Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead - Documentary of Awesomeness

[Anew Leaf]

I have friends that employ their own juice fast habitually for a long weekend every 3-6 months just to keep their body on track. They said it helps maintain their weight loss (both having been very overweight at one point in their lives) and keeps them feeling "fresh". I've been implored to give it a shot. I'm thinking of trying a mini juice fast to see how I feel before taking on any big challenges.

This sounds like a great idea, iwakar! I have been doing mine for the past 9 days and I feel great. I have loads of energy and I feel lighter/not sluggish.

Only one more day to go for me. I am doing a mini one of 10 days.

 

[Tallulah]

This sounds like a great idea, iwakar! I have been doing mine for the past 9 days and I feel great. I have loads of energy and I feel lighter/not sluggish.

Only one more day to go for me. I am doing a mini one of 10 days.

We need details!

 

[Randomnity]

I see what you are saying, and there is definitely truth in all of this.

The beauty of juicing is that it breaks the food down in a manner that we can't accomplish via chewing or digesting. The nutrients are easier for the body to absorb, and you get more of them. I was very surprised when I was researching the art and science of juicing to discover how different the nutrient content is in eating a whole tomato versus eating the juice of a tomato versus having it blended down.

Assuming that is actually scientifically proven for the time being, is there a measured benefit to "more nutrients" past a certain point? I mean, if you're eating a ton of varied, whole fruits and vegetables every day, I find it very unlikely that you're lacking any nutrients. I'd imagine you'd be eating much more than the (admittedly low) minumum requirements. I'm sceptical that even doubling that would have any real impact.

For example most (non-fat soluble) vitamins are just released in the urine if you eat too many, and the ones that aren't are generally harmful in extremely high doses...

 

[Anew Leaf]

Assuming that is actually scientifically proven for the time being, is there a measured benefit to "more nutrients" past a certain point? I mean, if you're eating a ton of varied, whole fruits and vegetables every day, I find it very unlikely that you're lacking any nutrients. I'd imagine you'd be eating much more than the (admittedly low) minumum requirements. I'm sceptical that even doubling that would have any real impact.

For example most (non-fat soluble) vitamins are just released in the urine if you eat too many, and the ones that aren't are generally harmful in extremely high doses...

Well, if you have been eating junk food for years, you are overdue for having MORE than enough nutrients. You never absorb 100% of what you eat, so having more than enough nutrients ensures that you will be getting everything you need over all of the foods. Versus, if you break down exactly what you need to eat and only eat that... you are still lacking a percentage of what you consume.

In regards more specifically to what you are quoting there from me, it is easier for the body to absorb nutrients if they are in smaller forms. For example, twigs and grass have a lot of fiber in them, but your body can't break them down so they just pass through the system were you to eat them. The same is true if you eat flax seeds whole. Yeah, you can chew them a bit and break them down that way, but the odds are pretty high that they will pass relatively undisturbed into the toilet. Grind up the flax seed into a finer powder form, and your body has a better chance of actually getting the nutrients from it.

Does this make sense? I am sort of rushed posting at work trying to avoid some customers who are driving me insane.

 

[Anew Leaf]

We need details!

My new Ice Drops and Plum Vision blog has some details. I will write up a more detailed wrap up post tomorrow when the 10 days are up.

 

[Randomnity]

Well, if you have been eating junk food for years, you are overdue for having MORE than enough nutrients. You never absorb 100% of what you eat, so having more than enough nutrients ensures that you will be getting everything you need over all of the foods. Versus, if you break down exactly what you need to eat and only eat that... you are still lacking a percentage of what you consume.

In regards more specifically to what you are quoting there from me, it is easier for the body to absorb nutrients if they are in smaller forms. For example, twigs and grass have a lot of fiber in them, but your body can't break them down so they just pass through the system were you to eat them. The same is true if you eat flax seeds whole. Yeah, you can chew them a bit and break them down that way, but the odds are pretty high that they will pass relatively undisturbed into the toilet. Grind up the flax seed into a finer powder form, and your body has a better chance of actually getting the nutrients from it.

Does this make sense? I am sort of rushed posting at work trying to avoid some customers who are driving me insane.

My point was more that if you eat the same number of fruits and veg whole as you are juiced, you have WAY more nutrients than "if you break down exactly what you need to eat and only eat that", let alone a diet full of junk food etc (and even that has some nutrients). If you're eating mostly fruits and vegetables regardless of preparation you're getting tons of vitamins and so on - not convinced there's any benefit to having 5000% of the recommended level rather than 4000%. With whole veg you'd also feel a lot more full, won't have as much of a sugar spike, and it'd be way more tasty.

There are also some fruits and vegetables that are counterintuitively more nutritious when cooked.

 

[Anew Leaf]

My point was more that if you eat the same number of fruits and veg whole as you are juiced, you have WAY more nutrients than "if you break down exactly what you need to eat and only eat that", let alone a diet full of junk food etc (and even that has some nutrients). If you're eating mostly fruits and vegetables regardless of preparation you're getting tons of vitamins and so on - not convinced there's any benefit to having 5000% of the recommended level rather than 4000%. With whole veg you'd also feel a lot more full, won't have as much of a sugar spike, and it'd be way more tasty.

There are also some fruits and vegetables that are counterintuitively more nutritious when cooked.

Well, as I stated in this post here:

If someone wanted to juice over making smoothies then they should be supplementing their fiber somehow. (juicing here is taking just the juice of the fruits and veggies versus blending the foods whole in a smoothie.). I have been doing more of a smoothie fast so I am getting all of the fiber from the foods, plus I add ground flax seed in.

I think doing just a straight juicing fast is best for those who are really sick, overweight, etc. I've seen some studies done with cancer patients who's bodies can't process high fiber, but they respond extremely well to simply juicing.

If you blend the whole food you get all of the fiber and other nutrients. It still is easier for your body to break it down in a liquid state versus chewing/digesting.

I am not sure how much clearer I can be on this topic other than what I have been here.

 

[Randomnity]

Well, as I stated in this post here:


If you blend the whole food you get all of the fiber and other nutrients. It still is easier for your body to break it down in a liquid state versus chewing/digesting.

I am not sure how much clearer I can be on this topic other than what I have been here.

To be clear, I'm not arguing that point at all, since I haven't done any research on it. My point is that I think the extra nutrients are irrelevant for your health compared to the levels you would be ingesting with a diet of mostly whole fruits and vegetables...even if the levels are higher it could be (is likely to be) completely meaningless from a biological perspective.

I'm not aware of any studies that have reliably tested the logic that "if one orange is good for you, 17 oranges must be better for you!"

 

[Anew Leaf]

To be clear, I'm not arguing that point at all, since I haven't done any research on it. My point is that I think the extra nutrients are irrelevant for your health compared to the levels you would be ingesting with a diet of mostly whole fruits and vegetables...even if the levels are higher it could be (is likely to be) completely meaningless from a biological perspective.

I'm not aware of any studies that have reliably tested the logic that "if one orange is good for you, 17 oranges must be better for you!"

If you haven't done any research on what the extra nutrients are doing or not doing, then why bother nitpicking me?

I started this thread to talk about a cool documentary I saw, that's it.

 

[Randomnity]

I don't know why you aren't understanding. I'm saying something completely different from what you're replying to. nevermind then, carry on.......

 

[NotOfTwo]

I saw that documentary a while ago, it was interesting. I did wonder how to implement the plan on a busy schedule and tight budget. I might have to re-watch.

 

[Anew Leaf]

I don't know why you aren't understanding. I'm saying something completely different from what you're replying to. nevermind then, carry on.......

I'm confused because your original post doesn't seem to be responding to what I wrote exactly, and that is the evidence I have had to blindly go on.

If you are asking or pointing out or whatever about having more nutrients than needed... Why does that even matter? If someone is eating five cheeseburgers a day is the priority how much vitamin c they are peeing out if they start juicing? Or is the priority choosing to not eat greasy food?

 

[CzeCze]

If I had a juicer, I'd be willing to try that...How much do juicers cost?

Cheaper models around $60. There was also a bit of a discussion on juicing vs blending in the 'fitness challenge thread'. Having done both, I think juicing tastes better or basically is much easier to do than blending where your ratios and recipes count more. A top of the line juice blender is $450 new minimum (Vitamix of Blendtec) which is kinda nuts. I got mine on ebay for a very good price. For juicing if you check on Amazon the maker Breville is the best IMHO. I bought a powerful Breville juicer for less than $120 and it really works well. It's a pain to clean though but I think with your 'Jness' you'll have less trouble with it than I did. >_<

I watched a documentary this week called "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead."

I saw the first half of it and have mentioned it in some other threads. I have a raw vegan friend who has tried exclusively juicing. It's actually quite difficult to stick with because it's not very filling. I have done the lemonade juice fast a few times. Fasts are very bad options for weight loss as they encourage yo yo dieting and a false sense of 'holy grail'ness, I think the docu guy was an extreme case because desperation and having money banked on his story pushed him to stick with it for the extended amount of time necessary to really reset his system.

I was wondering what your goals were for your juice fast? I think juice fasts are best for detox when you have real issues like the docu guy's mystery skin allergy and related health issues. I think for truly healthy people who eat mostly green and clean anyways juice fasts have less impact. At least, I've never really experienced energy surges, 'clean feeling' etc. that juice fasts supposedly give you (I don't have the best diet, but I think it's definitely better than average in America). But for literally getting rid of toxins or resetting an inflammed/irritated system to get back to 'normal' I think they are great. I personally also blend and juice for the fiber and literally when it gets difficult/a chore to chew all the salad/greens I want.

The juice fasts I've done have curbed cravings, specifically for sweets/sugar. My skin also seems cleaner.

I think green juice has a place in a comprehensive healthy eating system, especially if taken first thing in the morning (@Mmmhmm can tell you more about this) and if you are well-informed about nutrition and how your own body responds to food. Or I think juicing can help show you how your body responds to food. I don't think it's necessary to go on a juice only fast except in cases where you have allergies or if those kick starts motivate you. I also think the key is to stick with it. I had a friend try to quit smoking and do a juice cleanse for a few days for the new year but I think she gave up early.

Let us know how it goes!

 

[CzeCze]

Also, please share some good juice recipes with us. Whenever I use the Blendtec I have 50/50 chance of concocting something sludgy, green, and disgusting. I shared with my mom and she said she'd rather have traditional east Asian medicine (which tastes TERRIBLE generally) than a green smoothie.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Cheaper models around $60. There was also a bit of a discussion on juicing vs blending in the 'fitness challenge thread'. Having done both, I think juicing tastes better or basically is much easier to do than blending where your ratios and recipes count more. A top of the line juice blender is $450 new minimum (Vitamix of Blendtec) which is kinda nuts. I got mine on ebay for a very good price. For juicing if you check on Amazon the maker Breville is the best IMHO. I bought a powerful Breville juicer for less than $120 and it really works well. It's a pain to clean though but I think with your 'Jness' you'll have less trouble with it than I did. >_<

Yeah, I got a Vitamix.... so I know that they are pricy!!! However, considering that I am using it 1-2x per day, everyday... It has been a much better investment than my Xbox with Kinetic was last year.

I had a juicer, but I gave that away to a friend now that I have this.

I saw the first half of it and have mentioned it in some other threads. I have a raw vegan friend who has tried exclusively juicing. It's actually quite difficult to stick with because it's not very filling. I have done the lemonade juice fast a few times. Fasts are very bad options for weight loss as they encourage yo yo dieting and a false sense of 'holy grail'ness, I think the docu guy was an extreme case because desperation and having money banked on his story pushed him to stick with it for the extended amount of time necessary to really reset his system.

Both the documentary guy and the man he helped were extreme cases. The docu guy (Joe) also inspired a regular woman to try juicing for just a week. Regular as in, normal weight, exercised, relatively healthy, etc. She spoke on the documentary too about her journey and that was very enlightening. When the week was up she went back to eating food, except that she juiced for her breakfast. I think THAT is more of what the average person should take from the documentary... not necessarily going 60 days drinking only juice.

You should definitely finish the documentary sometime. It was very inspiring and interesting to see all of the progress that was made.

I was wondering what your goals were for your juice fast? I think juice fasts are best for detox when you have real issues like the docu guy's mystery skin allergy and related health issues. I think for truly healthy people who eat mostly green and clean anyways juice fasts have less impact. At least, I've never really experienced energy surges, 'clean feeling' etc. that juice fasts supposedly give you (I don't have the best diet, but I think it's definitely better than average in America). But for literally getting rid of toxins or resetting an inflammed/irritated system to get back to 'normal' I think they are great. I personally also blend and juice for the fiber and literally when it gets difficult/a chore to chew all the salad/greens I want.

The juice fasts I've done have curbed cravings, specifically for sweets/sugar. My skin also seems cleaner.

I had several goals for this experience. First, in case I didn't make it clear, I wasn't doing a pure juice fast. My focus was on making green smoothies for all three of my meals for 10 days. So in my case I am using the whole food and using my blender, versus just the juice.

Goals:
1. Detox from after the holidays. I gained 6 lbs from Thanksgiving to Xmas from eating holiday meals, and snacks. With maybe another lb left over from PMS bloat.
2. Start the new year off fresh inside and out.
3. Jumpstart my nutrition and exercise regime again now that the holidays were over.
4. Eat as many meals as I can as green smoothies, within reason of what my body needs.
5. Get out of the habit of eating processed foods with sugar and salt and too much wheat in them. (I don't buy snack foods for myself, and most of my meals are cooked by me... However, holiday season with family outings and friend parties, etc, brought all of the foods I normally avoid. I have learned through trial and error that refined sugars, wheat, and dairy are not good for me.)

For me, I have had an energy surge this whole week. I think the foundation is the better nutrition I have been consuming, and the core of the energy surge has been me upping my exercises. I've not only lost the holiday bloat but I have lost a few extra pounds as well, and I feel much lighter and smaller than I did a week and a half ago... and my clothing can attest to it. I also haven't done 100% smoothies. A couple of nights I substituted my green smoothie for quinoa, my homemade spaghetti sauce, and sauteed citrus mushrooms. I've upped my exercises to now include weights and because of that I have needed to up my protein intake.

My skin is usually pretty good regardless of any poor eating habits, but I have noticed improvements this week.

I think green juice has a place in a comprehensive healthy eating system, especially if taken first thing in the morning (@Mmmhmm can tell you more about this) and if you are well-informed about nutrition and how your own body responds to food. Or I think juicing can help show you how your body responds to food. I don't think it's necessary to go on a juice only fast except in cases where you have allergies or if those kick starts motivate you. I also think the key is to stick with it. I had a friend try to quit smoking and do a juice cleanse for a few days for the new year but I think she gave up early.

Let us know how it goes!

Yes, I agree! For myself, I prefer making a green smoothie out of the foods instead of just consuming the juice. Now that I have cut back, and eliminated refined sugars from my diet this past year... I have noticed that when I drink apple juice by itself that I get a blood sugar surge that feels uncomfortable. Last night I ate too many dried Incan berries and I got a bit sick from that.

The pure juicing fast is best for those who are really sick.

I will write more later... work calls!

 

[redcheerio]

[MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION], I would caution that if you detox/ diet this way, make sure you are making some of those meals green soup instead of green smoothies. Green smoothies CAN be very sugary, depending on what you make them with. I found that to reduce the amount of sweetness I require to make the fruit smoothies taste good, I use either banana + berries, or mango + ginger.

As for green soups, you can make some delicious green soups with spinach, avocado, water, and spices.

Also, please make sure you get your protein and healthy fats. (And fiber for anyone using juicers instead of blenders.) I would recommend modifying your plan by adding protein powder and ground flaxseed to your fruity green smoothies and have that for breakfast. (Protein powder - egg protein is best, whey protein next best, avoid soy protein. Also make sure the sugar content is low.) Maybe also something solid like eggs. Eggs make a huge difference for me, I'm much less hungry throughout the day if I have eggs and/or meat for breakfast.

For lunch, you could have green soup with chicken and salad or something like that. I find fresh squeezed lime + olive oil makes a delicious and healthy salad dressing with no sugar.

For dinner, I recommend fish and veggies. You could add sauce to them, but be very wary of sauces full of sugar. Alternatively, when I did a detox diet last January, I either had steamed veggies with my fish (with butter and sea salt, lemon on the fish), or I had veggie stir fries with fresh ginger, garlic, and sea salt. Delicious. For dessert, I had berries or berries and macadamia nuts (but beware the extremely high fat content in mac nuts - 22g fat in 1 oz!!!!)

If you're super serious about detox, you could start with one day of semi-fasting with homemade soup made only with fresh veggies (cook it with potatoes but remove them and don't eat them so that you're getting the nutrients without the starchy carbs), and go for 1-3 colon cleansing sessions (not fun but not horrible, and worth doing once in your life).

PS - I think men can get away with crazy fad diets like juice only for 60 days (holy crap dude) without permanently fucking up their metabolisms. We need to be more careful and balanced about it.

 

[Anew Leaf]

[MENTION=13402]Saturned[/MENTION], I would caution that if you detox/ diet this way, make sure you are making some of those meals green soup instead of green smoothies. Green smoothies CAN be very sugary, depending on what you make them with. I found that to reduce the amount of sweetness I require to make the fruit smoothies taste good, I use either banana + berries, or mango + ginger.

As for green soups, you can make some delicious green soups with spinach, avocado, water, and spices.

Also, please make sure you get your protein and healthy fats. (And fiber for anyone using juicers instead of blenders.) I would recommend modifying your plan by adding protein powder and ground flaxseed to your fruity green smoothies and have that for breakfast. (Protein powder - egg protein is best, whey protein next best, avoid soy protein. Also make sure the sugar content is low.) Maybe also something solid like eggs. Eggs make a huge difference for me, I'm much less hungry throughout the day if I have eggs and/or meat for breakfast.

For lunch, you could have green soup with chicken and salad or something like that. I find fresh squeezed lime + olive oil makes a delicious and healthy salad dressing with no sugar.

For dinner, I recommend fish and veggies. You could add sauce to them, but be very wary of sauces full of sugar. Alternatively, when I did a detox diet last January, I either had steamed veggies with my fish (with butter and sea salt, lemon on the fish), or I had veggie stir fries with fresh ginger, garlic, and sea salt. Delicious. For dessert, I had berries or berries and macadamia nuts (but beware the extremely high fat content in mac nuts - 22g fat in 1 oz!!!!)

If you're super serious about detox, you could start with one day of semi-fasting with homemade soup made only with fresh veggies (cook it with potatoes but remove them and don't eat them so that you're getting the nutrients without the starchy carbs), and go for 1-3 colon cleansing sessions (not fun but not horrible, and worth doing once in your life).

PS - I think men can get away with crazy fad diets like juice only for 60 days (holy crap dude) without permanently fucking up their metabolisms. We need to be more careful and balanced about it.

I appreciate the care !

My green smoothies are composed of these elements: water, greens, frozen berries, fresh fruit, fats, fiber, and supplements. Greens: collards (4-5 leaves), Kale (4-5 leaves), and Swiss Chard (2-3 leaves). Frozen berries: blueberries, black berries, raspberries, cherries (lower dose on these). Fats: Avocado, Hemp seed oil, Flax Seed Oil. Fresh fruit: banana, apple, pear. Fiber: Ground flax seed. Supplements: Spirulina, Goji powder, Noni powder, Maca, Cacao, Hemp protein. *

Overall I strive to keep the greens at the forefront and the fruits for added fiber (berries) and taste (fresh choices).

I am definitely not depriving myself on this "diet" in any way. I am no longer a big meat eater, so typically I have maybe 3-4 meals a week involving chicken or fish. Otherwise most of my protein is from plant sources such as quinoa.



*P.S. Not all of this at once. I pick and choose 1-2 things from each group.

 

[redcheerio]

I appreciate the care !

My green smoothies are composed of these elements: water, greens, frozen berries, fresh fruit, fats, fiber, and supplements. Greens: collards (4-5 leaves), Kale (4-5 leaves), and Swiss Chard (2-3 leaves). Frozen berries: blueberries, black berries, raspberries, cherries (lower dose on these). Fats: Avocado, Hemp seed oil, Flax Seed Oil. Fresh fruit: banana, apple, pear. Fiber: Ground flax seed. Supplements: Spirulina, Goji powder, Noni powder, Maca, Cacao, Hemp protein. *

Overall I strive to keep the greens at the forefront and the fruits for added fiber (berries) and taste (fresh choices).

I am definitely not depriving myself on this "diet" in any way. I am no longer a big meat eater, so typically I have maybe 3-4 meals a week involving chicken or fish. Otherwise most of my protein is from plant sources such as quinoa.

Cool, good luck!

*P.S. Not all of this at once. I pick and choose 1-2 things from each group.

Ah, OK. I did wonder about that, I was thinking holy crap! haha

PS - Wait, you're also getting your veggies, though, right? Veggies are more important than fruit, although fruit is important too.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Cool, good luck!



Ah, OK. I did wonder about that, I was thinking holy crap! haha

PS - Wait, you're also getting your veggies, though, right? Veggies are more important than fruit, although fruit is important too.

Thank you!

I shall be posting my final results tomorrow in my blog. I took measurements and my weight the morning of the 1st, and I am curious to see what the math will show. I can already tell by my clothing being looser, and the fact that I can get into jeans and a coat that are a size down, that something has happened.

 

[redcheerio]

Thank you!

I shall be posting my final results tomorrow in my blog. I took measurements and my weight the morning of the 1st, and I am curious to see what the math will show. I can already tell by my clothing being looser, and the fact that I can get into jeans and a coat that are a size down, that something has happened.

Awesome, good for you!!!

I also recommend to anyone checking out the list of super foods if you haven't seen it. Fruits and veggies are not all created equal.

http://www.foodallergyandglutenfreeweightloss.com/inflammation.html

Fruits (Best eaten fresh and raw)

Apples
Blueberries (Use blueberries frozen without sugar if out of season).
Cherries (Use cherries frozen without sugar if out of season).
Grapefruit
Oranges
Pomegranates
Red grapes*

Vegetables

Arugula
Bell peppers
Broccoli
Cabbage
Carrots
Celery*
Leeks
Onions
Romaine lettuce
Scallions
Shitake mushrooms
Spinach
Tomatoes

Nuts and Seeds (Raw, not roasted)

Almonds
Flaxseeds
Sesame seeds
Walnuts

Animal Protein Foods

Egg whites
Flounder
Salmon
Sole
Tilapia
Yogurt (sugar-free and low-fat or nonfat)

Herbs and Spices

Basil
Black pepper
Cardamom
Chives
Cilantro
Cinnamon
Cloves
Garlic
Ginger
Parsley
Turmeric

Beverages

Blueberry juice
Cherry juice
Ginger tea
Green tea
Pomegranate juice
Vegetable juice (mixed or carrot juice)

* Most of the foods on this list come from the “Top 40 Superfoods” list in The Fat Resistance Diet by Leo Galland, M.D. A * denotes that this food was recommended as an anti-inflammatory food by another expert.