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  1. #31
    only bites when provoked
    Join Date
    Apr 2007


    Dark Razor: Your assumptions are based on fallacies.

    1) Cooking/fire is what divides humans from animals.
    2) Certain foods are better for humans than others. Many beans are edible without any preparation, though most are not palatable. Humans are not well suited for consuming simple grain starches and all but Europeans are poorly suited for dairy products (even this group only tolerates dairy).
    3) Agriculture is new and not fully tested. We actually ate nuts (high in energy and fat), fruits/berries (high in energy, low in fat), various vegetables (roots (main source of starch), leaves, etc), and meats (mostly fish, followed by red meats, and distantly followed by fowl - most humans preferred to live near water both due to needing water and the fact it contained food). Grains were never consumed by humans before agriculture.
    I 100%, N 88%, T 88%, J 75%

    Disclaimer: The above is my opinion and mine alone, it does not mean I cannot change my mind, nor does it guarantee that my comments are related to any deep-seated convictions. Take everything I say with a whole snowplow worth of salt and call me in the morning, if you can.

  2. #32
    Mamma said knock you out Mempy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007


    "The changes that have occurred in the Western diet are far too rapid. Our genes have been stable, but our diet has not."
    You know, I was thinking along the same lines just yesterday. I thought to myself that stone-agers probably ate only meat, berries, etc, and that maybe that's what we're meant to eat.

    It surprised me at first that they're doing research on this. I never would have thought it. But it does make a lot of sense, because studying our ancestors will give us information about ourselves.

    Another ironic thing is that, of all the diets I've ever tried (about a handful), only cutting out grains and starches has worked. I eat all meat, all produce, and I exercise. I just started this diet at the beginning of the week, and I've already lost three pounds! I'm excited. It's almost like waving a magic wand.

    I think the cavemen had the right idea.

    My question is, when will our genes mutate so that we can burn up starches?

  3. #33
    Pareo cattus Natrushka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007


    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Razor View Post
    ISo you're told to eat less "saturated fat" what this actually means is that you should eat less meat and dairy...
    You're told to eat less 'saturated fat' and fat in general because of a politician by the name of Senator George McGovern who made it a crusade in the late 1960 and early 1970s.

    The soft science of dietary fat

    The most difficult part seems to be the balancing of food, as now we have everything available in basically infinite numbers. I think we should look at what was naturally scarce and what was available, and if we do that then we see that the classic food pyramid actually gives a fairly good picture of that, most available were starchy foods such as roots and grains, next are fruits and berries (those are easier to come by but they can't be stored well and are usually low in energy, so grains are superior in terms of assuring sustained survivability where subsistence agriculture is present.)
    Just as the foods that are available today are not the same as those available then, the foods that were available then and are still available now are not the same as they were. Foods are enginered to be sweeter. The soils they are grown in are depleted of the minerals that used to be plentiful, thus the foods are also lacking in the minerals we count on them for. Selenium. Magnesium.

    Also, the introduction of grains and then the move to processing of foods has had an impact on our health that is only just being realized. We used to eat the whole animal. The animal ate other animals and grasses and berries, and whatever - but it ate real food, too. The quality and quanitity of minerals, vitamins and macro nutrients were different then. A very big difference now, thanks largely to grains and processing, is the overabudance of omega 6 fatty acids. Omega-6 is an essential fatty acid (EFA) meaning your body cannot make it, itself - it must be obtained from the food you eat. It's vital to your health, which makes it seem like a good thing. It is. But too much of a good thing is a very bad thing in this instance.

    Current estimates place the ratio of Omega-6 to Omega-3 (the other EFA) at between 20:1 and 8:1. The optimal ratio is close to 3:1. The two EFAs have almost the opposite effects on the body. Omega-6 is pro inflammatory, Omege-3 is anti-inflammatory. Studies show that symptoms of autoimmune disease, depression, CVD can be lessened and sometimes reversed when Omega 3 fatty acids are used to correct the imbalance that exists in populations.

    which shows why it is no wonder that eating meat every day is bad for you.
    Can you please provide some proof of this statement?

    The concept of eating whole foods is a good one. The concept of eating less food is a good one. Balance. "Natural". "Unprocessed". All good. Fat and meat are natural and unprocessed.

    This book might help, Pollan does a much better job explaining than I do

    The Ominivore's Dilemma.

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  4. #34
    Senior Member Dark Razor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007


    I wanted to reply to Wolf and also to you now, but I am very busy and dont know if I will have time to, you both have good points though, I hope I will be able to address them.

  5. #35



    I am reading about the paleo diet at the moment, have been reading about it and trying to apply what I've read for a bit.

    Its funny how this is kind of an old idea now when its not that old really.
    All for ourselves, and nothing for other people, seems, in every age of the world, to have been the vile maxim of the masters of mankind.
    Chapter IV, p. 448. - Adam Smith, Book 3, The Wealth of Nations

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