The Difference Between Psychopath and Sociopath + A Sociopath claims he is "gifted"

[Mechnick]

The Difference Between Psychopath and Sociopath + A Sociopath claims he is "gifted"

Psychopathy is inborn, sociopathy developed as traumatisation reflex, and defence mechanism.



A sociopath claims, ‘We are the uniquely gifted’ : Lovefraud.com – sociopaths, psychopaths, antisocials, con artists, bigamists

Deluded idiot

"What the experts call superficial charm, I call having a natural ability to win friends and influence people. What experts call manipulative and conning, I call an affinity for persuasion based upon an innate ability to pinpoint others personality strengths and weaknesses. What the experts decry as a lack of compassion, I call pragmatism and clarity."



The Difference Between a Sociopath and a Psychopath - Examined Existence


Psychopath

"Nature (genetics) is said to be one of the strongest predisposing factors of psychopathy. According to David Lykken, a behavioral geneticist, psychopaths feature brains with physiological defects. Based on his studies, the part responsible for emotion and impulse control is underdeveloped in psychopaths."



Sociopath:

"The symptoms of sociopaths arise from sociological aspects that have affected them negatively when they were young. These factors include poverty, aberrant peers, parental neglect, to name a few. To wit, nurture or environment contributes to a person’s sociopathic behavior."

 

[Mechnick]

Functional Sociopath

Lisbeth Salander from "The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo"



Functional Sociopath

Sherlock Holmes



Borderline Sociopath

Dr. House


Psychopath

The Jackal, Carlos


Psychopath

Hans Gruber (Alan Rickman), Die Hard, 1987

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

These two terms have a complex history, and to some extent sociopathy is the term that replaced the diagnostic criteria for psychopath, from what I understand. I do know the two terms have a complex history and that based on the research of psychologist James Fallon who found similarities among brain scans done on inmates diagnosed with sociopathy. From his research, he suggests that there are three genetic components that when combined with childhood trauma, produces the sociopath.

I'll look for the links and post them to add to the discussion.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

I guess they are starting to delineate that genetic difference in the two terms, but there is a lot of former articles where they are used interchangeably, so perhaps this distilling process you describe is settling into the official terms?

Differences Between a Psychopath vs Sociopath | World of Psychology

I formerly found and posted a really great link that breaks down three different genetic components to, what is apparently being reserved for the psychopathy definition. I double I'll ever find that old post now though and the link isn't coming up in my google searches. It is good to make the distinction between having a genetic component and having purely environmental influences.

 

[Mechnick]

These two terms have a complex history, and to some extent sociopathy is the term that replaced the diagnostic criteria for psychopath, from what I understand. I do know the two terms have a complex history and that based on the research of psychologist James Fallon who found similarities among brain scans done on inmates diagnosed with sociopathy. From his research, he suggests that there are three genetic components that when combined with childhood trauma, produces the sociopath.

I'll look for the links and post them to add to the discussion.

Ok, you can post it.

Nice description

From what I understand, if you are traumatized you can become a sociopath. It depends on the severity of trauma.
Coping mechanisms depends on the level of sociopathy. If you are fucked up you cant cope, if you are mildly disturbed as a child you can, if you are little teased you can cope well. Sociopathy is reversible. You can turn into a 'normal' person

Psychopathy is irreversible. It s a brain damage. It cant be treated.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Found it!

A Neuroscientist Uncovers A Dark Secret : NPR

Dr. James Fallon (summarized)
1. "Fallon says the orbital cortex puts a brake on another part of the brain called the amygdala, which is involved with aggression and appetites. But in some people, there's an imbalance — the orbital cortex isn't doing its job — perhaps because the person had a brain injury or was born that way.

2. He looked at 12 genes related to aggression and violence and zeroed in on the MAO-A gene (monoamine oxidase A). This gene, which has been the target of considerable research, is also known as the "warrior gene" because it regulates serotonin in the brain. Serotonin affects your mood — think Prozac — and many scientists believe that if you have a certain version of the warrior gene, your brain won't respond to the calming effects of serotonin.

3. Diane (Fallon's wife) probably does not need to worry, according to scientists who study this area. They believe that brain patterns and genetic makeup are not enough to make anyone a psychopath. You need a third ingredient: abuse or violence in one's childhood.
The third ingredient is violence in childhood because the formal definition of psychopathy/sociopathy involves violent behaviors."

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Ok, I d like you to post

Nice description

From what I understand, if you are traumatized you can become a sociopath. It depends on the severity of the trauma.

It's good to have that distinction, but for some reason I've been presented with the terms interchangeably. Perhaps what is being called "secondary psychopathy" category that includes sociopaths is where the confusion is happening. There are a lot of people who lean in the direction of anti-social personality disorders, but there is still a difference between people who lean in the direction and full-blown versions of these disorders. Perhaps 'sociopathy' is now a term used to define behaviors that lean in that direction, but might not be based on having zero remorse and empathy.

 

[Amargith]

Do they have a treatment for this these days?

If it is caused by violence, can therapy help close those gaps and heal those wounds? I take it that if the trauma led to destructive but self-rewarding behaviour it would be almost impossible, but technically, one could recover from those wounds like a 'non-warrior' person does.

...granted, providing the connection and social support one typically needs for that is going to be hard with people that are real risk to others.

 

[Mechnick]

It's good to have that distinction, but for some reason I've been presented with the terms interchangeably. Perhaps what is being called "secondary psychopathy" category that includes sociopaths is where the confusion is happening. There are a lot of people who lean in the direction of anti-social personality disorders, but there is still a difference between people who lean in the direction and full-blown versions of these disorders. Perhaps 'sociopathy' is now a term used to define behaviors that lean in that direction, but might not be based on having zero remorse and empathy.

Yes, it can be. Leanin toward anti-social behaviors. But, for some reason I imagine sociopathy as something you can bent, but it can bounce back to its previous state, depending on resilience; it can be broken, but it can be fixed. If its totally broken, then the damage is irreversible. I imagine a stick and its elasticity.

With psychopathy I imagine something like inborn brain damage.

In fact,

 

[Mechnick]

[MENTION=10604]Labyrinth[/MENTION]e

2. He looked at 12 genes related to aggression and violence and zeroed in on the MAO-A gene (monoamine oxidase A). This gene, which has been the target of considerable research, is also known as the "warrior gene" because it regulates serotonin in the brain. Serotonin affects your mood — think Prozac — and many scientists believe that if you have a certain version of the warrior gene, your brain won't respond to the calming effects of serotonin.

This is interesting.

3. Diane (Fallon's wife) probably does not need to worry, according to scientists who study this area. They believe that brain patterns and genetic makeup are not enough to make anyone a psychopath. You need a third ingredient: abuse or violence in one's childhood.
The third ingredient is violence in childhood because the formal definition of psychopathy/sociopathy involves violent behaviors."

I dont believe.

I think it's inborn. There are some inborn pathologies.

 

[Mechnick]

Do they have a treatment for this these days?

If it is caused by violence, can therapy help close those gaps and heal those wounds? I take it that if the trauma led to destructive but self-rewarding behaviour it would be almost impossible, but technically, one could recover from those wounds like a 'non-warrior' person does.

...granted, providing the connection and social support one typically needs for that is going to be hard with people that are real risk to others.

It can help but it depends on person's resilience, will to rebound, enviromental support, pharmachology-therapy, level of trauma, mere luck, and many other factors

 

[Amargith]

It can help but it depends on person's resilience, will to rebound, enviromental support, pharmachology-therapy, level of trauma, mere luck, and many other factors

Oh sure, but that's no different from other animals/humans without that gene.

 

[PumpkinMayCare]

A lot of studies show that therapy doesn't help those with psychopathy, they just learn how to imitate feelings better, thus making them better at manipulating people. Google it and you'll get tons of information about that. Also there's a good documentary about a prison for psychopathic/sociopathic criminals, and they work therapeutically with their prisoners for years but without any real results... wish I would know how that documentary was called. (I would love to give out the names of some good psychology books but they're all German ... sorry).
That's no new info though.

When it comes to the difference between sociopathy and psychopathy, experts and psychologists world wide still debate whether it's the same or something different. We just know it all regards to the cluster B for personality disorders, which inhibits narcissism (NPD) as well.
It's just like with narcissists, there are some experts who still believe telling them how empathy works will make them see their ways but there are tons of books dealing with abuse stories and tons of people tried different forms of treatment with their dear narcissists with leading to no effective results whatsoever. Not only them but enough psychologists themselves experienced the ineffectiveness of therapy through studies and research. At worst the narcissist will manipulate the therapist to his advantage or he learns more about the fears of their partners or whoever else their target is and how to show real emotions which just gives them even more power.
Conclusion: Experts still fight about what the best treatment for psychopathy/sociopathy/and narcissism is.

Although antisocial behaviour is linked with sociopathy/psychopathy, antisocial behaviour is, you could say, a mild version of it and is more often diagnosed in kids/teenagers, not so often in adults. If there is antisocial behaviour displayed in a child, there are still to this day only a few things that can be done about it - we're far from a cure. It's more a warning sign that this child/teenager may become a sociopath/psychopath later on in life (as studies have shown that's an often walked path for antisocial teenagers), that's why there's a diagnosis happening in the first place. Most of the time psychologists refuse to diagnose teenagers because their brains are still developing. Meaning a diagnosis at that age happening is kind of a rarity but useful because teenagers are easier to influence and put into the right path than adults, thus making a diagnosis despite that age and connected stigma "helpful". There are currently a few experts trying out medication treatment for those suffering from psychopathy/sociopathy, as less and less psychologists believe that psychopathy/sociopathy stems from childhood trauma, rather it's an irreversible brain damage, where the part of the brain, where empathy impulses are send off, is underdeveloped, therefore making cognitive behavioral therapy and other similar treatments useless or even worsen the situation.
I'm studying psychology, it's my fifth semester.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Oh sure, but that's no different from other animals/humans without that gene.

The current idea is that psychopathy cannot be cured. Psychopathic Criminals Cannot Be Cured | Psychology Today

As a strange side-note that can't be verified entirely in this discussion, I do know of three children of a psychopath (a calm, analytical killer, etc), who could likely have the genetic markers for it, but all three of the children raised away from him show inverse personality traits of being high in empathy. It would be interesting to find out if that is because none of the three inherited the traits or if there is a way genetics can produce the inverse of it with overproduction of certain neuro-chemicals and anomalies in the amygdala. Or if he was environmentally driven to it - although of the people I've heard of, he is a more extreme example. However, he was left alone in the dark for extended periods as an infant without comforting, so there is evidence of an environmental trigger as well. It's just an oddity to throw into the discussion. I seriously doubt any papers have been written on that subject.

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

^I added a quick edit after you clicked on it

 

[Amargith]

The current idea is that psychopathy cannot be cured. Psychopathic Criminals Cannot Be Cured | Psychology Today

As a strange side-note that can't be verified entirely in this discussion, I do know of three children of a psychopath (a calm, analytical killer, etc), who could likely have the genetic markers for it, but all three of the children raised away from him show inverse personality traits of being high in empathy. It would be interesting to find out if that is because none of the three inherited the traits or if there is a way genetics can produce the inverse of it with overproduction of certain neuro-chemicals and anomalies in the amygdala. Or if he was environmentally driven to it - although of the people I've heard of, he is a more extreme example. However, he was left alone in the dark for extended periods as an infant without comforting, so there is evidence of an environmental trigger as well. It's just an oddity to throw into the discussion. I seriously doubt any papers have been written on that subject.

Interesting. The link you provided highlights punishment as ineffective, as is social stigmatisation. I cannot help but wonder if our automatic resorting to *that* for rehabilitation has something to do with it being considered 'incurable' at present, since so much of our laws and social code is based on that. It's how our society works, for now...and it seems to be incompatible with the wiring of these individuals.

In comparison, animal trainers are finding that positive reward training is way more effective and more forgiving of training mistakes than punishment, therefore yielding both better results and a safer therapy for both owner and pet. Punishment is often easier to resort to in the moment, especially if you're mad at the animal, but often produces significant backlash when improperly administered, extra unintended trauma to deal with, and..yes, due to all of this, is a lot less effective and desirable. Animals are *wired* for seeking out pleasure and rewards. It just takes more thinking things through and setting things up to make these rewards part of the training, whereas punishment...well, is easy to execute and doesn't require a whole lot of imagination, so it tends to be the go to for many. This was especially true in the past, and has significantly shifted in the last few years to favour the reward system.

Meanwhile, cats in particular, could care less about social stigmatisation, since they don't adhere to a traditional hierarchy the way that human and other pack animals like dogs do. And to be honest...I think you'll find many an Fi-user that will agree with that - I know I do

When your survival isn't dependent to anyone else, so you don't *really* need anyone else, safe for bonding purposes...why should you recognise anyone else's authority?

It'll be interesting to see where this stuff goes in the future - both in the human field and the animal one.

In reference to your 'case study': I do agree that it would be fascinating to find just how much of this is triggered by nature and how much by nurture and to really hammer down the 'switch' as such. It could mean a great deal to our society, our prison system and for that matter, their own well-being and ability to cope and rehabilitate, if we could solve that puzzle.

 

[Mechnick]

Oh sure, but that's no different from other animals/humans without that gene.

Oh, you mean the treatmen for types with warrior gene. I d rather call it predators. There are good warriors out there. Lets say the fireman who saves people from fire. Soldier who saves friends' life.

There is no treatment for psychophats. Only isolation and force.

 

[Peter Deadpan]

Hmmm, this is a can of worms.

People in general have poor understanding of functional sociopathy. A lot of insensitive misinformation out there.

 

[Mechnick]

Hmmm, this is a can of worms.

People in general have poor understanding of functional sociopathy. A lot of insensitive misinformation out there.

Ok, explain functional sociopathy.

What exactly do you find to be a can of worms?

 

[Siúil a Rúin]

Hmmm, this is a can of worms.

People in general have poor understanding of functional sociopathy. A lot of insensitive misinformation out there.

How do you define "functional sociopathy" and how does it compare with something like Aspberger's Syndrome? Or various placement of high functioning on the autism spectrum because those individuals are/can-be low empathy and highly individualistic as well, but there is not a connection with directly anti-social behaviors or "superficial charm" and skill at navigating social environments like sociopathy has based on most definitions.

Edit: I actually do know a few people who are high functioning autistic/Aspbergers with empathy, so even that category is diverse as a spectrum disorder.