User Tag List

123 Last

Results 1 to 10 of 30

  1. #1
    To the waters of the wild Siúil a Rún's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    496 sx/sp
    Posts
    13,302

    Default Unique Perceptions of Language

    Over the years, I've read interesting posts by various members that describe their unique way of relating to language. I remember some people visualize the words they hear, and other similar types of unique perceptions. I have a somewhat unique way of relating to language, which I'll share later. It could make for an interesting discussion that includes absolutely anything you consider unique in your relationship to language.
    I wish I was on yonder hill 'tis there I'd sit and cry my fill, And every tear would turn a mill, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I'll sell my rock, I'll sell my reel, I'll sell my only spinning wheel, To buy my love a sword of steel Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I wish, I wish, I wish in vain, I wish I had my heart again, And vainly think I'd not complain, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    Likes magpie, Hiraeth, Lady Lazarus liked this post

  2. #2
    To the waters of the wild Siúil a Rún's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    496 sx/sp
    Posts
    13,302

    Default

    Okay, so here's mine. I don't know any particular definition for it, but it has a lot to do with the particular way I relate to the concrete and abstract.

    I tend to be conscious of any arbitrary abstraction and find it burdensome to process. Language is completely imbued with arbitrary abstraction because the vast majority of words have no inherent relationship to what they identify in sound or appearance. The areas of language which are extensions of the literal are metaphor, poetic timbre, and onomatopoeia.


    I long for a language that is based on onomatopoeia. The vast amount of arbitrary abstraction in language creates a level of anxiety in me when I try to read or formulate ideas. For this reason I think my language skills are one of my lowest areas of intelligence, but I do have a natural inclination towards poetry. I especially like word usage that focuses on timbre and rhythm to convey the meaning, poetry that is musical. It is also why I excel in the language of music because it is extending the concrete and emotional realms into a language that is arguably based on something related to onomatopoeia.

    I also love metaphor because it extends reality in a way that provides a deeper look into the actual nature of what it describes. It is a way of making language more closely connected to an actual experience of an idea. I know everyone equates metaphor with abstract thinking, but I think it is one of the most concrete forms of abstraction. You are never disconnected from the source, and it provides a deeper lens to more fully see the source.

    I love animal language and could delve deeply into studying whale song and such because there is a tendency for the sounds of animal language to closely represent the emotion or action of its idea. This also enables me to have some intuitive sense about what animals are communicating.

    There are negative aspects of feeling burdened by arbitrary abstractions because it makes it difficult for me to read long novels and complex philosophies. I avoided classes that required intensive reading, and I don't propose it is a good thing in me, but just something about the way my brain works. I also don't know if it is function related or means I'm a little neuro-atypical.
    I wish I was on yonder hill 'tis there I'd sit and cry my fill, And every tear would turn a mill, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I'll sell my rock, I'll sell my reel, I'll sell my only spinning wheel, To buy my love a sword of steel Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    I wish, I wish, I wish in vain, I wish I had my heart again, And vainly think I'd not complain, Iss guh day thoo avorneen slawn.
    Likes magpie, Hiraeth, Lord Lavender, fatgurl liked this post

  3. #3
    ⋆✦⋆ Hiraeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    1,736

    Default

    I can relate to having difficulties reading longer books and complex abstractions. I had reading comprehension issues when I was younger, and I remember once complaining to a third grade teacher of mine how I had trouble processing what I was reading when there were no pictures. Pictures were guiding points for me to be able to understand the context better. I still have it rough at times when reading certain passages in books where I have to go over a paragraph multiple times just to make sure I'd understand the gist of what's going on. I have to really focus my attention almost 100% on what I am reading, and if not, any little distractions like listening to music would make me have to try harder and read at a much slower pace than usual. I've always envied people who were able to multi-task while reading and not have to sacrifice their skill at it.

    Something else I've noticed is that I did have an easier time understanding a story when it was read by someone else, BUT they had to be animated in their delivery and physically present. Is that also at least somewhat related to onomatopoeia, I wonder? The reader had to have captured my interest and attention so that I'd be able to process what I was hearing well enough. But I wouldn't say I'm an auditory learner. Definitely visual, first and foremost. I've also wondered if this is function related too, or if it's just derived from a learning disability?

    Language in general was never my strong suit. I am a heavy visual person, although I also have a good ear for sound, and always was able to replicate what I heard either through voice or instrument. It's also interesting how you mention metaphors are a more concrete form of abstraction. I tend to use them when I'm unable to find the appropriate words to use and am only able to think of the next closest thing to describe the idea, and it's through a visual image in my mind that works in a similar fashion. So I'd use the metaphor from my mind to describe the general idea in hopes that my description would be a little more simpler to understand than by just directly saying it.

    To be honest, I've always thought language would be something you'd excel at, as if it would come almost effortlessly for you. You seem very well-equipped in it and I would have never thought you'd have difficulties formulating abstractions and writing about them too, so this caught me a bit by surprise coming from you.

  4. #4
    Potential is My Addiction Dreamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    794
    Socionics
    IEE Ne
    Posts
    4,916

    Default

    Oh! This is a fun topic

    I actually have a similar view to you @labyrinthine regarding the use of metaphor. To me, using metaphors to describe something isn't all that abstract. I feel though the concept you are trying to describe may be abstract, using metaphor is a way to ground that idea in a way that others could understand. I would say the second you are able to attach a parallel relationship to that idea, that idea is no longer within the abstract. Heck, that's how I understand things, is through metaphor. I'm constantly thinking in terms of these relationships.


    How this relates to language is not always best for other people since I tend to make up words and definitions on the fly, and the definitions applied are dependent on the context in which those words are strung together. I made up a few different languages as a kid even haha. But, what good is an idea if you can't communicate that idea to others and to get it out there into the world, so I have gotten much better at tailoring my words and approach so most anyone can understand them, but I still have flubs of course.


    But returning to metaphor use, it's how I think, so it's only natural I would speak in a similar way. Not always by using literal metaphors, but in how I play with words as well. I feel like there is a certain rhythm to words and certain contexts require the use of this word or that, even if they mean the same thing. At this point, I'm not selecting the appropriate word based on precise definition, but how it flows and fits in with the overall message I wish to convey.
    The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams
    -Eleanor Roosevelt


    ~Always, an Enthusiastic_Dreamer

  5. #5
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Enneagram
    614 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Fi
    Posts
    3,464

    Default

    The word and the object or concept have a parallel relationship. The word is not the object/concept and nor is it necessarily a representation of the concept/object. The word exists on its own as its own evocative idea and occupies some space beyond or above a literal representation. It's its own being with its own unique existence as something that nothing else is. The meaning and the idea, however, are still clear.

    The above is very apparent if you compare the "same" words in different languages. They aren't really the same words and they do actually have different meanings due to differences in cultures. Due to the way words shape reality and perception. So two words representing the same "thing" actually represent different things. The words are the things.

    Also, some languages have words that other languages don't. They evoke something a speaker not fluent simply doesn't have a name for. Can that be translated from one language to another? I'd say no, not wholly. It inherently loses its meaning. Not because its representation doesn't exist for the fluent speaker but does for the non-fluent speaker, but because the word itself, which has its own meaning and is its own thing entirely, exists for one and not the other.

    In that way, language is so abstract that it goes full circle and becomes concrete. (If this makes no sense, it's because I got two hours of sleep last night and have been taking benadryl all day. It makes sense to me but that doesn't count for much, given I'm the one writing this.)

  6. #6
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Enneagram
    614 sx/so
    Socionics
    ILI Fi
    Posts
    3,464

    Default

    Oh, I can also taste some words in my mouth as I'm speaking them. I've lost a lot of that ability now though, I think due to neuron die off in my brain. (I think part of the reason I swear a lot is because swear words taste good. Don't judge me.)
    Likes Siúil a Rún, Xann, RadicalDoubt liked this post

  7. #7

    Default

    I notice I can barely get through a paragraph without using metaphors. I like reconstructing bland sentences into something colorful. I also find my thoughts when expressed through writing hold more than one meaning. It is frustrating at times. What I think is me conveying something in a clear cut fashion is actually a statement veiled in subtleties. The thought seems like it's looming in neon brilliance from my perspective because it was so strong as I wrote the words. Meanwhile in reality, the reader interprets it like a flicker of candlelight in a distant window on a stormy evening. Needless to say I do a lot of editing when commenting.
    ”The Future’s So Bright, I Gotta Wear Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses.”
    Likes Siúil a Rún liked this post

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    The word and the object or concept have a parallel relationship. The word is not the object/concept and nor is it necessarily a representation of the concept/object. The word exists on its own as its own evocative idea and occupies some space beyond or above a literal representation. It's its own being with its own unique existence as something that nothing else is. The meaning and the idea, however, are still clear.

    The above is very apparent if you compare the "same" words in different languages. They aren't really the same words and they do actually have different meanings due to differences in cultures. Due to the way words shape reality and perception. So two words representing the same "thing" actually represent different things. The words are the things.

    Also, some languages have words that other languages don't. They evoke something a speaker not fluent simply doesn't have a name for. Can that be translated from one language to another? I'd say no, not wholly. It inherently loses its meaning. Not because its representation doesn't exist for the fluent speaker but does for the non-fluent speaker, but because the word itself, which has its own meaning and is its own thing entirely, exists for one and not the other.

    In that way, language is so abstract that it goes full circle and becomes concrete. (If this makes no sense, it's because I got two hours of sleep last night and have been taking benadryl all day. It makes sense to me but that doesn't count for much, given I'm the one writing this.)
    The translation between English and Japanese proves this point well. Single characters in Japanese can convey entire concepts.
    ”The Future’s So Bright, I Gotta Wear Joo Janta 200 Super-Chromatic Peril Sensitive Sunglasses.”
    Likes magpie liked this post

  9. #9
    Mastermind Fieldmarshal Sacrophagus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    MBTI
    ENTJ
    Enneagram
    854
    Posts
    1,772

    Default

    I asked myself once : If there was no language, how would the process of thought occur?

    Growing as a child, and as a passive introverted with keen observation skills, I used to delve a lot in differentiated intuitive thoughts seemingly wordless, in an embryonic shape. Language allowed me to place ideas into words, and still, the profoundness of abstract thinking rendered me addicted to a rather idiosyncratic habit : Neologism.

    The teacher would find me using peculiar words of my own making, and if not, she's always expecting me to ask at some point "Is there a word for doing this thing if that thing is absent but the other is not?". Her patience was phenomenal.

    It's a fact nonetheless, that a huge part of our thoughts and emotions is lost in linguistic translation. Words can never be enough, in addedum to the conflictual notion they can hold, an ostensibly asunder polysemy, different meanings to different people, the initial message is unlikely to be transmitted completely. The rest is up to the imagination and our subjective entanglement at the moment of receiving the message.

    Our decryption of the said message is related to our proper understanding and current interpretation of our present reality. The same succession of words holds other meanings as we grow and experience, which is rather fascinating.
    Likes magpie, Siúil a Rún liked this post

  10. #10
    Queer Coded Cat The Cat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    24,958

    Default

    words have power; I treat them accordingly...
    I am the Cat who walks by themself; and all places are alike to me...

    For the cat is cryptic,
    and close to strange things which men cannot see.
    They are the soul of antique Aegyptus,
    and bearer of tales from forgotten cities in Meroë and Ophir.
    They are the kin of the jungle’s lords,
    and heir to the secrets of hoary and sinister Africa.
    The Sphinx is their cousin, and they speak her language;
    but they are more ancient than the Sphinx,
    and remember that which she hath forgotten...

    Likes Population: 1 liked this post

Similar Threads

  1. Type and perception of facial expression poll
    By JAVO in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: 08-16-2009, 05:55 PM
  2. [ENFP] ENFPs and perception of "well-likedness"
    By autumn in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 10-16-2008, 08:45 PM
  3. Perception of death if we were "medically immortal"
    By Martoon in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 04-02-2008, 07:39 PM
  4. Perception of two groups
    By Athenian200 in forum General Psychology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-17-2007, 11:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO