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Tribalism and TypoC

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Jonny

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I've been curious about the relatively recent surge in tribalism since the 2016 election. It is clear to many of us who frequent the politics sub-forum, both as contributors and readers, that here at TypoC we're not immune to this phenomenon. But, unlike our daily interactions in the "real world", here at TypoC we have a wealth of data at our fingertips to shed light on this very issue. By analyzing meta-data on the interactions between forum members, we can better see what lies under the surface.

So, over the past few days I've been gathering data from the politics sub-forum in a similar(ish) fashion to what was done here: What your posting habits say about you!

In particular, I've focused on 5 major threads:

  • Trump Administration
  • United States of America - General Thread
  • TRUMP 2016!!!!
  • Europe - general thread
  • 3rd wave feminism

As of today, I haven't really done much analysis, and I've only gathered very simplistic data like poster names and "likes". However, even this information has been illuminating. Within these threads are just over 16,000 posts by close to 300 members, with a 6,700 likes spread between about 4,500 posts.

As a simple way to visualize these factions, I decided to extract groups of Likers and Posters. The Likers are those members who liked the most posts within the data set, concentrated between the fewest number of members who posted; for example, if you liked at least 50 different posts, and the members you liked had an average of about 3 likes from you each, you were included in this group. The Posters are those members with the most likes in the data set, concentrated between the fewest number of members who liked them; in other words, if you had at least 30 likes and you received roughly 4 likes from each member who liked you, you were included in this group.

The reason for including the concentration parameter is to ignore those members who have like 100 likes from 100 different users, since they would likely not represent a "faction" of the forum.

From this information, I created a matrix for the numbers of likes given by each of the Likers identified above to each of the Posters identified above. I then, very roughly, normalized these numbers to account for the fact that some Likers liked more than others, and some Posters were liked more than others. Below is what came out (after a bit of manual sorting). White colors denote no or very few likes, while green and blue represent increasingly significant concentrations of likes. Squares denoted with an X are for those members who were included in both groups; they're colored blue because I assume (maybe naively, haha) that everyone likes themselves.

NOTE, IF YOU ARE INCLUDED IN THIS MATRIX I AM IN NO WAY SUGGESTING YOU ARE IN A TRIBE. YOU WERE SIMPLY ONE OF THE MEMBERS IDENTIFIED VIA THE CRITERIA MENTIONED ABOVE. I DIDN'T PICK ANY MEMBER EXPLICITLY.

YoN1ygL.png


Keep in mind that I didn't choose anyone on this list. I set the criteria based on anonymized data, and organized the matrix before knowing who was on it. Then, I converted the anonymous key to member names, and voila! Also, these numbers do not represent the number of likes; they are normalized! So, it isn't the case that Xann liked 0 of my posts; I'm not sure of the exact number but it's at least 1. Rather, based on the average number of likes received and given by everyone in this matrix, I we got a score of 0. Blank squares, however, do denote 0 likes.

Obviously this analysis is somewhat simplistic; I'll continue to research the best ways to parse and present this information. In addition, I'm curious about analyzing additional data; for example, using a word analyzer to assess the tone/aggression in a post, and flagging users who engage in back-and-forth posting (denoted, for example, by quoting one-another).

Interesting stuff..

@Jaguar
@Magic Poriferan
@bechimo
@geedoenfj
@Floki
@Totenkindly
@jcloudz
@Hard
@Ivy
@Lark
@ChocolateMoose123
@Poki
@asynartetic
@SearchingforPeace
@SpankyMcFly
@ZNP-TBA
@Stephano
@Xann
@Tellenbach
@S16M4
@DiscoBiscuit
@YUI
@Virtual ghost
@Jonny
@ceecee
@Nicodemus
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
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Messages
20,647
A small group of people have a large interest in politics. How is that tribalism?
 

Jonny

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A small group of people have a large interest in politics. How is that tribalism?

You're right, it isn't necessarily. And, what I'm talking about here might not even meet the formal standard of tribalism, in much the same way getting anxious around a person of color late at night isn't racism. But, it is something. Patterns of behavior can help us know ourselves better; at least I'd like to think so.

I didn't specifically choose anyone in that matrix, I let the data choose for me. In fact, when I originally came up with the idea and developed the matrix, I had no idea who anyone on that list would be (I'm even on it!).
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
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Messages
20,647
You're right, it isn't necessarily. And, what I'm talking about here might not even meet the formal standard of tribalism, in much the same way getting anxious around a person of color late at night isn't racism. But, it is something. Patterns of behavior can help us know ourselves better; at least I'd like to think so.

What is your definition of "is"? ;)
 

1487610420

Permabanned
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
6,426
I've been curious about the relatively recent surge in tribalism since the 2016 election. It is clear to many of us who frequent the politics sub-forum, both as contributors and readers, that here at TypoC we're not immune to this phenomenon. But, unlike our daily interactions in the "real world", here at TypoC we have a wealth of data at our fingertips to shed light on this very issue. By analyzing meta-data on the interactions between forum members, we can better see what lies under the surface.

So, over the past few days I've been gathering data from the politics sub-forum in a similar(ish) fashion to what was done here: What your posting habits say about you!

In particular, I've focused on 5 major threads:

  • Trump Administration
  • United States of America - General Thread
  • TRUMP 2016!!!!
  • Europe - general thread
  • 3rd wave feminism

As of today, I haven't really done much analysis, and I've only gathered very simplistic data like poster names and "likes". However, even this information has been illuminating. Within these threads are just over 16,000 posts by close to 300 members, with a 6,700 likes spread between about 4,500 posts.

As a simple way to visualize these factions, I decided to extract groups of Likers and Posters. The Likers are those members who liked the most posts within the data set, concentrated between the fewest number of members who posted; for example, if you liked at least 50 different posts, and the members you liked had an average of about 3 likes from you each, you were included in this group. The Posters are those members with the most likes in the data set, concentrated between the fewest number of members who liked them; in other words, if you had at least 30 likes and you received roughly 4 likes from each member who liked you, you were included in this group.

The reason for including the concentration parameter is to ignore those members who have like 100 likes from 100 different users, since they would likely not represent a "faction" of the forum.

From this information, I created a matrix for the numbers of likes given by each of the Likers identified above to each of the Posters identified above. I then, very roughly, normalized these numbers to account for the fact that some Likers liked more than others, and some Posters were liked more than others. Below is what came out (after a bit of manual sorting). White colors denote no or very few likes, while green and blue represent increasingly significant concentrations of likes. Squares denoted with an X are for those members who were included in both groups; they're colored blue because I assume (maybe naively, haha) that everyone likes themselves.

YoN1ygL.png


Keep in mind that I didn't choose anyone on this list. I set the criteria based on anonymized data, and organized the matrix before knowing who was on it. Then, I converted the anonymous key to member names, and voila!

Obviously this analysis is somewhat simplistic; I'll continue to research the best ways to parse and present this information. In addition, I'm curious about analyzing additional data; for example, using a word analyzer to assess the tone/aggression in a post, and flagging users who engage in back-and-forth posting (denoted, for example, by quoting one-another).

Interesting stuff..

@Jaguar
@Magic Poriferan
@bechimo
@geedoenfj
@Floki
@Totenkindly
@jcloudz
@Hard
@Ivy
@Lark
@ChocolateMoose123
@Poki
@asynartetic
@SearchingforPeace
@SpankyMcFly
@ZNP-TBA
@Stephano
@Xann
@Tellenbach
@S16M4
@DiscoBiscuit
@YUI
@Virtual ghost
@Jonny
@ceecee
@Nicodemus

Jonny, Le Creep strykes hagen.

Heat map is more better visuals.
 

Totenkindly

@.~*virinaĉo*~.@
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Considering my Likes are pretty low and that I Liked people who I personally dislike if i felt they actually had a good point, i don't think I'd label that "tribalism." But hey, whatever makes you happy.
 

Magic Poriferan

^He pronks, too!
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My question is...

Who the fuck is ChocolateMoose123?
 

Jonny

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Messages
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Considering my Likes are pretty low and that I Liked people who I personally dislike if i felt they actually had a good point, i don't think I'd label that "tribalism." But hey, whatever makes you happy.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting anybody on the list is in a tribe or anything. But, the recent surge in tribalism is, rather, what sparked the inquiry in the first place.

- - - Updated - - -

My question is...

Who the fuck is ChocolateMoose123?

Haha, I have no idea. As I said, I didn't pick the people. I let the logic do it...maybe it's someone with very few posts but lots of likes.
 

SearchingforPeace

Well-known member
Joined
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Messages
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I've been curious about the relatively recent surge in tribalism since the 2016 election. It is clear to many of us who frequent the politics sub-forum, both as contributors and readers, that here at TypoC we're not immune to this phenomenon. But, unlike our daily interactions in the "real world", here at TypoC we have a wealth of data at our fingertips to shed light on this very issue. By analyzing meta-data on the interactions between forum members, we can better see what lies under the surface.

So, over the past few days I've been gathering data from the politics sub-forum in a similar(ish) fashion to what was done here: What your posting habits say about you!

In particular, I've focused on 5 major threads:

  • Trump Administration
  • United States of America - General Thread
  • TRUMP 2016!!!!
  • Europe - general thread
  • 3rd wave feminism

As of today, I haven't really done much analysis, and I've only gathered very simplistic data like poster names and "likes". However, even this information has been illuminating. Within these threads are just over 16,000 posts by close to 300 members, with a 6,700 likes spread between about 4,500 posts.

As a simple way to visualize these factions, I decided to extract groups of Likers and Posters. The Likers are those members who liked the most posts within the data set, concentrated between the fewest number of members who posted; for example, if you liked at least 50 different posts, and the members you liked had an average of about 3 likes from you each, you were included in this group. The Posters are those members with the most likes in the data set, concentrated between the fewest number of members who liked them; in other words, if you had at least 30 likes and you received roughly 4 likes from each member who liked you, you were included in this group.

The reason for including the concentration parameter is to ignore those members who have like 100 likes from 100 different users, since they would likely not represent a "faction" of the forum.

From this information, I created a matrix for the numbers of likes given by each of the Likers identified above to each of the Posters identified above. I then, very roughly, normalized these numbers to account for the fact that some Likers liked more than others, and some Posters were liked more than others. Below is what came out (after a bit of manual sorting). White colors denote no or very few likes, while green and blue represent increasingly significant concentrations of likes. Squares denoted with an X are for those members who were included in both groups; they're colored blue because I assume (maybe naively, haha) that everyone likes themselves.

YoN1ygL.png


Keep in mind that I didn't choose anyone on this list. I set the criteria based on anonymized data, and organized the matrix before knowing who was on it. Then, I converted the anonymous key to member names, and voila!

Obviously this analysis is somewhat simplistic; I'll continue to research the best ways to parse and present this information. In addition, I'm curious about analyzing additional data; for example, using a word analyzer to assess the tone/aggression in a post, and flagging users who engage in back-and-forth posting (denoted, for example, by quoting one-another).

Interesting stuff..

@Jaguar
@Magic Poriferan
@bechimo
@geedoenfj
@Floki
@Totenkindly
@jcloudz
@Hard
@Ivy
@Lark
@ChocolateMoose123
@Poki
@asynartetic
@SearchingforPeace
@SpankyMcFly
@ZNP-TBA
@Stephano
@Xann
@Tellenbach
@S16M4
@DiscoBiscuit
@YUI
@Virtual ghost
@Jonny
@ceecee
@Nicodemus

Damn, I actually "liked" one of your posts in these threads you selected, Jonny?!? We must be secret co-conspirators working to disrupt the forum and take over the world!!!!!!!

I also like reading https://www.theatlantic.com https://www.wsws.org https://www.currentaffairs.org https://www.jacobinmag.com and https://blackagendareport.com daily so they all must be part of a secret conspiracy.

The data table does look a little like GIGO, TBH. A very few threads. A very few posters. No recognition of the vast amount of interaction off thread between PMs, VMs, reps, and discord/vent. No accounting for changes over time. Etc.

What I really see are a lot of posters that don't post anymore, even though they are not banned......
 

Jonny

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Damn, I actually "liked" one of your posts in these threads you selected, Jonny?!? We must be secret co-conspirators working to disrupt the forum and take over the world!!!!!!!

I also like reading The Atlantic World Socialist Web Site - Marxist analysis, international working class struggles & the fight for socialism Current Affairs | Culture & Politics Jacobin and Black Agenda Report daily so they all must be part of a secret conspiracy.

The data table does look a little like GIGO, TBH. A very few threads. A very few posters. No recognition of the vast amount of interaction off thread between PMs, VMs, reps, and discord/vent. No accounting for changes over time. Etc.

What I really see are a lot of posters that don't post anymore, even though they are not banned......

It isn't just 1 post; you liked more than 1. That's a normalized number. It was a data set with a total of about 16,000 posts with thousands of likes.

Just to give you some idea, you liked 5 of my 299 posts in the data set, and 76 of DiscoBiscuit's 1,244 posts. The numbers in the squares are based on number of likes given and received, but aren't those numbers exactly. You were only included in the Matrix because you were a prolific poster (421 posts with 196 likes received) and a prolific liker (340 likes). The question is, are the likes of the people in the matrix above concentrated in certain ways that present a pattern.

Or, maybe as you suggest in your post, I just spewed out garbage and am a suggesting some conspiracy wearing my tinfoil hat. ;)
 

Jaguar

Active member
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Messages
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Wait a minute, who the hell is S16M4? Whoever it was they're permabanned.
 

SearchingforPeace

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It isn't just 1 post; you liked more than 1. That's a normalized number. It was a data set with a total of about 16,000 posts with thousands of likes.

So I liked more than 1?????? We must really be secret tribal conspiracy partners....
 

Coriolis

Si vis pacem, para bellum
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Thread split off by agreement of the OP.


Also, ChocolateMoose123 used to be MDP2525.
 

ceecee

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Yeah, I'm not suggesting anybody on the list is in a tribe or anything. But, the recent surge in tribalism is, rather, what sparked the inquiry in the first place.

I see what you're getting at. I think the tribalism you are speaking of are more the ones posters are bringing here from outside - not so much the ones the ones that exist here already. And some people just need to calm their tits.
 

Jonny

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So I liked more than 1?????? We must really be secret tribal conspiracy partners....

Yes, you liked 5 of my several hundred posts. Here they are, since you'd like a more detailed analysis:

https://www.typologycentral.com/for...7197-trump-administration-17.html#post2804115
https://www.typologycentral.com/for...7197-trump-administration-23.html#post2817848
https://www.typologycentral.com/for...losed-/81268-trump-2016-a-11.html#post2671971
TRUMP 2016!!!
United States of America - General Thread

In the first one, I provided factual evidence helping to shed light on a claim you made about the Ukrainian coup backed by "Obama and Hillary". You liked that.

In the second one, I provided a factual rundown of the Nunes accusations in response to your statement "Damn, looks like the Obama administration had wiretap surveillance on Trump officials and then passed it around to other folks....without any Russian players." You liked that.

In the third one, I provided an impartial analysis of the Trump <> Judge Curiel debacle. You liked that.

In the fourth one, I came to Trump's defense saying that the attack on his tax returns was ridiculous. You liked that.

In the last one, I laughed at bechimo and Jaguar who were bickering about the screaming women in the Kavanaugh hearings, and made an off color joke "Edit: As an aside, I do recall seeing screaming people being removed from the hearings...I won't presume to know their genders." You liked that.
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
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Can someone fix the spelling of Tribalism in the title? Thanks.
 

Jonny

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Thought politics was forbidden these days.

Hopefully this won't get into politics. My hope was to do an impartial parsing of the politics data to help us suss out some of our issues. And [MENTION=4050]ceecee[/MENTION], I like your point. Any sort of "tribalism" or whatever that presents itself on this forum is likely spillover from the rest of our lives. We all like to think we're kind, rational, reasonable people who come to the defense of those in need, and who fight against bad behavior or "bad people" regardless of identity or whatever. But, sometimes there are implicit biases in our behavior that are only borne out through long-term patterns. Maybe we tend to defend those we agree with more often than those we don't, even when the former might be acting poorly and the latter is justified. And, maybe those people sense those things, and implicit hostilities develop.
 
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