Unconscious: What do you know of the unconscious?

[LightSun]

"Unconscious: What do you know of the unconscious? Do you know that before you make a conscious thought or action it was already decided by the subconscious? Cognitive mindfulness proposes and teaches being more aware of our underlying thought, getting rid of cognitive fallacies and making more independent conscious actions and decisions rather that automatic reaction."

“I believe our mind has a mind of its own. It has been supported by science that before we make a conscious choice it has already been determined on the unconscious level. So much for free will. We are a product of the nature and nurture paradigm. I’m a hard behaviorist and believe people do things and have little control over their subconscious programming. If we did it, it’s almost like it was meant to be. A person still must be held accountable for his or her choices whether they are conscious or unconsciously derived.

Every person has blind spots, rationalizations, denial and defense mechanisms of some sort. The thoughts, emotions, behaviors and brain chemicals are all operating in a circular cycle. Each has power and no one can conquer all of their thought patterns because the unconscious depths hold sway in the fore mentioned dimensions of the human character that we are not privy to but must work to uncover.
To take effective action you must awake.

We predetermine our dreams, develop them into visions and implement them into action through conscious choice and will. The path available is to make the unconscious conscious. Otherwise we are as in Plato's Cave Allegory blind reacting out of emotion and instinct. The choice is yours. Remain in the shadows of Plato's cave unaware of your unconscious thoughts and drives which rule you. If something does not make sense on the surface, there is an unconscious reason.

Or you elect to make the unconscious conscious through cognitive mindfulness. It is a discipline and exercise to train the mind to be fully alert and alive."

 

[SurrealisticSlumbers]

I'm afraid that's just the problem

 

[Cellmold]

I know nothing of my unconscious, as soon as I turn my attention to what appears to have come from it, it no longer remains unconscious.

However I do think, or suspect, that there is a reciprocal relationship between what could be framed as unconscious and conscious behaviours. But one would, I think, have to solve the issue of determinism in behaviour in order to bring any level of decent understanding to that relationship.

And that (apparently) unsolvable & unknowable point between unconscious and conscious, seems to me, to be the key to understanding why we make the decisions we do & it's connection to the development of belief.

You're always chasing that white whale; once you think it's caught, guess what? There is always another one and what was conscious and unconscious shifts away from you, so you have to introduce new efforts and focus of attention.

Although much better and more involved thinkers have struggled with that paradox throughout human history.

Good luck.

 

[Maou]

I have fiddled around with it, and learned to do some things. In a much similar fashion as one learns to Lucid dream. You can use the same techniques to modify your subconscious and inner thoughts through chanting mantra's inside your head till it becomes internalized. I quickly realized, that this is actually just using CBT on yourself. I had no idea at the time, as I have never been to a therapist. I had learned to do it naturally.

Using this technique, I combined it with lucid dreaming to confront certain elements in myself and unravel them. I had managed to overcome my depression for the most part because of it.

I see the subconscious and the conscious as the "Code" and the "OS". The brain is kinda like Linux, and not Windows or iOS. A single bad command (trauma), can wreck the whole thing. Then you spend hours working around it. But if you learn how to use certain commands correctly, you can actually fix things.

 

[Point148]

The unconscious is ruled by genetics.

 

[Maou]

The unconscious is ruled by genetics.

Not quite, because your mind is influenced by both nature and nurture.

 

[Wunjo]

From what I have discovered, its language is symbolic.

Some events that a person runs through usually has an unconscious response. A person who slits their wrists, are of course, can be rightfully masochistic in their conscious mind or from a conscious point of view, however, that event, behaviour in itself can be a symbol, a scream for renewal from the unconscious, as if a snake is trying to shed its skin. Unconscious motivations or desires can symbolically impact one's behaviour in a way that can be quite difficult to decipher.

From what I perceive, if an extreme attitude develop in one's conscious, it can work as a huge repression mechanism for unconscious desires, wishes, or et cetera, the puritanist movement and their neurotic relationship with the feminine and their sexuality is a clear cut example of this. Conscious behaviour can be compensative of the unconscious desire, but not as a principle, rather as an outcome, for the relationship between the conscious and the unconscious needs to exist within a periphery of equivalent libidinal energy. If the balance shifts, it is very much possible for the unconscious to "invade" the conscious mind for the psyche to rebalance its organization, which is a quite a dark process.

There must be a balance of opposites between the conscious and the unconscious for the psyche to function, which is the original principle.

The language of the unconscious is dreamlike, and dreams are the language of the unconscious, the symbols in our dreams are the way our unconscious trying to communicate with our conscious mind and in ways such as compensation, archetypal imageries, it tries to answer some questions that appear in our conscious minds. Archetypal imageries, according to Jungians, can also help us to decipher the language of the dreams. Amplification is a method used for this, which is to comment on a dream by interpreting its symbols in relation to their archetypal counterparts. Freud says that dreams have a manifest and a latent content, while manifest content is the apparent message of the dream, latent is the content that is not apparent, but requires, how one'd put it, some archeological work.

Jung, on the other hand says this:

"They do not deceive, they do not lie, they do not distort or disguise... They are invariably seeking to express something that the ego does not know and does not understand."

Yes, since the psyche is trying to know itself via what we call "I", it'd make sense to say that the unconscious wouldn't waste energy to tell something we have already internalized, with respect to Von Franz.

Again, I can say that the unconscious is more than repressed desires, complexes, projective identifications and such, which of course, again an essential part of it. But from what I see it, access to it creates a lot of creative outlet and a greater flow of libidinal energy, which sometimes, regarding to treatment, can include the channeling of these repressed desires, dissolution of those complexes and proper integration of projective identifications.

Also, from what I see unconscious is, via the phenomenon called collective unconscious is the way how we perceive our intuitions; this is very hard for me to explain, but I will try. Our unconscious mind collects data, analyzes it, or it receives "visions" or "imageries" from the collective unconscious and understands a deeper meaning of it depending on the connection level between each other, it realizes that deeper meaning, makes it conscious and beyond the scopes of time, internalizes that meaning or finds a way to integrate it to a personal or a collective future. Jung's "synchronicity" and its later revelation of relativeness to quantum physics, Nietzsche's use of archetypes in his writings and how they coincide with The Red Book, the idea of the "Blond Beast" again, by Nietzsche and how it possessed the German People and created mass destruction, are examples of this in a collective impact, in a more personal sense, precognitive dreams, or dreams that sometimes "fix" an ego complex naturally, or dreams that allow the free-flow of libidinal energy, can be counted among examples.

There's much, much to talk about this very complex and mystical phenomenon, which I feel to be an extremely important part of human past, present and future.

But I think, this is what I can say for now.

 

[Amberiat]

The unconscious is the unknown of our own selves, it's the thing that drives our most basic needs and desires, influenced by a combination of both genetics and growth.

What I believe is interesting is how difficult it is to understand even a tiny bit of our own unconscious but how easy(comparatively) it is to understand the unconscious of other people with careful observation and psychoanalysis.

 

[Polaris]

The unconscious is like the gods--it can't be seen or touched, and everything it does can be explained through other, more direct means. I don't believe in it; I consider the idea lazy and naive. I do believe, however, that parts of our brain can function like other independent people. There are times, for example, when voices will speak up in my head without my controlling them or knowing what, if anything, the speakers are thinking. No doubt, these voices have some sort of influence on my decision making process. They aren't a part of my mind, though, any more than you are.

 

[Maou]

The unconscious is like the gods--it can't be seen or touched, and everything it does can be explained through other, more direct means. I don't believe in it; I consider the idea lazy and naive. I do believe, however, that parts of our brain can function like other independent people. There are times, for example, when voices will speak up in my head without my controlling them or knowing what, if anything, the speakers are thinking. No doubt, these voices have some sort of influence on my decision making process. They aren't a part of my mind, though, any more than you are.

I don't think it is untouchable. Like dream characters, they are all just aspects of yourself. You know deep down its just you, its just you ignore it and got so used to doing it, you stop noticing it is there.

If you are hearing voices you don't have some control over, you might have schizophrenia/some form of imaginary headmates. But they are not so much your subconscious, but they are coping mechanisms.

 

[Polaris]

Like dream characters, they are all just aspects of yourself.

I actually don't consider dream characters to be aspects of myself.

I don't think it is untouchable.

We may be talking about something slightly different, then.

If you are hearing voices you don't have some control over, you might have schizophrenia/some form of imaginary headmates.

I'm 100% sure I don't have schizophrenia. If I did have it, I would have been diagnosed with it a long, long time ago.

But they are not so much your subconscious, but they are coping mechanisms.

What are they for coping with?

 

[Maou]

What are they for coping with?

It could be many things, communication issues, anxiety, low self-esteem etc. The mind creates coping mechanisms to protect your identity. Perhaps long ago you got into the habit of creating counter arguments to your own thoughts. Over time, it became automated and took on a life of its own. I actually did this a lot in high school, to help me deal with stress and low self-esteem, and a way to think about things. They would take on minds of their own, but not completely. Then when I no longer has use of them, they just disappeared.

 

[Population: 1]

The nature of the beast. The actor behind the mask. The dark matter of our inner universe, shaping and driving our existence in ways not yet understood. Perhaps the seat of the soul as well.

 

[LightSun]

Rewrite and Reedited Edition

"Unconscious: What do you know of the unconscious? How do we make the subconscious thoughts more conscious and thus more amiable to change? Do you know that before you make a conscious thought or action it was already decided by the subconscious? Cognitive mindfulness proposes and teaches being more aware of our underlying thought, getting rid of cognitive fallacies and making more independent conscious actions and decisions rather that automatic reaction."

“If something does not make sense on the surface, there is an unconscious reason. We have the gift of logic and reason. Too many times our reasoning is circumvented by our emotions and feelings. I believe our mind has a mind of its own. It has been supported by science that before we make a conscious choice it has already been determined on the unconscious level. So much for free will. We are a product of the nature and nurture paradigm.

I’m a hard behaviorist and believe people do things and have little control over their subconscious programming. If we did it, it’s almost like it was meant to be. A person still must be held accountable for his or her choices whether they are conscious or unconsciously derived. Every person has blind spots, rationalizations, denial, emotional reasoning and defense mechanisms of some sort. The thoughts, emotions, behaviors, actions and brain chemicals are all operating in a circular cycle.

Each has power and no one can conquer all of their thought patterns because the unconscious depths hold sway in the fore mentioned dimensions of the human character that we are not privy to but must work to uncover. To take effective action you must awake. We predetermine our dreams, develop them into visions and implement them into action through conscious choice and will. The path available is to make the unconscious conscious. Otherwise we are as in Plato's Cave Allegory blind and reacting out of emotion and instinct.

The choice is yours. Remain in the shadows of Plato's cave unaware of your unconscious thoughts and drives which rule you. If something does not make sense on the surface, there is an unconscious reason. Or you elect to make the unconscious conscious through cognitive mindfulness. It is a discipline and exercise to train the mind to be fully alert and alive. Both Cognitive Behavior alongside Rational Emotive Behavior in the west psychology do practices akin a mindful Buddhist approach. All seek to uncover our subconscious thoughts and make it become accessible in our conscious minds in order to make wiser conscious choice's and decision's.

It is a part in the actualizing one's inner self to be conscious and awakened instead of being led by our unconscious and undisciplined automatic thoughts and behaviors. Most of our behavior is automatic, therefore subconsciously driven unknown by us by many distortions in our underlying thought process. These come in the form of rationalizations, denial, emotional reasoning and blind spots. In a sense we are not awake yet.

Both cognitive therapy and Buddhism imply that we really need to wake up by being more aware of how we think, speak and act. In this way we discover the falsehoods and act more in accordance with reality. If we experience a negative emotion there are distortions and fallacies of thought and cognitive reasoning. I use as a metaphor the engine light in a car. If it is on, it implies there is an internal problem. It is a reflection of unfinished business and unresolved conflict. Our emotions are triggered. This is an opportunity for growth.

This is only if we make the choice to reflect and take pains to act with reason and not react towards reality in an irrational manner or by being negative. We in effect take personal responsibility and act with an internal locus of control. We become aware of our subconscious thought process and do not react blindly in an automatic fashion. We become more truly aware of both ourselves and reality and so grow mentally, emotionally and spiritually. We become awake and reach a heaven on earth, nirvana and personal self-actualization. The bottom line really we will live much happier lives. I would recommend 'Feeling Good' by David Burns, 1980 to learn cognitive behavior discipline."

 

[Tengri]

"Unconscious: What do you know of the unconscious? Do you know that before you make a conscious thought or action it was already decided by the subconscious? Cognitive mindfulness proposes and teaches being more aware of our underlying thought, getting rid of cognitive fallacies and making more independent conscious actions and decisions rather that automatic reaction."

I think this description is synonymous with the process of developing personhood through self-actualization. Practicing mindfulness and rationalizing thoughts and emotions, streamline conscious behavior, and mapping out a kind of personalized cross-section of biases, preferences, behaviors of your brain also match what you wrote.

Every person has blind spots, rationalizations, denial and defense mechanisms of some sort. The thoughts, emotions, behaviors and brain chemicals are all operating in a circular cycle. Each has power and no one can conquer all of their thought patterns because the unconscious depths hold sway in the fore mentioned dimensions of the human character that we are not privy to but must work to uncover.
To take effective action you must awake.

I like your point here. Unconscious thoughts and feelings are a murky undertow of complex processes that make waking life a mesh of conscious - reflex actions. Given that, it's hard to see what decisions we will and what are predetermined by a tiny spark along a neuron. Compounding this problem is the fact that the nerve cord, gut, and brain lobes all evolved at different points in history with competing-cooperating objectives (like dueling banjos) in the body systems.

 

[Quick]

The unconscious is our will (or perhaps your will goes deeper than your unconscious which I personally am inclined to believe). You don't exercise you will in conscious form. Consciousness is a thought process - a justification - if you will, not the will itself.

 

[Lark]

One of the things that interests me about the idea is that it breaks with the dichotomy of sane/insane as everyone has an insane self which is for the most part composed of things repressed into the unconscious, though unless I am wrong this is all the view of psychoanalysis and not shared by cognitivism or behaviourism for instance.

At the very best those schools of thought, and this is via computer science and AI so far as I know, will only accept a version of the unconscious as heuristic reasoning or thinking, that is "programmes" or "scripts" which operate automatically and without conscious effort, I'm not sure if its a basic as breathing and circulation but I guess it could be, the point is that there can be no thought or thinking that is not conceived of or some how invisible, there can be diminished reasoning or awareness but that is not the same thing.

What's everyones thoughts on that?

I kind of think of it like many opposed schools of thought in anything really, a lot of the breaks or schisms or disagreements are in correcting excesses in one or another school which should not be considered representative of the school as a whole but a breakdown or difficulty of some sort. It also makes me think that most things need to be understood in context and never in isolation. Like the precursors and post post date thinking, prequels and sequels, need to be known and reckoned with the understand the thing itself that you are looking at.

I'm not sure if that is hegelian, historicism or dialogic or dialectical, my knowledge of philosophy is limited.

 

[ducks]

So is sexuality part of our unconscious? Cause we can't change it...right? Yet it influences what we desire and are drawn to? I kind of think personality types are often like that; people are unconsciously drawn to certain styles and ways of thinking and being.

 

[Mole]

The conscious part of our brain is only a very small part of our brain. Almost all of the work of our brain in unconscious. And it may surprise you to know our unconscious brain first makes a decision which then passes it to our conscious brain who thinks it has made the decision.

The conscious brain can question the decisions made by the unconscious brain and ameliorate or change the decision.

 

[LightSun]

"The unconscious is not darkness but rather unexplored territory. The subconscious is like a wild frontier waiting for new discoveries to be made. In fact from our unconscious are produced our creative thoughts and leaps forward through insight to new plateaus of understanding. The unconscious does a marvelous job of connecting tangents that may seem to be unrelated yet crystallize into a pattern. Hence new discoveries are born and he advancement of science."