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  1. #51
    Senior Member Aerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrawberryBoots View Post
    Your question is ambiguous. You mentioned hair and makeup shielding one from a threat, so I'm imagining how to get dolled-up for an unwanted date:

    I dont think the question was ambiguous as much as it was just generalized in order to include a wide variety, or sort of a catch all. As for makeup, some women do use it to make themselves more intimidating, or they use beauty as a defense mechanism and makeup is part of that for them.
    When life gives you flames, forge a sword and purify yourself like gold.

    "People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. There's nothing any of us can do about it." Dr. Gregory House

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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    I dont think the question was ambiguous as much as it was just generalized in order to include a wide variety, or sort of a catch all. As for makeup, some women do use it to make themselves more intimidating, or they use beauty as a defense mechanism and makeup is part of that for them.
    I agree. OP said that our "armor" could include "anything that makes us feel safe" and/or a "security object" that we carry everywhere. So I was reading "fashion, makeup, hairstyles, accessories" in that context.

    For example, when I was an executive in a big bureaucracy, my power suits and shiny shoes and other "official" accessories and trappings were an armor of sorts. On my own turf, no one messed with me. Even outside the office and around the city in general, people recognized the power suit and the "official business" look and showed it some respect. By comparison, I dressed more casually on weekends and outside work, and I felt more vulnerable then. When I looked like just one more ordinary old tourist in the city, anyone could get in my face.

    As I figured it, I wasn't trying to be a snob or anything by wearing the power suit. It's just that life is easier in a power suit, so why not. "The clothes make the man," and all that.

    So, getting back to what I quoted at the top of the post, I figure some women might get a similar feeling from being fully made-up and accessorized: They may feel more ready to get out and face the world. (At least that might have been the case in the old days, though maybe not so much anymore with the new emphasis on egalitarianism and casual appearance.)

    Anyways, I'm an old, single retiree these days. No more power suits. As an old retiree, my armor these days is good boundaries. Now that I'm retired, I don't have to run around and jump through hoops to earn anyone's approval. So I only frequent people and places that are legitimately fun. Or at a minimum, courteous. If people aren't fun or at least courteous, I blow them off and go elsewhere. No use hanging around with people I don't like. Thanks to the interwebz, there are a million things to do--meetup groups, social centers, hobby groups, book clubs, activity centers, etc. I check out lots of different social events, and I stick with the few where the events are fun and the people seem cool. I try not to be paranoid--I give most events a few chances. But if the event is consistently dull or the people are a drag after a few try-outs, then I'm out of there. Life is short, and I'm not going to invest if the return is bad.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Aerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    OP also said that our "armor" could include "anything that makes us feel safe" and/or a "security object" that we carry everywhere. So I was reading "fashion, makeup, hairstyles, accessories" in that context.

    For example, when I was an executive in a big bureaucracy, my power suits and shiny shoes and other "official" accessories and trappings were an armor of sorts. On my own turf, no one messed with me. Even outside the office and around the city in general, people recognized the power suit and the "official business" look and showed it some respect. By comparison, I dressed more casually on weekends and outside work, and I felt more vulnerable then. When I looked like just one more ordinary old tourist in the city, anyone could get in my face.

    As I figured it, I wasn't trying to be a snob or anything by wearing the power suit. It's just that life is easier in a power suit, so why not. "The clothes make the man," and all that.

    So, getting back to what I quoted at the top of the post, I figure some women might get a similar feeling from being fully made-up and accessorized: They may feel more ready to get out and face the world. (At least that might have been the case in the old days, though maybe not so much anymore with the new emphasis on egalitarianism and casual appearance.)

    Anyways, I'm an old, single retiree these days. No more power suits. As an old retiree, my armor these days is good boundaries. Now that I'm retired, I don't have to run around and jump through hoops to earn anyone's approval. So I only frequent people and places that are legitimately fun. Or at a minimum, courteous. If people aren't fun or at least courteous, I blow them off and go elsewhere. No use hanging around with people I don't like. Thanks to the interwebz, there are a million things to do--meetup groups, social centers, hobby groups, book clubs, activity centers, etc. I check out lots of different social events, and I stick with the few where the events are fun and the people seem cool. I try not to be paranoid--I give most events a few chances. But if the event is consistently dull or the people are a drag after a few try-outs, then I'm out of there. Life is short, and I'm not going to invest if the return is bad.
    It was interesting to read about yours and you're probably right about women doing that. I was also thinking about adding they probably use beauty for favor / getting what they want. People--especially men--treat pretty girls differently.
    When life gives you flames, forge a sword and purify yourself like gold.

    "People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. There's nothing any of us can do about it." Dr. Gregory House

    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” — Arthur Conan Doyle
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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    It was interesting to read about yours and you're probably right about women doing that. I was also thinking about adding they probably use beauty for favor / getting what they want. People--especially men--treat pretty girls differently.
    Yes, there's that too. It's all kind of rolled together under the "appearances" rubric: Pecking order, preferential treatment, sex appeal, competitive edge, currying favor in the sense of being pleasing to the eye, etc.

    Hence the expression, "The clothes make the man." It's just a fact of life that appearances are always going to be a big factor in how people judge you. In my own case, given that I was living and working in a high-profile job in a big city for a quarter century, it seemed crazy to ignore or discard that kind of advantage.

    Naturally, I'm not saying that it's the *only* way to get ahead. I'm just saying that I read the OP that way based on my own experiences.
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  5. #55
    Senior Member Aerix's Avatar
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    Gothic style is another example of using makeup / clothing as armor. Some do it to try to scare / intimidate people. @StrawberryBoots
    Last edited by Aerix; 10-03-2019 at 06:25 PM. Reason: grammar
    When life gives you flames, forge a sword and purify yourself like gold.

    "People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. There's nothing any of us can do about it." Dr. Gregory House

    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” — Arthur Conan Doyle
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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    Gothic style is another example of using makeup / clothing as a armor. Some do it to try to scare / intimidate people. @StrawberryBoots
    I would call that a uniform, or maybe "tribal" outfit. It's like wearing a military uniform around town. (I spent seven years in the military.) Your outfit proclaims that you're a member of a certain tribe and the code you live by. If your tribe is a fringe group, maybe there's also a tacit challenge to the world that you don't give a shit when people don't like you as a result.

    Anyway that's part of the social aspect of "armor": Using "tribal" in-group and out-group dynamics to stake out a social rank. My power suit put me in the in-group, whereas goth wear puts people in the out-group. Hopefully both the goth person and I have the ability to connect and communicate with each other despite the differences created by our appearances, but if not, oh well. We made our separate beds, and we'll lie in them. You reap what you sow.

    Also, one could say the same about scowling and giving off a chilly attitude as opposed to being courteous and friendly: It's not necessarily a tribal thing, but it's an appearance-related cue that we use to signal accessibility and in-group vs out-group status.

    Just being philosophical here.
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  7. #57
    Senior Member Aerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    I would call that a uniform, or maybe "tribal" outfit. It's like wearing a military uniform around town. (I spent seven years in the military.) Your outfit proclaims that you're a member of a certain tribe and the code you live by. If your tribe is a fringe group, maybe there's also a tacit challenge to the world that you don't give a shit when people don't like you as a result.

    Anyway that's part of the social aspect of "armor": Using "tribal" in-group and out-group dynamics to stake out a social rank. My power suit put me in the in-group, whereas goth wear puts people in the out-group. Hopefully both the goth person and I have the ability to connect and communicate with each other despite the differences created by our appearances, but if not, oh well. We made our separate beds, and we'll lie in them. You reap what you sow.

    Also, one could say the same about scowling and giving off a chilly attitude as opposed to being courteous and friendly: It's not necessarily a tribal thing, but it's an appearance-related cue that we use to signal accessibility and in-group vs out-group status.

    Just being philosophical here.

    Ehh...partially, but being goth isn't really about that for everybody, and whether you're in or out is relative to your perspective because you're out with one group and in with another. Personally, in my goth teen phase, I didn't think about or care about social groups whatsoever. I had my own reasons. Different people gravitate toward it for different reasons. It's also not so black and white, I was more accepted by others during that phase than I was before it. I was more "out" before I was goth, in other words. I don't think it can be categorized as a uniform though, it's really more of a lifestyle for a lot of people.
    When life gives you flames, forge a sword and purify yourself like gold.

    "People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. There's nothing any of us can do about it." Dr. Gregory House

    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” — Arthur Conan Doyle

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hexcoder View Post
    Ehh...partially, but being goth isn't really about that for everybody. Different people gravitate toward it for different reasons. I don't think it can be categorized as a uniform though, it's really more of a lifestyle for a lot of people.
    I definitely agree. By the same token, being in the military is a lifestyle rather than just a "wearing of the uniform."

    But I'm not talking about lifestyle here. I'm just referring to how the rest of the world sees such tribal memberships from the outside. That's what the OP is really about, in my opinion: Appearances, and how we manipulate them for personal security reasons. We join the military or adopt goth style or take a high-profile job for the lifestyle, but outsiders don't see that part of it. They just see the appearances and judge accordingly.

    In short: In my head, the topic of "armor" focuses more on appearances rather than actual lifestyle.
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  9. #59
    Senior Member Aerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    I definitely agree. Being in the military is a lifestyle rather than just a "wearing of the uniform."

    I'm just referring to how the rest of the world sees such tribal memberships from the outside. That's what the OP is really about, in my opinion: Appearances, and how we manipulate them for personal security reasons. We join the military or the goth world for the lifestyle, but outsiders don't see that part of it. They just see the appearances and judge accordingly.

    In short: In my head, the topic of "armor" focuses more on appearances than actual lifestyle.
    Sorry. See edit. I added more before I saw your reply.
    When life gives you flames, forge a sword and purify yourself like gold.

    "People don't get what they deserve. They just get what they get. There's nothing any of us can do about it." Dr. Gregory House

    “It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” — Arthur Conan Doyle
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  10. #60
    Vulnera Sanentur Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by YUI View Post
    But I'm not talking about lifestyle here. I'm just referring to how the rest of the world sees such tribal memberships from the outside. That's what the OP is really about, in my opinion: Appearances, and how we manipulate them for personal security reasons. We join the military or adopt goth style or take a high-profile job for the lifestyle, but outsiders don't see that part of it. They just see the appearances and judge accordingly.

    In short: In my head, the topic of "armor" focuses more on appearances rather than actual lifestyle.
    Real armor (e.g. body armor, chain mail) must have more than the correct appearance to protect the wearer. It must be able to sustain or at least mitigate the damage from an attack, so the wearer remains un- or less affected. Figurative armor will likewise not work if rooted simply in appearance. Sure, the appearance alone in either case may deter some attacks, but if that is all there is, an attack actually launched will strike its mark and hurt.

    So I would say armor in this context must include not so much one's lifestyle as one's manner, at least the manner one adopts when one wants the protection afforded by armor. Whether it is your power suit, or a woman's makeup and accessories, or something else, there must be something beneath that outer layer that can handle an actual attack or imposition when deterrence doesn't work. This constitutes a functional component in addition to the outward appearance.

    In my case, I generally have a rather blank, neutral expression (some say "INTJ stare"), avoid eye contact, and give off what you might call a cold, "keep your distance" attitude, but that is just the surface. Someone who ignores that to initiate contact will be met with a distant formality that keeps them from getting any closer, and brings the encounter to a speedy conclusion. It also reassures them that I am no threat to them, not interested in them, and they can safely go on their way without a second thought. This works also when I must initiate the exchange.
    Though the ground was burnt and everything turned into ashes, we will revive again. The sky is still blue, the crashing waves from long ago are unchanged. This is Earth, our planet. This dream is in the hearts of people; so long as they do not abandon it, it will not fade away. For the sake of tomorrow, keep a song in your heart. For the sake of our future, let us stop our crying and stand on our ground firmly.
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