To vaccinate or not to vaccinate?

[Ivy]

Also- chemical chelation is a valid, Western/allopathic medical treatment. For heavy metal poisoning. Which autism is not. And chelation is extremely risky. Similarly, Lupron is a valid, Western/allopathic medical treatment... for hormonally fed cancers and in the treatment of sex offenders.

 

[Lurker]

Umm....get your kids vaccinated. Need some reasons?

Measles:

Mumps:

Rubella:

Hepatitis B:

Personally, given the overwhelming benefits of immunizations being common knowledge, I consider eschewing childhood vaccinations as a form of neglect based on dangerous levels of ignorance plus poor judgment. But that's just my opinion.

I mean, it's kinda like denying global warming.

 

[Ivy]

This is the latest "granola" alternative to vaccines that is being promoted to parents who are confused about the etiology of autism and worried about vaccines:

Industrial chemical OSR#1 used as autism treatment - Los Angeles Times

An industrial chemical developed to help separate heavy metals from polluted soil and mining drainage is being sold as a dietary supplement by a luminary in the world of alternative autism treatments.

The supplement, called OSR#1, is described on the company website as an antioxidant not meant to treat any disease. But the site lists pharmacies and doctors who sell it to parents of children with autism, and the compound has been promoted to parents on popular autism websites.

This shit just makes me mad, guys. I'm a total granola mom. But this shit just makes me mad.

 

[Synapse]

Dunno maybe I'm just bored.

Toxicological & Environmental Chemistry

Thimerosal (ethylmercurithiosalicylic acid), an ethylmercury (EtHg)-releasing compound (49.55% mercury (Hg)), was used in a range of medical products for more than 70 years. Of particular recent concern, routine administering of Thimerosal-containing biologics/childhood vaccines have become significant sources of Hg exposure for some fetuses/infants. This study was undertaken to investigate cellular damage among in vitro human neuronal (SH-SY-5Y neuroblastoma and 1321N1 astrocytoma) and fetal (nontransformed) model systems using cell vitality assays and microscope-based digital image capture techniques to assess potential damage induced by Thimerosal and other metal compounds (aluminum (Al) sulfate, lead (Pb)(II) acetate, methylmercury (MeHg) hydroxide, and mercury (Hg)(II) chloride) where the cation was reported to exert adverse effects on developing cells. Thimerosal-associated cellular damage was also evaluated for similarity to pathophysiological findings observed in patients diagnosed with autistic disorders (ADs). Thimerosal-induced cellular damage as evidenced by concentration- and time-dependent mitochondrial damage, reduced oxidative-reduction activity, cellular degeneration, and cell death in the in vitro human neuronal and fetal model systems studied. Thimerosal at low nanomolar (nM) concentrations induced significant cellular toxicity in human neuronal and fetal cells. Thimerosal-induced cytoxicity is similar to that observed in AD pathophysiologic studies. Thimerosal was found to be significantly more toxic than the other metal compounds examined. Future studies need to be conducted to evaluate additional mechanisms underlying Thimerosal-induced cellular damage and assess potential co-exposures to other compounds that may increase or decrease Thimerosal-mediated toxicity.

Mercury on the Mind by Donald W. Miller, Jr., MD

 

[Lurker]

Also, OP reminds me of people who worry more about dying in a plane crash than a car wreck. You know, always sweating the most unlikely event and ignoring (or something?) the quite likely stuff. Intuition error.

 

[Ivy]

Dunno maybe I'm just bored.

Immunizations: Misconception #11

However, there are several reasons why concerns about the use of thimerosal in vaccines are misguided:

• The amounts of mercury involved were very small.
• No link between mercury and autism has been proven. If the thimerosal in vaccines caused mercury poisoning, the symptoms would affect all parts of the nervous system.
• Autistic children do not have the movement disorders and peripheral nerve damage that that are characteristic of mercury poisoning.
• There is no scientific evidence or logical reason to believe that autism has a toxic cause.

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has compared the incidence of autism with the amount of thimerosal received from vaccines. Preliminary results indicated no change in autism rates relative to the amount of thimerosal a child received during the first six months of life (from 0 micrograms to greater than 160 micrograms). A weak association was found with thimerosal intake and certain neurodevelopmental disorders (such as attention deficit hyperactivity disorder) in one study, but was not found in a subsequent study [4]. Additional studies are planned, but it is unlikely that any significant association will be found.

An Institute of Medicine (IOM) committee, which issued a comprehensive report in October 2001, found no proof of a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder, speech or language delays, or other neurodevelopmental disorders [5].

A study published in 2002 of infants who were 6 months of age or younger compared the levels of mercury in the blood, hair, urine, and stool of 40 who received vaccines containing thimerosal and 20 who received vaccines without thimerosal. The study found:

• Mercury levels in blood and urine were low in all infants studied and in many cases too small to measure. There was no observed dose-dependent relationship between the level of thimerosal received through vaccination and the level of mercury in the body.
• Mercury levels in blood did not exceed, at any time, the blood levels that correspond to Environmental Protection Agency guidelines for exposure.
• Mercury levels in the stool of infants receiving vaccines containing thimerosal were relatively high compared to mercury levels in the stool of infants who were not exposed to thimerosal, providing evidence that mercury from thimerosal is eliminated in the stool of infants.

The researchers concluded that, "Administration of vaccines containing thiomersal does not seem to raise blood concentrations of mercury above safe values in infants." [6].

The use of chelation therapy to treat autistic children is completely bogus. Three successful lawsuits have been filed by parents who believe they were victimized in this way [7].

[youtube="1tqxzWdKKu8"].[/youtube]

 

[ajblaise]

For some reason, all the vaccination conspiracy theory web sites look like they were put together back in 1997 by 12 year olds. It's messed up, every one is terrible. It just makes you think these people are a bunch of idiots.

New World Order 101: URGENT WARNING: H5N1 DNA in Flu Vaccine
Conspiracy Planet - AIDS - AIDS: The WHO Vaccine Conspiracy & Monkey Business
Population Control, New World Order Style
THE VACCINATION HOAX
VIDEO: The Swine Flu Vaccine Conspiracy

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

^I haven't checked them out, but I'm sure you are right. It reminds me of when my religious right neighbor zealout sent me an email expounding against the US voting on some law to make child abuse illegal via some UN proposal, which nearly every other country has signed, except us. The websites she sent were all quacky and paranoid. She was afraid in all of it, that she'd lose her right to spank her kids, because that is very important to her. The 'law' wouldn't even have been enforcable, it was just all a political stance, but the way some groups can get worked up is just........interesting to say the least.

I don't feel like that is how the OP presented the question. And I am not like that either, nor are most of the families I know, and/or have counseled. I LOVE the CDC, and hope to be a disease investigator someday. But there is a middle ground to be had, People. I am not about to put 30 foreign injections in my kids before the age of 2. Maybe some kids need that, but mine don't. I'm not a moron. Most of us are just informed parents, looking for the best alternative.

 

[nonsequitur]

Excellent article wrt vaccinations in The Age.

 

[Ivy]

A.g.a, part of the reason your children don't need the vaccines is that the rest of us get them. They are riding on herd immunity. But because vaccination rates are declining, some of the diseases are starting to return. We may not always have the luxury of thinking of this theoretically.

 

[AphroditeGoneAwry]

A.g.a, part of the reason your children don't need the vaccines is that the rest of us get them. They are riding on herd immunity. But because vaccination rates are declining, some of the diseases are starting to return. We may not always have the luxury of thinking of this theoretically.

I agree that is the case. But even if MMR illnesses were more prevalent in my region, I still would not get the MMR vaccine. Same goes with Hib, Hep B, Some may call that child abuse, but I do not feel that having some childhood diseases, like chickenpox, would be that detrimental to my children. And I feel like in our particular case, their environment is condusive to limited exposure, and quick healing. The government looks at things form a public health standpoint, which is necessary. But my kids are not a number to me, and I am capable of determining necessary and unnecessary vaccinations. We are not part of the herd, although I understand most are.

List I would not do even if the disease was more prevalent in my area:

Hep B
Rotavirus
Pertussis
Pneumococcal
Flu
Varicella
Hep A
Meningococcal


A huge consideration is whether kids are in daycare centers and schools. Mine are not. There are a bunch of us.

 

[jenocyde]

There is a huge outbreak of mumps in the Hasidic part of my neighborhood right now, that is spreading to the rest of the neighborhood like wildfire since vaccinations are on the decrease ever since the autism scare. It just looks so painful, these kids, I feel bad for them... I mean, it's not like chicken pox.

I saw a pregnant woman with it and felt so bad for her.

 

[jenocyde]

Oh, and the outbreak started in a school where all the boys had already had the vaccine...

 

[Ivy]

Hope your kids don't accidentally expose a pregnant woman to rubella then. My kids aren't a number to me either, but we are part of a community. We're not off the grid homesteaders. Even then, if you ever go out in public, you're part of the herd.

 

[Qre:us]

Ivy, thank you for the excellent points you brought up regarding the misinformation about autism spectrum disorder (from mercury poisoning, to MMR vaccination, to blah blah blah). It reminds me of Jenny McCarthy's ridiculous statement of how she CURED HER SON OF AUTISM.

One big recent issue surrounding vaccinations was due to the possible linkage between Thiomersal (a preservative for vaccines) and development of autistic-like symptoms. This has been negated as a linkage of causation becauase ASD is not a mitochondrial disorder, hence, there is no logic of why thiomersal would be an issue.

Also, like Lux said, the rate of increase in diagnosis is because today, unlike 50 years ago, there is hella lot more awareness about the disorder, as well as, more refined diagnosing techniques.

Finally, another excellent point by Ivy, is the "herd immunity". Those who are opting out of vaccinations for their children, of course, it is their right to do so, but, they are relying implicitly on the rest of the herd to be healthy, hence, x, y, z disease is not a likely concern for them.

If everyone stopped getting the vaccines, then, the concern for x, y, z disease as a real possibility in a given population increases exponentially and significantly (p=0.05), given the likelihood of exposures, rate of cross-infection, incubation period, success rate of treatment being inverse (lower) than rate of cross-infection & incubation (containment of disease). A very real issue is also the general population's comparatively weak immune system, than say, someone in West Africa. Because we're too "clean".

I am quite skeptic of those who say they get "informed" about vaccines and to what degree their knowledge acquisition is from valid sources versus hype.

For example, the program for the HPV vaccination in Canada for young girls, given what I know of it so far, wouldn't recommend.

Not all vaccinations = good. It's about the process of getting informed, and, as a reaction to the hype FOR vaccination, not falling into the trap of going to the opposite spectrum, by falling into the hype AGAINST vaccination.

 

[cafe]

Our kids were vaccinated. When you are poor-ass medicaid recipients you jump through the hoops and keep your head down, you know? If I was doing it again now with private insurance, I'd probably do more homework on the subject. OTOH, most of the diseases we are vaccinated against are pretty horrible and I'd really not want my kids to get them, or like Ivy says, for them to make a wide-scale comeback.

We discovered when I was pregnant with my fourth child that my immunity to rubella had faded and I was lucky to live in a society where I wasn't exposed to it and my child born dead or deformed. I feel like I have kind of a duty to contribute to that kind of society by me and my kids not going around being Typhoid Marys.

As far as the autism thing goes, my husband's maternal side pretty much all acts autistic, for generations back from what I can tell. If my husband was in elementary school now, I'd bet the farm they'd consider him 'on the spectrum' and it's no big surprise that our sons are on it, too. They are high functioning, so I don't consider it a big deal, but I do kinda feel for 'normal' people who get some kind of recessive autism surprise and I feel even more sorry for AS kids that get stuck with parents that freak out about them not being normal.

 

[Ivy]

Excellent article wrt vaccinations in The Age.

Just read this one. Great article.

Ivy, thank you for the excellent points you brought up regarding the misinformation about autism spectrum disorder (from mercury poisoning, to MMR vaccination, to blah blah blah). It reminds me of Jenny McCarthy's ridiculous statement of how she CURED HER SON OF AUTISM.

One big issue surrounding vaccinations was due to the possible linkage between Thiomersal (a preservative for vaccines) and development of autistic-like symptoms. This has been negated as a linkage of causation becauase ASD is not a mitochondrial disorder, hence, there is no logic of why thiomersal would be an issue.

Also, like Lux said, the rate of increase in diagnosis is because today, unlike 50 years ago, there is hella lot more awareness about the disorder, as well as, more refined diagnosing techniques.

Finally, another excellent point by Ivy, is the "herd immunity". Those who are opting out of vaccinations for their children, of course, it is their right to do so, but, they are relying implicitly on the rest of the herd to be healthy, hence, x, y, z disease is not a likely concern for them.

If everyone stopped getting the vaccines, then, the concern for x, y, z disease as a real possibility in a given population increases exponentially and significantly (p=0.05), given the likelihood of exposures, rate of cross-infection, incubation period, success rate of treatment being inversely higher than rate of cross-infection & incubation (containment of disease). A very real issue is also the general population's comparatively weak immune system, than say, someone in West Africa. Because we're too "clean".

I am quite skeptic of those who say they get "informed" about vaccines and to what degree their knowledge acquisition is from valid sources versus hype.

Very well said. I remain undecided on the HPV vaccine for my daughter who is approaching the age when they recommend it. Her pediatrician is neutral on it. What do you know about it Q?

 

[Ivy]

Bit of a funny Cracked.com article that touches on the issue. A good quote:

When it comes to matters of opinion or personal beliefs, it is absolutely the duty of the news media to report both sides (and any extra sides there may be, on those rare odd occasions when there are somehow more than two). It doesn't matter which one they agree with, they need to acknowledge the fact that some people think gay marriage is a right and others think the gays are forming a unicorn army that will kill us all.

When it comes to matters of fact, however, they absolutely do not have that duty. Particularly when it comes to technical or scientific matters where it takes somebody with training to speak knowledgably on the subject.

If we're talking about if, say, vaccines cause autism, we need to hear from scientists. That's a scientific issue. We do not need to hear from Jenny McCarthy or Jim fucking Carrey, in the name of giving "both sides." Jim and Jenny don't get a side. They have no background in the subject, and it's one that requires fucking background.

Sure, they can talk about poisonous vaccines to Oprah or whoever is sitting next to them at the Lakers game all they want. They have freedom of speech. That freedom does not guarantee them a seat on a panel of experts.

And this

Fire Marshal Bill discusses vaccines and autism on The Huffington Post : Respectful Insolence


I repeat:

 

[Ivy]

And furthermore:

 

[ergophobe]

Interesting thread. I wouldn't question most basic vaccinations given to children including polio, small pox, meningitis...these have been around for decades and have been shown to help eradicate the diseases in many communities. That's evidence enough. I'd rather my child didn't get any of these diseases.

Most vaccines go through years of testing and many thousands of trial cases before they're put out in the market. Many of these vaccinations are also provide free by governments in and to the developing world and/or by the World Health organization since they're considered that important. Different strategies to encourage pharma companies to develop better vaccines are discussed here:
Push and Pull : The New Yorker

I'd agree with the general sentiment about being vigilant and doing research on suggested vaccinations (Babylon Candle, Q and Ivy, your points on reliable sources are well taken). Personally, I don't know about the general flu vaccine that's doled out every year since there are so many strains out there and people with the vaccine still seem to be able to get another strain.