Starch (Carbs) Is the Devil! ... So is sugar!

[Patches]

There is also a relatively high number of undiagnosed cases of insulin resistance out there. Had a glucose test recently?

That's actually WHY I eat so low carb. I was diagnosed with an insulin resistance, and there are a good bit of people in my family with type 1 diabetes. There's no doubt that carbs are nothing but bad for me.

 

[citizen cane]

Diets that involve cutting out or severely limiting certain nutrients are, generally speaking, unhealthy. Exceptions include such things known to have no nutritional value such as trans fats, but certainly neither sugar nor starch. However, moderation in one's diet is necessary, and the amounts of certain nutrients one needs to consume in order to stay as healthy as possible will vary from person to person.

 

[Rail Tracer]

There is generally two trends.

The type of carb you eat don't make you full (or full long enough.)
The fat you eat doesn't make you full.

In a scale.
Meat would be the most likely to get you full fast.
Fruits and vegetables? Same thing. You can get quite a bit of nutrients with only fruits and vegetables alone... and get about 1500 calories or even less. Processed fruits and vegetables? Not the same.
As for carbs itself. Whole grain is ok. Processed foods like white rice is not. When you eat low on the complex carbs, you're asking for constipation or foods stuck in your large intestine (keep watch with it when you are older.)

But don't expect to get all your nutrients from meat because it ain't happening. You can get most of your nutrients with fruits and vegetables alone, you can't do that with meat.

 

[CzeCze]

I seem to consistently drop in weight day after day if I eat gratuitous amounts of fat, particularly butter, either throughout the day or most notably before bedtime. For a week straight I'd indulge in a slice of butter mid-day and again before bedtime and see typically a consistent ~0.2-0.5lb drop day after day. Ended up back at my ~25lb total loss.

You totally reminded me of this funny headline:

Norway Runs Out of Butter

I didn't think obesity was even an issue in Scandanavian countries...

Personally I'm a fan of 'healthy fats' if only for vanity reasons. As a woman, those good fats make your hair and skin nice and help keep you looking youthful and healthy. My bad cholesterol is low and my healthy LDL levels are high so I think I'm doing something right.

Even after cleaning up the food choices though, I'd experience routine tiredness after my meals. I just kinda dealt with it.

This is so interesting because I've heard this a lot but can't relate. I get visibly perkier and more energetic after a meal. Perhaps I'm sugar sensitive. Doesn't matter if I'm eating potatoes, breads, sushi, veggies, cake, etc. So I used to not get or believe the hype about how carbs make you feel sluggish or 'heavy'. For me it was a vanity decision to try low carb not a lifestyle one.

I have a friend who went vegetarian for ethical reasons but the starch heavy diet made her feel "sluggish and tired" so she became a raw vegan and she swears by green smoothies and salads. I dunno...I've tried that and eating lots of raw veggies doesn't give me that miraculous glow that movies like Fat Sick and Nearly Dead[/URL] promise. It will keep you leaner than a traditional omnivore diet though.

I agree with FDG. Eliminating carbs will reduce your enjoyment of exercise considerably. You just can't go very long or very hard with nothing in your muscles.

When I was on a ketogenic diet (which I wouldn't recommend unless you have epilepsy ) supposedly the body can run on ketones though not as well. I've also tried working out in the morning first thing with no food. Supposedly that helps to burn through your glycogen (stored carb energy) reserves so then your body targets fat for fuel. Add to that a very low carb diet.

Does it work? All I know is that I am unholy tired for the rest of the day. After a week of this though I was noticeably leaner, lighter, my stomach flatter, and I finally understood what people meant by "feeling lighter".

I'm insulin resistant so thinking that sugar and carbs are devils food is more than anecdotal experience here.

I had a hate-hate relationship with food for over 5 years, whenever I ate I felt like crap [...]

I did this so I could eat and not be in pain, the weight stuff was never my aim, it was a side effect so to speak.

Carbs are the devil.

That sounds like a nightmare. Hopefully with your health back on track you can also rediscover your love of food!

Potatoes are higher-GI than most other veggies, go with pumpkin or even sweet potato and the results are better.

I love sweet potatoes! My friend did tell me about a special type of white potato though that is low GI. You can get it at farmer's markets in SF. Those food loving hippies.

 

[Quinlan]

My scale is like this:

Evil

Wheat
Sugar



Daylight




Refined starch



Starch




Meat=nuts=fruit=vegies

Good

Edit: actually starch with fiber would be more neutral on that scale.

 

[spirilis]

Personally I'm a fan of 'healthy fats' if only for vanity reasons. As a woman, those good fats make your hair and skin nice and help keep you looking youthful and healthy. My bad cholesterol is low and my healthy LDL levels are high so I think I'm doing something right.

Reminds me of another thing that happened with the Atkins diet--a lot of flaky, itchy skin I had around my ears, face, hands, etc. cleared up and became perfectly smooth.

When I was on a ketogenic diet (which I wouldn't recommend unless you have epilepsy ) supposedly the body can run on ketones though not as well. I've also tried working out in the morning first thing with no food. Supposedly that helps to burn through your glycogen (stored carb energy) reserves so then your body targets fat for fuel. Add to that a very low carb diet.

Does it work? All I know is that I am unholy tired for the rest of the day. After a week of this though I was noticeably leaner, lighter, my stomach flatter, and I finally understood what people meant by "feeling lighter".

The Atkins diet is more or less a ketogenic diet, so I've been on it (off-and-on as I've cheated on it routinely throughout the past year, mostly on holidays or vacations) for a while. I think there's an adjustment period, though, before you really thrive on them (i.e. can exercise hard).

In my own experience, the tiredness was something that came with the "adjustment period," but it also happened to me when my actual appetite dropped to the point that I wasn't eating enough. I started using FitDay.com for a week to track my actual food intake, and I was shocked at how I was only eating like 1200 calories in a day (for a ~240lb male). Started ramping up the fat and some extra protein, and I felt much better. It's quite interesting that on a ketogenic type of diet, it became easier for me to eat less, whereas on the high-carb diet I've done most of my life it was always easier for me to eat *more*.

 

[FDG]

The "white flour" based products definitely hurt more than the whole wheat ones. A lot of these problems disappeared when I exercised daily or at least 4 times a week, definitely came back when I stopped. I've tried the gym routine and it's not for me, I am simply not someone who cares to exercise with regularity. I just don't see the benefit of it. Always thought weight loss was the benefit, but never got too far with that when I was trying. Now I see diet is the main lever for weight loss, not exercise.

I see, you're probably a naturally calm person I really really enjoy exercise and I need to do it often to feel calm, so it's not an *option* for me. Also I don't think it's great to see it as a way to fat loss, it gets boring that way

 

[spirilis]

I see, you're probably a naturally calm person I really really enjoy exercise and I need to do it often to feel calm, so it's not an *option* for me. Also I don't think it's great to see it as a way to fat loss, it gets boring that way

Yeah, agreement on all points

 

[CzeCze]

Mod Note: some posts split off to here l

 

[CzeCze]

In honor of some of [MENTION=585]spirilis[/MENTION] ' suggestions I'm going to eat some fatty vegan coconut oil chocolate confection before bed. Who needs butter when you have coconut oil chocolate??

 

[Rail Tracer]

In honor of some of [MENTION=585]spirilis[/MENTION] ' suggestions I'm going to eat some fatty vegan coconut oil chocolate confection before bed. Who needs butter when you have coconut oil chocolate??

The only true oil that you can consider relatively healthy would be Canola Oil and Olive Oil.

Other oils just don't compare (besides the taste.)

 

[LadyJaye]

Olive oil is superior, especially for its anti inflammatory properties. I have a salad every day, and put olive oil and rice vinegar on it - it helps a lot with my body pain.

 

[Anew Leaf]

The only true oil that you can consider relatively healthy would be Canola Oil and Olive Oil.

Other oils just don't compare (besides the taste.)

Not true.

Canola oil is not particularly healthy, and olive oil is no where near the healthiest either.

Flax seed oil, hemp seed oil, and coconut oil are much better choices.

For med-high heat, grape seed oil is a better choice than olive oil.

Also, [MENTION=1464]LadyJaye[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1456]Domino[/MENTION]: for anti-inflammatory benefits, flax seed oil is a great choice because it has the highest omega3 count (by far) compared to hemp, sunflower, soybean, pumpkin, canola, and olive.

I haven't tried flax seed oil, but I heard it doesn't taste the best... You may want to hide it.

 

[Rail Tracer]

Not true.

Canola oil is not particularly healthy, and olive oil is no where near the healthiest either.

Flax seed oil, hemp seed oil, and coconut oil are much better choices.

For med-high heat, grape seed oil is a better choice than olive oil.

Also, [MENTION=1464]LadyJaye[/MENTION] and [MENTION=1456]Domino[/MENTION]: for anti-inflammatory benefits, flax seed oil is a great choice because it has the highest omega3 count (by far) compared to hemp, sunflower, soybean, pumpkin, canola, and olive.

I haven't tried flax seed oil, but I heard it doesn't taste the best... You may want to hide it.

In terms of it containing Monounsaturated fat as opposed to other fats that contain more Polyunsaturated-Fat/Saturated-Fat? Yes, both Olive oil and Canola oil contains more monounsaturated fat than other oils.

Yes, Polyunsaturated fat is also healthy, I won't debate that.

But I'll correct what I say, the two that I mentioned contains the best benefits when it comes to the ratio between Monounsaturated fat, Polyunsaturated fat, and Saturated fats with the addition of some quantities of Omega-3 and 6 (close to being a 1:1 ratio.) I do agree that Flax-seed oil has more Omega 3 than the two that I mentioned, but you really wouldn't want to be using Flax-seed oil often nor do you want to keep it for too long without using it (besides the antioxidant properties of Flax Seed is negated by its usage as Flax-seed Oil.)

 

[CzeCze]

I like coconut oil because it's a good source of MCF - medium chained fats and it gets burned more readily by your body for energy. I started using it on some super low carb diet but saw that there are other vague hippie related benefits as well. I also you Bragg's Amino Acids instead of soy sauce. Every little bit counts?

I also sometimes take fish or flax oil, both in capsule form.

I have heard low rumblings that olive oil and oils in genera can go 'rancid' in your system so you shouldn't take too much. I thought once digested food can't go rancid?

Another reason some diets restrict all kinds of oil is that strictly calorie wise a small amount of oil is equal to a large quantity to vegetables. Allegedly. But I'm on such a diet right now and I'm ignoring that rule in favor of the other health benefits of certain oils.

 

[spirilis]

All I can offer as far as the health of oils is concerned, is that much of what I've read since starting low-carb is showing that our understanding of fat's role (particularly saturated fat, considered the devil for the past ~40 years or so) is getting disrupted in a big way. As for me, I'm embracing traditional saturated fats as much as I can (butter, in particular).

Also my understanding about rancidity is the more saturated the fat, the less likely/harder it is to go rancid. Hence why coconut oil can be stored without refrigeration at least for some time. I think the concern with butter is more the trace milk proteins...

 

[nanook]

i will write down much of my experience, good and bad.
i don't go into learning about my metabolism, just about food-health reactions.

i did calorie restriction (1300kcal), often ketogenic, quickly lost 50 of my 80 pounds of bodyfat,

hairs thinned out at accelerated rate, got verry bad gums during ketosis

reached a plateau, became hypersensitive to hunger, too much appetite,
strong urge for more carbs - sometimes up to 200g of carbs, up to 2600kcal
(my metabolic rate must be around 1800, seemeds rather constant during all this time of calorie restriction)

gained back 10 pounds lost them again (with few days of disciplin), gained them back, lost them again, gained them back

help!!! need to find a way to hack my metabolism, or it will go on like that for ever.

this low carb is the best way i ate in my life, but it's not a fix of my issues (derailed metabolism - body "wants" to be fat) and it's not right.

low carb is a fad diet. it's just a workaround for a disease (bad insulin measurement)

this body does want carbs. carbs are essential. without carbs this body thinks its is starving.

this is why it becomes hypersensitve to carbs, when they are eaten, meaning in the tiniest amounts, meaning that eating some carbs makes you hungry for more carbs. not after a while, after a sugar crash. but while eating the carbs and immediately after. the body is like: "this - i want this, more of this, motherfucker !!!"

this is not addiction, there is no model that explains why a body would be addicted to carbs after 2 years of low carb.

maybe this body needs no more than <60g of few carbs. 80 grams? 150 grams? 200? i haven't found a ballance.

this body has made it verry clear, that it does not like ketosis, too.

recently i noticed a yellow tongue. i have read that this indicates liver damage.
it only happens on some days. those days come with headache.

this could be days with too much protein, or days with too much liquid and unsaturated fats or days with too much carb and protein combined.
not sure yet.

i also seem to get verry weird and super bad issues with acidity, dry mouth, weird blood sugar, on days where my body doesn't seem to know wheter to rely on fat, ketones or glucose. it feels like my body fills my blood with both glucose and fat at the same time. not too much glucose in it self.

i have chronic dry skin on the forehead and nose. the skin forms scales/flakes or whatvere the right english word. i wonder if coconut fat may be the culprit behind this. i have coconut fat every day and i have bad skin every day. it's only my forehead.


i can't imagine going back to higher carb (higher than fat) for several reasons, though.
too much carb foods seem to fuck my digestion up.

i am suspicious about how my body digests plant proteins (like those in veges or potatoes). i associate this with leaky gut or liver-fail or whatever it is that leaks substances into my brain that cause fog or headache.


i have had bad issues with internal oxidation after doing sports on verry low carb (almonds for breakfast, bicycling a few hours, nothig else to eat, feel fine with open eyes but as i lie down, i am unable to sleep the hole night, body burning in oxidative stress)

all in all i seem to have the most stable blood sugar on low carb.

i love having ketones in my head.

i have alzheimers in the family (my poor mother is in zombie land) and alzheimers is considered to be in part diabetes type 3 (insulin resistance local to the brain) and i don't want to eat like she did, which was a women-type-of high carb diet (little portions, bread, potato, veges, litte fat)

i have developed a love for herring. i can taste the omega 3
i eat tons of nuts. almonds, walnuts, macademia, cashews, pistachio, brazil nuts.
eggs. avokado.
verry rarely cheese or meat.
(I ate a lot of salami during my weight loss period - but have abandoned "nitrit" german name of the conservation stuff)

too rarely vegetables (too lazy to mess around with fresh stuff like kale - allergic against peas and corn - can only eat some frozen asia mix - gets boring)

like tomato soup or champions with coconut oil

if i eat carbs, potatoes and chickpeas are my favorites. starches (potato, rice) are not the devil, they are the best of all carbohydrates. they don't constitute a complete diet of course.
i react against most legumes, but chickpeas are okay after good soaking.

honestly most of my carbs came from almond chocolate and chroissaints, though! those fucking awesom chroiisants, filled with dark chocolate.

the wheat from croissants fucks up my teeth. not sure if gluten does anything bad to my stomach. i ate noodles all my life, almost daily and had no issues with digestion. i just skip gluten to be sure and because of low-carb/insulin logic.


i have become verry suspicious about rancid fats and fats from seeds.
you should check out the critical info about flaxseed (it's on youtube), if you take a spoon now and then, for omega 3!

what's cool about low carb - the "sweet tooth" went away. i was a super sweet tooth a "4 tablespoons of sugar in coffe" type of sweet tooth. i would not drink anything but coke because water seemed disgusting. now i love the taste of plain water and i can enjoy instant-coffe black without sweetener

eating all natural did away with many of my allergies/sensitivities.
can tollerate eggs - used to agitate me
can have unpeeled raw almonds used to do something to my throat
can have high load of tomatoe stuff and fish - used to give me histamin overload
little to non hayfever in april/may/june
can tollerate little portions of legumes and peanuts (gives me allergic back-ache)

i no longer become hungry when tired - this hunger is high carb related.

on low carb, i can easily change from high coffein to none and back without three days of headache. not sure if this has to do with low carb or with not using sweetener no more.

 

[nanook]

i have learned (almost) all about low carb from jimmy moores llvlc podcast/blog.

the best proof that low carb is not a real fix for a "fatty metabolism" is jimmy moore himself.
this man, god bless him, is fat !!!
coconut-ground-red-meat-lover-fat!

i know he used to be three times as fat before low carb.
but an improvement is not a fix.


i sometimes wonder how much different my low carb experience would be if i would do without coconut fat and coconut milk. it constitutes 12% of my fat intake. how do i know?

i use the software dietorganizer to track all that i am eating.
verry nice for analysis. it generates graphs and statistics.
it's not just about countig callories!
too bad it does not recognize omega 3/6 balance.

 

[Rail Tracer]

I have heard low rumblings that olive oil and oils in genera can go 'rancid' in your system so you shouldn't take too much. I thought once digested food can't go rancid.

It can go rancid before you even use it. The oils that are more likely to go rancid in the duration that you keep at your home? Polyunsaturated~Monounsaturated>Saturated>Trans (but considering how unhealthy transfat is....why even list it?) Contrary to what people believe, oils do have an expiration date.

Generally, it is best to buy oils in small quantities unless you know you'll be using a lot at a time.

All I can offer as far as the health of oils is concerned, is that much of what I've read since starting low-carb is showing that our understanding of fat's role (particularly saturated fat, considered the devil for the past ~40 years or so) is getting disrupted in a big way. As for me, I'm embracing traditional saturated fats as much as I can (butter, in particular).

Also my understanding about rancidity is the more saturated the fat, the less likely/harder it is to go rancid. Hence why coconut oil can be stored without refrigeration at least for some time. I think the concern with butter is more the trace milk proteins...

I believe what you are talking about is the cholesterol size in relevance to your bloodstream, am I correct?

 

[spirilis]

I believe what you are talking about is the cholesterol size in relevance to your bloodstream, am I correct?

That's a big one, it soothes my concern that "omg I'm gonna clog my arteries" by eating all that sat. fat. Other articles, including this one tweeted by Dr. Eades adds an anecdote: http://www.ajcn.org/content/94/6/1433.abstract?etoc
Just seems that it's not the villain the CSPI made it out to be, and I've had good luck with eating a high-fat diet so far.