works the muscles you want to have worked [basically it's a way to optimize your body into using as many muscles as you can and go in a straight line without wasting energy on side to side motion, running's for going straight not to the left of right].

When your left leg goes forward, your right arm goes with it as a counter balance while the right leg is going back and left arm counter balances it. opposite arm with opposite legs. 90 degree angles for your elbow at all times. When you pump your arm it should look like a cowboy doing a quick draw [your hand's gotta swing by your hip if it's at that 90 degree angle]. KEEP YOUR ARMS MOVING STRAIGHT!!!! KEEP THEM STRAIGHT!! Side to side movement is sloppy form and waste your energy. [watch olympic runners, or play metroid and look at how Samus runs, that's perfect form].

Bring your knees up. Keeping your arms straight and bringing the knee's up will be a pain in the ass at first but once you get used to it you'll notice it's more efficient for running or jogging.
Breath in your nose and out your mouth. NEVER BREATH IN YOUR MOUTH!!! you may really really want to, but don't do it. The nose has a filter on it that the mouth doesn't have when it comes to air intake.

Whatever distance you decide to run, when you're down don't sit down. Walk for about a mile, then stretch for a cool down stretch. Then get in your car or whatever and sit down.



Also try to do 30 push-ups every day. 30 in a row that is. You can do 1 push-up right now I guarantee it. Which means tomorrow you can do two. and 30 days from now you can do 30.
 
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