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Nonverbal communication: how significant is it?

Coriolis

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Considering the coin toss results, your strategy of verification is a good one. But IMO, this does reinforce that there's no one size fits all, that people who have difficulty reading body language should verify and people who don't, won't necessarily need to verify.
Until they run across someone they think they can read, but then cannot. Responsible people recalibrate and adjust; others keep insisting that their (mis)interpretation is correct, however much it diverges from the actual meaning of the other person.
 

rav3n

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Until they run across someone they think they can read, but then cannot. Responsible people recalibrate and adjust; others keep insisting that their (mis)interpretation is correct, however much it diverges from the actual meaning of the other person.
This appears to be a narrow perspective, believing that people must behave in a particular manner. You're aware that even if you ask, people might not tell you the truth.
 

Metis

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Until they run across someone they think they can read, but then cannot. Responsible people recalibrate and adjust; others keep insisting that their (mis)interpretation is correct, however much it diverges from the actual meaning of the other person.

That is a source of a lot of trouble.

Example:

When I was a kid, people would comment that I looked angry when I wasn't. One day, the principal's husband came and spoke at a school assembly, and he misinterpreted my body language as "hostile". No one consulted with me about this, but my mother was called in to the principal's office to discuss it.

The principal and her husband had arrived at the notion that perhaps I was hostile toward men in general, and that maybe this meant I had been sexually abused by one.

The principal told my mother her concerns and strongly urged her to take me to a counselor. She did, and she left me alone with the counselor. The counselor wanted me to play with toys in a small sandbox, and while she kept me occupied with that, she asked me questions.

When she asked me if my father ever "touched me in a funny way" (or whatever similar phrasing she used), I knew exactly what she was asking, because I already knew about sex. I also was aware of Freud's idea of the Oedipal Complex. (My mother had explained sex to me, very straightforwardly, when I was about 5, and I knew about the idea of the Oedipal Complex from books that she would leave lying around.) I was embarrassed by the counselor's question, but I answered her frankly, and said, "No."

She let me continue playing with the sandbox toys, and she asked some questions that were probably "filler" questions. Then she got back to the point. Not 10 minutes after the first time, she asked me again, the same question.

At that point, I was terrified, because I had already answered and told her that he didn't. Why was she asking again? She must not have believed me when I'd said no. Most likely, she was just doing her due diligence, because kids sometimes deny having been molested when they have been, and she just wanted to make sure. But I didn't know that. I just thought she didn't believe me.

My father never did anything of that sort. But it briefly occurred to me to answer the counselor with a glib joke, and if I had answered with the line that I was thinking of, there could have been horrible results. Fortunately, I didn't, and I just answered "no" again. But I went away thinking that she was convinced that I'd been molested, and that she was going to tell as much to my mother and my teachers.

Just because some adult man who didn't even know me thought I was scowling at him.



---edit---



I'll clarify that I didn't know about molestation as such, or the likely consequences to my father if accused. I knew about the Oedipal Complex, and my horror wasn't at the thought that my father could be accused; it was at the idea that I would be thought, by my teachers and others, to be romantically attracted to my father. I was terrified of that reputation. That's why it was only lucky that I didn't implicate him by joking around with the counselor. I had no idea, at the time, of the way that would have affected an innocent man.
 

Yuurei

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Although there are a few body language gestures that you still misread, for the most part, you are fairly skilled at reading non-verbal signals. With a little more knowledge and practice, you can turn this skill into a strength. You try to be attentive to both verbal and non-verbal body language because you understand the concept that actions can often speak louder than words. This skill will be very useful in your interactions with others and allow you to better understand and empathize with people.
 

Coriolis

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This appears to be a narrow perspective, believing that people must behave in a particular manner. You're aware that even if you ask, people might not tell you the truth.
Of course. That is their prerogative. In that case, I just work with what they do give me and take it at face value, unless overridden by unambiguous observable events. If they are unhappy with the outcome, oh well - they had a chance to be more up front about things.

That is a source of a lot of trouble.

Example:

When I was a kid, people would comment that I looked angry when I wasn't. One day, the principal's husband came and spoke at a school assembly, and he misinterpreted my body language as "hostile". No one consulted with me about this, but my mother was called in to the principal's office to discuss it.

The principal and her husband had arrived at the notion that perhaps I was hostile toward men in general, and that maybe this meant I had been sexually abused by one.
This is a great, if extreme, example of how things can go wrong when we make assumptions based on such ambiguous "cues".
 

Madboot

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Of course. That is their prerogative. In that case, I just work with what they do give me and take it at face value, unless overridden by unambiguous observable events. If they are unhappy with the outcome, oh well - they had a chance to be more up front about things.

Agreed. If someone chooses to be dishonest, then the failure in communication is theirs.
 

rav3n

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Of course. That is their prerogative. In that case, I just work with what they do give me and take it at face value, unless overridden by unambiguous observable events. If they are unhappy with the outcome, oh well - they had a chance to be more up front about things.
Your initial point about my suggestion was inaccuracy. If people lie to you which happens often when you ask them something, there's still no accuracy, regardless of prerogative or not.

You do it your way, I'll do it mine. Neither way is perfect but considering our differing strengths and weaknesses, it's pretty obvious why each of us chose our strategies.
 

Coriolis

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Your initial point about my suggestion was inaccuracy. If people lie to you which happens often when you ask them something, there's still no accuracy, regardless of prerogative or not.

You do it your way, I'll do it mine. Neither way is perfect but considering our differing strengths and weaknesses, it's pretty obvious why each of us chose our strategies.
Yes and no. I am getting an accurate picture of what they want me to see. I can all but guarantee that any attempt by me to guess what the underlying truth is will be no more accurate, and will likely only compound the problem by appearing intrusive or disrespectful. It all comes down to respecting someone enough to take them at face value, and not second-guess. If their decision to lie or obfuscate backfires on them, oh well.
 

rav3n

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Yes and no. I am getting an accurate picture of what they want me to see. I can all but guarantee that any attempt by me to guess what the underlying truth is will be no more accurate, and will likely only compound the problem by appearing intrusive or disrespectful. It all comes down to respecting someone enough to take them at face value, and not second-guess. If their decision to lie or obfuscate backfires on them, oh well.
It's your choice to believe a lie. :shrugs:
 

Metis

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Yes and no. I am getting an accurate picture of what they want me to see. I can all but guarantee that any attempt by me to guess what the underlying truth is will be no more accurate, and will likely only compound the problem by appearing intrusive or disrespectful. It all comes down to respecting someone enough to take them at face value, and not second-guess. If their decision to lie or obfuscate backfires on them, oh well.

This is a problem when the person is lying about somebody else, or doing sneaky, manipulative things that affect other people and lying about it to the third, neutral party.
 

Coriolis

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It's your choice to believe a lie. :shrugs:
It certainly is. How I act is my choice, too, and a separate one.

This is a problem when the person is lying about somebody else, or doing sneaky, manipulative things that affect other people and lying about it to the third, neutral party.
That it is. Unless I have credible evidence as to what the truth is, however, assumptions on my part are as likely to make matters worse as to help.
 

Metis

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That it is. Unless I have credible evidence as to what the truth is, however, assumptions on my part are as likely to make matters worse as to help.

By believing the lies that the person or people were telling you, accepting them at face value, you would be making assumptions. That's an assumption--the assumption that they're telling the truth.
 

rav3n

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It certainly is. How I act is my choice, too, and a separate one.
As it is my choice to behave as I wish. I'm not the one with the narrow focus. My perspective is one of diversity.

People who aren't good at reading body language, shouldn't rely on their body language reading, such as yourself. Verification is a good idea. That said, verification doesn't equate to accuracy since people lie all the time.

Myself, I do okay and according to the two different tests, am very good so I will rely on this strength even though it's not bullet proof. But my life experiences have proven to me that it's been a good strategy for me since I don't get fooled very often, particularly by car salesmen. Perhaps I can introduce you my friend who owns a luxury car dealership. I'm sure his best salesman can help you.
 

Coriolis

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By believing the lies that the person or people were telling you, accepting them at face value, you would be making assumptions. That's an assumption--the assumption that they're telling the truth.

I don't have to accept what someone is saying as truth in order to understand it is the placeholder I need to work with in order to make progress, progress that often includes uncovering the truth. This is much like calling a bluff.
 

Coriolis

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As it is my choice to behave as I wish. I'm not the one with the narrow focus. My perspective is one of diversity.

People who aren't good at reading body language, shouldn't rely on their body language reading, such as yourself. Verification is a good idea. That said, verification doesn't equate to accuracy since people lie all the time.

Myself, I do okay and according to the two different tests, am very good so I will rely on this strength even though it's not bullet proof. But my life experiences have proven to me that it's been a good strategy for me since I don't get fooled very often, particularly by car salesmen. Perhaps I can introduce you my friend who owns a luxury car dealership. I'm sure his best salesman can help you.
There is more than one way to avoid being fooled by the likes of salesmen. You can beat them at their own game, or as I prefer, refuse to play. I do my homework, set my terms, and walk if they are not met. Does wonders to cut through sales BS. Worked for 4 cars now and counting.
 

Metis

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There is more than one way to avoid being fooled by the likes of salesmen. You can beat them at their own game, or as I prefer, refuse to play. I do my homework, set my terms, and walk if they are not met. Does wonders to cut through sales BS. Worked for 4 cars now and counting.

I love this advice.


I don't have to accept what someone is saying as truth in order to understand it is the placeholder I need to work with in order to make progress, progress that often includes uncovering the truth. This is much like calling a bluff.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, though. How do you go about that--using what the person said as a placeholder and using it to find out the truth?
 

Bush

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I'm not sure what you're saying here, though. How do you go about that--using what the person said as a placeholder and using it to find out the truth?
Can't speak for her, but I could see how you can use what they say at face value as an 'anchor.' A starting point. That is, assume that they're telling the truth, at face value, until you gather enough evidence and/or reasoning and/or feeling-instinct -- each of those to the extent you're 'capable' and give the most weight -- to convince yourself otherwise.
 

Red Memories

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I think body language and verbal language can be a 50/50 thing.

But I also think a lot of time verbal and body language speak at the same time. If someone slaps you and says shut up you should probably shut the hell up you know. XD

But in general people's bodies DO speak and I think you can see certain things by analyzing how their body responds. So I think it is important. Many things go unspoken.
 

Coriolis

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I'm not sure what you're saying here, though. How do you go about that--using what the person said as a placeholder and using it to find out the truth?
You act as if it were true, even though you know or at least suspect it is not.
 

Tilt

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Hmmm... Interesting. I have purposely misled people by using body language to help confirm their biases... and I don't have to say a thing. And these are people who swear up and down that they are skilled at reading body language.
 
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