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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    Often we cannot see the full consequences of a choice until well after it is made and implemented. Also, good choices can lead to negative consequences when extenuating or unpredictable circumstances occur. to take a simplistic example, one can make what looks like a "good" choice in buying a new car, by selecting one that has good safety and reliability reviews, is economical, meets your needs, etc. Despite your careful research and well thought-out specifications, however, you might still end up with a lemon that breaks down frequently and needs expensive repairs. I would say, then, that a good decision is one that has a high likelihood of leading to positive results based on available information and an understanding of cause and effect.
    Even with people you always have incomplete and imperfect information, I'm sure that anyone who on the face of it appeared to blunder their way into being the victim of a crime, such as fraud or worse, that has involved someone else winning their confidence has had a different experience, and their own extenuating circumstances, which lead that to play out how it did.

  2. #32
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    To me personally anyone is free to make bad choices as long as two conditions are met, 1. They are of sound mind. 2. They aren't harming others. Others are just as free to try and stop/help.

  3. #33
    Queer Coded Cat The Cat's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Crystal Winter Dream;2985793]This has been on my mind since in world literature we began studying "The Underground Man" by Dostoevsky. The underground man was a miserable sort of man yet seemed to take pride in it. Why, he merely wanted the "freedom" to live his life poorly. Which creates a striking idea here.

    What does it mean to be free?
    That's subjective imo
    Should we have the freedom to do things against our own good will
    Yes.
    and the good will of others?
    The good will of others is fickle ime.
    Why should we consider tolerating a man whose sole desire is to destroy someone else's happiness because of his own unhappiness?
    It seems many folk do this all the time naturally? Also I don't like throwing stones from inside my glass house.
    How do we properly handle these people who know they are "sick men" yet refuse to see a "doctor?"
    That is a truly terrifying thought. As "sick" is also subjective.



    Fantastic topic, very thought provoking ^_^
    I am the Cat who walks by themself; and all places are alike to me...

    For the cat is cryptic,
    and close to strange things which men cannot see.
    They are the soul of antique Aegyptus,
    and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir.
    They are the kin of the jungle’s lords,
    and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa.
    The Sphinx is their cousin, and they speak her language;
    but they are more ancient than the Sphinx,
    and remember that which she hath forgotten...

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  4. #34
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    Unless it's a child, my perspective is that self-destruction is a component of free-will. This includes euthanasia and suicide. Relative to others, Totenkindly has already defined the line between self-destruction and destruction of others.

    That said, rational self-interest is a joke if you consider the Great Recession and what's currently happening in the U.S.. There's no such thing as rational when it comes to humans.
    Euthanasia is destroying others. Suicide is destroying yourself.
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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  5. #35
    ƃuıǝǝs | seeing Snow as White's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Euthanasia is destroying others. Suicide is destroying yourself.
    I find this curious.

    I think Euthanasia is a tool to allow graceful deaths. So, I am just wondering how you view it as destroying others? Are you concerned that it would be misused?

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal Winter Dream View Post
    This has been on my mind since in world literature we began studying "The Underground Man" by Dostoevsky. The underground man was a miserable sort of man yet seemed to take pride in it. Why, he merely wanted the "freedom" to live his life poorly. Which creates a striking idea here.

    What does it mean to be free? Should we have the freedom to do things against our own good will and the good will of others? Why should we consider tolerating a man whose sole desire is to destroy someone else's happiness because of his own unhappiness? How do we properly handle these people who know they are "sick men" yet refuse to see a "doctor?"

    Maybe you've read the story and know what I am speaking of. I am curious how you all see this sort of thing.
    Freedom is good.

  7. #37
    cute lil war dog Bush's Avatar
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    I moved some Alfie Evans stuff to a brand new An Alfie Evans thread
    J. Scott Crothers
    Founder, Truthtology, est. 1952
    Prophet and Channel, God Almighty
    Author, the Holy scripture Elevenetics

    "Just as jet fuel cannot melt steel beams, so too cannot the unshakeable pillars of Truthtology ever be shaken, whether by man, nature, or evidence."
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  8. #38
    Phase-shifted beam Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Even with people you always have incomplete and imperfect information, I'm sure that anyone who on the face of it appeared to blunder their way into being the victim of a crime, such as fraud or worse, that has involved someone else winning their confidence has had a different experience, and their own extenuating circumstances, which lead that to play out how it did.
    That's why it is just a high likelihood, not a guarantee. The difficulty in proving a negative makes it hard to tally up the many cases where people avoided fraud and con artist schemes through wise choices and reasonable caution.
    Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth. ~ Buddha

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoBiscuit View Post
    Euthanasia is destroying others. Suicide is destroying yourself.
    Nope. Euthanasia can also be assisted suicide.

  10. #40
    Meat Tornado DiscoBiscuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    Nope. Euthanasia can also be assisted suicide.
    suicide
    noun sui·cide \ ˈsü-ə-ˌsīd \

    the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally

    If it's assisted its not really suicide now is it?
    Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion.
    - Edmund Burke

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