You're too close minded (an attempt at a serious disscussion)

[Hiraeth]

I'd consider myself in the general sense very open-minded, but it's more that I'm open-minded externally about the world around me than internally for the values and interests I instill in myself. Certain instances I can find myself making compromises, but if it crosses a line that I believe goes too far, I'll retract.

- - - Updated - - -

it should be illegal to have different opinios

Hah. I love how all of us who liked this comment are 4s.

 

[Red Memories]

what does this mean to you? - It means being completely unwilling to hear or understand a different perspective.

is it a good thing or a bad thing? - It depends. For the most part it IS a bad thing. But in some cases I don't think we should be open to hearing, say, a pedophile claim his pedophilia is normal and okay.

do you think you're more closed minded or open minded? - Open-minded.

have you ever been accused of being too open minded? - Yes, but I've also been considered closed-minded.

in your mind is this type related? if so how? - I think an Fe type can be more likely to COME OFF closed-minded. An Ne type is more likely to be open to other perspectives. I think it can be a trait of some functions moreso than others.

 

[prplchknz]

thanks this was a good discussion better than i thought.
I'll add more 2 cents later

 

[prplchknz]

Although I'm extremely open-minded, I do tend to make snap judgements of others based on limited evidence, as in I may analyze something a specific way and come to a stubborn conclusion about what insight that provides me. I generally have a really easy time circling back to reassess things and tweak a perspective, but struggle in doing this with those snap judgements... it usually takes me longer to accept that my perspective was a bit off from reality when it comes to analyzing others.

doesn't everyone make snap judgements? in a way it was probably useful to our survival way back when. I'm not saying snap judgements are ok, and you shouldn't try to curb them

 

[Peter Deadpan]

doesn't everyone make snap judgements? in a way it was probably useful to our survival way back when. I'm not saying snap judgements are ok, and you shouldn't try to curb them

Yes, everyone does. I am specifically referring to my tendency to psychoanalyze people based on little information though, and how I can be a little stubborn when it comes to changing an already established theory. In most other ways, I am open-minded though.

 

[prplchknz]

Yes, everyone does. I am specifically referring to my tendency to psychoanalyze people based on little information though, and how I can be a little stubborn when it comes to changing an already established theory. In most other ways, I am open-minded though.

o ok, yeah it can be hard once you've made up your mind about someone to change your opinion unless there's substantial evidence ok for me they just have to give me food, i'm basically a dog. But from my understanding this is what you're saying a problem for a lot of people.

 

[rav3n]

No where in my post did I say I tell them this. Why would I? They're aware. Let me ask you this - why do you think Trump remains so successful with a certain segment of the US population? Because he knows exactly what to appeal to - their fears. Immigrants taking jobs, a world that requires you arm yourself, women taking your jobs and masculinity, LGBT folks getting way too close to having the same rights as the straight people and that has to stop, the war on religion..... Emotional, angry and scared to death.

The sad reality is that those fears and biases were already there and Trump simply inflames them.

 

[Luminous]

Yes, everyone does. I am specifically referring to my tendency to psychoanalyze people based on little information though, and how I can be a little stubborn when it comes to changing an already established theory. In most other ways, I am open-minded though.

Perhaps this could also be a case of you being good at reading character and then later learning something that makes you doubt whether your assessment is valid, whether or not it should actually be doubted?

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Perhaps this could also be a case of you being good at reading character and then later learning something that makes you doubt whether your assessment is valid, whether or not it should actually be doubted?

Yeah, that happens sometimes.

There was a woman I worked with a few years ago. At that time in my life, I was extremely hypervigilant about scanning for signs of narcissism or sociopathy, due to prior bad experiences. Anyway, I assessed this woman as being a sociopath and talked to some co-workers about it. No one necessarily disagreed with me, but I'm not sure they were buying what I was selling. Soon after, I no longer worked there, and eventually I started to doubt my assessment of her and wondered if I jumped to conclusions because of said hypervigilance.

Recently, as in a couple weeks ago, a dear friend of mine who still works with this woman told me that I was right all those years ago and that almost everyone who works with her is currently seeking other employment.

 

[LightSun]

what does this mean to you?

is it a good thing or a bad thing?

do you think you're more closed minded or open minded?

have you ever been accused of being too open minded?

in your mind is this type related? if so how?

"Open-Mind: How can one achieve a open mind, heart and soul? Can we begin to develop newer, open mind-sets and what is the way to go about achieving this? How does the role of learning new cultures help in this regard? What role if any has education in the role of having an open mind?

How do life’s experiences shape and mold us to possess an open mind? How does the media as well other aspects in society open or restrict an open mind? Can good parenting help nurture an open mind?"

"As the mind realizes itself, it stops identifying with it's own thoughts. This leaves a lot of open space. A mature mind can entertain any idea; it is never threatened by opposition or conflict, because it knows that it can't be hindered. When it has no position to defend, or identity to protect, it can go anywhere. There's never anything to lose, because there's no thing that exists in the first place. Laughter pours out of it, and tears of gratitude, from the experience of it's own nature." Byron Katie

“I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief.” Gerry Spence

"The mind of an enlightened human being is flexible and adaptable. The mind of the ignorant person is conditioned and fixed." Ajahn Sumedho

“Free thinkers are those willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking, where it is absent, discussion is apt to become worse than useless.” Leo Tolstoy


"We must be true to ourselves. However we all have blind spots of human awareness.If we act in a non-conducive way with negative energy then it behooves us to learn, listen and heed the feedback from our peers.
Indeed it is a great way to learn to first have an internal moral compass and then also with open mind listen and reflect on the feedback we derive from others. If we have maintained our moral compass and walk within balance of reason and compassion then dissenters may say what they may.

It is a reflection of their own blind spots and we remain true to our self and the path we walk upon. Open mindedness encompasses the ability to keep an open mind and change or alter belief depending on new further evidence. There is a danger inherent where some people will hold unto beliefs irregardless of new information. This type of thinking leads to stagnation of the spirit and no new growth may occur. What is worse these individuals hamper social justice and change. A problem arises with dogma which can come from religion, politics and any organization.

I've found people generally repeat themselves to their own constituency and have defense mechanisms to in hamper new information that doesn't fall in line with their preconceived notions. If one has a closed set of rules defining reality and the way to act, behave, think and feel in any given situation, it does not take into account human freedom and individuality. Also in the various circumstances there may be grey areas. Coming from a psychology background I identify and notice cognitive distortions such as all or nothing should statements, denial, rationalization, emotional reasoning and other cognitive fallacies.

All of these do not use critical reasoning to examine and weigh the evidence. I look for objective fact preferably backed by statistics. This in lieu of emotional and subjective laden statements which amount to little more than opinions and unvoiced stereotypes and prejudices projected outward into the world or to other people. I usually engage in conversation and try to find some middle ground. When faced with another hopefully reasonable person I say I disagree agreeably. There are many rich wise sayings and proverbs that I don't give credence too because they have not passed the test of science validity but are rather merely beliefs people believe in.

I respect their belief but state my own position and keep a healthy boundary in the discussion. Sometimes the beliefs are diametrically opposed and I say I disagree agreeably hoping to find other avenues of mutual respect and dialogue. In this way problem solving can occur versus focusing on our disagreements. There are some things that are just anti-ethical to me and will gain a visceral response. As stated before, I state my own position and maintain boundaries but never delve into useless arguing with another person. Beliefs come from within and no one can change another. In order to achieve this requires using empathy, communication skills with active listening.

It is getting into the other person's phenomenological inner universe and try to see things from their perspective. It takes discipline and having a firm grounding of knowing self. I have an analogy that all of us are part of a giant crystal or diamond, each of us seeing angles of the truth but none of us seeing reality in it's whole entirety.

 

[LightSun]

Close minded is definitely a derogatory term. It means you’re unwilling to be open to differing opinions or concepts. Willfully ignorant. I also scored very high on openness on the OCEAN test (which is good because some of my other scores are abysmal). If I said I haven’t reconsidered several of my viewpoints over a lifetime of exposure to new experiences I’d be an epic liar. Some people mistake being mentally flexible for being weak. Lacking a strong but flexible framework from which to approach things- suffering from mental rigidity- is true weakness.

Now that being said, willingness to except differing opinions and concepts (open mindedness) doesn’t mean absolutely condoning others views for fear of appearing intolerant. You still might assess and judge the subject against your own opinions and beliefs and reject them. It’s the willingness to at least examine a position or concept and not just automatically dismiss it because it doesn’t fit your ideals. There are many things I disagree with or don’t mesh with my view but I attempt to understand them unless they are so morally reprehensible to me that they are fundamentally wrong according to my code. Even then I may understand something on a logical level but disregard it on moral grounds.

Population: 1 wrote, (all quotes Population: 1 followed by my replies) (1) "It means you’re unwilling to be open to differing opinions or concepts. Willfully ignorant."


This approaches dogma which can come from religion, politics and any organization. If one has a closed set of rules defining reality and the way to act, behave, think and feel in any given situation, it does not take into account human freedom and individuality. Also in the various circumstances there may be grey areas.

(2) "....reconsidered several... my viewpoints over a lifetime of exposure to new experiences..."


This is great, the ability to keep an open mind and change or alter belief depending on new further evidence. There is a danger inherent where some people will hold unto beliefs irregardless of new information.


(3) "Lacking...strong but flexible framework from which to approach things- suffering from mental rigidity- is true weakness."


It is stagnation and no new growth may occur. What is worse these individuals hamper social justice and change.


(4) "....willingness to except differing opinions and concepts (open mindedness) doesn’t mean absolutely condoning others views for fear of appearing intolerant." and "...assess...judge the subject against your own opinions and beliefs and reject them."


I concur. I usually engage in conversation and try to find some middle ground. Sometimes the beliefs are diametrically opposed and I say I disagree agreeably hoping to find other avenues of mutual respect and dialogue. In this way problem solving can occur versus focusing on our disagreements.


(5) "things I disagree with or don’t mesh with my view...attempt to understand them unless they are so morally reprehensible to me that they are fundamentally wrong according to my code."


Excellent, again. This is using empathy, communication skills with active listening. It is getting into the other person's phenomenological inner universe and try to see things from their perspective. It takes discipline and having a firm grounding of knowing self.

 

[LightSun]

Generally speaking, I am open and if you give me a POV with logical, sensible (no not what one thinks is logical and sensible to them, what actually is), I'll listen. I've changed political views as well as personal views I once had due to these compelling arguments. To me being close minded comes directly from fear of the unknown and a mental block to any new data. People can choose to be lead by fear or not, up to them entirely, however these tend to be the least logical people so a compelling argument based on fact isn't going to work for them, it has to appeal to their emotional, reactionary personality.

ceecee wrote, (all quotations are ceecee's followed by my reply) (1) "....open...logical, sensible... I'll listen."


Coming from a psychology background I identify and notice cognitive distortions such as all or nothing should statements, denial, rationalization, emotional reasoning and other cognitive fallacies. I look for objective fact preferably backed by statistics. This in lieu of emotional and subjective laden statements which amount to little more than opinions and unvoiced stereotypes and prejudices projected outward into the world or to other people.

(2) "I've changed political views...well as personal views I once had due to these compelling arguments."

To me this admirable and relatively rare. I've found people generally repeat themselves to their own constituancy and have defense mechanisms to in hamper new information that doesn't fall in line with their preconceived notions.

(3) "...close minded comes directly from fear...unknown...a mental block to any new data." and "led by fear...these tend to be the least logical people so a compelling argument based on fact isn't going to work for them, it has to appeal to their emotional, reactionary personality."

Yes it comes in the form of unconscious mental bias, rationalization, denial, blind spots and emotional reasoning. All of these do not use critical reasoning to examine and weigh the evidence.

 

[LightSun]

All this.

I score very high on openness too. And I consider myself open-minded: open to considering new ideas and ways of looking at things, other ways of doing things. But as an old friend of mine was fond of saying, it's good to be open-minded, but not so open-minded that your brains fall out. Just because I am willing to consider, look at things in different ways, accept and, most importantly, respect, that others have differing viewpoints, ways of living, etc, doesn't mean I take all those ways as actually being correct, logical, moral, or right for me personally. I think open-mindedness reflects one's acknowledgment that one doesn't know everything, can't know everything, that the world is wide and wondrous, that "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy". But it does take courage: If there is more out there than we can know, well, it's all uncertain and in that way frightening. So I am open to the world revealing itself to me. But inside myself, I have firm closed ideas and ideals of some morals, truths, ultimate meanings, ways of acting and doing. Respecting where I end and others begin.

Luminous wrote, (all quotes are Luminous followed by my reply) (1) "...open to considering new ideas and ways of looking at things, other ways of doing things."

To me the reality I accept are scientifically proven objective facts. Even in science there are many hypothesis and theories that are always open to revision. In may sound lackadaisical but I believe in nothing 100% nor disbelieve anything 100%. I just have a criteria of believable until new facts or new developments arise. I am such an empiricist. When new data arises or is discovered I incorporate it into my belief schemes.


(2) "...I am willing to consider, look at things in different ways, accept and, most importantly, respect, that others have differing viewpoints, ways of living, etc, doesn't mean I take all those ways as actually being correct, logical, moral, or right for me personally."


I strive for common ground. When faced with another hopefully reasonable person I say I disagree agrreably. There are many rich wise sayings and proverbs that I don't give credence too because they have not passed the test of science validity but are rather merely beliefs people believe in. I respect their belief but state my own position and keep a healthy boundary in the discussion.


(3) "I think open-mindedness reflects one's acknowledgment that one doesn't know everything, can't know everything, that the world is wide and wondrous, that "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." and "So I am open to the world revealing itself to me."


I am in concurrance. I have an analogy that all of us are part of a giant crystal or diamond, each of us seeing angles of the truth but none of us seeing reality in it's whole entirety.


(4) "... inside myself, I have firm closed ideas and ideals of some morals, truths, ultimate meanings, ways of acting and doing. Respecting where I end and others begin."

I again am in congruance. There are some things that are just antiethical to me and will gain a visceral response. As stated before, I state my own position and maintain boundaries but never delve into uselesss arguing with anothe rperson. Beliefs come from within and no one can change another.

 

[Earl Grey]

Close minded to me means being too quick to apply judgments without entertaining a certain idea, or even giving it a thought or chance. Holding your own values, views, opinions above any external ones. Having absolutes. Being black and white.

Imo, it's something which can disadvantage that close-minded individual themselves, and is not type related.

I have never been accused of being 'too open minded', if such a thing even exists.
I'm open minded but with a great capacity for stubbornness.
I do not discredit, shut down, or claim differing views as impossible, but will hold onto the decisions I have made.
I note this because some cannot see that disagreeing with something is not necessarily proclaiming it as 'wrong'.

 

[Bush]

There's a balance. I personally think that open-mindedness is good on the whole, but at the same time I wonder if I'm too easily swayed as new discussions and information arrive. I think we need stubborn people in the mix as well, though that at this point in time we need open-mindedness more than we need closed-mindedness.

 

[prplchknz]

There's a balance. I personally think that open-mindedness is good on the whole, but at the same time I wonder if I'm too easily swayed as new discussions and information arrive. I think we need stubborn people in the mix as well, though that at this point in time we need open-mindedness more than we need closed-mindedness.

I agree with this, I've found myself being duped in the past cuz of being open minded, I've learned to become slightly more stubborn and not believe everyone who tells me they need money because their house burnt down.

but i still have a bad habit of seeing good in people and wanting to believe they're honest, even though i'm learning that's a rare quality

 

[chubber]

I thought I was open-minded. I know I'm a curious person. I've been told that I'm closed minded, but then I don't know if the person was just projecting at the time. I seem to trigger it a lot in people, because I dig deep, I want to understand. I guess, in that way, I'm closed minded, because I'm checking against my own internal preconceived thoughts/ideas, which is incorrect, or different from what I was expecting. So perhaps in that way, I boxed in a certain person, then when the person does something else, I want to know why. That strategy of course doesn't work, well on most people. But it works in the analytical field, objective world, where mindfulness doesn't need to apply.

It's a struggle.

 

[jamain]

what does this mean to you?

To me being open minded means willing to listen and consider perspectives and opinions that differ from ones own. I believe it is important to be open-minded. Being close minded can lead to distorted perceptions and poor decisions. However, I have observed more than a few incorrectly accuse others of not being open minded when they disagree with them. Being open minded does not mean you have to reject your previously held viewpoint. You can consider new information, but ultimately decide that your previously held viewpoint is more logical, accurate, beneficial, practical, etc.

I've witnessed those who don't like a particular viewpoint attempt to shame or coerce others into adopting one they favor by accusing them of being close-minded. Often times those who accuse others of being close-minded are the most close minded people of all. They view anyone who disagrees with their assessment to be close minded. They need to stand back and look at them selves.

is it a good thing or a bad thing?

good

do you think you're more closed minded or open minded?

Open minded!

have you ever been accused of being too open minded?

I'm old enough that I'm sure I've been accused of being close minded at least a few times. However, I'm more likely to be accused of equivocating or giving evasive non-committal answers than I am of being close minded. (I've been accused of that several times) I've lived long enough that I am painfully aware that there is much I don't know so I often avoid giving dogmatic responses. Doesn't mean I won't take a stand, but it does mean I'm aware of the possibility that there may be things I don't know.

in your mind is this type related? if so how?

Can't really answer this as I'm not sure of my type. I'm probably an ISTJ with a low judging preference or an ISTP.

 

[Poki]

what does this mean to you? is it a good thing or a bad thing? do you think you're more closed minded or open minded? have you ever been accused of being too open minded? in your mind is this type related? if so how?

It means you will not try things outside your own understanding/belief.

Overall its bad, but it does have some good qualities. Its a safety mechanism.
I am more open minded. I will try and expand beyond what i believe in an effort to learn and grow.
Yes, my parents think this. Its why i dont really listen to them much in regard to that stuff. Probably why i have grown beyond them. They have trapped themself.

I believe we all get stuck in our own closed mindedness depending on our function stack. Mine is my logic and intuition. I just dont always go along with it. I think its more of an introverted function issue then extraverted. Anytype can be stuck in it just as much as another.

 

[Tellenbach]

I'm skeptical and cynical but I'm willing to consider all ideas, especially if there is evidence to back them up. If I've rejected an idea, it's because I've already looked at the evidence - usually, many times.