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Not feeling well? Maybe you need more bacteria and worms?

JAVO

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Exposure to bacteria, worms, and other "yucky" things is good for us.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/10/mind-and-body-worms-to-help-depression-could-happen/

Also: http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/67/12/1211

Recent studies suggest that treating people with worms may improve multiple sclerosis, type 1 diabetes and inflammatory bowel disease. And another “old friend” species—this time a harmless bacterium related to the tuberculosis bug—has been shown to enhance survival when combined with chemotherapy for the treatment of a type of cancer known as adenocarcinoma of the lung.

Remarkably, this bacterium, known as M. vaccae, has also been shown to reduce depression and anxiety in patients with cancer, suggesting that the “old friends” might hold promise for the treatment of psychiatric conditions.

This is even more encouragement for me to continue drinking unfiltered water when on wilderness trips. Maybe there are critters in the water making me feel even happier? :thinking:
 

Stanton Moore

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Well, humans have around 10 trillion bacteria in the gut (as oppossed to 4 trillion human cells), so an imbalance of those little critters could cause systemic illness, theoretically.
There is a Freakonomics podcast about a doctor in Oz who cultivates bacteria from the stools of healthy people and 'implants' them in the bodies of diseased people. He claims to have cured a man of MS with this procedure. It sounds pretty unappetizing, but if it works, it works.
I grew up in the country for the most part, playing outside, getting dirty, swimming in the river, etc. I think my lack of any allergies may be related to this exposure to the natural environment at a young age. I'm going to check on this M. Vaccae bug you mentioned! This gut bacteria concept makes a lot of sense to me...
 

mrcockburn

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I know a guy who will pick up a pizza crust right off a downtown sidewalk and ingest it.

But, this guy's healthy as a horse. He's a chain smoker and drinks 8-12 beers a day, and hasn't seen a doctor in 11 years.

I sure wouldn't dive right into the germy life from the getgo though - there's a fine balance between intestinal flora and ebola.
 

Randomnity

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This is even more encouragement for me to continue drinking unfiltered water when on wilderness trips. Maybe there are critters in the water making me feel even happier? :thinking:
I'd be more worried about parasites and protozoans like giardia than about the germs.

In general though, I agree about the whole germs thing.
 

kyuuei

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Hm. while not the exact same, I once read a book with a raw food article in it:

Stuff about dirt containing vitamins.

I think if you're a germophobe you're screwed in life either way. :laugh: While I don't think kids should go around eating gobs of mud and still water, I never saw anything wrong with kids playing in dirt, or putting a piece of dog food in their mouth on accident. :shrug: It's just not that big of a deal.

As an adult, if you think a bit of germs on something is your biggest worry... You're pretty well off. :3
 

CzeCze

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I know a guy who will pick up a pizza crust right off a downtown sidewalk and ingest it.

But, this guy's healthy as a horse. He's a chain smoker and drinks 8-12 beers a day, and hasn't seen a doctor in 11 years.

I sure wouldn't dive right into the germy life from the getgo though - there's a fine balance between intestinal flora and ebola.

One caveat though is that he is young, no older than mid 20s I'd guess? I wouldn't recommend doing this for long at any age. What will most likely happen is that will catch up to him at 30 and definitely by 40. Have you seen aging rock stars? They look like they've been mashed up in a concrete mixer and then reconstructed with beige putty. You look at them and go DAMN you obviously had a rough life. Especially the fact he hasn't been to a doctor in 11 years. Dear lord. Lots of issues degenerate and you aren't aware of them until they get to crisis level.

Not trying to be a downer, but it's true.

If he were in his 50s and he had lived like that for all his life and still seemed hale and hearty that would be another matter.
 

mrcockburn

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One caveat though is that he is young, no older than mid 20s I'd guess? I wouldn't recommend doing this for long at any age. What will most likely happen is that will catch up to him at 30 and definitely by 40. Have you seen aging rock stars? They look like they've been mashed up in a concrete mixer and then reconstructed with beige putty. You look at them and go DAMN you obviously had a rough life. Especially the fact he hasn't been to a doctor in 11 years. Dear lord. Lots of issues degenerate and you aren't aware of them until they get to crisis level.

Not trying to be a downer, but it's true.

If he were in his 50s and he had lived like that for all his life and still seemed hale and hearty that would be another matter.

He's 51.
 

mrcockburn

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THE HELL YOU SAY.

I'm still witholding judgement till he finally goes to the doctor for a full exam. :altongue:

Yeah, I actually take back what I said about him being healthy as a horse. He's healthy as a bronchitic horse. The dude is constantly coughing, and you can bet he never covers his mouth. Especially if food is around.
 

CzeCze

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Yeah, I actually take back what I said about him being healthy as a horse. He's healthy as a bronchitic horse. The dude is constantly coughing, and you can bet he never covers his mouth. Especially if food is around.

Just give him some of that...stuff...in your avatar. That should cure him. Or give him something to really cry about.

OH GAWD. I would not eat around him. Sometimes I see people across from me aspirating on our family style meal and a little part of me dies. No for real. That is unhygienic as sh*t.
 

rhinosaur

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I agree and also drink unfiltered water but the first link you posted is a bit misleading, as it suggests that most water sources are fine. In reality you have to consider where the water's been. A small creek that flows through Denali wilderness is probably fine. A spring coming straight out of the side of the mountain is fine. A medium-sized creek that passed through farmland? I'd filter it.
 

JAVO

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I agree and also drink unfiltered water but the first link you posted is a bit misleading, as it suggests that most water sources are fine. In reality you have to consider where the water's been. A small creek that flows through Denali wilderness is probably fine. A spring coming straight out of the side of the mountain is fine. A medium-sized creek that passed through farmland? I'd filter it.
Good point. And, it would be good to have a filter with carbon which removes at least some of the agricultural chemicals.
 

Randomnity

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One caveat though is that he is young, no older than mid 20s I'd guess? I wouldn't recommend doing this for long at any age. What will most likely happen is that will catch up to him at 30 and definitely by 40. Have you seen aging rock stars? They look like they've been mashed up in a concrete mixer and then reconstructed with beige putty. You look at them and go DAMN you obviously had a rough life. Especially the fact he hasn't been to a doctor in 11 years. Dear lord. Lots of issues degenerate and you aren't aware of them until they get to crisis level.

Not trying to be a downer, but it's true.

If he were in his 50s and he had lived like that for all his life and still seemed hale and hearty that would be another matter.
haha, I think the booze and smoking is more relevant (and drugs, especially with rock stars!) than the bacteria. With bacteria they might take a few days to build up to sickness-inducing levels but they won't hang around for years waiting for the chance to strike! Maybe that's what you meant anyway, just saying. :)


Interesting! Good to know, although I'm still not sure I would trust it when there's really not much downside to filtering the water, other than time I guess.
 

jimrckhnd

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Meh... in my job I get to ingest way more dirt and microbes than I like to think about. Most of the time I'm pretty healthy (last couple of years have been odd - but I put it down to high levels of physical and mental stress). So maybe there is something to be said for the idea that modern humans are a bit to "clean".

On the other hand knowing what I do about aqueous chemistry I'm not a big advocate of just drinking unfiltered water - even muni water. I've seen some data that has left me with my jaw hanging open "people drink this sh*t?" (sometimes literally!).
 

mrcockburn

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I think it's better to just eat yogurt or sauerkraut for healthy microbes without risking flesheatng disease.
 

JAVO

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Interesting! Good to know, although I'm still not sure I would trust it when there's really not much downside to filtering the water, other than time I guess.
You're right that it's not a huge deal. The downsides include:
  • It can be a slight hassle to either pump or hang a bag with a tube and wait for gravity to do the work.
  • Filters weigh a few ounces to over a pound for really thorough pump models.
  • They can crack and not filter out pathogens without any indication that they're not working. A drop or freezing at night could cause this.
  • They can clog unexpectedly in silty water.
  • They cost money.

On the other hand knowing what I do about aqueous chemistry I'm not a big advocate of just drinking unfiltered water - even muni water. I've seen some data that has left me with my jaw hanging open "people drink this sh*t?" (sometimes literally!).
Don't be so hard on drinking municipal water. It dilutes the even higher concentration of pathogens in contaminated food, especially at the salad bar. :sick:

I think it's better to just eat yogurt or sauerkraut for healthy microbes without risking flesheatng disease.
I like it. It's the "never eat something which might return the favor" approach.
 
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