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View Poll Results: When you think "feminism", what do you think of?

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  • I generaly think of it positively (please explain)

    33 38.37%
  • I generaly think of it negatively (please explain)

    21 24.42%
  • I'm admantly for it

    12 13.95%
  • I'm adamantly against it

    12 13.95%
  • I'm somewhere in the middle (please explain)

    17 19.77%
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Thread: Toxic Feminism

  1. #741
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    This presumes people act rationally. It should be quite plain that they do not.
    Women supposedly get paid less for the same work, and yet they're still not being hired more often because businesses across the board are irrational and not fully motivated to make money? I find it hard to believe that no sector within any industry was able to identify this supposedly irrational behavior in order to outperform the competition.

  2. #742
    Liberator Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dep View Post
    Women supposedly get paid less for the same work, and yet they're still not being hired more often because businesses across the board are irrational and not fully motivated to make money? I find it hard to believe that no sector within any industry was able to identify this supposedly irrational behavior in order to outperform the competition.
    It may happen on a case by case basis. I don't see a trend. It didn't work with blacks or any other group underrepresented in various industries/occupations, and it didn't work with women. From what I have read, though, most of the remaining wage gap is not due to men and women with identical experience being paid differently for doing identical work, though some of that probably persists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Consilience View Post
    I believe in the idea of equality but I think biological sexes are more complementary as opposed to innate equals. The differences in sex hormone distribution and sexual dimorphism contributes to certain subtle differences, on average. However, it doesn't mean one is better than the other.

    That said, everyone should be entitled to all the same civil liberties.
    Men and women are far more alike than they are different. Complementarity happens much more on an individual basis than by gender across the board, except in the instance of sexual reproduction. Physiological sex differences are undeniable in a statistical sense, but say very little about actual "macro" ability or preference. We will not know which, if any, of these are truly inherent until all external constraints have been removed, and we are still a long way from that, though we get closer with each generation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lark View Post
    Although, I dont think that equality needs to involve sameness and homogenizing, a lot of people seem to think it does, left and right, but I think that's a nightmare. I think the opposite in fact and some difference is a very good thing and deserves recognition instead.
    There will never be sameness/homogenizing, because of the many individual differences that go well beyond anything related to sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Still waiting.

    I agree with whoever said it.
    You shouldn't have to watch what you say around women. You should choose to watch what you say around anyone - male or female - whose respect you desire, who you want to see you as a well-mannered and articulate individual. Of course, if you don't care to be seen this way, then shoot your mouth off at will. (My father and husband had no patience for crude, vulgar talk either. I suspect I learned my preference from the former.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dep View Post
    How does this work? Freedoms, opportunity and liberty should should be gender neutral, but the process of 'holding others accountable' should be gender specific?
    You have never heard of "self-policing"? Professional societies, sports teams, friend groups, etc. do it quite often. You are confusing formal law and policy with the informal steps people take to improve their interactions with others and the environments in which they find themselves. More of the latter can often reduce the need for the former. That being said, I would encourage anyone who sees disrespectful, dangerous, or exploitive behavior to call it out, regardless of who is the victim and who the perpetrator.
    I've been called a criminal, a terrorist, and a threat to the known universe. But everything you were told is a lie. The truth is, they've taken our freedom, our home, and our future. The time has come for all humanity to take a stand...
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  3. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You are confusing formal law and policy with the informal steps people take to improve their interactions with others and the environments in which they find themselves.
    You were able to identify my supposed confusion between formal law and social reform, just because I decided to ask about why certain forms of 'social accountability' would need to be gender specific?
    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    I would encourage anyone who sees disrespectful, dangerous, or exploitive behavior to call it out, regardless of who is the victim and who the perpetrator.
    Ah, yes, now this makes more sense. So is calling out unruly behavior a form of "holding a person accountable", or would your claim here not be all that consistent with the one below?
    Men should be holding other men accountable when their conduct becomes problematic. Not women.

  4. #744
    Senior Member ceecee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dep View Post
    How does this work? Freedoms, opportunity and liberty should should be gender neutral, but the process of 'holding others accountable' should be gender specific?

    This type of 'accountability' reminds me of WWYD: *woman sees other woman abusing a guy*.... "Hmm, maybe you did something wrong?"

    Don't move the goalpost. Men holding men accountable dovetails perfectly with the other proclamations of men needing to do male activities and have male friends without being hassled by society. Self policing is also done by women to women. Please start a different thread about women abusing men, equal liberty and opportunity if that's what you want to discuss.
    I like to rock n' roll all night and *part* of every day. I usually have errands... I can only rock from like 1-3.
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  5. #745
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolis View Post
    You should choose to watch what you say around anyone - male or female - whose respect you desire, who you want to see you as a well-mannered and articulate individual. Of course, if you don't care to be seen this way, then shoot your mouth off at will. (My father and husband had no patience for crude, vulgar talk either. I suspect I learned my preference from the former.)
    I don't concern myself with that type of superficiality.
    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

  6. #746
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dep View Post
    How does this work? Freedoms, opportunity and liberty should be gender neutral, but the process of 'holding others accountable' should be gender specific?
    Cute, isn't it?
    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

  7. #747
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    I think toxic capitalism is a bigger problem than toxic feminism.
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  8. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Still waiting.
    Why? You must have other things to do. As do I and my real life takes precedence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Then say what you fucking meant. Having said that, my other post still stands. Should I pretend it's not true? No.
    I did. Twice: "...make discriminatory or derogatory statements about at person in their presence."
    ".. bitching about "all women are lazy C**** who should get back in the kitchen."

    ...is the sort of language I meant.

    I somewhat agree. I am known to tell a parent to "Mind your own fucking business." If they overhear me swearing in a public place they've decided to bring their children.
    But general swearing is far from using slurs and a derogatory terms to a persons face.

    "Treat X group as you would treat anyone" Implies that you treat most people with some basic respect to begin with. If you don't, then yeah, I guess it is asking for "special treatment" and I'd never ask anyone to be who they aren't.

    My ONLY point is that it is a logical fallacy and a poor excuse.
    It is pathetic for one with an "I'm a rebel I'll say whatever I want!" complex to make excuses. If your so brazen then own your shit and admit " Fuck you, I just don't care!""
    “ they’re on our left, they’re on our right, they’re in front of us, they’re behind us…they can’t get away this time”

    "These voices scream at me "Let it go!"
    (never let go)
    This time I'm screaming back "No! No! No!"
    (Go on say no)
    My mind's made up, yeah my fear is gone
    Open my eyes now here I come: Oblivion."

  9. #749
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuu View Post
    Why? You must have other things to do. As do I and my real life takes precedence.
    Will complain: "That's not what I fucking meant" but not explain why when asked and waits 24 hours to post snark. Fabulous, dahlink. Fabulous.
    It's not what you look at that matters, it's what you see.

  10. #750
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    I'm really surprised nobody has created a thread yet decrying this.

    To be fair, I suppose some hay could be made of this coming from Georgia-Pacific, of all places.
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