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thyroid questions

Jae Rae

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TSH test

Bottom line is do you feel ok? Blood tests when dealing with thyroid (or any hormone for that matter) are poor indicators of health. Blood tests for thyroid are notoriously bad, especially when you're being treated. This is one of those fields of medicine where you used to be better treated 50 years ago.

Edited to add: have you ever had your vitamin D levels tested? Do you take Vitamin D?

Hello, now you've got me wondering. How are the tests different from 50 years ago? Are you saying the present blood test isn't very sensitive? I have low energy and get SAD, although I don't have the brittle hair and nails someone else mentioned.

Jae Rae
 

targobelle

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As someone who's Been There, Done That, I feel for you, Targo. Are you in BC? If yes, and you have a doctor who's admitted you have a thyroid problem, then you're ahead of the game. BC doctors and hormones = usually a bad scene.

Weight loss isn't rocket science, if you cut the calories you lose weight (not necessarily fat, but weight does move). I spent years killing myself with exercise and diet trying to maintain my weight; I thought I just needed to work harder.

From what I recall you're active and you're pretty young. If you're having THAT much difficulty with weight loss then you can assume Something Ain't Right.

Questions for you, they may seem silly, but humour me.

Do you have 'abnormal' cholesterol results?
Do you have problems sleeping? Or are you tired when you wake up?
Have you noticed your eyebrows getting thinner?
Do you have irregular periods?

Bottom line is do you feel ok? Blood tests when dealing with thyroid (or any hormone for that matter) are poor indicators of health. Blood tests for thyroid are notoriously bad, especially when you're being treated. This is one of those fields of medicine where you used to be better treated 50 years ago.

Edited to add: have you ever had your vitamin D levels tested? Do you take Vitamin D? If you don't and if you do live in BC it's something to seriously consider.


you're amazing THANK YOU! My doctor is great I can walk into her office and say DrWang I think blah blah blah because blah blah blah should we look into that and she will say alright.... she's been my DR for 12 yrs now I only go in and ask stuff when I am certain there is a problem or when I have concerns.

I don't take a vitamin D supplement but i do drink milk and am outside often. My body is pretty good at craving it's deficiencies.

I do know that my iron levels typically run low I have had those tested. Did you know that you can get an energy rush from Iron supplements?

As for your questions


Do you have 'abnormal' cholesterol results? being 33 I haven't had it tested

Do you have problems sleeping? Or are you tired when you wake up? Yes sleep has always been an issue for me.... never want to sleep yet am always tired.

Have you noticed your eyebrows getting thinner? I pluck them pretty thin as it is..... and i am just super hairy to begin with so I don't know.

Do you have irregular periods? they are starting to become that way since having my 4th child not super irregular but not consistent either.


it's the weight loss that is my red flag
 

targobelle

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my big concern is that 3 yrs ago over the summer of 2004 I made a big effort to lose some weight I was walking only, about an hour 3-5times a week and cutting back on my carb intake but not changing things over and still snacking as i do now and having my coffee way sweeter than it is now and way more of it. And over the course of the summer I lost 30lbs I was fasting 1 day a week as well for church but still I was drinking juices and broth so it wasn't a complete fast.

But here i am 3 yrs later working way harder and eating way better and in the course of 5 months I have lost only 20lbs and 15 of it was the 15 I had gained back over 3 yrs. It's discouraging and disheartening to say the least and so now I feel the need to dig for a medical reason so I don't feel crazy and so I feel vindicated in my efforts instead of thinking I am just not good enough....
 

Natrushka

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Hello, now you've got me wondering. How are the tests different from 50 years ago? Are you saying the present blood test isn't very sensitive? I have low energy and get SAD, although I don't have the brittle hair and nails someone else mentioned.

Jae Rae

Jae Rae, 50 years ago doctors gave you thyroid replacement hormone until you went hyper then backed you down to where you felt good. A very few good doctors use this method today, still, think of it as "optimal" vs. "normal".

Blood tests have a few problems, the primary one being that what is defined as 'normal' is skewed. In today's world "normal' contains sick people. Sensitivity isn't an issue, what is measured and what it is measured against, are.

Then you have doctors who test thyroid function with a TSH test - which isn't good for much other than first diagnosing auto immune thyroid disease. The 'normal' range for TSH runs anywhere from 0.2 - 5.5. That's because the group of 'normal' people contain 75 year old subclinical hypothyroid women. The range in progressive US labs has been changed to 0.2 - 2.7 (or there abouts, it has been narrowed a lot in the last few years). Bottom line from people who're being well treated, TSH is meaningless. I haven't had a TSH number for years (it was < 0.0001 last time it was tested).

As well, blood tests measure what's in your blood, not what's being used or what is useable. That's a big difference when it comes to normal vs optimal.

In your case, with the tiredness and the SAD, I would definitely look into vitamin D. It's been shown to be superior to light therapy for SAD and a very little known fact about vit D; it isn't a vitamin at all, it's a hormone precursor. It's also necessary for proper thyroid and progesterone hormone function.

Anyone living over a latitude of 40 degrees should be taking supplemental vitamin D. Just about every Canadian city is over 40 degrees latitude, btw.
 

Natrushka

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I don't take a vitamin D supplement but i do drink milk and am outside often. My body is pretty good at craving it's deficiencies.

I do know that my iron levels typically run low I have had those tested. Did you know that you can get an energy rush from Iron supplements?

Are you in BC? If you are - for some reason I think you are, don't know for sure though - then it would be physically impossible for you to make enough vit D from the sunlight available even if you danced outside on June 22nd naked from 11 - 3 pm. You might get a nasty burn though (not to mention what it might do for your popularity among the neighbours ;) )

From Weston Price (Vancouver is 49 degrees if memory serves):

In far northern or southern locations, latitudes 45 and higher, even summer sun is too weak to provide optimum levels of vitamin D.

As for food sources - if you're eating cod or drinking cod liver oil daily - or eating liver - it's hard to get 2,000 IUs of vit D from food.

Interesting about the iron. Ferritin is necessary for thyroid function. Just as necessary as vitamin D. And selenium. And iodine.


Do you have 'abnormal' cholesterol results? being 33 I haven't had it tested
I would lay money on it being abnormal. Which isn't alarming, just a sign of something else. High cholesterol ain't a risk factor for VCD, but inflammation is.

Do you have problems sleeping? Or are you tired when you wake up? Yes sleep has always been an issue for me.... never want to sleep yet am always tired.

That sounds right. Low iron / ferritin would contribute. Messed up sleep cycles affect hormones (not in a good way)

it's the weight loss that is my red flag

Honestly, that's respectable weight loss. I just think the means you need to go to in order to achieve it are extreme. I lose weight now restricting calories to around 1800 and doing 20 minutes cardio twice a week, two full body workouts (heavy mind you) a week. It used to take me 5 hours of cardio and four one hour weight workouts a week on 1200 cals to maintain. "Ain't Right"
 

targobelle

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yes i am in BC southern BC but BC just the same

Now are all vitamin D's created equal as i have a multi vitamin with D-Pantothenic 12.5mg (d-calcium pantothenate)
as well as Vitamin D 400 I.U
 

Natrushka

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my big concern is that 3 yrs ago over the summer of 2004 I made a big effort to lose some weight I was walking only, about an hour 3-5times a week and cutting back on my carb intake but not changing things over and still snacking as i do now and having my coffee way sweeter than it is now and way more of it. And over the course of the summer I lost 30lbs I was fasting 1 day a week as well for church but still I was drinking juices and broth so it wasn't a complete fast.

But here i am 3 yrs later working way harder and eating way better and in the course of 5 months I have lost only 20lbs and 15 of it was the 15 I had gained back over 3 yrs. It's discouraging and disheartening to say the least and so now I feel the need to dig for a medical reason so I don't feel crazy and so I feel vindicated in my efforts instead of thinking I am just not good enough....

You're not crazy, and more importantly, you're not LAZY.

My gut says the fast you were doing in 2004 made more of a difference than you may know. Fasting improves insulin sensitivity - at a molecular level. A fast with broth, with some fats, even some protein, does the same (just avoid the carbs and it's a fast, keep the cals really low though, or it's just low carb :D )

Do you have any idea just how many calories you are eating? If not, FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal can help you figure out a few typical days. The calories aren't the only story, what they are made of matters. You need the protein grams and you need the essential fats, the rest depends on your genetic makeup and what makes you feel the most comfortable.
 

Natrushka

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yes i am in BC southern BC but BC just the same

Now are all vitamin D's created equal as i have a multi vitamin with D-Pantothenic 12.5mg (d-calcium pantothenate)
as well as Vitamin D 400 I.U

Vit D is either D2 or D3, one is synthetic (d2) one is not. You always want to supplement with D3. And if you can get the lovely Dr.Wang to test you... that would be even better. The test is called "25(OH)D" and I know for a fact it's done there (and covered).

Read the weston price article on Vitamin D. You'll see some interesting symptoms of low levels.
 

targobelle

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well I see my account is still there... I haven't used it in a long time I really should look at it again

thanks
 

Natrushka

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Hmm, who makes it? Does it say cholecalciferol (D3) or maybe ergocalciferol (D2)?
 

Jae Rae

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Jae Rae, 50 years ago doctors gave you thyroid replacement hormone until you went hyper then backed you down to where you felt good. A very few good doctors use this method today, still, think of it as "optimal" vs. "normal".

Blood tests have a few problems, the primary one being that what is defined as 'normal' is skewed. In today's world "normal' contains sick people. Sensitivity isn't an issue, what is measured and what it is measured against, are.

Then you have doctors who test thyroid function with a TSH test - which isn't good for much other than first diagnosing auto immune thyroid disease. The 'normal' range for TSH runs anywhere from 0.2 - 5.5. That's because the group of 'normal' people contain 75 year old subclinical hypothyroid women. The range in progressive US labs has been changed to 0.2 - 2.7 (or there abouts, it has been narrowed a lot in the last few years). Bottom line from people who're being well treated, TSH is meaningless. I haven't had a TSH number for years (it was < 0.0001 last time it was tested).

As well, blood tests measure what's in your blood, not what's being used or what is useable. That's a big difference when it comes to normal vs optimal.

In your case, with the tiredness and the SAD, I would definitely look into vitamin D. It's been shown to be superior to light therapy for SAD and a very little known fact about vit D; it isn't a vitamin at all, it's a hormone precursor. It's also necessary for proper thyroid and progesterone hormone function.

Thank you for the information. I ran into a friend who told me she'd had a normal test, but still felt tired. She went to a different doctor who checked other levels and she ended up on Armor (sp?). She feels a lot better.

Not to rant about HMOs, but I feel I get the bare minimum of care. Recently I went for a gyn. and I raised this issue with my nurse practitioner, but she said I was in range. My primary care doctor didn't flag my TSH result, just my cholesterol. The lesson is follow through, follow through, follow through.

I'm going to get some Vitamin D today. I live in a temperate area, not Canada, but it can't hurt.

Thanks again for the lead.

Jae Rae
 

Natrushka

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Thank you for the information. I ran into a friend who told me she'd had a normal test, but still felt tired. She went to a different doctor who checked other levels and she ended up on Armor (sp?). She feels a lot better.

Not to rant about HMOs, but I feel I get the bare minimum of care. Recently I went for a gyn. and I raised this issue with my nurse practitioner, but she said I was in range. My primary care doctor didn't flag my TSH result, just my cholesterol. The lesson is follow through, follow through, follow through.

I'm going to get some Vitamin D today. I live in a temperate area, not Canada, but it can't hurt.

Thanks again for the lead.

Jae Rae

You're fortunate to live in California, there are a number of very good doctors in CA.

A prime example of how much better off a thyroid patient was 50 years ago. The first sign you might be hypothyroid? High cholesterol.

P.S. To find your latitude you can punch your city in at the USGS.
 

targobelle

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well I just did a rough guesstimate of my caloric intake and it's about 1600 cals/day with my rough guesstimation of calories expelled in a day at 2800 that leaves 1200 excess calories a day doing nothing. Now of course there are days where I will consume more than 1600 calories and days when I don't exercise as hard b/c I am out and about doing other things.
 

Natrushka

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That, if it is a real deficit, is far too much. The longer you diet, the more of a deficit you create, the more your metabolism will compensate and slow. Typically that slow down is temporary, the body adjusts, figures there really isn't a famine on the way, and upregulates again. However, this isn't always the case for hypothyroids, and it certainly takes a lot longer to get back to normal maintenance (if you ever do).

Worse still, 'starvation' sends messages to the brain, which lowers TSH, to slow metabolism, which results in FT4 rising and FT3 lowering (because it doesn't get converted from T4 to T3). You go see a doctor because you're tired and you can't lose weight and he tests your TSH and maybe looks at your FT4 / T4 and 'poof' - you're normal.
 

Athenian200

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I am just curious if anyone around here know and thing about underactive thyroids? I ask b/c for some reason I have it in my mind that I may have a thyroid issue. My doctor had questioned it a few years ago but dismissed it at that time as being nothing, I didn't bring it up at all she did. That had to have been 4yrs ago now.

My biggest stumbling block has been because i have been working so hard to lose weight, harder than most people do and have lost only a fraction of the weight that many others do... so it just makes me wonder that is all. I have done limited research online and have found some more things about me that seem to fit, but realize that only a DR can and should diagnose such a thing

so I was checking to see what people know

I don't know much first hand, but this article talks about it in-depth... have a look.

Losing Weight with Hypothyroidism: How an Underactive Thyroid Can Affect Weight Loss

EDIT: Nevermind, it sounds like other people responded already... I really shouldn't have just responded to the first post, huh? Sorry, I tend to do that sometimes.
 

Sandy

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My Mom has hypothyroidism - however her first tests came out within normal ranges. After her doctor got her a second round of more in-depth tests, they found it. She chose not to take any more medications to control it, mainly because she is taking so many other medications, she doesn't want to take more (she's schizophrenic and takes a LOT of meds). I think she is just trying to control her intake.
 

Natrushka

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Sandy, do you think is someone were able to explain to her that thyroid hormones aren't medications it might help?

Even synthetic thyroid brands / formulations (synthroid, eltroxin, levothyroid, etc) are bioidentical to what the body makes. You're not taking a medication, you're taking what your body can't make (and needs).
 
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