User Tag List

12 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 12

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    7,419

    Post Who IS a role model?

    In 1993 Charles Barkley made a legendary shoe commercial.



    Yes, that statement directed toward the young black youth about wanting to strive for more than athleticism or a lucrative hip hop career was initially a commercial for Air Nike's. However, the point stated in it stands and is very much amplified by that. I'm sure he had pre- and post-game interviews prior to making that commercial which he could have used as a platform, however he decided to use an Air Nike Commercial which would guarantee more air time because it'd play on more than ESPN and several news outlets, and would run around the clock for every show and network with Nike as a sponsor. However, I'm not saying it was a brilliant move or even intentional (I don't know if it was) but instead that it was always gonna be one of those three platforms where he said it, those were the only places he could have said it. Charles Barkley was only a basketball player, one who was paid millions upon millions of dollars for sure, but he knew that playing in the NBA was not a feasible goal for most kids. Even if he had African American kids in mind, (and I promise that it wasn't only demographic that idolized a person based on their athletic ability, especially a figure such as Barkleys) he knew that the pickings for famous role models for that demographic was especially at that time were...limited and controversial pickings at best. That video is a can of worms in of itself that I won't get into in this thread. That's just to drive the point home with what was going on at that time and who was in the limelight. Don't @ me about Eazy-E.

    In fact the purpose of this thread isn't about Charles Barkley and the soap box that he got on which he happened to keep his Air Nike's in. it's to ask a simple question; Who is a role model?

    We as humans model as a survival mechanism first. We learn by observing. That is the actual name for this practice in psychology in fact, Observation Learning AKA modeling. The short version in steps is someone pays attention to an action or behavior, remembers it an stores it, tries to reproduce it and will be motivated to repeat the behavior or action depending on the kind of reinforcement it receives. I bring this up because , generally speaking people seem to believe that more often times than not that people (children especially) actually choose who they model after. They don't. Everything that a small child does is modelled, with a few obvious exceptions (you don't need to teach an infant to cry to get your attention, but you do need to show them other ways to get your attention). They must model this is how they learn, grow. It's a survival mechanism. Role Models are people we do chose to model after because they have traits we want in ourselves or they are in a role we want to be in some point in the future.

    It's generally expected that you'd model yourself after a parent, the parent of the same sex however that isn't an option for a great deal of children living in the states. I myself was raised in a single parent home, so I know what I'm talking about when I say not every child has models at home. Also consider that if you live in a single parent home it's very likely that parent is working quite a lot and not home as much as you'd like. Children raised in single parent schools spend more time with people at school then with one of them, and Teachers divide their time between 30 students, and change annually. There's also other cases where children's parents are present and abusive. 30% of children who witness it participate it in it the future, some believe that it's due to modelling of parents, as late as adulthood.
    The antisocial effects of observational learning are also worth mentioning. As you saw from the example of Claire at the beginning of this section, her daughter viewed Claire’s aggressive behavior and copied it. Research suggests that this may help to explain why abused children often grow up to be abusers themselves (Murrell, Christoff, & Henning, 2007). In fact, about 30% of abused children become abusive parents (U.S. Department of Health & Human Services, 2013). We tend to do what we know. Abused children, who grow up witnessing their parents deal with anger and frustration through violent and aggressive acts, often learn to behave in that manner themselves. Sadly, it’s a vicious cycle that’s difficult to break.
    So, the people you're surrounded by and exposed to most are your peers. That's something kids will default to however other times they'll look to fiction.


    In a 2013 TIME interview, when very contested author Stephenie Meyer was asked how the protagonist of The Host Melanie Stryder (The other novel she wrote) stacked up as a role model she famously replied "I don't really feel like we should be really be looking for our role models in fiction...", this was during a time where she managed to hit it big with her Twilight series, and their film adaptations which also had a protagonist many others claimed was a terrible role model herself. I have no opinion on that I've never read the books and only watched part of the first movie before falling asleep. While not meant to be a role model to anyone, regardless of authorial intent you can't really help what others do with your character in their minds after you send the book to the presses and people were going to model themselves after Bella, particularly young girls because she had something that the audience would want and aspire to, a hot boyfriend who can do anything for the sole purpose of her. (Also, if she wasn't meant to be imitated out of a kindred connection formed over shared self-perceived inadequacy with the reader why is does her name mean 'Beautiful Swan' as if making an ugly duckling analogy?) This is always going to be a byproduct of making a sympathetic character who doubles as a vehicle for wish fulfillment. The character fictional or not becomes something of a goal, and while that might be on a literal level for kids, modeling doesn't end at childhood, it just changes how it occurs. Kids want to be Batman because he has a cool suit and beats up criminals, and adults wanna be Batman because he's super intelligent, ridiculously rich, always prepared, in control of every situation and is built like a truck. The change goes from literal to symbolic.

    This is a topic near to me because for two years I wore a shirt to work with Role Model in big bold print emblazoned on the back of it, while I reared strangers’ kids in a school setting. One of the first things the program director told me was, that the age group I was watching is absorbing everything I do and say like a sponge, and it will come out in how they behave. Snappy comments would return to you if you gave them, as would a bad attitude. This wasn't to say that if a child was vituperative it was your failing, rather it meant that if you were of poor character and shouldn't be working there it'd show in the students behavior and it'd be far worse for you in the long run. It's funny how many kids would sit down and 'chill' with me under a tree next to the basketball court because it was 'cool' and I was the 'cool' counselor, when in reality I just didn't want to stand on the black top for an hour in the hot Florida sun.

  2. #2
    Haunted Echoes Red Memories's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    MBTI
    ESFP
    Enneagram
    215 sx/so
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    7,041

    Default

    This is a complicated topic but something I can resonate with to a degree.

    I think, most here acknowledge, I have a fairly dysfunctional family. And I love my family but it can be awful. I would certainly hope my family is not the model of how families treat each other. My older brother is not at all how I imagined older brothers, my grandfather isn't the idealistic father figure, my mother cannot mentally be there for everyone due to her mental illness, and both my little siblings have autism and greatly delayed. So my "normal" I sometimes come face to face with how abnormal it is. Like seeing a 2-3 year old playing a wii sport game involving kicking a ball. My little siblings couldn't do that now even. I thought he was a genius. My mother told me those are normal motor skills for someone his age. Oh. but besides that point

    Similar to you, my parent is a "single parent" home. My mother is the main caretaker. My grandpa plays the father figure. I have had someone ask if I lived in a fatherless home which I said yes, and they felt they could tell. I desperately wondered what that meant actually. How was I different from a girl in a fathered home? Who knows.

    I am aware how many stars, authors, etc. say "my character/I am not a role model" but the reality is, that will not stop people from modeling. I loved Twilight but I couldn't imagine wanting to be Bella Swan. She was weak at best. However, I actually loved Edward Cullen. I wanted a boyfriend that was that loving and protective, one who'd give his life to protect me. In a sense, "model" often becomes an idealized image of something unattainable.
    A lot of my favorite celebrities are musicians (probably because I love music lol) who tend to focus upon music, have honesty, but a great sense of compassion. I think I seek out compassion because as a child I wasn't given much of it. I made one mistake and there was hell to pay. So I wanted to be different. But when you desire to be different from what "normal" is for you, you then struggle with the fact you CANNOT mirror your parents. As a kid I mirrored poor friend choices, which got me into some trouble too. I don't think at the time though I was aware I was "mirroring" anything though. It was subconscious and difficult to understand.

    Now do I think all these people should filter everything they do because someone might model it? No. Honestly, you should have the freedom to be yourself. Also honestly, I think the people "mirroring" are just attracted to a certain thing. as I said, my favorite stars tend to be brutally honest yet compassionate individuals. I admire their confidence and ability to express themselves, it is something I don't have, something I'd like to have. If you're a crazy reckless star and people mirror you, maybe they felt their life was so cooke-cutter perfect they needed something new.

    I don't know if this adds to the exact conversation you're trying to speak of but its some 2 cents in here. XD


    After all,
    How can you run from what is inside of you?
    Likes Atomic Fiend liked this post

  3. #3
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    MBTI
    enfp
    Enneagram
    8
    Posts
    13,975

    Default

    The cool thing about role models is you can pick and choose what works for you and leave the rest. People aren't perfect, but they can have traits that motivate you and make you say, "Yes. This. I want this." Even fake people--cartoons and characters from stories.. It is the trait they represent, the symbol they are, that makes you motivated and pushes you out of your comfort zone of dullardtown.
    Kantgirl: Just say "I'm feminine and I'll punch anyone who says otherwise!"
    Halla74: Think your way through the world. Feel your way through life.

    Cimarron: maybe Prpl will be your girl-bud
    prplchknz: i don't like it

    In Search Of... ... Kiwi Sketch Art ... Dream Journal ... Kyuuei's Cook book ... Kyu's Tiny House Blog ... Minimalist Challenge ... Kyu's Savings Challenge

  4. #4
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    MBTI
    INTP
    Enneagram
    9 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,639

    Default

    I think the concept of rolemodels is fine, to a certain extent. Issues can arrive when people over idealize their role models.

    One could say, I like having Elon Musk as a role model. I admire his courage to put everything on the line just to achieve his dreams and being succesful amazing. But damn he is one helluva bad but lucky business man.
    And if you do, you are using the concept of role model fairly rationally and properly.

    But saying I want to be a businessman just like Elon, he is God-like when it comes to business, his achievements speak for themselves! His methods and skill must therefor be paramount!
    Then you are just gonna set yourself up for failure, unless in the off chance you are as lucky as he has been.

    Moral of the story, properly understand the concept of what role it is they are modeling and finely tune what it is you want to take from it, rather than ending up idealizing the role as a far broader concept than it actually is.

    Also. Having idealistic role models only to get dissappointed in them later in life really teaches a valuable lesson.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #5

    Default

    IMO, it's better to emulate traits that you admire, rather than people. Not only are people flawed, they also tend to wear public faces to hide those flaws or their true beliefs. It also puts a lot of pressure on the person who's being admired and respected, to continue wearing their public faces. In doing so, it sets them up to fail since their real self will bust out in some covert way and subsequently, people will tear them down.

    So, rather than this dysfunctional dynamic for both sides of this issue, set everyone up to succeed through admirable trait focus.

  6. #6
    Senior Member cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    IMO, it's better to emulate traits that you admire, rather than people. Not only are people flawed, they also tend to wear public faces to hide those flaws or their true beliefs. It also puts a lot of pressure on the person who's being admired and respected, to continue wearing their public faces. In doing so, it sets them up to fail since their real self will bust out in some covert way and subsequently, people will tear them down.

    So, rather than this dysfunctional dynamic for both sides of this issue, set everyone up to succeed through admirable trait focus.
    Yes, this is pretty much what I've always believed, and it's probably why I've never had a single 'role model' in my life and as a kid never had an answer for those sorts of questions like: 'If you could meet anyone from the past or present, who would it be and why??!!!'
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    Likes rav3n liked this post

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Yes, this is pretty much what I've always believed, and it's probably why I've never had a single 'role model' in my life and as a kid never had an answer for those sorts of questions like: 'If you could meet anyone from the past or present, who would it be and why??!!!'
    I was originally going to agree with you that it was the same for me but this discussion has shaken a long forgotten memory loose of one role model who I idolised. She severely disappointed me in some manner as a very young child where I honestly can't remember what happened except for crying myself to sleep (totally abnormal for me) and after that, never had a role model since so that event shaped my perspective.
    Likes cascadeco liked this post

  8. #8
    Senior Member cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    9w1 sp/sx
    Posts
    9,115

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    I was originally going to agree with you that it was the same for me but this discussion has shaken a long forgotten memory loose of one role model who I idolised. She severely disappointed me in some manner as a very young child where I honestly can't remember what happened except for crying myself to sleep (totally abnormal for me) and after that, never had a role model since so that event shaped my perspective.
    That is interesting! And it sounds like it did really shake you to the core and cause a shift going forward.

    To be honest I have always thought I was a bit of an outlier not having had a role model; and I do think they can be powerful 'beacons' for those who maybe don't otherwise have any notable beacons in their lives. But I do agree with your points re traits to aspire to, vs a person in their entirety.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    Likes rav3n liked this post

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    1,787

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    The cool thing about role models is you can pick and choose what works for you and leave the rest. People aren't perfect, but they can have traits that motivate you and make you say, "Yes. This. I want this." Even fake people--cartoons and characters from stories.. It is the trait they represent, the symbol they are, that makes you motivated and pushes you out of your comfort zone of dullardtown.
    Yes, this. I think it's good to encourage kids to identify what they find admirable and inspiring about their role models, and to have them think about how they can emulate those attributes in a concrete way. E.g., Batman's appeal is that he's brave and cares about justice, not just that he wears a cool suit and beats up criminals. What does it mean to be brave? What does it mean to care about justice? What would Batman do?

    Quote Originally Posted by bechimo View Post
    IMO, it's better to emulate traits that you admire, rather than people. Not only are people flawed, they also tend to wear public faces to hide those flaws or their true beliefs. It also puts a lot of pressure on the person who's being admired and respected, to continue wearing their public faces. In doing so, it sets them up to fail since their real self will bust out in some covert way and subsequently, people will tear them down.

    So, rather than this dysfunctional dynamic for both sides of this issue, set everyone up to succeed through admirable trait focus.
    I agree with this too. I think that another danger in seeking to emulate a role model, rather than focusing on the traits they embody, is that it puts the goal somewhere outside of oneself. I think we typically admire people who are self-actualised and embody positive traits. But self-actualisation and cultivating those positive traits will look different when applied to our own circumstances compared to the role model's. You shouldn't strive to be another person. You should strive to be the best version of yourself.

    Before clicking on this thread, I thought that the question was going to ask who our role models are. I think I've looked up to a range of people in my life, but when I look for unifying themes, the main ones are: people who are creatively active, self-possessed, have integrity, and are generally a force for good in the world.
    Likes rav3n liked this post

  10. #10
    Queer Coded Cat The Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    MBTI
    LGBT
    Posts
    24,462

    Default

    Who is a role model 2019?
    I am the Cat who walks by themself; and all places are alike to me...

    For the cat is cryptic,
    and close to strange things which men cannot see.
    They are the soul of antique Aegyptus,
    and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir.
    They are the kin of the jungle’s lords,
    and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa.
    The Sphinx is their cousin, and they speak her language;
    but they are more ancient than the Sphinx,
    and remember that which she hath forgotten...


Similar Threads

  1. Who is good at math?
    By The Ü™ in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 44
    Last Post: 08-15-2019, 03:57 AM
  2. Who are Your Role Models?
    By Kullervo in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 08-26-2016, 03:10 AM
  3. [MBTItm] Role Model mimicking
    By FaboVI in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-05-2008, 08:59 PM
  4. Who is the most protective type?
    By kathara in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 10-22-2007, 11:59 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO