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Getting someone to lose weight

entropie

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I am Android:

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cafe

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I think if I were her, I'd ramp up the bad eating habits and maybe add some smoking and drinking in excess in hopes of escaping my horrid, meddling, self-righteous family that much sooner.
 

Ulaes

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I think if I were her, I'd ramp up the bad eating habits and maybe add some smoking and drinking in excess in hopes of escaping my horrid, meddling, self-righteous family that much sooner.

well, you're a similar type and like her, sensitive, so how would you approach this? How can i make her feel better? how she feels is a big part of why i want her to get healthy.
You and i might be incurabley at odds already anyway, if you think leaving her to her own devices is the better thing to do. it may be the more sensitive thing but hey, you can be there to watch her die because of her lifestyle.
You don't like the way I'm going about it or is it the whole thing?
She always complains about her weight and she's getting sicker and weaker as she gets older.
 

cafe

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well, you're a similar type and like her, clearly very sensitive, so how would you approach this? How can i make her feel better? how she feels is a big part of why i want her to get healthy.
You and i might be incurabley at odds already anyway, if you think leaving her to her own devices is the better thing to do. it may be the more sensitive thing but hey, you can be there to watch her die because of her lifestyle. are you against interfering with drug usage as well?
You don't like the way I'm going about it or is it the whole thing?
I think it's futile to attempt to change another person's behavior, especially when they haven't explicitly enlisted your help. She's an adult and the choices she makes are her own. It's okay to tell her how you feel and ask if there is anything you can do to help. It's okay to refuse to buy her snack cakes and invite her to go for a walk/work out with you with you.

Beyond that, no matter how much you want to, there isn't anything you can do. She is legally competent and responsible for herself. It is her decision and yes, it would also be her decision if she were using drugs because she is an adult. Even if you were a professional, you wouldn't have any business taking her on as a client because your relationship is too close for you to be objective.

If we are incurably at odds, it has nothing to do with type because I get along with my INTP husband very well -- precisely because respecting the autonomy of others is one of my cardinal rules. It's about respect and not setting yourself up as some kind of superior authority who has the right (moral obligation?) to control them for their own good.

How I would handle it? I would try to avoid making her feel guilt or shame -- I've only ever known those two nasty feelings to make things like this worse. I would try to make sure she knows that I love her no matter how much she weighs. If she has made some kind of progress (assuming she chooses to make healthier choices) I would praise her for it -- tell her she looks good when she looks good, whether she's lost weight or not. I would ask her if she'd like to be my walking/gym, etc partner and enjoy the companionship as you exercise. I'd make a healthy meal or snack and invite her to share it with me and not give her a hard time if she didn't like it.

Seriously, nobody likes to be a Project. An INTP of all people should realize how odious such behavior is to the victim.
 

Arclight

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The person I have in mind is an ISFJ who's been overweight for almost 20 years, increasingly so with age. She's in her mid 50s and, like a lot of overweight people, works at a stressful desk job and has no other hobbie but watch TV and have snacks. She's a real hobbit, loves her comforts and pleasures and hates new and strenuous things. And like all SJs she's very routine and comfort zone based. She does not like to change things, she doesn't like to re-evaluate anything. She also hates exercise. It's gotten to the point where we (her family) are open and directive about wanting her to exercise for her health. No one's enough of a pig to use the F word to her face except her ENTJ husband (who's in denial about being a similar situation). All this does is depress her.
She hates her size so she does want to loose weight. She made a big step a while ago by joining a gym, but by now, of course, she's given it up. We used to make her go walking in the evening but that has stopped now also because everyone is so busy. she REFUSES to do anything by herself. She is also sick a lot of the time, or just says she is. I've tried a lot of direct and indirect moves and they've worked but only for a while. I've confronted her head on, told her that she doesn't have much choice in this anymore because no one in her family wants to let her get sick, and she complies and tells me her plans but she never follows through. I can't be there with her, holding her hand and stroking her hair while she does a few bar bell reps. But apparently it's nessessary. She is very hard to motivate. She is so unbelievabley passive agressive and fickle. I've noticed that if someone else has a snack, she will inevitabley do so as well. I'm a bit puzzeled by her diet. I don't see what she eats most of the time but this is what i know. She's drinks a lot of coffe and coke, skips breakfast, eats empty crappy snack food for meals such as seafood extender, crackers with peanut butter on them, etc. At times, it seems she eats like a near anneorexic but then where is all this weight comming from?
I always push her to go back to the gym, to go for a walk, to stop buying junk food (her pantry is gradually improving), to stop getting up at night and snacking, to eat properly at meal times, etc. I'm spend a lot of time on my fitness and I deliberatley eat well, which i noticed has influenced my families attitude towards health, but it's not enough.

People who smoke will suddenly stop after a shocking doctors evaluation, even though people have been pushing them to stop for years. How do i get this kind of thing happen to someone who's overweight. What does it take to flip the switch for an overweight person and ISFJ? Has any one had any sucess with people like her?

Maybe she is happy?

I work with a guy who is diabetic and about 100lbs overweight (45kg)
Every day I watch him eat 5-10 slices bacon and drink 2-4 beers after work (work in a pub)
I brought it up to him once.

He says .. "I am going to die anyway(he is 54), so I might as well die doing the things I love doing"
So I have never said anything since. It's his life

Maybe your family member has a similar attitude?
 

Ulaes

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excuse teh typos and grammar, it's a bit late for me.
I think it's futile to attempt to change another person's behavior, especially when they haven't explicitly enlisted your help.
she kind of has a bit. she asked me to go the gym with her, and i did, every time adn made her come with me when i went until she decided to stop. she asks me and others about health choices occasionally. She occasionally comes up with plans for exercise or a lifestyle change (she's been on and off jenny kraig for decades) but she lacks follow through.
The message i got when she asked me to join the gym with her, was that she wanted me to continue supporting her.
she wants to loose weight but it's an uphil battle because of her lifestyle.

She's an adult and the choices she makes are her own. It's okay to tell her how you feel and ask if there is anything you can do to help. It's okay to refuse to buy her snack cakes and invite her to go for a walk/work out with you with you.

Beyond that, no matter how much you want to, there isn't anything you can do. She is legally competent and responsible for herself. It is her decision and yes, it would also be her decision if she were using drugs because she is an adult. Even if you were a professional, you wouldn't have any business taking her on as a client because your relationship is too close for you to be objective.

If we are incurably at odds, it has nothing to do with type because I get along with my INTP husband very well -- precisely because respecting the autonomy of others is one of my cardinal rules. It's about respect and not setting yourself up as some kind of superior authority who has the right (moral obligation?) to control them for their own good.
i wasn't thinking that it was type related.
I dont feel like a superior authority. At a point a while ago, i just decided that i refused to let her problem perpetuate and i'd do whatever it took to fix it. that's when i started getting a bit pushier and much more proactive. It controls her life and I was going to try and be an agent of change.
She hates the way she is but has gotten no where by herself. she gets dragged down by other things ot much, work, stress, etc. I'm trying to make it so she doesn't have to fight such a strong current to get in shape.


How I would handle it? I would try to avoid making her feel guilt or shame -- I've only ever known those two nasty feelings to make things like this worse. I would try to make sure she knows that I love her no matter how much she weighs. If she has made some kind of progress (assuming she chooses to make healthier choices) I would praise her for it -- tell her she looks good when she looks good, whether she's lost weight or not. I would ask her if she'd like to be my walking/gym, etc partner and enjoy the companionship as you exercise. I'd make a healthy meal or snack and invite her to share it with me and not give her a hard time if she didn't like it.
i do all that! Although sometimes i get frustrated and tell her 'don't buy that'. That'd make her feel guiltly and embarrassed. I've been shopping with her, she loads up bad stuff. It's not so much for her as it is for her ENTJ husband, he's a sweet tooth and she really wants to do right by him because he yells when he talks, he imposes his needs on others and he trows trantrums which makes her crumble. He's the main consumer of these things, but it's easier to take food when it's right under your nose, so he drags her down too. He's only just started ot have a weight problem recently as he's moved from a labour intensive job to one where he sits down for hours on end. Now it's all catching up with him.

Seriously, nobody likes to be a Project. An INTP of all people should realize how odious such behavior is to the victim.

i think the OP came off the wrong way. that attitude is just how i wrote it. Me being firm handed with her are moments of desperation. those conversations are usually hard for me and the bad thing is that i'm naturally abrasive and direct with my words. i can now see that i need to be more aware of not overstepping my jurisdiction, i absolutly do NOT want to make her feel worse.
 

Ulaes

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Maybe she is happy?

I work with a guy who is diabetic and about 100lbs overweight (45kg)
Every day I watch him eat 5-10 slices bacon and drink 2-4 beers after work (work in a pub)
I brought it up to him once.

He says .. "I am going to die anyway(he is 54), so I might as well die doing the things I love doing"
So I have never said anything since. It's his life

Maybe your family member has a similar attitude?

no, she hates being overweight. it makes her depressed and self conscious. that's why i push her to exercise. she's even told me that she tells her friends at work that i'm the main driver behind her new habits. she seemed appreciative. i took it as a sign that she wanted and needed a bit of directiveness (but i don't bully her). it's her motivation. i make it out to be a bit of quality time between us as well. i give her the impression that the walk is mostly for me because it helps my muscles loosen from all my running and cycling (which is true) , and she is usually happy about coming along.
i bought her a heart rate watch to help her motivation and for a while it worked. i had one as well and told her about heart rate zones, so it helped with the mood of the thing although i used ot pester to get up to the aerobic rate while walking.
 
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Amargith

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I'm pretty sure that the ENTJ coming down on her like that also kinda sends her overeating into overdrive, due to stress-eating. Not sure you'll be able to help her without also addressing their relationship.
 

Chaotic Harmony

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Hmm... When I was uncomfortable with my weight... The last place I wanted to go was the gym. I was so self conscious around all the buff skinny people there... I felt like they were all laughing at me, even though they weren't even looking my way. It wasn't until I got a trainer that I utilized my gym membership. And then I finally started losing weight and tightening up.

Have you tried to convince her to replace her junk food snacks with healthy snacks? See if you can get her to eat fruits instead of candy...veggies instead of chips... Try getting her to drink more water instead of sodas. That alone might help her shed some water weight... Which would probably make about a 10-15 pound difference on the scale. Which may be enough to jump start her motivation to keep going.
 

cafe

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Your intentions are good and I know it's really hard to watch someone you love self-destruct, but she really is the only one who can help herself and she might choose not to do that. It's too bad and it's horrible that her husband treats her that way (how depressing and demoralizing would that be?), but we all have to make our own choices. All others can do is try to be supportive, which is what you've tried to do. Just love her, enjoy her, try to keep yourself from getting too stressed out by all this. It truly isn't your responsibility.

Basically, you're in a kind of co-dependent situation and it's not good for you. You may have to deal with it similarly to how a healthy family member of an alcoholic needs to deal with their situation. Al-Anon suggests a kind of detachment.
 

Ulaes

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thanks for the responses. i'm going to sleep now so i'll get back to this thread later on in the week.
 

Synapse

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Yeah I have to agree with Cafe, that while the intentions are good to want to see change in her because you care about her health. The approach is going to stress her out much more and she is likely to react by overeating even more to compensate for the stress and pressure she is under by everyone. For the expectation to change to fit other peoples image of where she should be in regards to her health would make her feel even more unhappy than she already is. Personally rewarding her telling her she is trying rather than being critical towards her is far better than creating a fear response to restructure her diet. In that way she might be more able to want to start than not. After all when we gain a negative association with exercise and food then the desire to want to is gone.
 

swordpath

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You can't make anyone do anything. If she wants to lose weight, she will; otherwise, all you can do is make sure she understands the risks of being obese.
 

disregard

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Someone has to want it for him/herself to change their lifestyle. You can prod them into action for a short while, but they will bounce back.
 

Unkindloving

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There are a number of things to consider when it comes to someone who has weight to lose and isn't losing it.
Mental state and perspective plays one of the biggest roles in the process. Part of her may want to lose weight and know she needs to, but part of her might not be ready to try for a variety of reasons. You mentioned the diet being bad due to her living circumstances and other's snacking. This is so related to a person's mental state that it's ridiculous. It can be subconscious and seem like nothing, but it takes a lot fo go against when you're compromised in such a way. I have the first bit of this problem, so I've gone on destruction mode in an attempt to rid my homeplace of bad foods, even if it means I eat some of them to get rid of them quickly. It takes keeping such foods away or gradually instilling and reinforcing willpower. My INFP friend deals with the latter, so I offer her healthier foods when others are eating or move plates out of sight so she isn't tempted.
There's also the state of mind where she may not believe she can get healthier. It's extremely hard to look at yourself on a daily basis and imagine that your issues with yourself are gone. Perhaps she can't picture herself at a healthy weight and is overwhelmed by the prospect, even if she discusses otherwise. To overcome this, I'd suggest showing her progress pictures or giving her a link to one of these sites http://www.mybodygallery.com/ or http://www.sparkpeople.com/ so she can attempt to see what is realistic and get motivated through external sources.
Also, assess if she is beating herself up over it, even when she is trying. This is probably one of the biggest issues in attempting to lose weight. People think that being negative toward themselves is a great motivator, but it backfires more often than not. This causes people to give up quickly because they kill all of their self confidence and drive for betterment. It even affects the people who do make progress, as a lot of them can't feel satisfied with what they've accomplished.

Like others have said, help her set small goals and set up her ability to motivate herself and become ready in her own way. You can only do so much.
At a point, it may even call for a bit of tough love, but not in a derogatory way. The tough love is more so asking her is she is happy at this weight and what the speedbump is. If it is worth it. Pros/Cons. Etc. These things are the ones that can spark that realization and drive in someone.
 

Randomnity

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What cafe and Tallulah (and others) said - you can't pressure her into doing it, and she's going to resent you for it whether or not you "succeed".

Some things to think about:

-drastic lifestyle changes tend to fail. Small steps will be less stressful and therefore more successful (e.g. make 1 healthy meal a week instead of eating out 7 days)

-I bet she'd like a community pilates/yoga/dance/whatever class, then she can get the social aspect she wants and it'll be encouragement to show up every week. especially if a family member will join with her (and come ON, I know perfectly well you aren't all in perfect health, there's no need to treat her like a charity project - do it for yourself too)

-if she's seeing that physical activity isn't a part of her family's lives, she's going to be discouraged and depressed that "nobody else has to". Once you're involved in active, fun things, invite her along. even for a nature walk or something. your posts imply to me that you're all treating it like a chore instead of an opportunity for family bonding and entertainment

-she's getting the sense from everyone that exercise is boring, miserable, and she's being forced into it (by you guys and her weight). loosen up a little and focus on fun activities instead of the boring usual things like running endlessly. there's LOTS of fun things to do that can keep you active. and invite her but don't make snarky comments when she turns you down. That's her right.

-I wouldn't really pressure her along the food lines. it's really not your business and it's not going to be productive - do you think she doesn't know big macs are unhealthy?
 

Thalassa

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I'm pretty sure that the ENTJ coming down on her like that also kinda sends her overeating into overdrive, due to stress-eating. Not sure you'll be able to help her without also addressing their relationship.

I totally agree with you on this.
 

prplchknz

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I think if I were her, I'd ramp up the bad eating habits and maybe add some smoking and drinking in excess in hopes of escaping my horrid, meddling, self-righteous family that much sooner.
yah, i agree with this.
 

Vasilisa

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I'm going to mention something that will likely be shocking and controversial. Gastric bypass or gastric banding.

I had to work with an individual who had qualities which negatively affected her health. She has a lazy attitude towards all things (including meal preparation, purchasing and planning) is close-minded about the taste of nutritious food, loathes exercise and is open about it, and used to be very obese. She told me frankly about her days of ordering large pizzas to her home and eating it all herself. She did strike it lucky and was able to take advantage of gastric bypass surgery covered by health insurance. She talked to me about it a lot, and I knew nothing about it so it was kind of interesting to learn about. There are risks involved and very big changes to the nutritional needs of the patient. But honestly I can't imagine anything that would have helped her like that did. Someone told me about his uncle, who had gastric bypass surgery and managed to gain all the weight back. Its hard to believe, but evidently it is possible if the physical changes do absolutely nothing to alter the mental habits. But from what that woman told me, the physical changes constrain most patients habits enough to allow weight loss to occur. She did not have the subsequent operation to remove the excess skin, which left her still rather deformed. But her yet even more disagreeable sister had both surgeries. Sadly nothing so cosmetic can fix the deformed spirits of these women, but the gastric bypass surgeries have improved their qualities of life a lot.

I have no stake in anyone getting gastric bypass, my only knowledge of it comes from probably the most toxic person I have ever had to interact with regularly. Take from it what you will. Obviously, physical changes can be easier than the spiritual/psychological ones. I know you wish you could help your family member make that positive transformation from the inside out. You have my sympathy.
 
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