Perception of Food

[rav3n]

Why do people view food from a reward and punishment perspective?

If you think about it, diets play into the "good" and "bad" dichotomy. If I eat this healthy food even though my body wants unhealthy food and in essence, I'm punishing myself, I feel good about it.

If I'm a good girl, I'll have ice cream for dessert tonight.

I feel bad so I'm going to eat this entire gigantic bag of grease chips!

Isn't there a way to break out of these mindsets and view food for what it is, sustenance? Instead of going from one extreme to the other of eat crap then diet, why not just moderate your daily intake?

 

[Thalassa]

I think it is taught to people by their parents.

"If you're a good girl, you can have a cookie"

"If you eat your dinner, I will let you have ice cream"

"If you make straight A's, I will take you out to dinner"

Plus people are bought special cakes on their birthdays, and often get to have whatever kind of dinner they choose, and are told if they're well-behaved the Easter bunny will bring them baskets of candy, et al.

In the third grade, I also had a teacher who would allow us to choose candy from a jar if we did extra credit reading and wrote a short book review of it.

I think all of this plays into the psychological perception of food as punishment/reward.

 

[Unkindloving]

I agree, but there are a number of reasons for the mindsets. Unhealthy foods will affect the body in different ways than healthy food, so from a health standpoint one can get obsessed with considering more than just moderation. I've known people who calculate down to calories, carbs, fats, sodium, sugars, etc and so on an so forth. It is too mind-numbing for me to even consider.
In the same token, people who just moderate their unhealthy foods are mind-numbing for me, as well. While you may keep yourself from becoming a whale, likely won't be doing the other internal workings of your body too many favors.

I suppose, after a while and a routine, the obsession with food feels less like an obsession. It likely just becomes second nature when you're aware enough. I don't believe in having emotional breakdowns over food though. It's just silly- the bandwagon is always going to be there and just because it may hit bumps along the way, doesn't mean that it got swallowed by a friggin sandpit and you're stuck in one spot with a lifetime supply of doritos. People just gets nuts with those sort of thoughts, then it can drive them to obsess even further, and have that good/bad mentality even harder.

I prefer the mindset of making better choices with my food. I refuse to eat what I think tastes like cardboard. If it does, I'll see if there's a way to rock it out to my liking. I refuse to deprive myself of what I may want to eat, but never beat myself up for it or treat it as a reward.
To me, the people who treat food such extreme ways have problems that lie far deeper than their health or opinion on food itself.

 

[Thalassa]

I think the only way to break out of it psychologically, also, is to shift psychologically through various things. One thing that has helped me is to learn about how people eat in other cultures, or how they ate during different time periods.

It also helps if you notice how much better you feel if you eat lightly when you're hungry most of the time, and then only eat really rich/fattening/sugary things once a week or less. Psychologically you realize that nothing tastes as good as thin feels. I mean I used to think that statement was really warped, like something an anorexic would say, but in truth you don't have to have an eating disorder - if you just eat healthy you really do...feel...better!

Hmmm, what else? The more you eat healthy food, the more you crave it. It's true.

It also helps to be surrounded by obese people eating junk. Nothing motivates me to eat right like leaving the house and seeing a bunch of obsese people inhaling some fast food. It seriously freaks me out. This started I think when I worked in a grocery store and I noticed how disgusting some people's diets were.

All of this can go into the psychological de-training. But it's a process, it doesn't happen overnight.

 

[ThinkingAboutIt]

Why do people view food from a reward and punishment perspective?

If you think about it, diets play into the "good" and "bad" dichotomy. If I eat this healthy food even though my body wants unhealthy food and in essence, I'm punishing myself, I feel good about it.

If I'm a good girl, I'll have ice cream for dessert tonight.

I feel bad so I'm going to eat this entire gigantic bag of grease chips!

Isn't there a way to break out of these mindsets and view food for what it is, sustenance? Instead of going from one extreme to the other of eat crap then diet, why not just moderate your daily intake?

I think it is stress related. If you are under constant stress, you need something that makes you feel good. While it might be something that is ultimately bad for you, it is temporary happiness. Isn't that the same reason people get addicted to drugs? I am having this problem with my coffee drinks. I love them. I could drink them all day long too! 'happiness in a cup' lol.

 

[Quinlan]

The obesity stigma is a powerful one.

 

[Thalassa]

Stigma? Do you not live in the U.S.? People have gotten considerably larger here, even in just the past ten years or so. I'm absolutely appalled at the number of overweight children and teenagers, because they're going to have a harder time getting healthy than people who at least started out their development at an average or slender weight.

 

[Quinlan]

Stigma? Do you not live in the U.S.?

No

People have gotten considerably larger here,

Yeah and so what? This just increases the stigma.

even in just the past ten years or so.

I don't think the evidence supports this.

I'm absolutely appalled at the number of overweight children and teenagers, because they're going to have a harder time getting healthy than people who at least started out their development at an average or slender weight.

The fact that you're appalled by their existense just proves the stigma.

 

[Thalassa]

...you sound like a person in denial.

People are getting fatter because they're eating more shit.

Of course there are people with genetic or thyroid conditions, but generally those people are merely overweight, not obese.

 

[Quinlan]

...you sound like a person in denial.

In denial of what exactly?

I do deny that the united states has had any dramatic increase in obesity over the last 10 years as the evidence does not seem to suggest that:

In 2007-2008, the prevalence of obesity was 32.2% among adult men and 35.5% among adult women. The increases in the prevalence of obesity previously observed do not appear to be continuing at the same rate over the past 10 years, particularly for women and possibly for men.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/303/3/235.full

People are getting fatter because they're eating more shit.

Perhaps, so what has that got to do with my first post? If anything this is a stereotype and stereotypes are commonly applied to stigmatised groups, therefore you're once again proving the stigma exists.

Of course there are people with genetic or thyroid conditions, but generally those people are merely overweight, not obese.

Prove it, I think it's the other way around, the bigger you are the more likely you have some kind of metabolic problem. Just look at overeating studies, it is very difficult for normal weight people to overeat themselves to obesity without some sort of metabolic disorder but reaching mere overweight would be easier.

 

[Such Irony]

Hmmm, what else? The more you eat healthy food, the more you crave it. It's true.

That's interesting. I've been eating healthier lately and I've noticed this. Before I'd be indifferent to foods like carrots and apples but make myself eat them anyway because I knew they would be good for me. Guess what, I'm actually starting to think thoughts like "I could go for a juicy apple right now" when I never used to have that happen.

It also helps to be surrounded by obese people eating junk. Nothing motivates me to eat right like leaving the house and seeing a bunch of obsese people inhaling some fast food. It seriously freaks me out. This started I think when I worked in a grocery store and I noticed how disgusting some people's diets were.

All of this can go into the psychological de-training. But it's a process, it doesn't happen overnight.

It's not just the obese people. I've seen plenty of thin people eating junk. Maybe the thin people just have really fast metabolisms or they don't each much quantity of food overall, but it still isn't healthy. Some of those thin junk food eating people are young but as they get older if they keep doing what they're doing they will likely gain weight.

 

[Quinlan]

I have been (arguably) eating healthier lately and rather than craving healthy food I just no longer have cravings for anything, food is just food. I don't spend my morning thinking about the vending machine. I think sugar has highly addictive qualities.

 

[Patches]

Ive had to really change my perception drastically from "eating food because it tastes good" to "eating food as fuel". Everything that is sweet and pretty much everything that I like is terrible for me. So I have to get it out of my mind that I'm eating for flavor. I'm eating things that are going to be best for my body. Thats not to say that everything I have to eat has to taste bad. But I can't eat things JUST because they're delicious.

I'm trying to train myself into thinking like that for the rest of my life. Want a piece of candy? No. Thats offers zero nutritional value to my body. Pasta? No. That's horrible for my body.

Assessing food based on it's value.

 

[Chiharu]

Well, I think we view food the same way that we view any other thing that makes us feel good, and despite a lot of evidence that it doesn't work, the whole donkey/carrot approach is still the most common motivation method...

Instead of eating a whole bag of cheap potato chips that aren't even that good, I eat a small bowl of the more expensive potato chips I adore.
Don't eat celery for a week then splurge on two days of nothing but cake, eat HEALTHIER meals with occasional small bad-for-you snacks.
Don't eliminate mashed potatoes completely from you meals, just eat a small serving of delicious rosemary/garlic home-made mashed potatoes instead of a family-sized tup from KFC.

Then cutting back doesn't feel like punishment and you're building good, sustainable habits that still allow your to really enjoy life.

 

[Randomnity]

I like the philosophy of eating food mindfully - i.e. only eating "bad" food if it's really, truly delicious (and considering it a small, occasional treat, not a daily menu). I don't like the idea of beating yourself up over what you eat afterwards - may as well enjoy it, you're stuck with the calories. The time to think about it is beforehand.

I'm not very good at following that philosophy though - everything seems OMG delicious to me. I do try to fill myself up with better foods at mealtimes at least, so I (hopefully) don't turn into a starving person mindlessly shoving down any food within reach.

 

[Giggly]

I have never done this. I enjoy everything I eat, unless it tastes badly.

The closest thing that registers in my mind is when an adult talks of putting soap in a child's mouth for cursing (being bad). I've never had this happen to me though but thought it was a cruel idea as a child.

 

[Thalassa]

You know what is ironic about you people torturing yourself over "what tastes good"? Like ninety something percent of French people report that they enjoy their food, while less than half Americans report the same, yet French people are on average thinner.

There is no crime in enjoying your food. "Eating for fuel" seems robotic and weirdly masochistic and Puritanical or something.

I'm not sure it works, either. It seems like if you're the sort of person who likes food and you forced yourself into this mentality you'd eventually start binging because you'd feel so deprived.

Eating just has to be more balanced, it's not like this "oh I must force myself to live off of raw carrots and hemp seeds."

 

[Thalassa]

Well, I think we view food the same way that we view any other thing that makes us feel good, and despite a lot of evidence that it doesn't work, the whole donkey/carrot approach is still the most common motivation method...

Instead of eating a whole bag of cheap potato chips that aren't even that good, I eat a small bowl of the more expensive potato chips I adore.
Don't eat celery for a week then splurge on two days of nothing but cake, eat HEALTHIER meals with occasional small bad-for-you snacks.
Don't eliminate mashed potatoes completely from you meals, just eat a small serving of delicious rosemary/garlic home-made mashed potatoes instead of a family-sized tup from KFC.

Then cutting back doesn't feel like punishment and you're building good, sustainable habits that still allow your to really enjoy life.

You've got the right idea.

 

[ThatGirl]

The way I view food is like delegating a task to my stomach. Here you work on this handful of peanuts for the next few hours while I do this. I find myself telling TK he can have something sweet IF....but I don't really govern myself the same way. Probably because fatty or overly sweet foods and a full belly make me feel more like shit. I don't see it as rewarding at all.

 

[kyuuei]

Isn't there a way to break out of these mindsets and view food for what it is, sustenance? Instead of going from one extreme to the other of eat crap then diet, why not just moderate your daily intake?

I havent read any replies yet so bare with me.

I think part of it is that you're raised with this aspect.. "If you're good, you'll get mcdonalds!" 'It's your birthday, so it's okay to cheat a little.' Sort of thing. We also tend to always make enough for an army no matter who is eating--just look at the typical BBQ people throw.
The other part is that people are just extreme beings in general. Moderation is the best way to almost anything in life, I have discovered.. but human beings are not moderate people. That part takes patience, learning, and dedication to changing something not so natural until it becomes natural.. We, as people, aren't exactly known for being amazing at that.

I think the easiest way we're changing is with trendy cook books and shows, to be honest. It's been awful for truly good dieting in the sense of weight-loss pills and shit, but the trendy things like the "cook yourself thin" shows have really shown people how to take the 'good stuff' and turn it into 'good food' as well. No compromising, just looking at things in a different way and enjoying it. Just getting the information out there that cooking healthy IS easy (but not effortless), and CAN taste great. The trendier the education gets, the more it spreads, and thus the more it catches on.