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Question for those good at reading people

Amargith

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Well I guess I was taking it from a therapist stand point, or even just a friend acting as an armchair therapist, like they tell you that you are one way, but what if you disagree with them? Who should be trusted more?


Nobody.

Often you dont yet see what they see because you re not ready yet. Or, they word it in a way that doesnt click with you. Or, they dont have the right contrxt to understand the part of you theyre responding to.

What i usually do is store the info and keep it in my backpocket for the future if i cannot make sense of it now. If they look like they didnt get the context or they re projecting due to their own emotional state at the time, i ll do the same but downgrade it. And i ll share my concern without dismissing their contribution outright.

Its not uncommon for me to later on revisit their words and self reflect whcih often causes it to click, once i reprocess it to my own style.
 

Siúil a Rúin

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Well I guess I was taking it from a therapist stand point, or even just a friend acting as an armchair therapist, like they tell you that you are one way, but what if you disagree with them? Who should be trusted more?
I know you directed this at someone else, but fwiw, I would say that ultimately each individual has the capacity to know the most about their own self, but we can have blindspots and defense mechanisms that keeps us from fully seeing our true selves.

I would say that if a therapist (or someone who seems to have insight into people) expresses an insight that doesn't ring true, I would recommend taking time to consider it as fully as you know how and if it still doesn't resonate, then dismiss it. While it is true that someone from the outside can see certain mental blocks and blindspots, still, only the actual person on the inside can fully know oneself. If you consider how much information we each have on our own lives - we are each the only person who has literally been there every second, experienced every dream, every emotional response, every experience. There is no amount of outside theory or familiarity that equates with that mountain of detail. What I think outside people and theory can bring to our understanding of self is mostly the bigger picture or structure and connections between the details. A therapist can identify someone who is using coping mechanisms to deal with pain, but they cannot comprehend the exact nature of that pain. If you think of your own self as a vast landscape, the outside insightful person could point out certain details or the overall pattern, but only you have experienced every inch of that landscape. I'm not sure if that is helpful, but it is how I understand it, which also refers to Carl Rogers philosophy of humanistic psychology.
 

Poki

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Nobody.

Often you dont yet see what they see because you re nit ready yet. Or, they word it in a way that doesnt click with you. Or, they do t have the right contrxt to understand the part of you theyre responding to.

What i usually do is store the inf and keep it in my backpocket for the future if i cannot make sense of it now. If they look like they didnt get the context or they re projecting due to their own emotional state at the time, i ll do the same but downgrade it. And i ll share my concern without dismissing their contribution outright.

Its not uncommon for ne to later on revisit their words and self reflect whcih often causes it to click, once i reprocess it to my own style.

Its part of building a framework of understanding. I do the same thing, its how i process everything. Its a fuzzyness you just continue to work at throughout life.
 

Poki

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Well I guess I was taking it from a therapist stand point, or even just a friend acting as an armchair therapist, like they tell you that you are one way, but what if you disagree with them? Who should be trusted more?

Me :laugh: because i can read you better then you can :laugh: oh...therapist...depends how well you fit their understanding.
 

thepink-cloakedninja

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Well I guess I was taking it from a therapist stand point, or even just a friend acting as an armchair therapist, like they tell you that you are one way, but what if you disagree with them? Who should be trusted more?

Whether or not the person is right or you are right really depends on the situation ...

In the therapist situation, say the patient (not you) had a mental disorder which caused him to view himself in a skewed manner. In this case, the therapist would probably be right.

In the friend situation, I'd say the odds of the friend being right are 50/50 if it's about something more abstract such as motivations as many people do have an incomplete inlook and others view people with different-colored glasses so ... If you really wanted, you could test the friend by having him/her "read" other people and see if they're right. :happy2:
 

Kanra Jest

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When I was young I was clueless. But once I reached around teenage years suddenly it clicked and I could read people much more naturally. I didn't look it all up and memorize the signs, I just kinda picked up on it. It's hard to explain...

I don't get hunches like the infj does. Not so much as .. visual cues? Tone of voice... Eyes tell SO much... Movements. But I don't think about it I just pick up on it and can usually tell when something is a bit off or different and adjust accordingly.
 

Habba

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My wife's an INFJ, and she does read people well. At least their motivations and feelings. She's often called people's problems before they brought them up. On the other hand, she's sometimes clueless when it comes to sarcasm and humorous comments. She is looking for meaning in everything, and where there is none, puzzles her deeply.
I on the other hand am much better at analyzing and understanding people. I work through stereotypes and typology. I figure out people's MBTI types and their value systems. Once I understabd those, I can understand great variey of people.
I also have a uncanny eye for games. I know people's movements before hand, and I'm usually prepared in advance for surprises.
 

ChocolateMoose123

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Okay, so this is a question directed at those who say that they can read people. Especially directed at NFJs since they seem to brag about this skill, but is really for anyone who believes they are good at understanding people.

Question: How do you know you are right?

Like how do you know that Susan secretly hates Barbra? How do you know whether someone has bad intention? Are you able to catch when you are wrong. What is the line between trusting your people intuition (not necessarily mbti intuition), and trusting what someone else says about them self?

Why should I believe that you are good at reading people?

*Unhealthy* NFJ's don't stop at just 'reading people'. They enact subtle or overt smear campaigns if the subject of their "read" isn't exhibiting what they "know" to be true.

I had a close friend reputation destroyed by a (tested) ENFJ who did this. They can do a lot of damage cultivating "social proof" of what they "know" without having a lick of actual proof.

Then their "reads" become "true" based on rumor alone. See, if more than one person is whispering the same things about someone it must have *some* truth to it and voila! That ENFJ was right all along! See!? :dry:

But NFJ's are excellent at sussing out motivations, in general. They do have that ability. What they do about it, separates healthy/unhealthy in my eyes. The unhealthy ones attribute their own bias to others motivations and close the case and it's a stone rolling downhill from there.
 

Lexicon

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*Unhealthy* NFJ's don't stop at just 'reading people'. They enact subtle or overt smear campaigns if the subject of their "read" isn't exhibiting what they "know" to be true.

I had a close friend reputation destroyed by a (tested) ENFJ who did this. They can do a lot of damage cultivating "social proof" of what they "know" without having a lick of actual proof.

Then they're "reads" become "true" based on rumor alone. See, if more than one person is whispering the same things about someone it must have *some* truth to it and voila! That ENFJ was right all along! See!? :dry:


But NFJ's are excellent at sussing out motivations, in general. They do have that ability. The unhealthy ones attribute their own bias to others motivations and it's a stone rolling downhill from there.

@bolded - sounds eerily similar to my experience with a very unhealthy ENFJ ex. He pulled that on friends & lovers alike. Especially when they publically undermined him/contradicted him in some way. Fuel for a baseless moral crusade to protect their fragile ego. It can get pretty manipulative.

I think any type can be capable of this, but NFJ's (or perhaps FJ's in general) do seem to have a talent for it.
 

Qlip

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I'm pretty good at reading people, but I never think of it as reading people. For me observing human activity and responses is a continual experiment, my interest is rarely to say, "Actually, Barb is clearly interested in Cedric." and leave it at that. When I say something like that, it's a hypothesis that I'm testing, and as I have gotten more experience and more data, they become more accurate.

When it comes to Barb's actual feelings and intentions, I wouldn't presume to be the ultimate judge of them, I'm happy to leave that to Jesus. But I will invariable trust my own read for my own plans and purposes. In my experience negotiating life is more working amidst the perpetually uncertain than ascertaining unquestionable truth.
 

OrangeAppled

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*Unhealthy* NFJ's don't stop at just 'reading people'. They enact subtle or overt smear campaigns if the subject of their "read" isn't exhibiting what they "know" to be true.

I had a close friend reputation destroyed by a (tested) ENFJ who did this. They can do a lot of damage cultivating "social proof" of what they "know" without having a lick of actual proof.

Then their "reads" become "true" based on rumor alone. See, if more than one person is whispering the same things about someone it must have *some* truth to it and voila! That ENFJ was right all along! See!? :dry:

But NFJ's are excellent at sussing out motivations, in general. They do have that ability. What they do about it, separates healthy/unhealthy in my eyes. The unhealthy ones attribute their own bias to others motivations and close the case and it's a stone rolling downhill from there.

I've experienced this with SFJs, almost inevitably e6 types too... There is a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect where their smear campaign and general crappy treatment of you elicits a less than gracious attitude from you on occasion, so then they can say, "SEE, I told you about her!".

I usually have way less problems with NFJs, who have mostly been 2s & 4s & are fine as long as you constantly compliment them & let them win the metaphorical beauty pageant. I wonder what types your targeted friends were?

My suspicion is that people who are opposite or near opposite types often set off their (false) alarms more.

Almost all of the INxPs (well, the 4s or 5s) I know tend to, er, inspire this kind of paranoia with SJs, particular SFJs in a social sense and some STJs when it comes to rules/regulations (you get pegged a rebel to be squashed).

When you live you life with high levels of misunderstanding on a regular basis, then you do get forced to navigate it better, or you just go full hermit mode :doh: :D .
 

ChocolateMoose123

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I've experienced this with SFJs, almost inevitably e6 types too... There is a self-fulfilling prophecy aspect where their smear campaign and general crappy treatment of you elicits a less than gracious attitude from you on occasion, so then they can say, "SEE, I told you about her!".

I usually have way less problems with NFJs, who have mostly been 2s & 4s & are fine as long as you constantly compliment them & let them win the metaphorical beauty pageant. I wonder what types your targeted friends were?

My suspicion is that people who are opposite or near opposite types often set off their (false) alarms more.

Almost all of the INxPs (well, the 4s or 5s) I know tend to, er, inspire this kind of paranoia with SJs, particular SFJs in a social sense and some STJs when it comes to rules/regulations (you get pegged a rebel to be squashed).

When you live you life with high levels of misunderstanding on a regular basis, then you do get forced to navigate it better, or you just go full hermit mode :doh: :D .

The ENFJ targeted quite a lot through the years! LOL but this M.O. stuck with my ISTP friend (E9) Our mutual friends knew the truth of the matter. I think it's why the ISTP didn't defend himself, really. In doing so, he would have had to throw a lot of others under the bus for the truth to come out and in doing so would have broken some confidences. . He was protecting the trust of some other friends and the ENFJ assumed information he wasn't privy to very incorrectly. It was the peanut gallery that the ENFJ successfully manipulated, not those that knew the players involved. Even though my friend didn't lose his friends, he did lose acquaintances that were turned against him and those acquaintances talked a whole lot of sh*t.
 

Z Buck McFate

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I'm going to post my two cents before reading any answers, because I always find it interesting to compare- and posting first is the best way of knowing what opinion I had before I read others. Basically, this is a disclaimer for if I happen to repeat what already been said.

Question: How do you know you are right?

In regard to incidents which evoke some kind of emotional charge in me: while I'm aware that sometimes my tone- which can get emphatic if there's a strong emotional charge involved- might inadvertently indicate certainty, I only actually ever feel like I know something if it still appears to be true after the emotional charge has faded. As long as there's still any emotional charge though, I'll have doubt, because there is a tendency in people (which I'm no exception to) to ameliorate unpleasant emotion with a narrative that externalizes blame/shame. Even where the unpleasant emotion is indeed because someone else has crossing some kind of line, in regard to power dynamics between people- it's only after the emotional charge has passed that I'll get any solid feeling of knowing.

Ultimately, 'knowing' is just a feeling- it isn't a black-and-white, "either I know or I don't" kind of thing- and I feel it inversely proportionate to the kind of emotional charge that would otherwise drive any kind of narrative. The less attachment I feel to a suspicion being 'true', the more I can trust that it is. (And less attachment to it being true means it's that much more open to change with new different information.)

Like how do you know that Susan secretly hates Barbra? How do you know whether someone has bad intention? Are you able to catch when you are wrong. What is the line between trusting your people intuition (not necessarily mbti intuition), and trusting what someone else says about them self?

At this point in my life (46 years old), on account of getting burned by not trusting my gut (because I couldn't effectively put my reticence into words), I always trust my gut when it tells me a certain situation or interaction with certain people isn't right for me. I'm more skeptical of the first narratives that come to mind about it (because it's just not possible for one person to see all the possible ends for others), but I've also learned that 'gut' feelings are always there for a reason.

If someone tells me something about themselves (for example, stating what their intentions are) and my 'gut' feeling thinks something doesn't quite add up about it, then it's not available for me to believe them (to take note that my senses are telling me something other than what they're declaring and reserve judgment: yes, but to actively believe what they're saying in spite of all my own sensibilities: no). I rarely get confrontational, but I'll just kind of catalog the (fleeting) observation that what they're saying doesn't match my own sensibilities. If they are a constant part of my environment, either something will eventually fall into my purview to make sense of why I was mistaken, or enough of these kind of incidents will happen that I'll feel inclined to avoid interaction with them. But I think it's actually unreasonable to state something about ourselves and to need others to believe it/reflect back affirmation. It's one thing if I've already gotten close to someone, it's kind of already been established (by their behavior as much as by what they say) that honesty is a priority, and- as someone close to them- they need me to remind them of how honest they are (by already having proven it) when they are feeling low. But if someone is trying to establish their character with me by dictating what I should believe about them, and/or (even worse) incessantly explaining to me how my perception is wrong if I don't see them as they want to be seen, I'm going to end up distancing that person as much as I can.

As far as the specifics of 'why'/filling in blanks about 'reading' others- if it's something that bothers me to distraction, which usually means it appears to me there's some distortion of power dynamics going on and either I feel taken for granted or I see someone else getting taken for granted (exploited in some way), then I'll ask the opinion of someone else whose judgment I trust. The possibility that I've asked someone so like-minded that we simply came to the same conclusion because we have the same baggage is always a factor; at the same time, I have had too many experiences of asking people who think differently, getting told it's nothing, and then having it ultimately collapse back in on me, to attempt to ignore a gut feeling altogether. There is ALWAYS a reason for the gut feeling. At any rate, if I have a gut feeling that I should establish some kind of boundary, then I establish it. Another person's opinion, even if they think so much like me that it doesn't make me especially confident of the way we filled in the blanks, will usually at least help me make a more specific boundary; if the boundary has to be completely nonspecific because I didn't have anyone to bounce the situation off of to get an opinion, then the gut feeling eventually lead me to a total avoidance of the person. In other words, I seek the best external judgment available to bounce my gut feeling off of, and if there isn't one available then I go with the gut feeling and avoid someone/something altogether.

Things that reinforce my feeling of knowing in regard to the 'whys': when someone else bounces reality off me, unsolicited, and states the same 'why' I suspected myself before I even say anything; the extent to which the other person's judgment (whom I am bouncing reality off of) has garnered my respect; and/or the extent to which they think differently than I do, yet I still respect their judgment (iow: if they think differently and see the same 'why', that strengthens the feeling of knowing); and again, more than anything, if the 'why' still appears to be the case after the emotional charge has completely passed.

Also, I don't like the phrase 'bad intentions' because it implies the person is aware their approach to others is exploitative or controlling (or whatever specific way in which someone's approach to interaction is on the dominating side of the power dynamic). Most people who exploit the kindness or naivete (or whatever) of others aren't aware they're doing it- it isn't done to exploit, per se, it's done to compensate for their own inability to effectively regulate their own emotions and they're typically blind to it. To them, it's just a sort of fuel that everyone gets from interacting with others, as if interaction inherently provides everyone with that kind emotional regulation, oblivious to the fact that they are actually siphoning internal resources off of other people. It isn't 'bad intentions' so much as human frailty.


Why should I believe that you are good at reading people?

I don't think anyone, ever, should believe another person is good at reading people simply because they say it is true. It's like when someone claims to be self-aware. These kinds of skills are self evident. I mean, it's one thing to say it I guess (though you're doing yourself no favors if it isn't completely 100% true, because other people can tell and you'll be establishing a lack in self-awareness if your skills don't pass muster), but it's another thing to need others to believe it because you're saying it. The latter is kinda messed up.

Where another person is applying any kind of coercion/pressure whatsoever to convince another person they are good at reading people- for example, "it's hurtful that you don't believe it," and/or they threaten to sever a connection that otherwise feels good unless they start getting affirmation that it's true, and/or there's any kind of passive aggressive retaliation for not affirming it, or any other type of emotional coercion- I think it's always safe to assume it's more about that person's ego than it is about them actually being good at reading people.

This kind of thing just is self evident.
 

Poki

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The ENFJ targeted quite a lot through the years! LOL but this M.O. stuck with my ISTP friend (E9) Our mutual friends knew the truth of the matter. I think it's why the ISTP didn't defend himself, really. In doing so, he would have had to throw a lot of others under the bus for the truth to come out and in doing so would have broken some confidences. . He was protecting the trust of some other friends and the ENFJ assumed information he wasn't privy to very incorrectly. It was the peanut gallery that the ENFJ successfully manipulated, not those that knew the players involved. Even though my friend didn't lose his friends, he did lose acquaintances that were turned against him and those acquaintances talked a whole lot of sh*t.

The ones worth keeping are the ones who stick around :newwink: let the other person have the shit.
 

Bush

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I'm alright at it

It's kind of like any sort of intuitive (not in the JCF sense) insight: trust, but verify. I wouldn't want to act brashly on what might be shitty assumptions. It'd be like using your second turn in Clue to guess the killer, weapon, and room. 9 of 10 times, you'd fuck up and get thrown out of the game entirely.

After enough time, experience, and practice, you might be able to act pretty quickly and correctly, but.. you know, assumptions.
 
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